I currently play WoW.  I USED to be fairly hard core about the whole "Raiding" thing.  10 day into TBC I was 70.  I quit my Alliance Mage (family reasons, the wife and sisinlaw love Horde) I had been through Kara, Gruuls and we were working on SSC when I quit.  (Just kinda giving you guys a "where I am coming from story" ) So anyhoots, I'm now about to hit 70 again and realized....

ZOMG I'm a "Casual" player.  I don't do many instances, I have about ZERO desire to do end game raiding and with WAR on the horizon.. why waste time PVPing?  I just run with the wife and sisnlaw as their walk fireballer.

THAT all being said, will WAR finally kill off the "Casual" label as a derragatory term?  Will we finally not have to worry about elitist pricks complaining that "your gear isn't good enough" and a dev team that seems to think you MUST spend hours at a time with 25 people you probably would rather not jsut to progress and see content?

I for one really hope so.  Of course, every game will have it's "We're better then you" angle.   EQ was the Carebear Vs. the PVPers.

WoW it's the "Casual Vs. Raiders".

I wonder what WAR will bring?   But if they can kill the damn "Casual" tag I'll be more then content with the 140 I have so far paid for it.

there will always be a casual player        and hardcore players will always be better (in most cases with gear not always in skill)  however WAR will just fade the line between the two..which is a great thing....but we will see what happens after release

Ahh yes, another reason why I left "That Game".

I would be out hunting tough mobs, and someone would run up and say "We would help you, but your gear sucks"

Just tell them this..

Pay me 15 bucks a month and I'll wear ponytails and whatever other gear you want, untill then, eat S**t, hump a tree and howl at the moon.

needalife basically hit your post out of the park, I would have said just about the same thing. WAR is going to allow ALL players to get what they need and want, just may be dependent on how long it will take. TIME will be the only difference, for the majority, we will see however how the public quests work at higher levels.

thats like when people asked you for your spec, then TOLD you to change it

NO..I pay my money i can do what i want

WAR will start blurring the line and give people more of a fair playing field with out giving the Hardcore players to much of an advantage while not leaving them bored after a month or two

My gear isn't good enough? Oh really, BTW who the hell are you,  why are you talking to me and why should I care what you think?

I have to admit, I'm getting drawn towards WAR.  I never got to play the original version because at that time in my life I was playing GURPS, Twilight 2000, and Teenagers From Outer Space...

Oh God I'm really that old... but I digress...

I'm more of a sci-fi type, but if the game is good, I'll play it. I played DAoC for quite a while and really enjoyed it.  I'm not looking for DAoC2 but if the setup is similar, I'll give it a try.

Forget the gear, forget the specs. If your having fun, who cares what the rest think.

Unfortunately, I don’t believe WAR will eliminate the need to ruin ones “real life” to be the ultimate “Have” over the rest of the “Have-nots.”  

As long as developers continue to make time spent camping in front of your PC the real determining factor to what advantage, you have, over others (that don’t play 24/7), “casual” will still mean “MMORPG-peasant.”

Working and slaving away in real life is where you “earn” your economic/power status, not in a game-world… when will the developers realize this?  MMO’s are going to stay second class citizens to Televised programming until developers realize this.   Only 1% of the population is filthy rich to the point that they can play games all day, so where do developers think the folks earning/paying fees for games/gaming-rigs are earning these dollars, if they are expected to be online, in their game-world all day long? 

Originally posted by MrVicchio

 Will we finally not have to worry about elitist pricks complaining that "your gear isn't good enough"

Don't hate the player, Hate the game.

Originally posted by Crazybear

Unfortunately, I don’t believe WAR will eliminate the need to ruin ones “real life” to be the ultimate “Have” over the rest of the “Have-nots.”  

As long as developers continue to make time spent camping in front of your PC the real determining factor to what advantage, you have, over others (that don’t play 24/7), “casual” will still mean “MMORPG-peasant.”

Working and slaving away in real life is where you “earn” your economic/power status, not in a game-world… when will the developers realize this?  MMO’s are going to stay second class citizens to Televised programming until developers realize this.   Only 1% of the population is filthy rich to the point that they can play games all day, so where do developers think the folks earning/paying fees for games/gaming-rigs are earning these dollars, if they are expected to be online, in their game-world all day long? 

How can you find the perfect balance? You make a game that requires no gear advantages. The gear doesn't even have stats, it's just for show. You make it PvE with a strong PvP focus. That way it's based on "skill" and everyone is equal. Sounds simple, right? Until you have people complaining that it's too shallow. Too empty. It has no story, it has no depth. It's not an MMORPG; it's an MMO. Now, if a company wants to do this, I'd play it but only for an hour or so before it gets boring. Maybe as a stress reliever. It doesn't bring the big bucks in the long run because there's no long-term goals. And what do companies care about? $$$

Originally posted by Reiketsu
...

Just tell them this..

Pay me 15 bucks a month and I'll wear ponytails and whatever other gear you want, untill then, eat S**t, hump a tree and howl at the moon.

Originally posted by Ascension08

Originally posted by Crazybear

Unfortunately, I don’t believe WAR will eliminate the need to ruin ones “real life” to be the ultimate “Have” over the rest of the “Have-nots.”  

As long as developers continue to make time spent camping in front of your PC the real determining factor to what advantage, you have, over others (that don’t play 24/7), “casual” will still mean “MMORPG-peasant.”

Working and slaving away in real life is where you “earn” your economic/power status, not in a game-world… when will the developers realize this?  MMO’s are going to stay second class citizens to Televised programming until developers realize this.   Only 1% of the population is filthy rich to the point that they can play games all day, so where do developers think the folks earning/paying fees for games/gaming-rigs are earning these dollars, if they are expected to be online, in their game-world all day long? 

How can you find the perfect balance? You make a game that requires no gear advantages. The gear doesn't even have stats, it's just for show. You make it PvE with a strong PvP focus. That way it's based on "skill" and everyone is equal. Sounds simple, right? Until you have people complaining that it's too shallow. Too empty. It has no story, it has no depth. It's not an MMORPG; it's an MMO. Now, if a company wants to do this, I'd play it but only for an hour or so before it gets boring. Maybe as a stress reliever. It doesn't bring the big bucks in the long run because there's no long-term goals. And what do companies care about? $$$

thats was my fury experience    except i had loads of fun for the hour i did play...and it doesn't have PVE

Originally posted by Ascension08

Originally posted by Crazybear

Unfortunately, I don’t believe WAR will eliminate the need to ruin ones “real life” to be the ultimate “Have” over the rest of the “Have-nots.”  

As long as developers continue to make time spent camping in front of your PC the real determining factor to what advantage, you have, over others (that don’t play 24/7), “casual” will still mean “MMORPG-peasant.”

Working and slaving away in real life is where you “earn” your economic/power status, not in a game-world… when will the developers realize this?  MMO’s are going to stay second class citizens to Televised programming until developers realize this.   Only 1% of the population is filthy rich to the point that they can play games all day, so where do developers think the folks earning/paying fees for games/gaming-rigs are earning these dollars, if they are expected to be online, in their game-world all day long? 

How can you find the perfect balance? You make a game that requires no gear advantages. The gear doesn't even have stats, it's just for show. You make it PvE with a strong PvP focus. That way it's based on "skill" and everyone is equal. Sounds simple, right? Until you have people complaining that it's too shallow. Too empty. It has no story, it has no depth. It's not an MMORPG; it's an MMO. Now, if a company wants to do this, I'd play it but only for an hour or so before it gets boring. Maybe as a stress reliever. It doesn't bring the big bucks in the long run because there's no long-term goals. And what do companies care about? $$$

You talking about Guild Wars right? And we know what a colossal fail that game was... /sarcasm off

You don't need to motivate players with individual power, and especially not uber gear. A game can have plenty of depth in other areas.

And why do you think that no leet gear progression = no story or long term progression? You make no sense whatsoever.

There should be a gab between causuals and elite gamers. But a natural one there can be overcomed with a fair amount of effort and skill.

The whole gab between Casuals and elite players multiply when a game resort to using instances. Because no matter if its PvE or PvP the price a team pay to let in a causual with less gear, skill or gameexperience is an increased chance to fail. And this create a gab that is very difficult to overcome.

In Guild Wars they have maybe the biggest (endgame) gab in any game atm. Simply because the PvP instance game is so skilled based, that the learning curve for a causual player is way to big. And that is for a game there after very few hours of play have no difference in equipment and in game abillity advantage between a causual and a hardcore player. 

Closing that gab is something developers wants to correct in GW2. 

WOW also have an endgame based on instance. The gab is huge between causual and Hardcore. But it reflect to some degree well the time (or knowledge) invested in playing the game. But not the skill a player have. Equipment serves as a measure of the progress (level 70+) a player have, and where in the game he belongs.

As soon as we are away from an instance based endgame, then the gab lessend alot. because every thing that happend in a persistant world ,any causual player  can come along and take part in. And make a difference too.

With more ingame progress, eksperience or equipment he could make a bigg