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WAR: Adding the Choppa and the Slayer
Mythic Entertainment announced today that as a part of their live expansion, Call to Arms, the two remaining careers will be added to the game, the Orc Choppa and the Dwarf Slayer. Yesterday, MMORPG.com's Jon Wood spoke with Mythic's Jeff Hickman about the new careers.
Yesterday, I had the opportunity to sit down to talk with Jeff Hickman, Executive producer of Mythic Entertainment’s Warhammer Online to talk about a number of announcements concerning, among other things, new classes, an appropriately violent Valentine’s Day event, a new dungeon, and something that Mythic is calling a “Live Expansion“. In this article, we will focus our efforts on the introduction of the two new careers:
Two New Careers
Looking back over the original design ideas for Warhammer Online, the developers had planned for each race to have four careers associated with it. Before launch though, we learned that four of those careers had been cut and would wait until they were completed before being implemented into the game. Those four careers were: Empire Knight of the Blazing Sun, Dark Elf Blackguard, Orc Choppa and Dwarf Hammerer.
Since launch, the fourths for both Empire and the Dark Elves have launched and been successfully integrated into the game. Today, we learned that the Greenskins and Dwarves will have their day in March, but there’s a bit of a catch. Instead of the Hammerer, Dwarf fans will be treated to another Melee DPS class, The Slayer.
I asked Jeff about the combat conventions for the two careers and he told me that in fact, the two classes are mirrors of one another in terms of their mechanics.
“They are Melee DPS guys, they’re close-in fighters, they’re both dual wielding classes and both of them are berserkers. They’re both raging lunatics on the battlefield in general and so when you look at both the Choppa and the Slayer they have a mechanic called Berzerk. (right now, we may change what we call that but it’s generally what you think it is). If you think of it like an RPM meter, it builds up in the green and goes into the red. As the Slayer and the Choppa go into combat this RPM / Berserk Meter just goes up really fast. As it goes up, it unlocks different abilities that burn the berzerk rage. As a player, you can decide to pop your berserk rage up and burn it off or about halfway up on the meter, you can go into the red. The red is ’true berzerk’, you literally go crazy and you start to do more and more damage but you’re also taking more damage. Your defenses go by the wayside and your offences come to the fore. It becomes a choice of play styles. Do you keep your berserk rage in the green and pop berzerk abilities constantly, or do you take it into the red, knowing that you’re going to be doing more damage at that point but that you’re going to be weaker in some cases.”
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The Orc Choppa
The Orc Choppa made its first appearance in the game’s Beta Testing phase, but was deemed simply unfinished by the game’s developers and removed before launch. This had the interesting effect of leaving the Greenskin race, once assumed to be the most probable candidate for over-played race, with only one of its signature Orcs to represent the bloodthirsty ranks, supplemented by two still neat, but notably less dripping in cool golbin supporters. Many players, who had been looking forward to causing havoc with their Choppas, were disappointed by the news.
The addition of the damage-dealing Choppa will add a much-needed Melee DPS class to the Greenskin retinue.
“The Choppa was always our plan,” Hickman said. “It’s just a very cool feeling, very savage feeling kind of berserk Orc. Even in beta when we were playing him two years ago, he felt cool.”
So, what has changed between when the decision was made to not include the Choppa at launch and now?
“The biggest change, and it’s pretty large: We wanted to change him to make his mechanic better. The Choppa mechanic in beta was pretty raw and uncooked and we weren’t really satisfied with it. At the same time, we wanted to keep the feel of it. There was something about him and his fast attacks…. That was very appealing to a lot of players. We wanted to change one, but keep the other and I think we’ve achieved that. If you look at what we’ve done. We’ve brought him in line with how the Slayer plays so that’s mirrored a little bit. We’ve refined his mechanic so he feels really cool and we’ve been able to keep that really over the top, savage appearance… and I think he’s really going to be liked by the Destruction players.”
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The Dwarf Slayer
There has been speculation about this decision for weeks now. Bloggers have been receiving strange gifts in the mail, with all signs pointing to the addition of the Slayer as the fourth Dwarf career.
For those not at all familiar with Warhammer Dwarf lore: A Dwarf Slayer is a dwarf who is somehow dishonoured and seeks a death in glorious battle. It’s not suicide per-se, as the Slayer will continually throw himself into battle after battle, doing his best to defeat each enemy, but ultimately seeking a glorious death in combat.
First, I asked how Mythic planned to deal with a career whose ultimate goal is honourable death in a game where, for all intents and purposes, characters never die. How does that convention translate?
“That is the ultimate bend of the lore,” he answered, “because technically in the game you can’t ever die. Now, if you want to look at one thing and say we said ‘We’re just going to ignore that’, just like we ignored other people not dying permanently because we just can’t help but do that. No one wants to die permanently.”
So, what happened to the Hammerer?
“We always talked about doing a slayer,” Hickman began, “and we had lots of difficulties and concerns about how we can meet the lore, what we could do. It was actually ultimately one of the things that caused us to pull back on the Hammerer. We were never really satisfied with what we had with the Hammerer. We always wanted him to be a Slayer but because of the issues we had, we just couldn’t do it. Once we pulled back and looked at it again… We said, ‘you know, we’ve got to approach this with Games Workshop again, we’ve got to look at the lore again, we’ve got to dig deep because it’s the right thing to do for the game.”
While they bent the rules a little bit with the lore, they feel that they have worked out a good way to implement it and worked ways around all of the other things.
These new classes are set to roll out some time in March after an event similar to the one that introduced the Knight and the Blackguard, allowing early access to those who earn it. The event is going to be called Bitter Rivals and will include a new Scenario: The Twisting Tower.
So with NO CLASS BALANCE WHAT-SO-EVER in this game after all this time... They decide to roll out ANOTHER 2 classes, WITHOUT BALANCING KNNIGHT OF THE BLAZING SUN OR THE BLACK GUARD
on top of that, no personal RvR freedom, cause now you'll just get kicked out.
Just like DAoC, this game has gone from good to bad....and i spent all those months in closed beta for them to ruin the game I love.
Oh HELL Yes. Slayer Here i come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Mythic Entertainment announced today that as a part of their live expansion, Call to Arms,"
er....where was this expansion accounced?? There is nothing about it on the European WAR website, unless they are a bit behind updating thier news??
Er this is actually good news - each race now has the full complement of classes. These two classes are apparently very similar so relative to each other they are going to be pretty balanced. Also, it's not like Order will be able to QQ that Destro have this kind of melee DPS when they have it too.
I'm looking forward to the Choppa as it matches my gung ho, suicidal type of gameplay. It will be interesting to see how squishy they are and how powerful compared to Witch Elves and if they'll be the new focus fire target.
Go to the US site or Warhammer Alliance. The EU site has a nice story about the Slayer.
I also wonder if they have had enough time to balance these new classes so closely after adding the other 2. New classes that are free are always cool, but I wonder how well they will work. Has there been any other game that added 4 classes free after release?
- I know people will say they were suppose to be in at launch, but the fact is they weren't. Comparatively, wow said they would add more classes and it's taken them years to add death knight.
Another issue would be if they don't add any more character slots. Maybe at the very least 1 more slot since there are 2 new per side. I had a full char page and that was before they added the the last 2. I like to try all the different classes but adding 4 new classes without adding slots is just lame imo.
Just what the game needs...... more watered down classes to add to the bland, generic collection they already have. World of Warcraft is the reason why less is more because they made each class fun and unique and you can always find one that is special to you. I spent all my time in WAR working out that none of the classes are interesting because they're all watered down into archetypes so you end up having 3 of the same thing per side with only a few specials each, instead of one and having it with more specials to choose from and more interesting to play. So I just feel like classes were so watered down they lost their idenity.
That is WAR all over though, it lacks soul, personality and just comes off as a generic Warcraft. I don't care if Warhammer came first because Warcraft does it better.
Finally, the dwarf slayer, just the thing to get me resub to war. (I'm serious here, was thinking for a while to resub, but the lack of classes that suited me on order side kinda kept me from playing.. I was waiting for the dwarf hammerer, but the dwarf slayer is a dream coming true for me)
I had a feeling Hammerers were getting the axe so the more desirable Slayers could be put in. When they are finally added, i'm definately going to reactivate my account to try 'em out. Hopefully by then many of the games problems will have been worked out as well.
Yes!!!! This is great news indeed! I also went to the Warhammer site and they have a outstanding line up of live events, added content, new rvr realms coming in the next few months. One per month.
Also a new free trial for everyone.
It amuses me to see the very first post on this topic is a ...well whatever, bashing the game as it moves forward with a large fanbase behind it.
And the WoW kid amuses aswell, I am glad they stay in WoW and leave Warhammer to the fans.
Back to topic,
Good news indeed!
Ok, so I'll look at the game again in June, but I am not playing paid beta anymore.
....but if you look at the game again in June thats exactly what you will be doing as the game still isnt going to be at a stage of completion by then. Missing cities?
I totally agree with you but the Warhammer fans love the watered down classes. For some reason they find them exciting even though they are extremely bland. To more bland classes will fit in nice and snug with all the others. Besides Mythic cant exactly add something interesting to the game now can they. I mean if they did it would stand out like a sore thumb lol
So many complainers...Why not move on to some other game if you obviously aren't satisfied with Warhammer? Mythic finally adding the last 2 classes is good news. I'm sure once all classes are in the game they can then evaluate and balance everything accordingly.
....but if you look at the game again in June thats exactly what you will be doing as the game still isnt going to be at a stage of completion by then. Missing cities?
Trolling several threads I notice.
This is cool and all but just like the Knight and Blackguard these classes should have been in at launch!
I am impressed and soon playing a choppa (yah!)! Probably mostly an nice marketing thing with the postcards and events, but that is much stuff. Hopefully the needed patches for RvR are coming as well.
And although I don't like Paul I really laughed by the nice cutting of the new Slayer/Choppa videoblog.
i will definetly play a slayer if I resub to WAR... I am just waiting to see if aion comes out if it doesnt before summer i will resub and re-roll a slayer... finally a DPS for order without pets ( white lions ) and with a little bit of survavibility ( witch hunter )
Are you kidding? These people would rather spend time complining about games instead of finding one that suits them, playing it, and STFU.
These are the same people that shoot every new game up to #1 on the chart until their patheitc little ADD-ridden brains find some other shiny object to latch onto. Ignore them, their opinions count for NOTHING.
Cool news. I really liked the event surrounding the addition of the last 2 classes. Tier 1 scenarios and RVR gets more active as well.
Now i'm not slamming T1, its just that you spend a shorter amount of time there.. I've seen no let down in T2 and T3.
Are you kidding? These people would rather spend time complining about games instead of finding one that suits them, playing it, and STFU.
These are the same people that shoot every new game up to #1 on the chart until their patheitc little ADD-ridden brains find some other shiny object to latch onto. Ignore them, their opinions count for NOTHING.
Gotta agree as well.. Its the same WoW haters / cry babys..Hell, I still play WoW on occasion and I find it amusing players from WoW have time to post on a game they dont even play... I dont hit the forums as hard as I used to since I got games to occupy my time, so apparently these people are gameless at the moment and dont have a backup hobby.
Well, despite their reasons why they troll WAR forums. Look at their names, its the same damn people from last year still posting the usual, why I hate WARHAMMER... They want to keep posting their piece and negative propaganda on WAR.. what are their true intentions... I think what they want to say is
I TOLD YOU SO...
If they are'nt having fun in WAR, then you shouldnt either. If you like WAR, you must be insane. WAR is a disgrace to the MMORPG world.. This is what I call PURE ASS HATE!
Yeah I get it, were on a forum, but shit, to still complain about a game you no longer play, move on.. Its as simple as that. But unfortunately they got time to post on the WAR forums because their current game isnt stimulating them anymore despite how great they claim their game is and they are just being Assholes to WAR players..
Balance??? I been playing MMOs since UO and everyone screams nerf when they die to another player. People need to learn tactics, learn your class and how they work in RvR. I play a Magus and I get owned alot in 1vs1, but put me with a grp that will distract the fight and I will sneak to the side and kill most of the grp with AoE DoTs. Learn your role.
As far as the classes being "watered" down they were taken out before launch to make sure they were ready for the game instead of releasing broken classes. I can't wait to play Me Choppa
In WoW i can pick a priest and play 3 different roles and the spells and skills are so much fun to use, like Shadow Priest looks badass. However you don't have any of that in WAR or EQ2 and in WAR the particle effects look bad, just do the horrible /special which are all just bad. In WAR and EQ2 you had a handful of classes in each archetypes where you played one role so you only ever did one thing all the time and there was no fun spells and that so I found it boring. You arn't allowed to switch classes in each archetype...... i dunno I just wish'd they merged the archetypes together cause less is more.
You dont know classes in EQ2.
A berzerker can be the main tank of a raid or a top dps.
A Swashbukcler can be a tier 1 DPS, a support debuffer class or a light tank.
A fury (as the wow priest) can have 3 different roles or more.
Necro and Conj have multiple roles aswell... you can even betray to another class in EQ2...
I can say the same about the chosen in War (MT, Buffer Ot, or just pure DPS), most War healers are NOT pure healers and some can be prettty good DPsers, a Dok can even act as a light tank.
You are deep into WoW, so you know all you can do with WoW classes, you are not deep into EQ2 and War, so I understand your misconceptions.
WoW spell and effects are simple than War and much, much, more simple than Everquest 2 effects, wich one you prefer is a matter of opinion.
I have nothing against the fact you really like WoW John, but it seems you dont know much about War (or just love too much WoW to enjoy it) and know absolute nothing about Everquest 2.
About what look "bad ass" or not, it is just a matter of Opinion (again).
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What I don't understand is why WAR chooses to further alienate players that want the game to succeed as it was advertised and continue to to look the other way on legitimate problems by adding more classes that STILL need balancing. Isn't that what testing is for?
I guess they are hoping that the new classes will distract the players from what really needs fixing such as,bugs,exploits, ORvR and scenario balance all need attention ASAP for this game to continue to hold subs, not just more characters to distract them from the problems.
Hate to break your spirits there Mr. Zoid, but this is'nt WoW, its WAR there laddie.. I could care less what WoW has over WAR, but you seem to think EQ2 and WAR is WoW. If you are doing a comparison though with MMO's EQ2 has way more PvE content than WoW and WAR has more PvP concepts than WoW. All WoW has is a nice structure for PvE gear scripted raiding system <rinse and repeat> and a new user friendly system. There is nothing difficult about WoW which to me makes it less challenging.
yes its true wow does offer more option with each class but theres also so terrible imbalances in those classes which have nothing to do with how good or bad the player is . i retrurned for the lich king and after a few weeks of endgame i realised how broken warcraft pvpv is at the moment . thats not to say it ll not be like that forever but if like me you enjoy the pvp side of the game warcraft is quite simply unplayable at the momnet . which is the reason i ve returned to warhammer for a second time . ok its maybe not got the depth of wow in lots of respects but it is far more accessable and a lot more fun than the mess wow has become . i dont ever see warhammer being any more than a niche game but its a decent niche game . of course if you prefer to do the same instance in warcraft over and over again or dp the same daily quests to get some item that will be obsolete in a year or two or head into a battleground ( or wintersgrasp if you can stand the 20 second lag )where your likely to last only a few seconds against a rogue,paladon or deathknight then warcraft is the game for you .
i ve played wow on and off for 4 years now i ve never seen it in such a bad state pvp wise .
It's true WAR doesn't have the depth that WoW has, but if you will recall, WoW wasn't always so deep. I started playing at launch and I remember when the endgame was raiding UBRS, and PVP was if you happened to see an opposing faction member who was flagged. WAR is only a few months old, it needs time to get it's legs underneath it.
Introducing the slayer and choppa is a great idea. Going to be alot of get to the choppa jokes though =).
My question is what arch type is a slayer because it is different from a choppa in that a choppa has more armor. It seems to be a melee, low armor and high dps. Are they counterparts to each other or are they counter parts to other destro and order toons?
I just hate most of the ppl in this forumfor the way they give arguments.Most of their post dosen't make any sense...."yes its true wow does offer more option"- What really ?Are you making a commercial or somthing mate?!
"It's true WAR doesn't have the depth that WoW has, but if you will recall, WoW wasn't always so deep."????
PLease guys and some of lthe others ppl.... (Zoid)-stop playing games for couple of weeks (I do it too sometimes when i start talking nonsense ).I won't start complaining about Wow(PVE>PVP game) and
WAR (PVP>=PVE game)they are different and DEAL WITH THAT .
I'm not sure that some of you will understand ,this is not abuse against you ppl.It's just bizzar I fill like someone post a comment and then right after this he log with other acc and post the same thing again ... What were you thinking O_o guys, do you actually read the answers of the gamers ?!They were 3-4 post saying the same thing over and over again : Wow is great WAR sucks;WAR sucks WOW is great and etc ......Sh** make them 10000 for the past 6 months
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BTW Ubral great reply !
I registered for these forums because of this thread.
I can't believe how many negative nancies are trolling around looking for places to bash WAR. If you people don't still play WAR, maybe you don't realize the amount of work that has been put into this game since launch. It's a work in progress, constantly being updated and improved. This game has been out for 4 months and so many of you are whining about how its not on the same level as WoW. Why? How many years does WoW have under its belt? Not to mention you're compairing a pve game to a pvp game.
For those of you who crying about the current classes not being balanced.. do you get rolled alot? Do you solo queue and only run with pugs in rvr? I've been playing since launch, I have 3 characters at lvl 40, and 2 in the mid 20's. I play destruction, and I don't see this problem. This game is based on group combat, not dueling. Every class has a role, and an advantage over another class. Our server is pretty balanced, there has only been one successful fortress sack and it wasn't destruction who did it. Learn to play as a team, learn your classes role, and for cryin out loud get on vent with the people you're playing with. If you're still dieing constantly and complaining of things not being balanced, just admit that you suck and find a new game.
On to the topic of character depth and versatility. Every class has 3 mastery paths and each allows the player to play their character a little differently. You're not going to turn a healing-archtype class into a tank, but there is versatility. Try playing a class or 2 up to level 40 and checking out the different paths, you might be surprised.
Warhammer Online is growing by leaps and bounds in a very short amount of time. It has a very strong, very dedicated fan base. A lot of us spend so much time playing and enjoying this game, that we don't have time to come to every forum and explain how the game works. I haven't met a single person in game who is complaining about the release of more classes. It has been quite the opposite reaction. The number 1 reason I see people leaving WAR, is because they've finished Lost Vale and the rvr is so balanced that we can't see a city attack in the near future on either side. The introduction of this new Darkness Falls type rvr dungeon is just what many of us have been waiting for.
WAR may never achieve the sheer number of subscribers as WoW, but I say it's for the better. I played WoW for several years and the fan base didn't impress me at all (just look at 1/2 the posts on this thread to see what I'm talking about). Almost everyone I know in WAR is age 21-50, we don't have to deal with as much immaturity.. we can curse and have adult conversations without people crying and reporting us. I'm in for the long haul, this game is only getting better.
WAAAAAAAAGH!!!
YES! The Choppa is back! I might have to leave DAoC again to give WAR another try. Only reason I really left WAR in the first place was because I was disappointed that there wasn't any Choppa to go hack little dorfs into littler pieces
As to Murt above me, yeah what you say is true, but that's what you get when you have 12 year olds playing games with death involved (thanks WoW). I don't mind dying at all, that's why I wanted to be a Choppa ever since this game was announced. Who cares about dying if I take 3 or 4 of you with me...I can see the crybabies now though. OMG choppa is imba! The fact is choppa is supposed to be imba, it's offensive powerhouse, not some shield toting pansy. It should be the focus fire of all groups
I thought it was common sense to kill the highest damage/lowest defense person first, except maybe for a healer...
Good for them (Mythic). Kudos. Too little, too late to save my sub but I am sure a lot of folks will love these.
There's nothing wrong with the balancing in WAR...just because you get pawned it's not a balance issue...
And on the note of the rvr freedom it's not a big deal imho, the guys who can't enter the fortressfight get less lag and can fight the reinforcements by the zone border, as somone always should be doing anyhow...
Hopfully the slayer will be like the We is to destruction.
The choppa will probly feel like the WHunter id hope........
WAR's appeal to me is the pvp and lack of a real MMO time sink. I doubt there's many people here playing WAR who hasnt played or at least tryed WOW. I myself am having a good time playing WAR. As my main I have a level 40 Shadow Warrior with 43 renown.
I think WOW in an incredible game, and I had a real blast playing the game. Only Ultima Online kept my attention longer than WOW in which I played from launch till 06 or for two years. But like most games sometimes we get burnt out on the game. As much as I love WOW and think its a great game, I personally am burnt out on it. I dont think thats that hard to understand.
WAR provides a nice casual outlet on MMO's... Personally these days I thought I was done with MMO's because of the massive time sink they require. In WAR I can log in and within 5 minutes be either pvping in a scenerio or in a massive RvR battle. Its perfect for me. Once I got out of college and got working, I find that I just dont have the time to spend 20+ hours a week playing MMO's. The time it takes to organize a raid and get anything going in WOW requires much more time than in WAR. And thats a big positive for me
Is it perfect? Nope... But for us casual gamers we hope that they can fix the bugs and keep adding content because we cant go back to hardcore time sink games, and at the moment theres not many you can progress as fast as in WAR and just log in and start playing the fun stuff without requiring bashing 50,000 rats first to compete. I think its awesome that you can create a level 1 character and pop right into a pvp scenerio and actually get experience from it.
Good to hear that all the classes will be in.
Now lets hope the other cities will be in before Xmas '09 and were golden.
I'm also glad they are finally adding these classes.
To the contrary of what some people seem to think, adding these new classes means they can now focus on balancing the game as a whole, and focusing on other things. Not the other way around.
Trying to balance the game fully with 2 classes still missing would be a disaster.
To those still interested enough in the game to flame it, but not enough to actually play it, take a step back, and actually give it some time to develope before you decide to go back and judge it some more. WoW wasnt' built in a day either, and they are better funded / staffed.
edit: Also, about the classes being bland, while it is most definitely a matter of opinion, it really depends on how you look at the classes and which classes you look at.
For example, the Bright Wizard / Sorcerer mirrors are very much like the mage class from WoW fractured into 2 classes. The BW being quite similar to a pyromage, the Sorc similar to a frost mage (both in spell types, and functionality). One focusing more on DPS, the other on more CC. Using this example, some might think this makes the classes more bland / watered down, as you need to play 2 classes to get the same experience as 1 mage from WoW. However, conversly, one might also see it as having even more customization than what WoW offers from the mage, since within each focus you have multiple masteries which further micro manage the class.
Other classes, like the WE / WH, are almost identical to their WoW counterparts, and some (like the Archmage / engineer) can play multiple different rolls not common to their archetype. Archmage (healer, support dps, debuff / support) Engineer (DD / spiker, AoE / pressure, Disruption / Support). These, I think it's much harder to argue, are equal if not more diverse than similar classes from WoW.
While it's also true that there are some classes / masteries (especially on Order) that still need to be looked at / re-evaluated, stating that they are all bland is not as much a product of the game as it is the beholder.
They will feel like their own classes, and they will feel like each other, I assume, not like any of the classes currently available. They did refer to the Slayers as "the counter" to the Choppas, in the newsletter.
Trolling several threads I notice.
Several? I'm trolling a hell of a lot more than that
Trolling several threads I notice.
Several? I'm trolling a hell of a lot more than that
Geez, you really need to get a hobby, or some IRL friends.
Several? I'm trolling a hell of a lot more than that
Geez, you really need to get a hobby, or some IRL friends.
I have those too. I can multi-task
As I read things Choppa & Slayer are going to be the most "mirror like" to each other classes in the game, they have the exact same mechanic, are both dual-wield & 2hander capable Medium Armor classes & their dps will start off as about where a Marauder's/White Lion's is & as they increase in rage/berserk will reach close to a Witch Elf/Witch Hunter's but not quite match it.
As they increase in rage/berserk they will become increasingly softer targets, 50% rage/berserk was described as the point after which they increasingly become more vulnerable.
They will be classes that are easier to play than most others, but players will have to choose to either "play it safe" & rage-dump to not become too vulnerable to damage, or go truly Berserk & dish out serious pain but accept higher & higher risk for it.
I think they will prove to be a very enjoyable class to play, but they wont come with "IWIN" buttons, managing the build up on rage/berserk to best suit the situation giving them some depth.
Several? I'm trolling a hell of a lot more than that
Geez, you really need to get a hobby, or some IRL friends.
I have those too. I can multi-task
You're terrible at trolling, want me to show you how it's done there sport? Trolls don't say they are trolling or that they are trolls first of all.
My thoughts exactly. Don't forget the ongoing bugs and exploits. I wish they would have fixed the game they sold me BEFORE adding new problems to fix. Account..... canceled.