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WAR: Tier One Scenario Tips
MMORPG.com Warhammer Online Correspondent Andrew Bobb writes this look at the tier one scenarios in Mythic's Warhamme Online, providing a few different strategy approaches to the games.
The Realm versus Realm scenarios in Warhammer are one of the highlights of the game. These short player versus player contests run for fifteen minutes or first side to five hundred points accumulated. In Tier One, these points are gained primarily via claiming and holding objectives; though you will still gain points for player kills. In addition, you are personally rewarded with experience and renown points.
The Scenario maps and strategy descriptions detailed here are presented from the Destruction side. However, they easily translate to the Order side as well. The maps have been marked with black lines to show the standard warpath from the Destruction camp through the map. A second red line is used to show the less common path, which is used for the various flanking strategies.
At the Gates of Ekrund scenario you will spawn on a hill in the lower left hand corner of the map. From here you will run across an open field to one of two siege towers on the left or right side of the map. Running up the siege tower ramps will take you to the battlements of the gate fortification. The path straight inside will take you to the first floor of the battlements, which will lead out to the central control point for the map. The side path, left for left tower and right for right tower, will take you up two the second floor where the other control points are.
As you start much closer to the second floor control point on the left, this is essentially the Destruction side control point; just as the one on the right is the Order side control point. The closer path is the most commonly traveled, whereas the path to the right siege tower is used for flanking maneuvers.
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The Khaine's Embrace scenario spawns you in the southeast corner of the map, with just a short run north to a control point. In the middle of the map is the Altar of Khaine, and the second control point in the northwest. There is a path directly across, through the mountain to the north, and around the south of the Altar. Both the direct path and mountain cave path are short and function as direct paths. The southern path around the bottom of the Altar is seldom used, which makes it a good path for flanking or covert objective claiming.
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You will begin in the northeast corner of the map in the Nordenwatch Scenario. A short run southwest will take you to the closest control point. Continuing southwest will lead to the middle point. Heading directly south through an open plain will take you to the Order side control point. This map seems to be the most popular for both sides to make use of flanking strategies.
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There are essentially four strategies that are seen in the Tier 1 scenarios.
WAAAAAGGGGHHH!!!!:
Kill stuff and break things. This is the most commonly seen strategy. This involves the entirety of both sides running toward their control point, then fighting over the middle one. For Khaine's Embrace, the stalemate tends to occur near one of the two points, rather than the middle point present in the other two scenarios. A match involving only this strategy will usually run the full fifteen minutes, with victory based solely on the points accrued for kills on the opposing team.
This battle is like an orc bashing two rocks together to see which will crumble first. Victory is dependent on team members falling into their class roles, as well as the skill of each player. The basic PvP tactic of taking out the healers and/or tanks first, then mopping up the rest, is what this is all about. Another method that works here is to determine which player on the other team is the most skilled, then kill him/her first. If you break the other team's line, you will have the chance to claim the other objectives.
Pincer:
A pincer attack is splitting your force in half and sending them down two paths to surround the enemy and hit them from two sides. It must be well coordinated to work though. If one group is too late, the other will be easily mopped up. As a result this strategy is based on defeating the enemy force, then claiming the objective while they respawn. A pincer attack could give you good access to the enemy's soft targets, but it could also result in absolutely nothing if they react fast. This is probably the rarest of the four tactics seen in Tier One, but will make a much stronger showing with the scenarios you will advance to in Tier Two.
Passive Flank:
This strategy is very similar to the pincer, but based more on objective claiming than combat tactics. The idea here is for a solo player or small group to take the flanking path to the opponent side objective, then claim that objective after the opposing group has left to claim the next one. Anybody can pull this off, but Witch Elves have the advantage due to their stealth ability (at level 10). Both the Chaos Magus and Squig Herder have the advantage of being able to summon an additional distraction. However, this tactic is very risky, as you will most likely die if caught by a player you are at a disadvantage against.
It is disgusting how often this works under the right conditions though. It is best to use a small group for Nordenwatch and Gates of Ekrund, as the additional players will help to speed up the claiming progress. However, a total stalemate at the middle objective will give you enough time to do this solo. If Order is playing aggressively on Khaine's Embrace, this is an easy claim. It only takes five seconds, and, if you get caught after the claim, it is easy to stall for the additional five seconds needed to pass the point of no return to unleash Khaine's Wrath.
Aggressive Flank:
The opposite of the passive flank, the aggressive flank is where the majority of your forces head directly for the Order side objective, leaving a few players to pick up the objective on your side. This is especially useful on Nordenwatch and Gates of Ekrund, as success with this tactic will give your small group time to take the middle point while you lock Order down in combat for their objective. Best case with the aggressive flank is early game domination of the battlefield.
Like the others, there are significant disadvantages as well. The most significant is that you will end up with a backwards WAAAAAGGGGHHH!!! if your opponent does the same thing. Should their full force defeat your large force without taking huge losses, they can follow up by easily defeating your small force and accomplishing the goal you had hoped to achieve.
Given the speed at which scenario battles are paced, frequent adaptation of tactics to meet the opposition provides for the richest and most entertaining battles. If something stops working, move on. A drawn out stalemate going nowhere is not fun. Take the initiative, reach out, and seize victory.
This is all good advice, but with the unstoppable Choppah AoE walls, Dest wins any SC as long as they have at least 3 Choppahs. So best to skip these if you play Order
I'm just stunned that not until 6 months after release they are talking about T1 scenarios. WAR has reached pop. equilibrium and most people are now in T4/City sieges so tips about T1 are kinda a moot point right now. The problem with WAR at lower levels is that Mythic did the LOUSIEST job at class balancing. At release is was the Black Orc and Witch Elves now since update I hear from buddies (since I quit the game a while ago) the Choppa pwns all. This makes for a poor and frustrating game experience and will inevitably lead to Realm population imbalances due to the gross overpower that Destruction possesses. Until Mythic seriously deals with class balance, that game is just not a good game to play.
Peace.
In answer to the guy above me, the Dest side is saying the same thing about the slayer. It seems that the majority of players believe that a "balanced" game is one where every class can be beaten by the class which they are playing.
I also would like to point out that you are ranting about a game which you don't play anymore and have "heard" about from buddies.
I currently play the game. The choppas, especially in a group, are tough to handle. As a Warrior Priest though, I try to surround myself with a group of slayers and watch them kill everything in site while I group heal them. We plow through choppas and drink their tears. To which I would fully expect you to respond with "OMG SLAYER GROUPS WITH A WP IN THEM ARE SO OP, BALANCE THE GAME MYTHIC!!!"
Coming from WOW, this game is the closest thing to balanced I have played yet. I win half the time, I die half the time. That sounds lke balance to me.
In response to the orignal article, I think the author is trying to help out the new players. One of the bad things about this game is that it often relies on you to figure out what you are supposed to do next (Think: that live event Tower scenario). Hopefully this article will help the T1 people get better without all the yelling and cursing.
Oh and T1? For the love of God, stop going after the Tanks first....That little healer in the back is laughing at you.
That pretty much describes any pvp game I've seen (forum wise) that has had classes.... Wait people even complain in skill based games.
Correction this has been the main motivation on forums for balance in EVERY pvp game I've ever played.
Every scenerio, and I mean EVERY, that Dest has at 3 or more choppahs in, they win and win big. Most end up with the order players bottled up at thier starting area.
Slayers and Choppahs are mirrors they say, but you never see walls of slayer AoE taking out clumps of Dest players in seconds.. not sure why. I think it's the fact that Order healers are not much fun to play are very rare, while most Dest groups have gobs of healers backing them up. Another 'imbalance' in favor of Dest.
For the record, though, if you play Order, you will lose most of the SC you play in if there are choppahs present, that is just a fact.
Not sure what cloud you're on, mmodanno. On Skull Throne, the initial wall of Choppas are subsiding. I'm starting to see walls of Slayers. In actuality, on our server, there are still plenty of Order healers. And to be honest, Order is winning on Tier 4 most of the time.
And for the record though, if you play Order or Destruction, it doesn't matter. You win SC by tactics and a balance of classes in your team, not by how many Choppas you have. How do I know this? I'm Destro. And we've had walls of Destro being annihilated by a well-balanced Order team. That is just a fact.
Just about every server is dominated by Order. 1.2 patch + lopsided server transfers/merges = a hot mess. My server finally had an equal population when 2-3 big guilds teamed up and all moved over to this server knowing it would make it ez-mode for Order. We are now outnumbered 2:1-3:1 in most battles now. Don't even try to take a fort as the 15 BWs up stairs all casting RoF will stop you before you even reach the ramp. We used to have big epic fights, not anymore. And with Zone domination, the zerg is rewarded. Now you lose City ranks after a City Siege so you lose access to city dungeons. Say goodbye to ward progression or getting stronger to fight back against the enemy.
Order healers are NOT "rare"! There is always crap loads of Warrior Priests running with Order. They are the best healer in the game and it takes 5+ people to kill one. I also see lots of Archmages and Rune Priests as well so how are Order healers rare? For the record though, if you play Destro, you will lose most of the SC/Keep/Forts you play in if there are BWs present which is always the case as they are the best ranged class in the game. Order also has so much more Ranged DPS then Destro so Choppas mean nothing when they are killed by BWs 75 feet away. "That is just a fact".
I play both sides Desc and order and let me tell you i hate seeing a group of choppas or slayers running together with a healer behind them. The key to this game really is tatics and i'm not talking just run around like a crazied drooling monster. I'm talking about running in a group (or pack which ever you prefer to call yourselves) and working as a team. I have seen Order kicking ass with no slayers in the group what so ever and same with desc but i have also seen a full wipe simply because people dont want to work together and would rather run off to say like the light house (if your desc) or the barricks instead of taking and HOLDING fort in EVERY sceniro there is a man objective or something to hold on to, if you work as a team your going to win a lot faster then if its every man or woman for themselves.
Exactly, everybody wants to single-handedly take out 5 people at once or something. You have to work together in WAR for the most part.
Exactly, everybody wants to single-handedly take out 5 people at once or something. You have to work together in WAR for the most part.
Well, if it was that simple then you would figure pug scenarios would let the douche "hero" die and carry on as a group for the rest of the scenario. But right behind the "hero" there's usually 3 or 4 other people with little or no care for tactics or team play. Assuming you started 12 v 12, 5 players down against any decent Destruction group and you're dead. Perhaps this phenomenon is less so with guild RvR ... but in PUGs Destruction simply overpowers Order (they have 2 mega tanks Black Orcs and Choppas .. and both can deal and take a boatload of dmg) if they have couple decent shammans behind them and it's game over. Also when I say "unbalanced" I don't mean ... that a witch hunter should beat a choppa, and so forth. What I mean is: Given a group of say 4 choppas and a good healer will beat any group that Order could come up with -- tactics or not.
Peace.
Well, if it was that simple then you would figure pug scenarios would let the douche "hero" die and carry on as a group for the rest of the scenario. But right behind the "hero" there's usually 3 or 4 other people with little or no care for tactics or team play. Assuming you started 12 v 12, 5 players down against any decent Destruction group and you're dead. Perhaps this phenomenon is less so with guild RvR ... but in PUGs Destruction simply overpowers Order (they have 2 mega tanks Black Orcs and Choppas .. and both can deal and take a boatload of dmg) if they have couple decent shammans behind them and it's game over. Also when I say "unbalanced" I don't mean ... that a witch hunter should beat a choppa, and so forth. What I mean is: Given a group of say 4 choppas and a good healer will beat any group that Order could come up with -- tactics or not.
Peace.
Okay is it clearly obvious you have never played Destruction. Did you know that the Ironbreaker is the best tank in the game and its on the ORDER side?! IB and KoTBS are both great tanks. Stop acting like Order doesn't have any good classes! Go play a Destro alt up to T4 and see how it is. I have played 2 order toons to 40 and 2 destro toons to 40. I have played on both sides. BOs were nerfed big time, Ironbreakers are much better and do more damage. And secondly, Choppas aren't tanks. They are a melee DPS class so they are supposed to dish out DPS. A few warrior priests, engineers and bright wizards will stop anything Destro has to offer. You seem to forget that for a choppa to do anything it has to be right next to you. That doesnt happen often because order has SO MUCH MORE ranged dps. It sounds like you have never played Destro as you've never had to deal with 3 WPs, and 5 BWs taking our your whole warband.
Ranged DPS and AOEs own in this game. Most MDPS players are not having fun because they are killed before they even get in melee range by all the ranged DPS Order has. Over 11 of the Choppas skills are never on for more then a couple seconds because of the WP tactic called cleansing power. I will let this chart explain everything. This graph shows just how overpowered this 1 tactic is and why every WP has it slotted. img297.imageshack.us/img297/9835/cleansingpowerinfograph.gif
AoEs and cleansing power are too powerful, that is why they are being reduced in power in the next patch.