Originally posted by bobtheblob

Wow did not realise i would get branded a troll.... for saying i support WAR that is strange. This article is a printed one in the mag, the JUNE 2008 edition, with the cover having Empire total war on it.

I dont have the means to scan the article and i believe we are not meant to do that anyway, but this edition only hit the shelves yesterday.

Shoot him Shoooooooot him!!!

Oh wait he was. just. the. messenger.

Yeah I found that article.. it is just a poor piece of journalism in general.  We all know there will be so little NEW news around WAR until guild/open beta, people are going to pounce on every little thing thrown out there...

I mean what can they really tell us in the next 2 months.. That the White Lion will actually have a 'bear' for a pet?  That one of the mastery paths for KotBS will be an AOE glare reflection off their armor? (with knockback!) That the Blackguard is actually a small dark-elf kitten driving around ina really big spiky suit?

'Abysmal' is such a loaded word... I am sure Fox news is hiring writers..

The first quest in any mmo will always be something simple. WoW was go talk to this guy and that guy gave you a kill quest to kill skeletons, boars, or plain striders for horde.  10 minutes? I can spend 10 minutes just looking at stats and all the other little screens that you can look at. SWG  you used to have to wait 10 minutes just for a transport! If 10 minutes out of  years of fun is the downside then by all means I am sold.

As for the starting quest. Well you just invaded the High Elf land and you are attacking them. Obviously the first wave of defenders will be those around which would probably be sailors. The fairies are a question yet unanswered. Maybe they help the high elfs? Maybe they are really a third party viaing for control of the elven lands? Who knows but killing fairies doesn't sound bad, the sound of a fairie getting hit with my halberd is music to my pointy ears.

2 skills? LOL.  Thats part of the growth in an MMO. You gain more skills, power, and stats. Thats like playing a fps and complaining you don't have a better gun right away,

Originally posted by GreenChaos

So when did warhammer online get fairies?

Who knows, but at least we get to smash them to bits

Originally posted by sigurd57

Also I never seen a good mmo that has a great starting area with mindblowing quest and tutorial. Anyone know of any?

Age of Conan is a step above with throwing you into the starting area. The story and pace makes you want to push forward, which is kind of cool. It at least gives you an "illusion" of skills and control because of the combat system, just a slight reinvention of button mashing. :)

Yeah instead of hitting "special melee attack one", now you hit " special melee attack one, then 1, 2 or 3". Just more hastle which is stupid imo. Ultima Online had the best starting areas, as well as EQ1 ( old school). Nothing friendly, just plop you into the world. If you didn't make it, tough luck. Go play hello kitty or something :).

Originally posted by Chiram

Ultima Online had the best starting areas, as well as EQ1 ( old school). Nothing friendly, just plop you into the world. If you didn't make it, tough luck. Go play hello kitty or something :).

Ah good times - when a lvl 3 mob actually could kick your ass, and you were already lost trying to find your corpse.

why do they complain about 2 skills?  EVERY game gives you 1-3 skills at the start.

War! its all about war! and killing numerous Fairys to lvl up. First impressions last.

Well at least the tome of knowledge's first add in is on the Fairy page..

lets hope they fix this up properly.

WoW has a great first hour and then..... well its the same thing for the next 80 days played.. an utter mess

DAoC was an absolute horrid pve game , one of the worst (note I am talking about basic daoc and not expansions which made pve favorable)...... with that said... DAoC was the best game I have ever played in my life. DAoC didnt really START until you got max level. and then it was an absolute dream.

War is like daoc. I myself enjoyed my first 10 minutes of gameplay. the first 15 minutes of the chaos demo are an absolute dream. ork and dwarf demo's were not as much fun. If I get to play the elf vs elf demo i can comment on the elven war but Im trapped by NDA right now on that one at the moment.

but just keep in mind, you are always fighting people in warhammer. as long as you have other players and are fighting against other players it stays fun. pvp is fun, rvr is even MORE fun.

This also got me thinking of my favorite starting zones. Asherons Call will always hold the #1 spot for me. It was my first MMO and I think we will all agree our first always holds a special place.

Other than that The peo beating quest in the orc starting area in WoW was a great quest. Also I think the whole noob area in LOTRO is awesome.  The biggest tihng I like about LOTRO (I wish more games would do it) is after the verry first noob starting instance that takes 5-10 min and explains things well along with the story your in.....after you go through it once you can choose to skip it. Really like that idea. It says "We want the new MMO players to know what they are doing, and as a vet you do it once to entertain us and you can skip it and head to the real world!"

Imagine you have never played and MMO.  Imagine that you have just installed WAR and created your very first character.  You click on the "PLAY" button and sit through the loading screen.  You sip your mountain dew in anticipation.

All of a sudden you are bombarded by a screen full of icons that have confusing tooltips when you mouseover them.  "Bash- 10 AP - A Melee attack that does weapon damage +5" and a dozen other strange abilities.  You take your first 5 steps and are attacked by a monster.  You panic and start hitting buttons having no idea what they do.  You die.

Seriously, would you keep playing?  Probably not.  Games have to start with enemies that aren't very intimidating, don't aggro right away, and they have to start you off with between 1 and 3 skills.  Remember that the first zone in any MMO is not for you.  It is not for the MMO loving veteran.  The first zone in the game is for your uncle that you convinced to play the game with you.  It's all about teaching the first timers.

So 10 "boring" minutes equates a half hour of learning for a newbie.  We've all been there.  Have a heart.

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Originally posted by bobtheblob
yeah i thought that was strange too, but i should of put what he said at the start of the article, he talks baout how the first 10 mins are vital for an MMO in getting the customer to want to pay £8 a month.
However i do agree that he was a bit hasty in his negative comments!

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First ten minutes? Try first 10 levels. You can't judge a MMO by playing it just for 10 minutes. Hell I or any other EVE player wouldn't be playing EVE if we quit after the first 10 minutes. Shit the first 10+ minutes of EVE is spent reading tutorials. Yet EVE has one of the best pvp, skill based worlds around. It is a god amongst pvp MMO games.

Mmk, fine, but the bigger question is how they let the moron write that article.

Because there's no true critique's review system for games so they just say whatever they want in an opinionated fashion.  Some aren't even trained journalists just PC gaming Enthiusists that got lucky and others are journalists with limited experience & knowledge in the MMO forum.

I think the best gamestart I have ever seen in a MMO were the ones we see in Lotro. You are at once thrown into an event where you have to fight or trick your way out of it. And during that you get introduced to how the inferface works.

Then you get into a starter zone where you during the first 5 levels are taught how the game in general works and it ends in a little difficult instance where its to your advantage to actually group up.

After that when you enter the larger world after maybe 1-3 hours of play you feel connected to your character and ready for adventure.

Lotro is a very very well made game, but being an almost non-pvp game it create very little controversy on boards like these.

AoCs intro is amazing too but it has one problem. Its too freaking long. It will be a serious hindrance to just making fun alts when you have to put them through the same 15+ hours of intro plots and quests before you can leave the starter area (otoh it will make it a lot harder for money spammers just to create new spam toons they can use).

As to WaR, I know Mythic from many years of playing DaoC. They REALLY know their stuff and they learn and improve over time in a way I have never ever seen in another game company. What worries me a little is what influence EA can have if the game runs into more trouble.

that's interesting because if that guy played WoW then he would know that the combat only had two skills at the start, making it "boring"...Sorry but this preview is essentially useless,

Dont make excuses for them to just keep the starting area crap! We WANT it to be something new and fun! Dont just pat them on the shoulder and tell them "its ok the starting area sucks, so have the past three MMO's starting areas that were released so its ok". Thats ridiculous that you people just accept it so easily and brush it off as if its nothing. I know for me the beggining of a game does make a huge difference in how I see it! What would you prefer for a begining:

Scenario 1: You have just entered generic land 1, please go to chum with question mark above his head for what to do next, followed by lame go kill 10 chickens then 10 rats then deliver letter to someone tahdah all done.

or

Scenario 2: Being started in the midst of a huge battle between orcs and dwarfs! You just crash landed after being launched out of a cannon into the enemies midsts and a fellow dwarf awakens you and you proceed to take over the Keep whilst bashing skulls in and learning how to play at the same time! All the while havoc is going on all around you and hundreds of dwarfs and orcs are going at it!

If I can think up this scenario in a few minutes dont you think they can come up with something better then Scenario 1!??????

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Originally posted by bobtheblob
Just read a preview in this months Pc Gamer UK and here are a few intersting lines: "Your first 10 minutes in WAr are abysmal. And thats a shame, because there's real potential here. Pur premade character was dumped beside a massive boat on a drab island. There are buzzing fairies ahead, elevn sailors to your left and a path to the right. In front a quest master :" Kill four fairies, Kill six sailors. Go and meet my friend"
Welcome to the grind, stay here forever"
The article then goes on the complain about only having two skills at the start making the combat boring!
However the rest of the article is generally positive, mainly explaining why you should play WAR and so on.
However it makes me wonder what the previewer was looking for when he was preveiwing an mmo?! Anyways what do you guys think of what i have quoted? Does not concern me too much its what i expect from an mmo!

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Gamespy seems to say the opposite.

http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/warhammer-online/873813p1.html