I'm kind of disappointed with the news on the Chaos Characters. Their very Tzeenth-y, so much to the point where is you're a fan of any of the other Chaos gods, you might be better off playing a corrupt non-Chaos Faction. I guess I was expected something more like Chaos Undivided(Black Armor, Symbolism to Tzeenth being optional). I don't mind some sea creature print and some bird icons on my armor but so far the art is just over the top.

I'm also kind of disapointed with how villianious they're making them. IMO, that's the saving grace of Tzeenth. Slaanish followers are rappists and all kinds of philes, Khorne followers are mass murders, Nurgle followers wish to see everything in deseise and decay and that's why we love them. For Tzeenth death and pain are mostly a means to a greater end and that's what makes him different and likeable(IMO). They seem to have taken out the Butterfly Effect-y Elements where you do something and then fourty years later you go "Huh? So that's why Tzeenth made that bear grow a tentical" and replaced them with "RAWR! DEMONS! RAWR! EVIL! RAWR! CONQUEST!"

Lastly theirs the magic. Flying disks are cool and all(if you can't get nurglings in their stead) but I really prefer Nurgle's take on Magic to Tzeenth. I enjoy watchin g my enemy slowly fall to his knees, increasingly debuffed, as my patrod gives him a flue that makes his organ ooze out his eyes. My idea of a good damage spell is one that causes pox and tumors. I like spells that leave my enemy so mis-figured that passerbyes will look in horror and go "What IS that!?" I thought Tzeenth might have something like this, being the God of Change. I know one of the spells from the table top('Blue flame' I think it was called) forced the enmy to take some kind of dice roll test and if they failed, the turned into a Chaos Spawn. So far Tzeenth Wizards seem like they'll be Bright Wizards with different colors flames.

At this rate I'm going to join the Empire, just to play a rifleman, just to shoot high and mighty sorcerers off their disks.

Anyone else agree?

My first thoughts were similar to yours regarding those choas sorcerors. I thought "too similar to Empire Bright Wizzies". I would have rather seen as you have said, pox casters, debuffers, DoT masters and the like. All we can do is see where Mythic will take them. If they are just going to be Bright Wizards on flying discs I won't be playing this character.

---

Originally posted by Distortion0

At this rate I'm going to join the Empire, just to play a rifleman, just to shoot high and mighty sorcerers off their disks.

Anyone else agree?

---

Is rifleman a confirmed "class" option? Sounds pretty cool .

---

Originally posted by fansede

My first thoughts were similar to yours regarding those choas sorcerors. I thought "too similar to Empire Bright Wizzies". I would have rather seen as you have said, pox casters, debuffers, DoT masters and the like. All we can do is see where Mythic will take them. If they are just going to be Bright Wizards on flying discs I won't be playing this character.

---

Well, i think you guys might be over reacting a little bit. Like you said, we'll have to wait and see where they take them durring and after development. You have to remember that in DAoC they had somwhat similar classes on each of the 3 sides but they often had very different capabilities and playstyles.

There is also the chance that there may be a second caster class for chaos...one who may be the engines of disease, plague, and suffering your looking for .

*** Ohh! I forgot to mention...Even if they are the same as Bright Wizards they still have the Kick ass flying discs that the bright wizard doesn't. So who Would you rather be? The Bright wizard up in the Tower dodging the chunks of peasant being thrown his way --OR-- The menacing Chaos Sorcerer flying around the blood soaked field, on a bladded disc of death, tossing lighning bolts in the faces of your enemies. I dunno, I would have to go with the Disc of Death myself

---

Originally posted by Distortion0

 So far Tzeenth Wizards seem like they'll be Bright Wizards with different colors flames.

At this rate I'm going to join the Empire, just to play a rifleman, just to shoot high and mighty sorcerers off their disks.

Anyone else agree?

---

And thus the complaining begins anew. The Sorceror being "Bright Wizards with different color flames" is, at this point, a ridiculous comment to say the least. I really don't see where you're coming from with that. Are you basing that entire judgement on Paul's statement about them shooting lightning? "Oh no...Bright Wizards fire shoot fire...these guys shoot lightning...that means they both shoot stuff...how lame". Christ, have a little faith in Mythic. Every caster class needs some form of DPS. I have yet to see any pure caster class that did not have at least one DD spell. Utility to the two classes could be completely different, as I would expect it to be considering the way Mythic distributed skills among caster classes in DAOC so that no class was a mirror of another.

All we know about this class so far is that it has the ability to shoot lightning and has a flying disc that it rides on. Unless you seriously believe that this encompasses every ability to be associated with this class in the future, you really have nothing to complain about at this point. Hell, it was only announced a couple days ago. Wait until the skill sets are released. If you can then look at the two comparatively and say "this is just a copy of the other" you may then voice a valid complaint.

And call me a nooblet or whatever but I really don't see what's wrong with the warriors. I was also expecting more of a Chaos Undivided look to them as well, but I think they look amazing as-is so far. That being said, I also will be playing a dwarf, so my only real concern with Chaos classes will revolve around myself being tall enough to bash their knees in. 

Pardon the rant, but I just think it's a tad early for naysaying on this subject.

A mission where you have to kill Khorne(or his followers) works just as well for Tzen's Chaos, then for anyone else.  Nurgles can be put just as well, as the mortal enemy to Tzen...so they will prolly go low profile with Slaan, which is good, we don't need a 18+ rating...and since we are in a first person view, it would be lame to have a focus on something you can't show...so Slaan is better left out for a "teen" game.  I still hold to the basic alliances, so I don't mind seeing some Slaanesh on Tzen side, this is logical and perfectly acceptable...but Nurgles?  Nope.  Khorne?  You are kidding me if you say Khorne may even, remotedly, work with an evil spellcaster, the only reason the spellcaster is prolly not under attack is because Khorne is busy with Slaanesh new "organ" to fight off. 

I expect to see a LOT of stuff about Khorne...it will prolly just be...enemy's NPCs only!  Fine, I will have to kill it then! 

The Tzen's look is actually increasing my hypes about the game...I will never play as a Tzenish...but...against them?  With pleasure.

ATM I still hope to play a wood elf(punkish), since they took my Khornish option out and that the High Elfs mixing with humans is not something I buy for any moment.  If there are no wood elves...dunno, would have to double check the options, since my 3 favorite would be "greyed out".

I dont know why your getting all in a snit. Tzeentch was announced as being the sole chaos god a good while ago - you should have seen this coming. Personally in the TT game I have never been a chaos fan as I like a bit more variety in my armies. (Like something with a shooting phase)

---

I'm also kind of disapointed with how villianious they're making them

---

Umm news flash but Chaos IS EVIL. Dont give me the old - They are not evil why they are just misunderstood bs that some people like to think....

No I dont agree with anything you said actually - sorry mate

perhaps this is a conspiracy all plotted on making you hate Chaos, distoriont :P

but seriously they SAID they were making tzeentch THE GOD to worship.. why does this come as a big surprise? :o

---

Originally posted by sjona

but seriously they SAID they were making tzeentch THE GOD to worship.. why does this come as a big surprise? :o

---

---

Originally posted by callmetoby

---

Originally posted by Distortion0

 So far Tzeenth Wizards seem like they'll be Bright Wizards with different colors flames.

At this rate I'm going to join the Empire, just to play a rifleman, just to shoot high and mighty sorcerers off their disks.

Anyone else agree?

---

And thus the complaining begins anew. The Sorceror being "Bright Wizards with different color flames" is, at this point, a ridiculous comment to say the least. I really don't see where you're coming from with that. Are you basing that entire judgement on Paul's statement about them shooting lightning? "Oh no...Bright Wizards fire shoot fire...these guys shoot lightning...that means they both shoot stuff...how lame". Christ, have a little faith in Mythic. 

All we know about this class so far is that it has the ability to shoot lightning and has a flying disc that it rides on. Unless you seriously believe that this encompasses every ability to be associated with this class in the future, you really have nothing to complain about at this point.

And call me a nooblet or whatever but I really don't see what's wrong with the warriors.

Pardon the rant, but I just think it's a tad early for naysaying on this subject.

---

The problem is, all that were said about the Wizards is that they ride disks, shoot lightning and shoot flames. That was our preveiw and our first insight. What the hell? They pretty much said the same thing they did for bright wizards, exept putting less effort into it. Yeah, I should wait for more info but there's really no harm in complaining now. Maybe if a deccent bit fanbase said something, they'de change it while it's still in early development.

The problem with the Warriors is they're blue, and they're magicy and they icons are completely devoted to Tzeenth. The problem with that is it only caters to hard-core Tzeenth Fans. I'd rather see things that cater to the "unbrella of Tzeenth." Maybe people who do lean a little toward undevided, or do feel as they are straying away from Tzeenth, or did want to play as a follower of something else and couldn't. Basically I'd like it to be more flexable for Roleplay Reasons. It'd be as simple as being ale to change the armor color from Blue to Black, too.

Better early than late, I always thought.

---

I'm also kind of disapointed with how villianious they're making them

---

Umm news flash but Chaos IS EVIL. Dont give me the old - They are not evil why they are just misunderstood bs that some people like to think....

No I dont agree with anything you said actually - sorry mate

See, I always saw Tzeenth as the God of change. All change. Good or bad. This would include things like overthowing totalitarian goverments and the will to change your life from poor and missirable to to happy and rich. You really can't argue that these kind of things aren't change and that Tzeenth doesn't(by lore) represent them.

I always thought of Tzeenth Devotes as kind of artistic. "Wow, things are so boring! Wouldn't it be great if like a bunch of people suddently grew tenticals!? And that tree melted! And that dog exploded! WE NEED CHANGE!!!"

I mean like, he means well, he's just gone fantical. He's definitely not misunderstood, definitely violent and dangerious. But he's not a pointless, mindless slaughterer. Those are Khorne's followers.

---

 Originally posted by bigminu
long live the empire

---

As a corrupt body for Chaos Cults!

Interestingly enough - I have not seen an official change to the Warhammer Online website under the Chaos Armies section.

Maybe they are floating these ideas and nothing is etched in stone yet.

---

Originally posted by fansede

Interestingly enough - I have not seen an official change to the Warhammer Online website under the Chaos Armies section.

Maybe they are floating these ideas and nothing is etched in stone yet.

---

---

Originally posted by Distortion0

The problem is, all that were said about the Wizards is that they ride disks, shoot lightning and shoot flames. That was our preveiw and our first insight. What the hell? They pretty much said the same thing they did for bright wizards, exept putting less effort into it. Yeah, I should wait for more info but there's really no harm in complaining now. Maybe if a deccent bit fanbase said something, they'de change it while it's still in early development.

---

There's nothing to change. If a decent bit of fanbase said something at this point they'd most likely get prolonged sighs from the devs who would then tell them to wait until they release the actual class info before they make a complaint on a problem that doesn't exist. Right now your argument is a bit out in left field somewhere. For one thing, it was a short interview. He only had time to mention a bit about each one and he decided to mention the disk and the lightning. Deciding from those statements that it is just a copy of a Bright Wizard is ridiculous. You could have just as easily said "Chaos Warriors have armor and they kill stuff, they're just copies of Hammerers". That makes about as much sense. In WAR, one class will not be a copy of another class. Quoting Paul Barnett on the 24 classes coming to the game;

"If we're gonna have these characters, we've gotta decide; Are they gonna be cookie-cutter copies of each other? Are we really just gonna have four and then just replicate them and call them different names? Well, we could do that. Certainly you might produce a very popular game if you did that...but Mark Jacobs wouldn't let us. And Games Workshop wouldn't let us. And our designers wouldn't let us. And our designers didn't want to let us. And there are probably a number of other people...but the point is 24; They all have to be different, they all have to be exciting."

Character descriptions will be up on the site soon enough. Try to keep a lid on any absurd judgements until then.

And I really have nothing to say regarding peoples' clamor and despair as to their disappointment regarding the Warriors' armor aside from this:

Christ I hate RPers.

Why the chaos art looks as it does:

1: It's frikking Tzeench! Why would you expect anythging other than it looking Tzeenchian?

2: WAR is all about Iconic looks. Barnett constantly throws this word around and it shows in the game. Hammerers aren't just "some dwarf warrior", he's a Hammerer, he uses a HAMMER to HAMMER stuff. The Bright Wizard isn't just "some wizard", he's a BRIGHT Wizard. The Warrior Priest isn't just "a priest of some god", he's a Warrior Priest of SIGMAR.

And the Chosen of Tzeench aren't just "warriors of chaos", they're chosen of TZEENCH.

3: You're going to be meeting and interacting with (or maybe just fighting ;)) the other chaos gods followers. For that to make any kind of sense to outsiders, you have to really see the difference between them. Chosen of Tzeench and Chosen of Khorne need to look so different that it's obvious that they're two different factions.

4: Trying to pretend to be a follower of some other god when you're in the Tzeenchian army and fighting against the other chaos gods is just lame. Just accept it, you're Tzeenchian. If you don't want to play Tzeench, don't choose the Tzeench faction. Trying to make him into Khorn berserker or anything like that isn't much better than trying to RP your elf as actually beign a tall, beardless dwarf.  

---

Originally posted by Distortion0

I'm kind of disappointed with the news on the Chaos Characters. Their very Tzeenth-y, so much to the point where is you're a fan of any of the other Chaos gods, you might be better off playing a corrupt non-Chaos Faction. I guess I was expected something more like Chaos Undivided(Black Armor, Symbolism to Tzeenth being optional). I don't mind some sea creature print and some bird icons on my armor but so far the art is just over the top.

I'm also kind of disapointed with how villianious they're making them. IMO, that's the saving grace of Tzeenth. Slaanish followers are rappists and all kinds of philes, Khorne followers are mass murders, Nurgle followers wish to see everything in deseise and decay and that's why we love them. For Tzeenth death and pain are mostly a means to a greater end and that's what makes him different and likeable(IMO). They seem to have taken out the Butterfly Effect-y Elements where you do something and then fourty years later you go "Huh? So that's why Tzeenth made that bear grow a tentical" and replaced them with "RAWR! DEMONS! RAWR! EVIL! RAWR! CONQUEST!"

Lastly theirs the magic. Flying disks are cool and all(if you can't get nurglings in their stead) but I really prefer Nurgle's take on Magic to Tzeenth. I enjoy watchin g my enemy slowly fall to his knees, increasingly debuffed, as my patrod gives him a flue that makes his organ ooze out his eyes. My idea of a good damage spell is one that causes pox and tumors. I like spells that leave my enemy so mis-figured that passerbyes will look in horror and go "What IS that!?" I thought Tzeenth might have something like this, being the God of Change. I know one of the spells from the table top('Blue flame' I think it was called) forced the enmy to take some kind of dice roll test and if they failed, the turned into a Chaos Spawn. So far Tzeenth Wizards seem like they'll be Bright Wizards with different colors flames.

At this rate I'm going to join the Empire, just to play a rifleman, just to shoot high and mighty sorcerers off their disks.

Anyone else agree?

---

---

Originally posted by Swordman

Why the chaos art looks as it does:

 

1: It's frikking Tzeench! Why would you expect anythging other than it looking Tzeenchian?

2: WAR is all about Iconic looks. Barnett constantly throws this word around and it shows in the game. Hammerers aren't just "some dwarf warrior", he's a Hammerer, he uses a HAMMER to HAMMER stuff. The Bright Wizard isn't just "some wizard", he's a BRIGHT Wizard. The Warrior Priest isn't just "a priest of some god", he's a Warrior Priest of SIGMAR.

And the Chosen of Tzeench aren't just "warriors of chaos", they're chosen of TZEENCH.

3: You're going to be meeting and interacting with (or maybe just fighting ;)) the other chaos gods followers. For that to make any kind of sense to outsiders, you have to really see the difference between them. Chosen of Tzeench and Chosen of Khorne need to look so different that it's obvious that they're two different factions.

4: Trying to pretend to be a follower of some other god when you're in the Tzeenchian army and fighting against the other chaos gods is just lame. Just accept it, you're Tzeenchian. If you don't want to play Tzeench, don't choose the Tzeench faction. Trying to make him into Khorn berserker or anything like that isn't much better than trying to RP your elf as actually beign a tall, beardless dwarf.  

---

Good post! I'll just have to ditto all that.

There are great reasons why it's Tzeentch. Paul Barnett mentions them: If Khorne there'd only be 1 class, Nurgle is way too disgusting for most, and Slaanesh they can't do with a T rating. Undivided would make Chaos too shallow, generic and watered out IMO, considering they can only have 4 classes.