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Warhammer Online: Mark Jacobs on the IP, Marketing and EA
MMORPG.com Managing Editor Jon Wood had the opportunity to speak with Mythic Entertainment boss Mark Jacobs about the Warhammer IP, Marketing and EA.
Today, we continue with Part Two of my interview with Mythic Entertainment VP and GM Mark Jacobs. In this part of the article, we focus in on working with the Warhammer IP, Mythic Entertainment’s relationship with EA and more!
When I first asked Jacobs about Mythic’s lack of experience handling a major IP like Warhammer Online, I was reminded that this isn’t Mythic’s first kick at the IP can. I was quickly reminded that while it’s the first time that they have applied it to a massive scale MMORPG, Mythic has worked with titles like Aliens, Godzilla and Starship Troopers and others in the past and that they do have experience with IPs.
Speaking directly to the experience working with the Warhammer IP, Jacobs credits the team’s strong familiarity with the franchise in terms of making it easier to develop. The third point that Mark made revolved around what he describes as the strong relationship with Games Workshop (the owners of the Warhammer IP) that the studio had even prior to getting the license.
As a result of these things, Jacobs tells us that they had the advantage of being able to hire a number of former Games Workshop employees, including the wacky face of WAR Paul Barnett and a number of others.
“You look at 25 years worth of glory,” Mark said, referring to the Warhammer franchise. “Worth of great stuff, and you get to go ‘oh I like this, or I like this, but can we change that…’ That just makes your life easier, not harder. In the end though, the biggest difference between GW and every other IP holder I’ve ever worked with is when I asked GW a question, ‘Which is more important: for us to do a great game, or for us to do a great game based on Warhammer?’ They said, ‘Make a great game,’ and that’s the answer I wanted because what they wanted more than anything else was a great game, and if that meant making some changes, or coming up with the Age of Reckoning, for example, to do the things that we could do in this game… That’s what was important to them. Make a great game, change what you need to… within reason.”
From there, we went on to talk about some examples of what “within reason” meant in terms of Mythic’s freedom to play with the license. Mark gave me the example of no greenskin females. They just don’t exist in the realm of Warhammer, but he tells me that there were very few of these restrictions.
“I’ve loved it,” he said when describing working with Games Workshop. “It’s been an absolutely wonderful experience.”
Changing tracks just a little bit, we moved on to talking a little bit about marketing. It was a thread on the forums that prompted me to ask this question and I was interested to hear the answer. Blizzard’s World of Warcraft seems to saturate television and other media with commercials for their game while we have yet to see any form of Warhammer Online television spot.
“You haven’t yet,” Jacobs answered slyly and then referencing the fact that we didn’t see TV spots for WoW until it was already successful.
This simple question led me into another slightly more complicated question. I asked Mark how he felt that Warhammer right out of the gate has to compete with a World of Warcraft that already has four years under its belt. This is a common thread on forums where the two are compared with Warhammer fans often pointing to the age difference between the two as a argument for the new game.
“I don’t mind us being held up to WoW four years in because I expect that,” he answered easily. “You have to. We’re competing against the game today, not the game as it was at launch. That’s just fair. You can’t go into the space and whine that you have to compete with them. That goes with the territory.”
Going back to the television commercials, he said that, “WoW earned the right to have all of those commercials and everything done on it. They got the subs, they had the money, they have the right.” He told me that he wasn’t going to go to EA and have a tantrum looking for more advertising money. That was just silly when you could market the game through other means.
“So far,” he said,, “I think we’re doing just fine.”
The last thing that I wanted to talk to Mark about before letting him go back to launching his game was the real relationship between Mythic and Electronic Arts. I remember when the announcement was made over two years ago and many predicted that EA (admittedly because of a lousy previous track record) would spell the end of both Mythic Entertainment and of course their Warhammer Online project.
I’m not saying that those people were out of line. In fact, I was one of those people who privately thought that there was no way that the EA merger could have been a good thing for either the company or the game. So, what did Mark have to say about the relationship?
He started by recounting a number of the popular complaints about the move, forecasting doom and gloom:
“Twenty Eight months later, what has happened?” he began. “We’re releasing a great game. We were able to delay the game a couple of times because we had EA behind us going ‘okay, we understand your reasons… go for it.’”
“We have the best distribution system in North America and Europe supporting us,” he continued. “We’ve had the support of EA in their marketing and sales distribution. Human Resources that have helped us bring more people into Mythic. We’ve had help from them when we outsourced some of the art… So it is now twenty eight months later and look where we are. We are a more polished game with a distribution system. Being part of EA meant we didn’t have to scrape like we did back in the Camelot days for every server. If I can justify why we need it, then EA is going to go, ‘Okay, makes sense.’”
“Back when we were independent, it was’ gee, what else should I sign away in order to get those servers? Can I give you another pint of blood?’ I mean, it was really that bad back in those days. So 28 months out, because we’re a part of EA, it’s made a lot of things easier and better.”
Next, we talked about the fact that many people thought that EA wouldn’t be able to resist meddling in the game design for WAR. Mark told me that this wasn’t the case at all. He also pointed out that the massive price hikes that many suggested would be inevitable with an EA takeover never actually materialized.
In terms of input, the developers were never given any directives from the parent company in terms of what should or shouldn’t be in the game. They might have given suggestions, but they were always just that, suggestions. This shouldn’t be confused with “suggestions” that come from parent companies, as Mark was very specific about the fact that they were always free to take or leave suggestions from EA. This practice extended into payment models, and more so that:
“In the end, “Jacobs said, “we got to make the game that we wanted. Not that game that EA wanted, not the game that Blizzard wanted, it’s the game that we wanted. That’s what it is. One of the criticisms that’s always been heaped on all of the publishers versus the developers who tend to at times come out smelling a little bit better is that publishers can run a game out before it’s done… We got two delays out of it with EA where we said, ‘we need to delay it again’. EA didn’t rush us out the door. They could have said to us in June, ‘no guys, you’ve gotta ship it, patch it afterwards.’ They didn’t. And I don’t mean that I threatened so they didn’t, they never said that.”
Mark credits a very open philosophy at Mythic when it comes to keeping EA involved and up to date with the production. The more that Mythic (who is on the east coast) can keep west-coast based EA in the loop, the better things are going to be.
In the end, it seems as though folks who worried that EA’s takeover of Mythic would mean the end of Warhammer worried needlessly now that Warhammer has made it through a relatively successful launch. In terms of the future, Jacobs told us that we should expect much more out of the Warhammer team (they plan to staff up on the project, not down should the game succeed) and from Mythic Entertainment. While Mark tells us that they don’t have anything new in development just yet, he did say that we shouldn’t expect to have seen the last from Mythic.
Do I smell an Imperator revival? Time will tell.
I'm proud to say that I am and have never been a naysayer of EA or Mythic. I never had a problem with EA's decisions nor Mythics. I'm glad things ended up going good for both companies.
Before Mythic starts on anything new. Even in WAR.
I would like them to patch in Knight of the Blazing Sun and The Hammerer on Order side to bring the factions back in balance (and ofcourse you will have to patch in the cut Destro classes too).
Then after that the 4 Capital Cities that were cut.
When that's done. Then we can talk about new content ;)
"Starship Toppers"? lol
How they can talk about good marketing, when Mythic dont interested about their domain. It's easy to check that blizzard has all good domain names (diablo, starcraft , worldofwarcraft with all extension .com, .eu, .de). Mythic wasn't owner of the war-europe.com (wow-europe.com - blizzard), becouse the owner is GOA (company partner, but in critical situation they can stop work together (so what with domain name in that situation). The same on warhammeronline.eu (not Mythic/EA, even GOA owner), when worldofwarcraft.eu is blizzards.
So, what i whant to say is that Mythic dont't have (yet) harmonius team to entry on high level marketing like TV, while they dont focus on common marketings business (like example domain names).
What I find disturbing is Mythic's complete inability to articulate what customers can expect from WAR next. I know that specifics aren't going to be given, but Mark and the rest seem very vague about just what the priorities are. This is hauntingly like the "well, the boxes are shipped, now we can relax" attitude that I've seen in other releases.
But then again, Mythic doesn't really like to tell their customers anything but what a good job they've done and how much they know what they're doing. We'll see how long EA accepts this.
I know you're interested in what comes next, I ahve to admit that I am too, but they need some downtime too. Launching a major project like this is EXTREMELY taxing. My guess is they're taking a little time away before hitting it again full force.
What? Mythic doesn't like to tell their customers anything? You are whack dude, because the truth is in the completely other direction.
What? Mythic doesn't like to tell their customers anything? You are whack dude, because the truth is in the completely other direction.
Thank you ever so much for pointing out my error. Could you please point me to where the Patch Notes are listed? How about the Technical forums, since you're so knowledgeable? I'd also be interested in finding where Known Issues with the game client can be found.
Dark Age of Camelot was my first MMO and finding information about what the developers were working on was like a scavenger hunt. I've become accustomed to a higher level of customer service from a product I've paid for. Apparently, you're content with less, "dude".
I know you're interested in what comes next, I ahve to admit that I am too, but they need some downtime too. Launching a major project like this is EXTREMELY taxing. My guess is they're taking a little time away before hitting it again full force.
all that posting and hooking up technical support help and everything on their official forums must be pretty taxing.
oh wait.
What? Mythic doesn't like to tell their customers anything? You are whack dude, because the truth is in the completely other direction.
are you intentionally lying, or just naive?
What? Mythic doesn't like to tell their customers anything? You are whack dude, because the truth is in the completely other direction.
Sorry tho. But Mark and James were indeed very vocal and forthcoming in Beta all the way up till release.
Since the game released last week it's all dead silent!
Some Community Managers are answering only the more straighforward standard issues like Key issues, box delivery issues, account issues.
But at the moment there are some serious and pressing issues people are posting at Warhammeralliance.com and those are all ignored all week long already!
No word from Mythic whatsoever!
- What is Mythic going to do with the population imbalance? We all knew Destruction was going to be overpopulated from day one! We saw it in beta, preview weekends and now it shows after launch!
- What is Mythic going to do about Scenario Queue'ing issues!
- What is Mythic going to do about the FPS, choppy gameplay issues many people (even with high end rigs) are experiencing!
- What is Mythic going to do about City Rank system that seem to be locked!
- What is Mythic going to do about the horrible and completely useless chat system!
- What is Mythic going to do about the still frequently happening Server Disconnects and Client To Desktop crashes! (as they arent so minor as Mythic wanting us to believe)
- What is Mythic going to do about the frequent Character Stuck in Combat / Spell locking issues!
And I can go on and on.
--------
Don't get me wrong. I like WAR a lot. It's far more polished then AoC ever was. But there are still plenty of issues that needs to be adressed ASAP.
Sure some devs will need a breather, but the period directly after launch is what matters! They cannot afford to keep silent now!
Cheers
Thank you ever so much for pointing out my error. Could you please point me to where the Patch Notes are listed? How about the Technical forums, since you're so knowledgeable? I'd also be interested in finding where Known Issues with the game client can be found.
Dark Age of Camelot was my first MMO and finding information about what the developers were working on was like a scavenger hunt. I've become accustomed to a higher level of customer service from a product I've paid for. Apparently, you're content with less, "dude".
My first MMORPG was DAoC, starting in 2001 as well. I have a completely different opinion than you. Mythic always released what they were doing on their Herald, when it would go on the test center, and finally when we could expect it to go live. I'm surprised you missed all that information.
Sorry tho. But Mark and James were indeed very vocal and forthcoming in Beta all the way up till release.
Since the game released last week it's all dead silent!
Some Community Managers are answering only the more straighforward standard issues like Key issues, box delivery issues, account issues.
But at the moment there are some serious and pressing issues people are posting at Warhammeralliance.com and those are all ignored all week long already!
No word from Mythic whatsoever!
- What is Mythic going to do with the population imbalance? We all knew Destruction was going to be overpopulated from day one! We saw it in beta, preview weekends and now it shows after launch!
- What is Mythic going to do about Scenario Queue'ing issues!
- What is Mythic going to do about the FPS, choppy gameplay issues many people (even with high end rigs) are experiencing!
- What is Mythic going to do about City Rank system that seem to be locked!
- What is Mythic going to do about the horrible and completely useless chat system!
- What is Mythic going to do about the still frequently happening Server Disconnects and Client To Desktop crashes! (as they arent so minor as Mythic wanting us to believe)
- What is Mythic going to do about the frequent Character Stuck in Combat / Spell locking issues!
And I can go on and on.
--------
Don't get me wrong. I like WAR a lot. It's far more polished then AoC ever was. But there are still plenty of issues that needs to be adressed ASAP.
Sure some devs will need a breather, but the period directly after launch is what matters! They cannot afford to keep silent now!
Cheers
Who needs forums where people will complain and whine together, which magnifies things that aren't so much of a problem? Mythic has phone support, which most MMORPG companies don't have. This means you get immediate results. I've started threads with problems in mind on Blizzards forums and Funcoms forums and never received a word back. My faith in technical support forums are gone, and I prefer phone support which Mythic has. If your problem is bad enough to come on here and bitch, why haven't you called them to have it resolved.
I play on Averheim and I'm on the Order side. I don't see Dest. as outnumbering us and if they do, it hasn't had an effect. Mythic also has a way to send in your problems through Feedback, which is much more constructive then a bitch session on a forum. In DAoC, they use your Feedback, categorize it by its content, and they send it off to the proper developer in charge of the issue, so they can fix it. Mythic is a great company, whom I've been with for 7 years now. You've no idea how wrong you are right now.
Sorry tho. But Mark and James were indeed very vocal and forthcoming in Beta all the way up till release.
Since the game released last week it's all dead silent!
Some Community Managers are answering only the more straighforward standard issues like Key issues, box delivery issues, account issues.
But at the moment there are some serious and pressing issues people are posting at Warhammeralliance.com and those are all ignored all week long already!
No word from Mythic whatsoever!
- What is Mythic going to do with the population imbalance? We all knew Destruction was going to be overpopulated from day one! We saw it in beta, preview weekends and now it shows after launch!
- What is Mythic going to do about Scenario Queue'ing issues!
- What is Mythic going to do about the FPS, choppy gameplay issues many people (even with high end rigs) are experiencing!
- What is Mythic going to do about City Rank system that seem to be locked!
- What is Mythic going to do about the horrible and completely useless chat system!
- What is Mythic going to do about the still frequently happening Server Disconnects and Client To Desktop crashes! (as they arent so minor as Mythic wanting us to believe)
- What is Mythic going to do about the frequent Character Stuck in Combat / Spell locking issues!
And I can go on and on.
--------
Don't get me wrong. I like WAR a lot. It's far more polished then AoC ever was. But there are still plenty of issues that needs to be adressed ASAP.
Sure some devs will need a breather, but the period directly after launch is what matters! They cannot afford to keep silent now!
Cheers
Hey while I completely understand you would like to go on and on, I wanted to give you a little help with one of your questions.
Though I understand I am not from mythic, I wanted to provide you with this opportunity to accept the information I am about to give you.
http://www.tillberg.us/warpop
This lovely individual/group has taken the current server populations, based off of guilded players on all servers, and compiled it for us.
At this point in time, a large number of servers are actually quite balanced. A few are horribly inbalanced... but nothing too bad. 1:1.7 is still adequate in my opinion. Allows Order to get in faster, and fits well with the Lore.
Now... I know it only includes guilded players... but to be honest it was the guilded Scenario/RvR groups I was worried about anyways. Unguilded, unorganized enemies are really not that much of a threat.
Now, as I said... It doesn't come from Mythic's site, it comes from someone who compiled data from Mythic's site. Oh! have you seen the server cloning they were doing? The announcement on the front windows? You know what i'm talking about right? The information window before you enter into the game.
Yeah, Server cloning. I like that step... good thing to get on right away... if you expect population inbalances.
What about the other stuff? Well no clue, but the fact that you want information NOW really doesn't show me you have good character. The game has only been out 6 days, and already they have been bringing down servers to fix minor problems. The fix for rezzing where you died was good, had a horrid time with destruction players doing that in scenarios.
They are on top of things, and all you need is a little patience. How about a month? You know, that free one you get? Hell, i'd give them two because it is still doing very well on my system. That is, of course, your choice.
I hope you can accept this... for your sake.
That wish may come true in the next few months..evidently Mr Jacobs was interviewed about that very thing the 4 cut classes, ...correct me if I am wrong think it was Ten Ton Hammer.
So that will make quite a few people happy...in the long run. :)
Cend
Thank you ever so much for pointing out my error. Could you please point me to where the Patch Notes are listed? How about the Technical forums, since you're so knowledgeable? I'd also be interested in finding where Known Issues with the game client can be found.
Dark Age of Camelot was my first MMO and finding information about what the developers were working on was like a scavenger hunt. I've become accustomed to a higher level of customer service from a product I've paid for. Apparently, you're content with less, "dude".
Patch notes, news are on the launcher after you put your name and password in...if there is no news there, then there hasn't been any news. Personally I check there briefly if nothing new I go ahead and play. Can also check the Warhammer Alliance forums...the Devs check in there..and post from time to time.
Technical forums if you check the Warhammer site itself under Customer support..there's EVEN A PHONE NUMBER TO CALL. :P
A little reading..a little surfing and its at your fingertips.....for those that put out a tiny bit of effort.
As for official forums, Mr Jacobs has already stated..there won't be any.....I keep up with the news, anything Mythic staff states is pretty much there for answering your overall questions. Again a little reading a little surfing..voila you are as on top of the news as anyone else.
Cend
all that posting and hooking up technical support help and everything on their official forums must be pretty taxing.
oh wait.
Click the Customer Support button on the main Warhammer site........
Cend
Sorry tho. But Mark and James were indeed very vocal and forthcoming in Beta all the way up till release.
Since the game released last week it's all dead silent!
Some Community Managers are answering only the more straighforward standard issues like Key issues, box delivery issues, account issues.
But at the moment there are some serious and pressing issues people are posting at Warhammeralliance.com and those are all ignored all week long already!
No word from Mythic whatsoever!
- What is Mythic going to do with the population imbalance? We all knew Destruction was going to be overpopulated from day one! We saw it in beta, preview weekends and now it shows after launch!
- What is Mythic going to do about Scenario Queue'ing issues!
- What is Mythic going to do about the FPS, choppy gameplay issues many people (even with high end rigs) are experiencing!
- What is Mythic going to do about City Rank system that seem to be locked!
- What is Mythic going to do about the horrible and completely useless chat system!
- What is Mythic going to do about the still frequently happening Server Disconnects and Client To Desktop crashes! (as they arent so minor as Mythic wanting us to believe)
- What is Mythic going to do about the frequent Character Stuck in Combat / Spell locking issues!
And I can go on and on.
--------
Don't get me wrong. I like WAR a lot. It's far more polished then AoC ever was. But there are still plenty of issues that needs to be adressed ASAP.
Sure some devs will need a breather, but the period directly after launch is what matters! They cannot afford to keep silent now!
Cheers
Anyone ever come to the conclusion that they have been working their tails off to get this game out..and a little silence might mean they've taken time to reaquaint themselves with their families again? They are not automatons...I am sure things will be addressed, I am sure that main stickied thread with player suggestions over at WarHammer Alliance is being reviewed.
Every time we go down for maintenance in the early morning hours, there is a small patch...small fixes I am presuming..to the overall performance. I have faith that the Mythic team will stay on top of things, I witnessed their efficiency at fixing things that weren't quite working as intended during closed beta, must say they are very impressive. Very on target, and very focussed.
We'll hear about it when its time. Its been a WEEK since launch......
Cend
Sorry tho. But Mark and James were indeed very vocal and forthcoming in Beta all the way up till release.
Since the game released last week it's all dead silent!
Some Community Managers are answering only the more straighforward standard issues like Key issues, box delivery issues, account issues.
But at the moment there are some serious and pressing issues people are posting at Warhammeralliance.com and those are all ignored all week long already!
No word from Mythic whatsoever!
- What is Mythic going to do with the population imbalance? We all knew Destruction was going to be overpopulated from day one! We saw it in beta, preview weekends and now it shows after launch!
- What is Mythic going to do about Scenario Queue'ing issues!
- What is Mythic going to do about the FPS, choppy gameplay issues many people (even with high end rigs) are experiencing!
- What is Mythic going to do about City Rank system that seem to be locked!
- What is Mythic going to do about the horrible and completely useless chat system!
- What is Mythic going to do about the still frequently happening Server Disconnects and Client To Desktop crashes! (as they arent so minor as Mythic wanting us to believe)
- What is Mythic going to do about the frequent Character Stuck in Combat / Spell locking issues!
And I can go on and on.
--------
Don't get me wrong. I like WAR a lot. It's far more polished then AoC ever was. But there are still plenty of issues that needs to be adressed ASAP.
Sure some devs will need a breather, but the period directly after launch is what matters! They cannot afford to keep silent now!
Cheers
Anyone ever come to the conclusion that they have been working their tails off to get this game out..and a little silence might mean they've taken time to reaquaint themselves with their families again? They are not automatons...I am sure things will be addressed, I am sure that main stickied thread with player suggestions over at WarHammer Alliance is being reviewed.
Every time we go down for maintenance in the early morning hours, there is a small patch...small fixes I am presuming..to the overall performance. I have faith that the Mythic team will stay on top of things, I witnessed their efficiency at fixing things that weren't quite working as intended during closed beta, must say they are very impressive. Very on target, and very focussed.
We'll hear about it when its time. Its been a WEEK since launch......
Cend
Just a moment there, friend. Didn't you have official forums to consult during Closed beta? As far as downtime and this "reconnecting" you're suggesting, may I interject this. The launching of a new venture is the precisely wrong time to step away as there are a myriad of new problems that need addressing. If this is Mythic's excuse for inattentiveness, it is merely that, an excuse and you are an enabler. There is an old adage that says, "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen." If Mythic can't handle dealing with the people who paid good money for their game, perhaps they are in the wrong field.