Your version of Hardcore / Casual is only baalanced as Raiders vs Everyone else which is NOT what Hardcore generally means.

 God raiders..can't figure anything out without someone directing them on how to do things.

Originally posted by elvenangel

Your version of Hardcore / Casual is only baalanced as Raiders vs Everyone else which is NOT what Hardcore generally means.

 God raiders..can't figure anything out without someone directing them on how to do things.

Please enlighten us as to what gameplay systems you have developed that cater to everyone. All I hear is whining and no solutions.

  So if a MMO had hardcore raiding that rewarded players with the best gear, yet you could go out into the wilderness and kill a mob or chop down trees that gave the same rewards, would you be happy? or if the rewards were crap compared to what hard work gives you, would you still complain?

   Or do we just do away with all pre-concieved notions of what End game should be and invent something that will only make players want to log on for an hour instead of wasting their lives in front of a monitor?

   The addicitive nature of MMO's and promises of great rewards that set you apart from other players is what MMO's are all about. Maybe instead of raiding for 4 hours a night you would have:

"Kill 100,000 Murlocs"

Reward: Tier 6 helm.   Or wait grinding is hardcore to. hell questing is hardcore to. Shit anything that takes longer to do than the time I have allotted for gaming is hardcore.

   I hope war uses casual as cannon fodder and rewards them with better gear just for dying more than anyone on the battle field. Shut em up somewhow.

   Why dont you casual players stop whining and Defend Halaa so us hardcore players can get the World Buff as were grinding Badge Gear? I mean Blizzard went so far as to supply gear that is just as good as most Tier 5 through doing Heroic non-raid dungeons and you still complain. They even removed the attunement quests to enter into any raid dungeon(making it less hardcore)  Actually, I should just form all of my statements in non-question form, because I wont get answers to anything, just whining.

  Actually if all the raids were designed like Karazahn(10 man - easy mode) everyone would be happier.

If you ask a hardcore raiding guild if they enjoy spending 4-5 hours wiping in a instance to get one piece of loot they will tell you no, but that time and effort into building up your guild to get better gear is what drives them.

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Originally posted by XImpalerX
      MMORPG's will always reward long term players who have put the most time in.
    Take someone who has practiced guitar 6 hours a day ,7 days a week, for 1 year. Hes hardcore.
Take someone who plays guitar 1 hour a day, 2 days a week, 1 year. He's Casual
 
  Assuming both are equally gifted, the hardcore player  will progress faster in his training over the casual.
Casual says to Hardcore "Hey thats not fair, just because you trained harder than me, doesnt mean you should be better than me. Boo-Hoo." Your right here you go well give you a pass.
 

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I have no problem with people being good because of practice.

I do have a problem with people who are "Raiders" mainly the WoW crowd that think there better than anyone else because they Raid. People that dont pvp that think there good? People that look down on me because I dont devote loads of RL time to something that wont directly improve my quality of life?

Just out of curiosity, what mmos youve played? Seriously played.
Which ones were your favortie?

Originally posted by logangregor

 

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Originally posted by XImpalerX
      MMORPG's will always reward long term players who have put the most time in.
    Take someone who has practiced guitar 6 hours a day ,7 days a week, for 1 year. Hes hardcore.
Take someone who plays guitar 1 hour a day, 2 days a week, 1 year. He's Casual
 
  Assuming both are equally gifted, the hardcore player  will progress faster in his training over the casual.
Casual says to Hardcore "Hey thats not fair, just because you trained harder than me, doesnt mean you should be better than me. Boo-Hoo." Your right here you go well give you a pass.
 

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I have no problem with people being good because of practice.

I do have a problem with people who are "Raiders" mainly the WoW crowd that think there better than anyone else because they Raid. People that dont pvp that think there good? People that look down on me because I dont devote loads of RL time to something that wont directly improve my quality of life?

Just out of curiosity, what mmos youve played? Seriously played.
Which ones were your favortie?

   Seriously played as in 1 year or more in order EQ, DAoC, Lineage 2, WoW'

I have tested just about every other MMO on the market for months at a time, before uninstalling.

Out of those Lineage 2 was the most hardcore I ever played. And yes when your in the top tier in Lineage 2, you are a walking god. Which is what is lacking from WoW. Everyone is balanced and happy go lucky..wel except the "casual" players.

   I guess when you start to get a little older you start to dissect games and see them for what they truly are, instead of when your a kid and a teenager, they are a magical journey for you.

  Once the magic out of gaming in your life has come and gone it takes something really special(like when WoW launched) to make you all giddy inside. I honestly wish there wasnt an end game.

  Just unlimited character advancement. I like to level up and gain new skills/spells forever.

Originally posted by XImpalerX

   I hope war uses casual as cannon fodder and rewards them with better gear just for dying more than anyone on the battle field. Shut em up somewhow.

   Why dont you casual players stop whining and Defend Halaa so us hardcore players can get the World Buff as were grinding Badge Gear? I mean Blizzard went so far as to supply gear that is just as good as most Tier 5 through doing Heroic non-raid dungeons and you still complain.

While I find your constant whining and crying about casuals "whining" somewhat amusing (since it's hardcore raiders who do all the whining and crying), it is amazing how ignorant you are to simple economics.  We're supposed to be impressed because you have 6+ hours a day to waste watching youtube videos to see how to down a boss, farm mats and maybe get in 3-4 hours of raiding?  You honestly think Blizzard wants to say goodbye to 90% of their customer base because 2 hours or less per day isn't hardcore enough for you?

Try not to min/max so much, people aren't saying, "don't have gear" or "gear shouldn't matter."  They're saying don't make daily time invested >>> skill.  Casuals don't want handouts, they want to be competitive. 

It sounds like you enjoy WoW hopefully you'll stay there, after all the "casuals who enjoy PvP" migrate over to Warhammer you can enjoy your game without us...

Originally posted by AerthanTN

 

Originally posted by XImpalerX

   I hope war uses casual as cannon fodder and rewards them with better gear just for dying more than anyone on the battle field. Shut em up somewhow.

   Why dont you casual players stop whining and Defend Halaa so us hardcore players can get the World Buff as were grinding Badge Gear? I mean Blizzard went so far as to supply gear that is just as good as most Tier 5 through doing Heroic non-raid dungeons and you still complain.

 

While I find your constant whining and crying about casuals "whining" somewhat amusing (since it's hardcore raiders who do all the whining and crying), it is amazing how ignorant you are to simple economics.  We're supposed to be impressed because you have 6+ hours a day to waste watching youtube videos to see how to down a boss, farm mats and maybe get in 3-4 hours of raiding?  You honestly think Blizzard wants to say goodbye to 90% of their customer base because 2 hours or less per day isn't hardcore enough for you?

Try not to min/max so much, people aren't saying, "don't have gear" or "gear shouldn't matter."  They're saying don't make daily time invested >>> skill.  Casuals don't want handouts, they want to be competitive. 

It sounds like you enjoy WoW hopefully you'll stay there, after all the "casuals who enjoy PvP" migrate over to Warhammer you can enjoy your game without us...

 

 

It's amazing how you huys just dont see it.

---World of Warcraft---

Raiding = hardcore\several hours a night time invest

Arena = Casual\ 10 game per week

Battlegrounds = Casual\play as many or as little as you want

Crafting = casual\buy all mats on AH\375 skill in one day

Leveling =Casual\ 30% reduction in exp to level from 20-60, neat little icons to show you were all quests are. Rested exp = don't play for days and level up even faster when you do play

5 man instance's Non-Heroic\Heroic = Casual\Trade in bagdes of honor for gear thats just as good if not better than raid gear.

Daily quests = Casual\ do as many or as little you want.

So at the end of the showdown its ---Hardcore -1- and Casuals - 6- i think its clear as to who the real winner is. If anything WoW is the most casual friendly mmo on the market atm and your still complaining.

Originally posted by XImpalerX

 So at the end of the showdown its ---Hardcore -1- and Casuals - 6- i think its clear as to who the real winner is. If anything WoW is the most casual friendly mmo on the market atm and your still complaining.

Who's complaining?  All I see in your posts is, "WAAA!  Only people who raid should get decent gear.  PvP sucks because it's not a scripted encounter I can run over and over and over again week after week and if I don't have gear that is 100x better than everyone else I get pwnd.  WAAA!"

Originally posted by AerthanTN

 

Originally posted by XImpalerX

 So at the end of the showdown its ---Hardcore -1- and Casuals - 6- i think its clear as to who the real winner is. If anything WoW is the most casual friendly mmo on the market atm and your still complaining.

 

Who's complaining?  All I see in your posts is, "WAAA!  Only people who raid should get decent gear.  PvP sucks because it's not a scripted encounter I can run over and over and over again week after week and if I don't have gear that is 100x better than everyone else I get pwnd.  WAAA!"

   I've said all i wanted to say. I wont be replying to thistopic anymore.

  i do pose this question for the third time in hopes that I can get a straight answer.

"What gameplay systems have you invented/developed that balances casual vs hardcore?

Top tier RvR in WAR will cater to hardcore players.

GS: Aside from the fact that the massively multiplayer audience has matured, and now there is a sizeable population of veterans who might look for a hardcore competitive experience, how will Warhammer Online appeal to beginners and get them to buy into competitive RvR play, beyond the usual experience of getting yelled at by hyperactive 12-year-olds who play competitive games day and night?

MJ: [Laughs.] We've done it right before, and we might, as you say, be seen as a hardcore company that makes hardcore games like Dark Age of Camelot, though of course, for the true hardcore players, we were seen as "Care Bears" compared to the Shadowbanes of the world. On the other hand, our game worked.

What we're hoping to do with the RvR experience, through the multiple ways you can get into RvR, or even the competitive PvE aspects of the game, is get people in from the beginning. Now, this won't be the equivalent of Dark Age of Camelot's open RvR system, where in that game, a 10th-level player who ventured into the frontiers would get his butt kicked time after time by the "gank squads." No, you're not going to have that.

We're going to get players into RvR much more safely in more evenly matched situations where they will not be up against guys who can take advantage of them time and time again. That's something we need, especially in what we're calling the "core RvR rule set." That's what a lot of players want. There is no "one type" of player, as you know. Some like really hardcore PvP environments where you can kill anyone, others like PvP for "realm pride," where you're just fighting for Hibernia or the Empire, or Midgard or the Greenskins, you want to believe in your side and fight for your side. So, we're going to have that as well.

And then there are the players who are scared of RvR because, as you say very astutely, [laughs] sometimes it is the hyperactive 12-year-olds who form these gank squads, or have just played the game constantly so they know every trick, so a lot of these players won't even venture in. What we're trying to do is make it a bit fairer at times to get them in. And then, when they go to true open RvR, or the sacking of cities, they'll have the experience, and I hope they'll lose some of the fear, of RvR. But it's important to keep in mind that Warhammer is being designed [for] even if you don't want to RvR. We've said from the beginning, if you want to PvE your way up from the ground up, you can. There will not be as much content as in RvR, because RvR is a never-ending thing, but there will be plenty. The directive from me in the design from the beginning has always been that any player playing any character class, of any race, should be able to PvE their way up to the top of the system, even if they don't want to engage in RvR. But, we encourage them to. We reward them for it. We give them an environment that's conducive to RvR. And we think that'll go over very well with the entire community.

  The only thing I see from this is that no longer will the game be segregated by hardcore/casual, but it is being done so that no matter what stage of progression your at anyone will be effective and helpful to the overall WAR effort, regardless of play style.

   Coming right from the Dev team that RvR WILL have MORE content for RvR. Will you be upset when it takes 2-3 hours to take a castle/keep and you dont have the time to devote to kill the king to get the best gear?

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Originally posted by XImpalerX
The only thing I see from this is that no longer will the game be segregated by hardcore/casual, but it is being done so that no matter what stage of progression your at anyone will be effective and helpful to the overall WAR effort, regardless of play style.

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This sounds awesome to me, exactly the style of game I'd like to play.

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Coming right from the Dev team that RvR WILL have MORE content for RvR. Will you be upset when it takes 2-3 hours to take a castle/keep and you dont have the time to devote to kill the king to get the best gear?

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If it's not instanced I'd hope it would take a lot longer than 2-3 hours, especially considering the end result is one faction losing access to a capital city for a full day. I'd love to see sieges last multiple days. I'd like to log in at night an relieve the group at the front lines. I want epic, epic is not pillar humping in 2v2 for a few hours a week with n in-game (other than epeen) ramifications and epic is certainly not "killing" the same boss every week and having addons tell me I need to move or to "get ready for the next big thing that will wipe the party" or I need to not hit so hard because some big meanie will one-shot me if I hit too hard.

The concept of hardcore is utterly ridiculous to me.

Before I get started, I'll say it, I Used to be a hardcore MMO'er. Two years, down the tubes, nothing but gaming, all the time.

Then I got a life.

I still enjoy MMO's for the simple reason that it's a game you can never beat, thus you get to spend much more time playing and enjoying your self progression then any console game.

With that said, it absolutely slays me that people want to be rewarded for NOT having a life.

"I choose to spend every waking moment I have in your game instead of real life, thus you should treat me better then someone who spends less time here!"

HONESTLY! Why would you EVER be rewarded for neglecting REAL LIFE?! If anything you should be punished!

Now, there are some very touching stories about people with handicaps getting to experience SOME kind of life through MMO's, I'm sympathetic to that.

But unless you have a better reason then "I'm overweight" or "I suffer from social anxiety" I really don't think you should be catered too.

At best you should be pitied.

Flame on!

Originally posted by XImpalerX

 Another whiner with no opinions, no solutions, and no substance to his post. Here's a tip for you, Bind /cry to every key on your keyboard and roll your face across it next time your speaking to me. Seriously though why even post if you cant add anything constructive?

   

Actually I did. And so did other posters in this and similar threads. In order to earn respect from others you have to show respect as well... by at least acknowledging other peoples opinions and, to put it bluntly, bothering to read them. Which is where you fail.

Your arrogant and elitist stance is leading you nowhere. At least learn to be polite or you'll find yourself yelling at a wall or playing a dying game on an empty server.

On another note.. (and this isn't an attempt to start a flamewar) you might consider playing AoC instead of WAR. The game looks really decent, especially graphics wise and it has some really "hardcore" mechanisms in place... Such as 3 tiers for each dungeon (you have to collect all gear from tier 1 to be capable of taking tier 2 etc) and a heavily guild oriented instanced siege PvP which allows only the top guilds with high PvP ratings to participate at all. This looks like a hard core raiders dream to me which is precisely why I won't be playing it. However I understand that this might appeal to some people and I don't think any less off them because of it. Which is where we differ.