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BioWare Mythic
MMORPG | Genre:Fantasy | Status:Cancelled  (est.rel 09/18/08)  | Pub:Electronic Arts
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86 posts found
  twhint

Novice Member

Joined: 4/23/05
Posts: 563

9/12/08 5:22:13 PM#41
Originally posted by Saekora

I love how damn belligerent people are. If you say something that upsets them about a game, they fly into a rage and fling their shit at you.

 

I'm such a bad guy because I expect for classes to be balanced and for player skill to be the dominant factor in PvP. Oh, man, we wouldn't want for a person's ability to play the game well decide who wins. No, let's just compare spreadsheets and determine who wins statistically. No need for pesky players to muck it up with their skills. 

 

The point is you're simply being ignorant. This isn't a game for 'twitch' skills and people to run around like madmen trying to circle strafe or what have you. The only class able to do that effectively is the squig herder so far that I've seen.

Classes are balanced according to what archetype they are, not what class they are. I've broken it down for you and you simply refuse to see it in your blind devotion to some idea of 'skill' in 1v1 combat. THIS GAME ISN'T ABOUT 1V1. Go play a different game if that is what you want.  I'm not being insulting, I'm just letting you know this game isn't for you. It's not going to change.

Tactical skill is what will define how good you are in RvR, not some personal skill as a warrior who wanders about killing everyone in his path. You work together as a team, doing what your class is designed for. You just don't seem to be able to wrap your head around that concept and it's fine. But quite being so antagonistic about it. You've had several arguments of how class combat is, some of it more argumentative than others, but you should at least have gotten the point by now.

  Meltdown

Novice Member

Joined: 8/09/03
Posts: 1191

9/12/08 5:24:35 PM#42

lolthread

Warrior Priest does more dmg than other healers, but their healing suffers greatly. Focus fire the warrior priest and watch him #$%^ his pants because all he has is hots and medium armor. 1v1 yeah they definately have an edge against pure dps, but against tanks they can't really do anything.

Also even though I was told at the beginning that level really doesn't matter in pvp because you get brought up to speed with stats is a crock of bull and I hope you aren't lvl 3 trying to take on a lvl 11 warrior priest and QQing about how OP they are.

I believe the DoK and the WP are the two most difficult classes to play in this game. You can't heal for crap unless your on someone dealing dmg, which means you are switching defensive targets, chasing down your target all while trying to DPS and heal all at the same time.

Oh and if you see WPs at the top of healing charts, I really think they count overheals. As most times I throw hots on people who are at like 90% and I get top of the charts.

I think tanks who have abilities that increase their wounds and heal for the amount increased is OP. Can watch tanks for 1v3 for hours and neither side will win. Give them more dmg mitgation, stop giving them self-heals... they are tanks, not gods.

"They essentially want to say 'Correlation proves Causation' when it's just not true." - Sovrath

  Jetrpg

Novice Member

Joined: 4/22/06
Posts: 2395

9/12/08 5:43:02 PM#43

Minus melee dps being very good, or lucky no one , NO ONE, SHOULD BEAT A HEALER 1V1.  (actaully when you at later levels get the ability to heal yourself using scorch and the sorc counter part you may be able to do this. ) But regardless, a healer needs to be able to heal damage from 1-2 people on a single target (to make the game balenced and fun).

What you are missing is that if i have a group of 6 healers it will not die easy... but it will also kill nothing (unless they all assist target and doing this would allow another group to do the same and kill off the group of 6 healers 1 by 1 [unless they are all healing, where they may live but once agian kill no one]), that that group verse a group with 2-3 healers a tank or two a dps or 2 and guess what the Balanced group will win (or have a far greater avantage).

WAR is BALANCED FOR GROUPS AND MULTIPLE GROUPS.

WAR IS NOT BALANCED 1V1 AND THANK GOD IT IS NOT.

The entire point of the system is more strategy, not with just your single toon but with your group and with the groups next to you. It is really made to be a cooperative game and the fact you think the system is broke because of it makes me happy, because so many people have almost no expereince with games of this nature.

 

If that healer is impossiable to kill just yourself (and they are not i with 700 some hp got hit for a crit nuke from a  bw for 480 and then hit again for 200 some like instantly) then FIND YOURSELF A HEALER FRIEND AND MAYBE ANOTHER GUY OR TWO TO DPS /HEAL AND THEN GUESS WHAT YOU WILL ALSO NOT DIE BECAUSE YOUR GETTING HEALED.

That the point of the game its called strategy, have melee dps (and tanks) Block other melee dps or rush in and eat their ranged, have healer heal and block melee dps, you should be nuking and blocking melee dps. You have to work together, the game is not wow where you are a one man do everything swiss army knife, or your bust dps or cc is so high and effective that the player you face has no time to react and do anything at all. No in this game you have to use your head and think about how to defeat an enemy, it is never the same fight twice because people can block you, because fight do not instantly end , unless someone is not doing their job, because there are pleanty of modifcations and abilities you can use you alter the flow of the fight. One time blocking a melee dps with your caster body may safe your healer .... another time it may get you killed, you have to pick the most effective course based on the situation of your allies and enemies.

 

PS player skill is the dominate factor in this game, however, its real skill now not rolling a rouge or warrior and calling it skill. You have to preform well and so does the guy next to you and the guy next to them. No longer are you playing a game where you bring 15 people in an area and you break off and fight 1v1, now you have to live together or die apart.

"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine

  GreenChaos

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/06
Posts: 2274

9/12/08 5:52:25 PM#44

 

Not over powered at all, check your level against theres.  Are you like a level 1 in a scenario going up against a level 10 healer?

 

I take out healers with my tank.  Seriously - learn to play.

Your team should always be focus firing anyways. Don't try to solo someone in RvR. Get 4 tanks on a healer and watch them rip him up.

Teamwork people. Learn some goddamn teamwork.

 

  Zahzul

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/30/08
Posts: 71

9/12/08 6:06:45 PM#45

OP needs to l2p his class, but more importantly he needs to learn his enemies weaknesses. Also, this is an RvR game, ie group warfare. Your class may not be able to tackle certain classes, but that doesn't mean that any class cannot ;)
 

Zahzul Xfire Miniprofile
  arkanev

Novice Member

Joined: 4/23/06
Posts: 82

9/12/08 6:20:28 PM#46
Originally posted by Saekora

Even while raining utter hell down upon healers in the game with my Bright Wizard, it can be nigh impossible to kill them unless they become distracted or I get lucky and crit on all of my shots; otherwise, they simply heal themselves up fully. And the warrior priest is the worst. You can be a full-blown tank and get your ass kicked by one because they can repeatedly heal themselves.

 

LOL so you wouldn't be overpowered if you always killed them  o.O ...

 

none sense post

  Rhoklaw

Elite Member

Joined: 1/12/04
Posts: 3155

$500 Backer to 2015's Top New MMO... The Repopulation!

9/12/08 6:25:34 PM#47

Thats why you stop playing a Bright Wizard and switch to a Shadow Warrior, problem solved. Bright Wizards are great in a group, but they suck 1 vs. 1 and thats just how it is.

  blisterfist

Novice Member

Joined: 8/29/08
Posts: 69

ride the spiral to the end it may just go where no ones been

9/13/08 12:52:56 AM#48

Ive seen threads saying all kinds of classes are overpowered.

that is a sign of ballence i think.

rock: nerf paper, scissors is fine

paper: nerf scissors, rock is fine

scissors: nerf rock, paper is fine.

  DAS1337

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/28/07
Posts: 2383

9/13/08 2:30:14 AM#49

I played a Warrior Priest to lvl 10 and never lost a fight to anyone below me, my level, or up to 1 level higher than me.  I think I'm fairly skilled as a PvPer, no doubt it helps.. but I will have to agree that WP are extremely tough to kill, if they are being played by a compitant player.  I've found that normally, ranged damage is relatively innefective against me, however, several melee DPS targets can work me down quick.  Also, if my target is getting healed from range, I cannot kill them.  Early on, it seems that WP are geared towards 1v1 battles.  In RvR, they need to be killed very quickly, because they have the most survivablility if left alone.. and can actually dish out a lot of damage in melee. 

I'd imagine a squig herder would fair well, multiple targets, root effects.  Much like a hunter in WoW.  And perhaps a very high single target DPS class with silencing effects to control my non-attack heals.  Rune Priests.. I watched someone play one and still couldn't figure out what they are meant to do.. hehe.  Archmages need to be closed on quickly, squishy.  Kinda like a Mage in WoW, but with healing... (freaky)

 

Here is a tip.  Don't tell anyone... if you can't outdamage a healer class before they whittle you down, DRINK A POTION!!!!  They are vital in WAR, there are only two professions, and one of them happens to make potions.  Seriously, use them.  Change out your tactics loadout.  Mess with your skills so that your debuff effects trigger first, meaning.. don't get googly eyes over a skill that does 500 damage... I'd rather make my opponent weaker for the duration of the fight, or make myself stronger.. than use a skill that may not even hit my target.  Use talismans.  Go get the most recent renown gear.  Get a friend and stop whining.

  kelemit

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/05
Posts: 21

9/13/08 2:54:27 AM#50

I find it absolutely hilarious that, in a game designed to reflect a war, people are complaining that different classes as stronger than each other.

 

Let me ask you.  If you are a lvl 10000000 horseman, do you charge a row of lvl 1 pikeman?  NO!  YOU WILL DIE!  Your level, at this point, has NOTHING to do with it.  In fact, your experience in war, as a lvl 100000000 horseman SHOULD HAVE TAUGHT YOU by now to STAY AWAY from pikeman.  And/or ONLY attack them from the rear if you are absolutely certain you can reach them before they turn around.

 

Can a rifleman take out a sherman tank... come on man, a lvl 1000000 rifleman should have massive amounts of experience and his skill should be greater than a sherman tank!!!!

 

Can a bomber dogfight with a fighter?  Man.. we are equal lvls, my bomber should be able to take out an equal lvl and equal equipped fighter.. i have SKILLZ man... WOW!!

 

I'm sorry sir, but you are an idiot.  This game is DESIGNED AROUND WARFARE!  One thing that we have ALWAYS learned, especially those of use who have studied history, is that certain "classes" have skills that overwhelm and are superior to others.  In fact, each "class" is often MADE in RESPONSE to another class / warrior type that has been created!

 

People made pikeman because of how overwhelmingly powerful horses were in a battlefield.  Horses are great against archers, because they are so agile and fast, and protected from the archers attack.  For the most part, archers can't hit a horseman.  (Excellentally trained ones can, but most medieval archers weren't well trained unless they were hunters.)  Archers are great against light infantry, and slaughter anything trying to come at them on foot, but once in melee range, they DIE!

Think about it.  What reason do fighters (airplanes) have to exist at all!  To fight other fighters?  Why?  To protect bombers and/or kill the incoming bombers.  THEY DO NOTHING ELSE.  If there were no bombers, no country in the world would own any fighters beside some simple reconnaisance planes... which, of course, would make people think... hmmm.. if we could should them down... OOH!

 

That's the point.  We think of new weapons, then a DEFENSE AGAINST that weapon, then a STRONGER weapon to OVERCOME that defense, then have to htink of a NEW DEFENSE against this NEW STRONGER weapon.

 

THIS IS WAR!  NOT dueling!!!  This isn't rock paper scissors (it is at its most basic)... this is a fact of life.  If you want to complain to the military. 

 

Serioulsy, you start sounding like an idiot with some of the things you are saying.  Exampe:  MAN... I should be able to take outa Aircraft carrier man... i'm a freakin' FOUR STAR GENERAL MAN!!!!  I'm only 250 EXP points from a FIVE STAR GENERAL MAN!!! I should easily take out an equal or lower lvl aircraft carrier because I HAVE SKILLZ MAN!!!!!

 

SIgh...

Even if you want to argue about your "L337 SKILLS" to take out a sniper, or special forces, I would have to laugh at you... YOUR SKILL THAT HAS BEEN TRAINED INTO YOU as a general is TO LEAD... to strategically plan for war.  Special forces skill is to kill fast, quick, with overwhelming force and power, in a 1 on 1 situation.  Any time you get the bugger trapped somewhere surrounded by a troop of even the greenest noobs, the guy will probably die.  And so will you.

 

Sorry man, welcome to life

SOME PEOPLE ARE BETTER THAN YOU at some things!   wow... thats sooo wierd! 

sigh

Kelemit

  geldonyetich

Novice Member

Joined: 1/15/07
Posts: 1377

9/13/08 4:00:10 AM#51

There's a series of silenicng spells/abilities that most classes get access to as the game goes on.  That can really sabotage a healer, I'm sure.

That said, the argument that 1 healer counteracts 1 nuker is probably pretty fair too.

I will say that there's a definate difference between a team with a healers and a team without.  Although I have seen some pretty effective teams without healers sometimes.  Never underestimate the power of a good tank zerg.

  originalegg

Novice Member

Joined: 10/09/06
Posts: 1153

Darkfall Releases - February 25th!!! Vaporware trolls = scum

9/13/08 5:35:58 AM#52

When every class complains about other classes being overpowered....that is when you know you have achieved "balance"

  User Deleted
9/13/08 6:01:58 AM#53
Originally posted by Haelix

  Here's the thing that you REALLY need to remember. Healers are annoying cause you can't kill them, but your actually ARE killing someone when you nuke the healer, just not the healer. The more time you keep a healer focused on keeping himself alive the less he's healing his teammates. You may not drop the healer but I guarantee his will friends start dropping pretty quick if you keep him occupied. You can either keep a healer focused on keeping himself alive, or focused on keeping his entire group alive. I'd say that even though your not killing the healer your still providing a valuable service to your team. 

  Example, I was playing a IB in a scenario, came flying up behind the enemy line and assaulted their two healers,just annoying them really. But both healers, sensing an easy kill, chased me down, took em a minute to kill me since I was running to beat hell by that time. Sounds like I accomplished nothing right? By the time the two healers got back to healing their teammates the entire team was dead, and the healers got swamped. So I was, IN FACT, directly responsible for getting the entire enemy team wiped.

  I get so tired of people playing the scenarios like the only point of it is to get to the top of the Total Damage done list. It's objective based gameplay yet too many people play it like its a simple deathmatch game, ignoring objectives to go play chase the squishy.

I'm not a seasoned pvp player.  Played a little in swg and tried to in wow (couldn't last too long in wow), I keep running in warhammer with the group to the objective and then try to tank, but I must be doing something wrong.  When I notice the player I'm trying to keep on me is getting healed I'll go after the healer, but by then I notice the entire group I was with has left the area and I'm all alone with what seems the entire order group coming after me lol.  Needless to say I won't last long alone. 
 

I'm trying to find out how to better play the tank role in warhammer on different forums, but just haven't found the right information yet.  You're saying to yes, go after the healer and keep them busy on you and I've seen others here saying a tank should be protecting the healers.  I'd do that if there were actually people healing, but it seems they're always nowhere to be found when I turn around.  People got me chasing them all around the room with the flag that the group was originaly going after.  They don't stand still hehe. 

I'm really trying to learn how to pvp better so I'll be more help and possibly make it so we'd win a match here and there.  So far I've been in alot of scenarios in the greenskin starter area and the destruction side on the server I'm playing has only won the round a few times that I've been a part of.  It really seems like the order side is more together with their team than the destruction.  It may be different on other servers though. 

I'm not like the original poster though.  I think the classes are all balanced more than likely.  I'm just unsure on what my main objective for my class should be.  I stay alive alot longer than I have in any other mmo I've played that I attempted to pvp in, that's what's making the black orc tank fun for me.  It's not fun to die immediately, at least it takes a group to take me down in this game.  I just always wonder where the team is when I am all of a sudden all alone.  It seems they are always at another objective room trying to get that and have just given up the other areas I guess. 

I usually get killed by a bunch of players that are sticking together and once I die it's hard to find anyone from my side again.  I figure they too are either dead or somewhere on the other side of all the order players.  At that point it's pretty hard to get to where they are if I have to run through 10 people beating on me to get to them lol.  What am I doing wrong here?  Any help would be appriciated.

  Kruniac2

Novice Member

Joined: 4/27/08
Posts: 38

9/13/08 6:59:39 AM#54

8 Chosen against a 9 Healer, I had latest gear available, used taunt, teeth, etc.

 

...Spam healed himself. I didnt have a chance. Imbalanced.

  gan3f

Novice Member

Joined: 12/04/07
Posts: 287

9/13/08 7:08:08 AM#55
Originally posted by Mandarr
Originally posted by Haelix

  Here's the thing that you REALLY need to remember. Healers are annoying cause you can't kill them, but your actually ARE killing someone when you nuke the healer, just not the healer. The more time you keep a healer focused on keeping himself alive the less he's healing his teammates. You may not drop the healer but I guarantee his will friends start dropping pretty quick if you keep him occupied. You can either keep a healer focused on keeping himself alive, or focused on keeping his entire group alive. I'd say that even though your not killing the healer your still providing a valuable service to your team. 

  Example, I was playing a IB in a scenario, came flying up behind the enemy line and assaulted their two healers,just annoying them really. But both healers, sensing an easy kill, chased me down, took em a minute to kill me since I was running to beat hell by that time. Sounds like I accomplished nothing right? By the time the two healers got back to healing their teammates the entire team was dead, and the healers got swamped. So I was, IN FACT, directly responsible for getting the entire enemy team wiped.

  I get so tired of people playing the scenarios like the only point of it is to get to the top of the Total Damage done list. It's objective based gameplay yet too many people play it like its a simple deathmatch game, ignoring objectives to go play chase the squishy.

I'm not a seasoned pvp player.  Played a little in swg and tried to in wow (couldn't last too long in wow), I keep running in warhammer with the group to the objective and then try to tank, but I must be doing something wrong.  When I notice the player I'm trying to keep on me is getting healed I'll go after the healer, but by then I notice the entire group I was with has left the area and I'm all alone with what seems the entire order group coming after me lol.  Needless to say I won't last long alone. 
 

I'm trying to find out how to better play the tank role in warhammer on different forums, but just haven't found the right information yet.  You're saying to yes, go after the healer and keep them busy on you and I've seen others here saying a tank should be protecting the healers.  I'd do that if there were actually people healing, but it seems they're always nowhere to be found when I turn around.  People got me chasing them all around the room with the flag that the group was originaly going after.  They don't stand still hehe. 

I'm really trying to learn how to pvp better so I'll be more help and possibly make it so we'd win a match here and there.  So far I've been in alot of scenarios in the greenskin starter area and the destruction side on the server I'm playing has only won the round a few times that I've been a part of.  It really seems like the order side is more together with their team than the destruction.  It may be different on other servers though. 

I'm not like the original poster though.  I think the classes are all balanced more than likely.  I'm just unsure on what my main objective for my class should be.  I stay alive alot longer than I have in any other mmo I've played that I attempted to pvp in, that's what's making the black orc tank fun for me.  It's not fun to die immediately, at least it takes a group to take me down in this game.  I just always wonder where the team is when I am all of a sudden all alone.  It seems they are always at another objective room trying to get that and have just given up the other areas I guess. 

I usually get killed by a bunch of players that are sticking together and once I die it's hard to find anyone from my side again.  I figure they too are either dead or somewhere on the other side of all the order players.  At that point it's pretty hard to get to where they are if I have to run through 10 people beating on me to get to them lol.  What am I doing wrong here?  Any help would be appriciated.

 

Once you find a guild that plays well together and has tactics, you will find how effective the tank class can be.  until then 75% of the time when you pug you will more then likely be bashing your head on your desk in frustration.

  Bintowe

Novice Member

Joined: 8/25/08
Posts: 48

9/13/08 7:21:07 AM#56

I didn't read the entire thread (seems to be mostly a lot of complaining...) but I will say this for the RvR tank thing...it's really kind of a joke, because you DO not, as far as I am aware, receive contribution points for damage received...so you will pretty much always be in the back of everything.  This means theres no real reason to actually tank, especially considering the taunt does not bring your target to attack you (it just adds a dmg bonus for YOUR attacks, if the tooltip is accurate.)

 

And my Ironbreaker may take a bit to kill a shammy, but I rip apart those casters/melee/other tanks.

  User Deleted
9/13/08 7:42:30 AM#57

I understand your point on getting into a good guild.  I'm planning on joining my friends guild they played wow on so they'll probably be using voice communication.  I was just unsure if I was doing something wrong or if it's the people I get grouped with when I click to join solo in a scenario since I'm not with a guild at this time.  I always seem to find myself alone all of a sudden with no objectives met and then I'm easy pickens for the group of order players that surround me hehe.

At least I guess I'm keeping those people occupied, but it would sure help if the people in my party would stick together instead of running off everywhere or whatever they are doing.  

  AlienShirt

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/04
Posts: 623

9/13/08 8:14:41 AM#58
Originally posted by Saekora

Even while raining utter hell down upon healers in the game with my Bright Wizard, it can be nigh impossible to kill them unless they become distracted or I get lucky and crit on all of my shots; otherwise, they simply heal themselves up fully. And the warrior priest is the worst. You can be a full-blown tank and get your ass kicked by one because they can repeatedly heal themselves.


 

lrn2play healers are not OP at all...apparently you never played one in beta

  demented669

Novice Member

Joined: 1/02/05
Posts: 405

9/13/08 5:21:30 PM#59
Originally posted by Kruniac2

8 Chosen against a 9 Healer, I had latest gear available, used taunt, teeth, etc.

 

...Spam healed himself. I didnt have a chance. Imbalanced.

 

i was lvl 9 black orc i jumped a rune preist was lvl 7 i ran at him bashed him good but he was healing could not use any action to use attack spells on me he had to use that to save his butt, that lasted 5 minute then his friends showed up a engeneer then a iron breaker both lvl 6 and 7 i think they droped me in about 5 more minutes.

not imbalanced at all just good times

  Kailash

Novice Member

Joined: 1/23/07
Posts: 306

Anybody need a towel!?!

South Park, Mr.Towely

9/14/08 2:51:45 AM#60
Originally posted by Saekora

Even while raining utter hell down upon healers in the game with my Bright Wizard, it can be nigh impossible to kill them unless they become distracted or I get lucky and crit on all of my shots; otherwise, they simply heal themselves up fully. And the warrior priest is the worst. You can be a full-blown tank and get your ass kicked by one because they can repeatedly heal themselves.

thats cause teams atm are retarded and dont know how to cincintrate damage. Ima true zealot ((heals doesnt DPS)) and once 2 or 3 DPSers have me locked on i go down extremly fast. Though if my CDs are up i have a ton of instant heals and shields. Im glad healers are strong. Im tired of picking a healing class thats gimp to the balls and all the DPS has all the fun ><

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