Casual = Hardcore Over Time.

   Casual raids once a week. Hardcore raids 5 times a week. Casual is uber in 5 weeks. Hardcore is uber in 1 week. I dont see any reason to complain from either side. Hardcore players are happy getting loot quickly. Casual players are happy to getting loot once a week and then crying over it because the hardcore is in full epics.

   MMO's have always favored players with more time to play the game. it is only the recent uproar of whining from casuals birthed from WoW that this debate stems from.

Originally posted by MrVicchio

 

Originally posted by altairzq

God I hate casual players, they just play for half an hour and want all MMOs changed to their likings.

It's more like we have lives and cannot dedicated 4 hours a night to "raiding".  Been there, done that got the tshirt. 

 

 

I want to have FUN, not work for something.

  Go play a diferent genre. MMO's arent for you.

Call of Duty 4 would fit your schedule better imo.

Originally posted by XImpalerX

Originally posted by MrVicchio

 

Originally posted by altairzq

God I hate casual players, they just play for half an hour and want all MMOs changed to their likings.

It's more like we have lives and cannot dedicated 4 hours a night to "raiding".  Been there, done that got the tshirt. 

 

 

I want to have FUN, not work for something.

  Go play a diferent genre. MMO's arent for you.

Call of Duty 4 would fit your schedule better imo.

Whats funny is the MMO genre is heading more twords the casual player. So what are you as an eliteist going to do when your precious "I'm better than you raids" are taken away? Take away raids from WoW. Verry casual game. LOTRO? Again, extreemly casual game. AoC? Well....we dont really know yet. WAR? Public quests....short RvR....again the elitests are going to be left out. Looks like your the one that needs to start looking at a diffrent genre.

Originally posted by XImpalerX

Originally posted by MrVicchio

 

Originally posted by altairzq

God I hate casual players, they just play for half an hour and want all MMOs changed to their likings.

It's more like we have lives and cannot dedicated 4 hours a night to "raiding".  Been there, done that got the tshirt. 

 

 

I want to have FUN, not work for something.

  Go play a diferent genre. MMO's arent for you.

Call of Duty 4 would fit your schedule better imo.

If you can make 1000 people happy to pay for your game, but piss 10 people off so much that they won't pay, who cares?  It makes good business sense to do so.  Oh no!  You just lost the hardcore market but you gained the casual market which is probably at least 100 times as large.

It may be best to remember that video games are a business.  Whatever makes the most money (a direct result of making the most people happy) is the best decision that can be made.

Sorry to ruin "your" game... actually, no I'm not.  I'm going to have fun playing. :)

About the only time I liked raiding an such was things like DAoC's raids for stuff like ML's/Arty credit (after the change). Because everyone doing it got credit. Didnt have to spend hours and hours in a raid group an hope you got the drop/won the roll on the drop.

Clearly, the best solution is for a game that offers rewards for both the casual player and the hardcore gamer. This makes more people overall happy, and garners the company that does so successfully more cash.

Guild Wars was one that did that pretty well. Another? City of Heroes, with their Sidekick system, allowed Casual Players to play with the Hardcore players.

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Originally posted by XImpalerX
Casual = Hardcore Over Time.
   Casual raids once a week. Hardcore raids 5 times a week. Casual is uber in 5 weeks. Hardcore is uber in 1 week. I dont see any reason to complain from either side. Hardcore players are happy getting loot quickly. Casual players are happy to getting loot once a week and then crying over it because the hardcore is in full epics.
   MMO's have always favored players with more time to play the game. it is only the recent uproar of whining from casuals birthed from WoW that this debate stems from.

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The recent uproar of whining?

I dont think it has anyting to do with whining. WoW reached a bigger fan base than any previous mmo had done to date. A more diverse fanbase will naturally want different things. Time has been and will continute to be a very precious commodity.

Are you married? Ever had your wife bitch about how much time youve spent playing your game of choice? Do you think WoWs raiding system helps?

The BS started with EQ if you ask me and fed right into WoW. I havent played Ultima, but from my friends have said, raiding wasnt such a huge part of the game. Raiding wasnt a huge part of Shadowbane, Dark Ages of Camelot and many other games to date.

And regardless, say you are right, and that mmos have always favored people with more time (naturally I disagree), WHO CARES.

All things change in time and hopefully this will too.

      MMORPG's will always reward long term players who have put the most time in.

    Take someone who has practiced guitar 6 hours a day ,7 days a week, for 1 year. Hes hardcore.

Take someone who plays guitar 1 hour a day, 2 days a week, 1 year. He's Casual

  Assuming both are equally gifted, the hardcore player  will progress faster in his training over the casual.

Casual says to Hardcore "Hey thats not fair, just because you trained harder than me, doesnt mean you should be better than me. Boo-Hoo." Your right here you go well give you a pass.

Originally posted by markoraos

 

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by MrVicchio

 

Originally posted by altairzq

God I hate casual players, they just play for half an hour and want all MMOs changed to their likings.

It's more like we have lives and cannot dedicated 4 hours a night to "raiding".  Been there, done that got the tshirt. 

 

 

I want to have FUN, not work for something.

I know I know... have heard this one thousand times...

 

I really don't get what's your problem...

You'll still get the coolest trophies and the best gear to pwn us married "kiddies" with full time jobs. However there won't be any content that we're locked out of and since the majority of it doesnt have player limits attached you'll welcome us as cannon fodder at least.

IMO your leet hardcore uberness has no point unless you got us poor sods to compare it to.

Everybody wins!

God, to play 2 hours a week, do you really need an MMO? go play Guitar Hero or something.

Originally posted by altairzq

 

Originally posted by markoraos

 

Originally posted by altairzq

Originally posted by MrVicchio

 

Originally posted by altairzq

God I hate casual players, they just play for half an hour and want all MMOs changed to their likings.

It's more like we have lives and cannot dedicated 4 hours a night to "raiding".  Been there, done that got the tshirt. 

 

 

I want to have FUN, not work for something.

I know I know... have heard this one thousand times...

 

I really don't get what's your problem...

You'll still get the coolest trophies and the best gear to pwn us married "kiddies" with full time jobs. However there won't be any content that we're locked out of and since the majority of it doesnt have player limits attached you'll welcome us as cannon fodder at least.

IMO your leet hardcore uberness has no point unless you got us poor sods to compare it to.

Everybody wins!

My problem is, I want dungeons where a group has to spend 5 hours to finish, something epic. Not a 1 hour dungeon. With you, people that want a whole MMO just to play one hour during two days a week, developers have to dumb down everything just to accomodate to your oh so busy lifes.

 

God, to play 2 hours a week, do you really need an MMO? go play Guitar Hero or something.

I don't understand how a 5 hr dungeon requires more intelligence than a 1 hr one...

And besides, I have nothing against 5 or 15 or 25 hr dungeons, just as long as I am able to a) actually see them and b) get some kind of reward if i only play one hour there.

And in addition, sometimes I put in at least as much time into a game as your average no-lifer. However I want to spend this time playing and having fun, rather than grinding for raid supplies or playing guild politics to get a spot in a raid. Been there done that but now I'm too old for that crap.

I'm sure that the ratio of time played vs time having fun in my raiding guild was approximately 3:1 or even  4:1. I had to f***ing work in order to have a shot at maybe having some fun. Never again. Never!

Originally posted by XImpalerX

Casual = Hardcore Over Time.

   Casual raids once a week. Hardcore raids 5 times a week. Casual is uber in 5 weeks. Hardcore is uber in 1 week. I dont see any reason to complain from either side. Hardcore players are happy getting loot quickly. Casual players are happy to getting loot once a week and then crying over it because the hardcore is in full epics.

   MMO's have always favored players with more time to play the game. it is only the recent uproar of whining from casuals birthed from WoW that this debate stems from.

See this is what pisses me off about raiders..raiders assume they're hardcore because..they raid..and anyone who doesn't raid 5 times a week is casual.     Most true casual players don't want to raid they just want to see the content.  Most true hardcore players don't need to raid they just want to experience the game figure out all the best ways to do things etc, but when a game is based entirely on crappy frakking loot (cough wow) raiders become the only version of Hardcore allowed.   Totally crap way to run a game in my opinion which is why WoW even started renigging and giving casuals and non raid centric people things to do at end game.  

Everyone pays for the content everyone should be able to see said content but the addition of raids ala EQ1 / WoW that require certain gear sets etc to finish and 25+ people in order to do them added content into games that everyone is paying for but only 10 to maybe 15 percent of the population will ever see.    I'm more than thankful that WAR is essentially doing away with such retarded nonsense.   I enjoy playing MMOs alot but the moment the whole "the only thing left to do is PvE raid" comes into play I get immediately turned off to an MMO. 

btw the concept that casuals complain due to time is only a small portion of the casuals and most of them only complained because of the addition of Raids suddenly upping a game that was made for frakking casuals in the first place.    Infact I think most of the blame it on the casual excuses are actually completely fabricated lies since most casuals accept the fact that a hardcore player is always going to have the bigger and badder items & skills long before they do.  

Casuals want the same oppertunties..raids have never been a balanced system between casual & hardcore players oppertunity wise.  You can't deny the fact that casuals can't just log on and make a 24 man pug and make it through a raid..if they could there wouldn't be a balance issue.

Raiders = lemmings.

Originally posted by altairzq

God I hate casual players, they just play for half an hour and want all MMOs changed to their likings.