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BioWare Mythic
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Cancelled  (est.rel 09/18/08)  | Pub:Electronic Arts
PVP:Yes | Distribution:Download,Retail | Retail Price:$39.99 | Pay Type:Subscription
System Req: PC Mac | ESRB:TOut of date info? Let us know!

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78 posts found
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/20/13 2:49:14 PM#61
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi

From what I played at launch and what I've just played now, they game seem a little better.

 

I'm curious from this community, do think it was Mark Jacobs failure as lead designer that crumbled the game ?

 

[mod edit - title changed]

Marc Jacobs wasnt the project lead, Jeff Hickman was (hes now doing a "sterling" job with swtor)

what went wrong

1 EA

2 see 1

 

  Kuldebar

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/13
Posts: 67

4/20/13 2:50:23 PM#62

WAR: what went wrong?

  • The world wasn't open and heavily instanced.
  • The Tier System split the game and the player base up even though bolstering was available and could have mitigated the need to do such a thing.
  • Scenarios vied with RvR (presumably the core of the game) and further split the player population up.
  • Constant flipping and laughable city seiges completely invalidated the value of victory and defeat in RvR.
  • Engine performance in large battles like Forts and later systems that were put in place to counter such problems: caps.
  • Only 2 player factions, didn't even make sense from a lore stand point. (Should have been 6 factions actually, or at the least, 3 opposing.)
  • Public Quests didn't ruin the game, but they didn't add much either, PvE was very weak in WAR.

 

 

 

Those who tread with ill intent
Beneath our sacred firmament,
Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
Albion's might shall strike at thee!

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/20/13 3:00:44 PM#63
Originally posted by Kuldebar

WAR: what went wrong?

  • The world wasn't open and heavily instanced.
  • The Tier System split the game and the player base up even though bolstering was available and could have mitigated the need to do such a thing.
  • Scenarios vied with RvR (presumably the core of the game) and further split the player population up.
  • Constant flipping and laughable city seiges completely invalidated the value of victory and defeat in RvR.
  • Engine performance in large battles like Forts and later systems that were put in place to counter such problems: caps.
  • Only 2 player factions, didn't even make sense from a lore stand point. (Should have been 6 factions actually, or at the least, 3 opposing.)
  • Public Quests didn't ruin the game, but they didn't add much either, PvE was very weak in WAR.

 

 

 

the world in warhammer isnt instanced at all, its a zoned world just like wow.  Only wow has 4 large zones and war has 16 medium sized zones.  they dont split it off into separate instances like AOC, TSW, swtor etc..

  Kuldebar

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/13
Posts: 67

4/20/13 6:26:28 PM#64
Originally posted by ShakyMo

 

the world in warhammer isnt instanced at all, its a zoned world just like wow.  Only wow has 4 large zones and war has 16 medium sized zones.  they dont split it off into separate instances like AOC, TSW, swtor etc..

Actually, you can see the portals, the single points of entry into the next zone, very unlike in WoW where you can enter a zone by crossing from anywhere accessible.

Those who tread with ill intent
Beneath our sacred firmament,
Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
Albion's might shall strike at thee!

  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 2080

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

4/21/13 3:30:31 AM#65
Originally posted by Kuldebar
Originally posted by ShakyMo

 

the world in warhammer isnt instanced at all, its a zoned world just like wow.  Only wow has 4 large zones and war has 16 medium sized zones.  they dont split it off into separate instances like AOC, TSW, swtor etc..

Actually, you can see the portals, the single points of entry into the next zone, very unlike in WoW where you can enter a zone by crossing from anywhere accessible.

They're still not instanced.

"Tiny clown, he got wet. I was talking to a psychic and I can't sleep in the ozone. There are too many different peanuts, looking sad.

  hfztt

Elite Member

Joined: 5/31/05
Posts: 703

4/21/13 3:36:01 AM#66
Dont mention the WAR...
  Methos12

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/05/08
Posts: 1218

Its better to be quiet and perceived as stupid, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

4/21/13 5:09:22 AM#67
Originally posted by ZedTheRock

2 Factions.

 

Poor production quality.

 

Overhype thanks to Paul Barnett.

 

 

Those are the 2 things that wen't wrong IMO.

I don't know why people hold this against Barnett. He was Mythic's PR guy for WAR, that was his job. He was probably the only one who actually DID his job right in that entire mess of a development process. Not his fault the end result didn't deliver.

Nature without Technology is little more than animals running about.
Nature without Magic is without wonder or miracle.
.........
Magic without Technology is fantasy.
Magic without Nature is formless and useless.
.........
Technology without Nature is application without understanding.
Technology without Magic is repetitious and uninventive.

  GoldenArrow

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/09/08
Posts: 1142

4/21/13 5:11:36 AM#68

WAR was launched unfinished.

People raged and left because it was unfinished.

The game was fixed & updated.

But F2P conversion never came.

Thus the game failed.

  Mamba2

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/11
Posts: 11

4/21/13 5:29:36 AM#69
I thougt WAR was a great game! Has plenty of fun times with it same as AOC which also gets "bagged".
  Skuz

Novice Member

Joined: 12/25/08
Posts: 1041

"If you can''t laugh at yourself there''s always someone around to show you how it''s done!"

4/21/13 5:35:53 AM#70

With there already being hundreds of autopsies on WAR already, why is there a need for yet another (Yes even with CU being in development).

I'm 100% certain no further enlightment can be gained by the 700th exhumation, hell there probably isn't a single molecule that hasn't been prodded & tested by now, this thread seems like vanity, the starter truly belives he has something new to offer?

  noblot

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/01/05
Posts: 287

Today is a good day to Pwn someone

4/21/13 7:31:06 AM#71

I played this for years, and a rabid GW fan as well (and DAoC for seven years).

It as good, and had some lovely moments; however ...

Two realms = fails

The three pairings, nice idea, but didn't work - give that this had been tried with multiple start points in DAoC and abaddoned in later versions, the Chaos gods only know why they went back to this design.

Scenarios killed it to a certain extent - but the answer was not getting rid of scenarios, but making Open RvR better. T1 RvR lakes always had actions - because they were fun, T2 T2 and T4 were not and hence did not attract the same level of decication. Again DAoC battle ground provided the same picture with the Lv24 Battleground being very popular. Again, simple rule - make it fun.

End PvP city sacking - I only did this once when the actual number of players was capped (much later in the design). It was epic, triggering the big bosses to come and fight on your side was good. I think the main problem with city sacking was that it very very rough to start with and by the time they sorted it, it has just such a bad reputation - rule one, don't release anything until it works, make it a beta part of the game until you are happy it has been sorted.

For me, the graphics let it down; its not about having the most poligons, its about good looks. DAoC look good, for all its age; WAR went down the Warcraft over the top cartoony look, and WAR was meant to be grim.

Finally, WAR was missing something (and it pains me to say it). Whatever that is, a soul, a loved and treasured game, genius, I don't know. DAoC had it, WAR, LoTR, and Warcraft were close but not close enough.

So, for CU.

Rule 1: More than two realms. Tick

Rule 2: Good graphics. Well the concept art is awesome, hopefully tick.

Rule 3: A fun game with a soul. DAoC had it, WAR just missed the mark - fingers crossed as there's nothing else out that that me and missus want to play.

  Kuldebar

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/13
Posts: 67

4/21/13 7:16:00 PM#72
Originally posted by Axxar
They're still not instanced.

 

Let's try to keep this simple: if a player has to go through a portal to enter the next zone, it's instanced and NOT A OPEN world design.

 

 

Those who tread with ill intent
Beneath our sacred firmament,
Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
Albion's might shall strike at thee!

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

4/21/13 7:35:27 PM#73
Then just about every mmo on the planet is instanced with your terminology.
  URMAKER

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/19/05
Posts: 653

4/21/13 7:36:58 PM#74

collectors edition still sitting in closet :(

 

1. 2 factions only....server pop. balance determined who won/lost

2. class balance....that bright wizard rain of fire shit went on for way to long.

3. to few updates especially on the pve side.

4. the whole "sacking the city" at the end didn't nearly feel as awesome or fulfilling as that british guy made it sound like it would be ;p

  Leethe

Novice Member

Joined: 3/12/09
Posts: 876

4/21/13 7:55:17 PM#75
Originally posted by TheHavok
 

I don't think Greg Zeschuk agrees with your point.

"No, I definitely reject it. And I can explain it too. The best analogy I use, in a positive way, is EA gives you enough rope to hang yourself. It was really interesting because we really made all the choices we wanted to make ourselves; these are all things we wanted to try. And that's something to remember - while we were independent we didn't have quite the resources we had as part of EA, and then we got to EA and it was like "wow we can do all this stuff." We had to be really thoughtful about what we wanted to focus on.

I remember this really distinct moment where - it was probably five or six months - we were just starting to wrap our head around how we worked with the company. And it took months for this formal period of joining EA, and learning how everything works, and when the initiation was done, we were sitting around asking how do we do stuff. It dawned on us, you just do it. That was the biggest revelation, that rope that EA gives you; they don't second-guess you, they don't say you shouldn't do that. We had complete creative control over a lot of it; some fans didn't like some of it and some of it was experimental, quite frankly.

The one caveat is at the end of the day for any company you have to run a profit, so you have to be thinking of things that actually make you profitable. So while you're taking all these creative risks in trying crazy stuff you almost have to simultaneously focus on the bottom line. The top line is not enough. In some ways, being independent I would say we had to be more conservative - being part of a big company, you could be more aggressive and try stuff. I think that's something people [struggle with] when they join EA; they do too much or they do too little."

Interview can be found here

Don't forget that when Warhammer launched, it had a LOT of empty servers.  And i'm not talking about servers being filled up the first day or two then people leave, i'm talking about empty servers from the start that never filled up.  Mythic assumed they were going to get a lot more players then they actually did.  AND they assumed they were going to hold on to those players a lot longer then they actually did.  They assumed they were going to be the next WoW in terms of popularity but their bad planning and bad coding ultimately brought their demise.

Good read, thanks. Basically, they blew it. Fair enough.

There is NO miracle patch.

95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.

Hope is not a stategy.
______________________________
"This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."

  shadow9d9

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 373

4/21/13 8:41:11 PM#76
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Then just about every mmo on the planet is instanced with your terminology.

Only the cookie cutter garbage we get nowadays... Asheron's call, from 1999, had a full open world 100x the size of any of the current games, without any need for zoning to explore it.

  Kuldebar

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/13
Posts: 67

4/22/13 4:26:44 AM#77
Originally posted by shadow9d9
Originally posted by ShakyMo
Then just about every mmo on the planet is instanced with your terminology.

Only the cookie cutter garbage we get nowadays... Asheron's call, from 1999, had a full open world 100x the size of any of the current games, without any need for zoning to explore it.

Finally! Someone who gets it! Thanks, Shadow9d9!

For freakin sakes, is an MMO open world concept so hard to understand? DAoC, AC and yes even WoW were open. But then came a slew of MMO's that subdivided their zones with zone walls and portals. No more climbing a mountain to find a hidden pass into the next territory, etc.

Hell, I am playing Tera Online right now, as far as I can tell so far, it's also open world design; but Warhammer was decidedly not.

 

 

Those who tread with ill intent
Beneath our sacred firmament,
Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
Albion's might shall strike at thee!

  Univers0

Novice Member

Joined: 8/20/13
Posts: 29

8/23/13 11:11:13 AM#78
I loved open world pvp when it happened, but incentives are there to pve either in dugeons for better gear or the city siege itself has a pve public quest.  The endgame just was not thought out as well as it should have been.   The focus should be on a dynamic war map, which is ever changing as two sides gain and consede territory, and the design of how that happens is actually what makes or breaks this kind of game. 
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