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Jacobs Interview Part Two - Punkbuster, Capitol Cities and Careers, Page Three
Careers
The last subject that we tackled in our interview was the announcement that was neither a pure positive for the players nor a sort of mix of good and bad news:
“This isn’t something that I can say that it is really a good thing for the player,” he began. “We’re cutting out some classes. I can say that we are doing this for quality, absolutely. Unfortunately, what I can’t say, and I won’t because I’ve never lied to the player base and while this would be a great place to start, I’m not going to.”
“Four of the classes that we’ve been working on, we just couldn’t get great,” he continued. “We looked at them and we said these careers are just not great… and we tried, and they weren’t coming out well.”
This left them with a decision similar to the one that they were left with for the cities, do they continue and try to get it, or do they shelve them? In the end, after looking at the metric data that they have been collecting throughout the beta process, they saw that there were four careers that just weren’t working for the players.
“We tried,” Jacobs said, “we tried to see if we could make them better and we just couldn’t make them great. So we had a choice. Do we put in some non-great careers just because they are iconic, or we cut them out and put them in post-launch if we can get them right, or do we not put them in at all?”
In the end, whether it’s the second or the third option is still unknown.
The four careers that are going may surprise players (and even includes one of Marks personal favorites). The list is as follows:
Choppa (Greenskin)
Hammerer (Dwarf)
Blackguard (Dark Elf)
Knight of the Blazing Sun (Empire)
This means the removal of two tanks and two melee DPS classes.
“I wish we didn’t have to do it,” Mark said, “I really do. Unlike the capital cities [which provided a silver lining in the end], I can honestly say that I really wish we didn’t have to cut them out, but it’s better for them to be cut out than to have classes that aren’t great and that we would spend more time trying to make them great post-launch than we should have to.”
In the end, the team felt that adding careers into the game that weren’t up to their standards would have hurt not only the game and the company, but the players as well. Trying to fix classes (that are already in the game) post-launch can cause a boatload of nightmares as players not only of the careers involved, but of other careers as well. Many MMO players have experienced the nerfing and other annoyances that are often involved in a great deal of tinkering with an existing class, and Mythic didn’t want to put anyone through that experience unnecessarily.
“We’ve been down that path before and we’ve seen other companies go down the exact same path. We’re not going down that path. We’ve launched too many other MMOs and seen too many other guys go ‘it’s not quality, it’s quantity’… Bad move, especially in an RvR game.”
“Of all of the news in this interview, this is the worst. Having to cut these guys out, even though it’s the right decision, I am really sorry that we have to do it. I truly am. I don’t like going to the guys and telling them ‘hey sorry, we’ve got to cut these guys out. They’re just not good enough but that was what we had to do.”
In the end, Mark tells us that the classes that were cut were either not different enough, or they weren’t strong enough. “They just weren’t enough fun. We’re looking for exciting, we’re looking for fun.”
Whether or not you agree with the decision, it’s hard not to like the fact that EA Mythic… I’m sorry, Mythic Entertainment, is telling players up front about the changes and not keeping them under a PR hat, even though some of these announcements will undoubtedly frustrate and anger some players.
“We’ve always believed that it is important to go to the community with both good news and bad,” he said. “Whether it’s the state of the games, or just talking in the forums, we’re professional enough to confront bad news head on and not try to hide it and not try to play games and wait until the last minute when people have already bought the game to tell them. We will not play those kinds of games.”
Of course, we only have their word for it and in this cynical time, players will have to trust their own guts. Personally though, Mythic has never given me a reason not to believe them.
The last thing that we discussed before ending the interview took us full circle back to the first announcement on the EA Mythic name change and the company’s relationship with the publishing giant.
“This has nothing to do with EA,” he said, pointing out that this was entirely a Mythic decision, and it isn’t a directive from the company which many MMO players feel has a dubious history in our genre. “they had zero input in this. This is not something we went to them with and said ‘hey guys, we need an extra few months…’ and they said ‘no, you must ship on this day’. They don’t even know about it. It’s not a discussion we would have with them.”
Well, I guess they know now.
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Only 2 capital cities and my favorite class was cut from launch. Not buying this. Sorry. :(
/shrug
Actually.. I have no problem with this.
These are MASSIVE cities.. they're going to be hard to defend, hard to invade.. Why do you need 6?
I'd rather have 2 great cities, than 2 OK cities and 4 mediocre ones.
While I'm disappointed that they are also cutting 4 classes out, I still understand why. They're really trying to give us a great experience. Any hack company can throw classes in the mix (Or in the case of WoW, just give the EXACT SAME CLASSES to everyone) and call it a day. It takes quite a bit of conviction to say "These classes/cities just aren't good enough." to a ravenous fanbase.
I say Kudos to Mythic. There's always expansions and patches. And since Mythic has a history of giving free expansions, I have no doubt a good deal of what's being left out will be given to us at some point down the line.
I personally agree with the move to only have 2 capital cities. It'll make the fights for the cities much more epic. I'm sad Choppa is gone though. :( I was hoping to relive my days as a dwarf zerker.
I KNEW there were problems with the other capitols and the 4 classes since there was nothing being released on them.
Very very lame and very disappointing - This announcement is going to lose them some players.
Yeah, look at how many expansions DAoC has had. As long as they don't pull another ToA I can wait for more cities and hopefully the addition of the cut classes. Part of me would like to see some elves and dwarves helping out in Altdorf instead of seeing only other Empire players. I can't honestly say I'm 100% happy with the decision but I'm not mad about it either. I know alot of people will be, and the trolls will flock to this like vultures, but at least Mythic has the guts to tell us now instead of at launch.
"Wooooooops we forgot four cities sorry 'bout that! Glad you bought the game though, adios suckers!"
None of that.
EDIT: Terrible example I know but it's the game I spent the most time in...
Stormwind is really the populated city for Alliance in WoW. I mean, Ironforge has some too, but far less. Darnassus and Exodar, haha, you'll be lucky to find 10 people there. But WoW has 4 capital cities (Darnassus is lame so really only 3) and they didn't do that great a job with detail and such on them. Can't speak for Horde but I'd imagine it's similar (there was no one in Silvermoon when we raided it!). In WAR having 3 capital cities would be more important, but perhaps we'd see the same thing...people flocking to Altdorf or the Inevitable City anyways. This way it provides a localized, strong defense, and the cities will be 10x better then WoW's.
Well they are keeping their promise from months ago when they promised they wouldn't put a class or feature in that was subpar and that they'd be up front about it. It'll suck to wait post launch for the other capitals but atleast it means there'll be new fresh huge patches of content to enjoy once the rest starts getting stale. (plus he's not lying when he says the capitols are huge and FULL of things to do it won't leave anyone at a disadvantage especially if Tier 4 content across all races counts towards the main capital for a while).
As for the missing classes I really really really really wanted to play a choppa but I still get a squig herder and the best / coolest classes in the game are still in so I'll have to deal. Hopefully these classes make it into game post launch because when they add other capitols it'll suck to be an Empire player when the dwarf & high elf tanks leave unless you build your group as a dps destroying awsomeness which would work since the 2 tanks being left out are fromt he empire vs chaos realm lol.
Disappointment factor 0
Sadness factor over news 8
Still buying? Hell yea there's tons of other stuff to do content that comes post launch is always a good refreshing thing.
I just hope they learn from WoW not to make only 1 of each focal point (AH, Bank) so as to cut down on bogging and clusters, especially with collision detection.
I'm sure Mythic will add these guys back in if they get them working right, they did good work in DAoC with adding really unique classes with most expansions. Not to mention they're generally not afraid of releasing free content if its owed to their players. (Housing, New Frontiers, etc.)
I'm not ready to throw bricks yet.
I have to say I was expecting some GOOD news not bad news on the game today. Oh well. I really think they should have pushed for at least 4 Capitol cities at launch. As for the 4 classes getting cut, I know there will be a HUGE dissapointment that Choppa is gone. I know that a bunch of people were planning on playing this class at launch. This also only offers 1 ORC choice now right?
And just another thing, we've forgotten all about their efforts to stop hackers/cheaters! I know Mythic's always hated them and I think pretty much everyone (except the hackers/cheaters) hates them too. It won't make up for whatever dissapointment/sadness came from the capital and class decisions but it's still a good thing.
They did....if you read up on the cities every tavern (there are multiple ones in a city) has an Auction House and each district in a city has a bank ( i think ). So there's multiple locations within a city to conduct business tho I'm guessing most players will flock to the first one they find lol. Atleast when the other cities come up that'll spread it out even more.
Honestly, I'm disappointed with the Capital Cities, but from pretty much the first day I visited WAR's website, I had myself begged down for a Choppa, and from that point on, nothing else. I can't play anything but, sorry.
No ones' trying to tell you to do otherwise or convince you to stay so whats the point of the repeating your post?
Personally 2 major cities that are awsome completely outway 6 cities with 4 of them sucking wind and 2 being alright. Its a good design decision. They'll release the other 4 they're not cancelled they're just not launch date ready. If you want half ass done promises and launch material thats broken go visit the AoC forums and see how fun that is to deal with.
Yeah if I made a Destruction alt that's one class I woulda tried. But you should keep an eye on the game anyways, DAoC has added classes in expansions so there's a good chance it'll happen with WAR. Alot of people want to kill as Orcs, and go berserk and smash stunties, so the Choppa is their only choice.
/Shrug
Everyone has a right to their opinion. I say, "Sorry friend. You're loss".
You're denying yourself other experiences you may find equally or more enjoyable and joining the party late. All for what? A rigid belief that you never even had the opportunity to try? How do you know you would have liked the class to begin with?
Not tyring to change your mind or anything.. But I can't help but be a little saddened when a potentially good person makes these kinds of choices. And I'm not talking about just games either.
Kinda bummed about the hacking of the Knight of the Blazing Sun and the Blackguard however, I suppose I would have been more bummed if those two classes were boring. Can't wait to hear more about hte Magus and the WHite Lion though :)
ok.....
Couple of questions then.
Since there are onyl goign to be 2 capitol cities how is that going to affect the tiers? It has been said for over a year that each racial paring has teiar 1-4 and tier 4 has t he capitols in them. Now that the other teir 4 zones dont' have capitols what is the poitn for those zones? Will the influence points spill over to the empire/chaos teir 4 zone to determine if a city can be attacked? Are they removing All of the other races areas? I know they said the other cities will be added post launch, but how long after launch are they targetting? Some answers on this front need to be answered if they expect to keep some customers. Me for one, as I am dwarf player.
For the classes, so that leaves Chaos and High Elfs with 4 classes each and the others with 3.
I can handle only having 2 cities to fight over more than I can handle losing 4 classes. There was a certain balance between the 2 sides because of their archetypes and mirrors. Now that balance has just been tossed.
So Order has a magic tank and Destruction doesn't. Destruction has a heavy tank and Order doesn't. Not really a balanced trade in my eyes.
Also so many people had plans to play certain classes and removing them can really dash any interest they had in the game or force them to a side they don't want to play on to get the playstyle they want.
My only real concern, that by removing capital cities, is that they weren;'t that integral to the game to begin with.
And if that's the case, I am a little less confident in this title. The world and origins of races should play big into this game world!
Ugh..
About the cities : Wise choice of Mythic, it is not realistic to have 6 perfect cities with the content they promise us. 2 cities will give us focus and a community sense. All our enemies will be there and we will all be there to fight them. Imagine 6 different sieges at the same time....anyway, i think its best to have quality over quantity.
About the classes : Extremely bad news :(, i am disappointed but i value honesty and i thank Mythic for giving us exactly that, "We cant fix the classes so we cut them, we hope to add them later". At least they tell us the truth. Imagine if we bought the game and found out that there are 4 classes missing???
Overall, bad news but we now know that we deal with honest people who care about our gaming experience.
Goodbye badass Blackguard.
So what your saying is every faction should have a mirror? Some would say that makes for rather dull gameplay.
In my opinion, it gives one side a distinct advantage over the other, and a distinct disadvantage. You have to use tactics to exploit those weakness and play to your own strengths, and I think it makes for much more interesting gameplay. DAoC had that, and I really liked that about it. It emphasizes that your choices have consequences. Picking one faction over they other when they're equal essentially makes it a choice of aesthetics.. and that doesn't intereset me.
Actually my friend they removed the 4 cities so we could enjoy 2 cities perfectly made unlike any others in any mmorpg
On the contrary, they were, it wasn't an easy decision by a long shot. But to have empty lifeless cities and then Altdorf and the Inevitable City huge and full of life would have been disproportional. If they took the time to make 4 other capitals like Alt and I.C., we would be looking at a middle to late 2009 launch...almost a whole 'nother year. Too long! Hopefully they'll be added in an expansion, even if only two at a time.
Though...I'd rather they put in the cut classes first.
Sounds like Mythic is doing a bit of "wandering in the desert" to me.My confidence they will make a fall launch has dropped. What's the latest on ORIGINS..if anything ?
Actually my friend they removed the 4 cities so we could enjoy 2 cities perfectly made unlike any others in any mmorpg
I understand that and respect it, but... what I meant was, if it's that simple to pull out the capital cities (even for quality reasons) they must have not been that integral to the game play and design. I thought there would have been major game play subsystems that revolved around them, quest hubs, etc.
And also, it begs the question - when WILL we see them? As part of a patch soon after release? And what about the classes? No doubt there are some people bummed about certain classes being dropped that they no doubt were going to play... they want to know if they'll be in 2 months? 6 months? Paid expansion? etc.
I'm pritty much ok with the 2 city thing, if certain things are only accessable via the capitals then only having the 1 area to access them now whould mean losing that area is SO much more a bigger blow to the side, it's not like the 'oh dear, i'll just have to wander over to the other cities to do my stuff'... now it's 'WTF!!! I CAN'T DO ^%££% WHY THE &*%$£$ DID WE LOSE!', I'm liking this a little more.. but as players stated how willthis change the RVR, we dunno no one does, lets hope the beta testers and help figure it out (wish we all could but)
Class wise: yea we lose those 4 but... theres nothing stopping them adding them in later in a content update, sure it may hinder a few sales for players wanting to onlyy play those classes but i think it's goona be ok.
I'll preface this by saying that I am extremely excited about this game, have followed its development since the beginning, and already have the pre-order.
But guys come on, all this "cup half full" talk is a bit disheartening. It is not a good thing that they are cutting 2/3 of the city content. It is not a good thing that after this long they are cutting 4 classes because they are "not good enough".
But even beyond that, I am a bit scared watching the videos. I am the only person (aka, non WAR troll), who thinks that in the videos that have been shown, the action and fighting looks extremely slow and static? Say what you will about WOW PVP and all the ludicrous jumping, from what I have seen in these videos the PVP is standing there bashing the other guy........very slowly. Even watching the videos of the goblin exploring the Inev city, don't you think the run movements look extremely.....awkward? It should look better by now.
I'm worried about my game.
I was really looking forward to this game being Warhammer in a DAOC fashion with great realm vs realm, and you guys couldn't even get the realm vs realm right. So now we only get 2 capital cities instead of 6?! How are the servers going to handle thousands of players in each capital city and continual fights over these very large cities? They won't be able to handle the lag, nor will many of the playerbase have computers able to handle it. I mean at least give us some fortresses to fight over and claim in the game zones.
What happens when a guild of 200 all reach top level and start to continually raid the opposing capital city a few days after launch? Many player won't be able to do any quests in that Capital city. 6 capital cities would have alleviated this issue.
I figure EA told you guys to hold off on 4 classes to include in an expansion pack... we're not dumb enough to think you couldn't get them "right."
It feels like Mythic is really catering this game to the masses. Turning it into a clone of WoW in attempts to draw more players, while killing off the pvp aspect of realm vs realm, bottlenecking the players in 2 lag filled capital cities, and keeping content out of the game to release in future expansion packs.
You guys really blew it, I was looking forward to an epic game, but I've decided to cancel my CEdition Pre-Order. Its not worth the price losing 4 cities and 4 classes and who knows what else after the game was already delayed a year.
I wonder if they've just removed the tier-4 zones for greenskin/dwarves and high/dark elves and the quests are now re-directed to the tier-4 zones in empire/chaos?
Might make more sense to do the 'switch' at the tier threshold rather than just remove the capitol city section of tier 4?
It might even be that the capitol cities will be there (in part at least) - but just can't be captured by the opposing factions yet?
...how is this wandering in the desert? They want to make their fall launch they know 4 cities would not have been finished on the level of the current 2 that are being worked on...so they decided we only launch with 2 concentrate our efforts on those 2 make them awsome so we reach launch instead of waiting another year or MORE to have 6 six cities. How does that shoot your confidence down? I mean how does what you say make sense? No one has EVER seen the other 4 cities that tells me if they'd wait to launch with all six we wouldn't see them until next fall maybe later and that would honestly suck.
Seiging is in, keeps are in, dungeons are in, lots of classes are in, 2 king encounters in, lots of gear in...boo hoo there's not 6 cities but we can still seige & pvp so what does it matter? We can do all the things they promised just not in 6 different locations.
You guys all complain when companies release subpar content but when a company makes a decision to hold off on unready content you cry about it. Its totally a lose lose situation no matter which way they go but I'm honestly glad to know we'll get 2 awsome cities instead 2 ok and 4 subpar and a bunch of broken.
http://www.war-rvr.net/ go here if you want ORIGINS news its pretty awsome right now.
Takes more than 200 people to siege the city its is not a guild event. So nice try at the trolling lol.
Yea, this news greatly saddened me. Really wasn't something I wanted to wake up too in the morning. But I respect Mark and the company for telling us this news face to face,so to speak. The punkbuster tidbit seemed a little extreme, but we'll see how it effects the game's hackers and cheaters in the coming months if implemented.
I did almost fall off my chair after reading the capitol city announcment. But Mythic sticks to thier promises, tells the truth, and does try to fix things. After years of running DAOC they have plenty of data concerning successes and mistakes. While watching both the empire and chaos capital city run threw I did notice they were both extremely large, yet scarecly populated with npcs. Which got me thinking a bit last night. You can hate the company, but at least respect them. They were stuck between an anvil and a hammer. They had postponed the game before, because they wished to make a better experience to players, to increase the quality of the greenskin and dwarf zones and expand on the empire and chaos areas.Now this time they could have either pushed the release date which would have been a early 2009 release date, or improve immensly on what they have and make it good to the players without releasing a game that had flaws and needed improvments. I can see logic in the decision made. My only concern is how this will effect racial pairing and tier rvr.
The classes was an even bigger bomb, i can live with two content filled cities until the release of more.But I once again respect them for dropping four of thier brain children, whom they tweaked and worked on for months if not years. I had only wished other game developers would have done the same to some boring classes and try to balance and add new ones. The KotBS wasn't that much of a suprise. I didn't find him too interesting even in context. The choppa was a suprise to me as I'm sure it was to everyone. The hammerer also hit home with me too. The Black guard seemed an interesting career and I'm suprised that interest in him wasn't all too great. Mythic looked at the overall data and looked at the classes that people weren't using as a whole and decided to change.
While some people may have decided to quit after this article. I still have trust and faith in Mythic and this warhammer adaptation. I'm going to play the game and try to enjoy it . If after three months of play content promised isn't even shown to be soon released then I'll start changing my opinions. Until then, War is still coming.
Great writeup and good read. I think taking the highroad is always the better alternative regardless of the repercussions. At the end of the day I thank them for being straight shooters with us all this makes my decision in purchasing the game easy. I will buy the game becuase they actually care about their client base. This is the best article I read all week, thanks again for all your folks hard work over at mmorpg.
PS. not sad about the 4 classes being dropped, I'm being a witch hunter anyways, hehe.
Well its Mark, so if he thinks something is going to be released half-assed it most likely wont make it out.
It is a let down that the other 4 cities will not be in at launch, but if it means they have some time to make the other four as massive and amazing as Altdorf and The Inevitable City I have no problems.
The only thing I am disappointed in is the four classes that won't make it in. I am sure there are difficulties getting things to work with some of the classes, but I would love to see Mythic do thier best to get the Orc Choppa and the Dwarf Hammerer into the game. Though.... the Germans may be disappointed in not having the Blackguard. I was planning on making a Knight of the Blazing Sun myself, but I can try something else. The announcement is disappointing yes, but..... atleast they told us.
Regardless, I'll be in the game at launch. Atleast I will have something to look forward to while in-game.
Odin's Beard, people. It seems to be time for another vocabulary lesson!
"Capitol" with an O is used only when referring to the building (not the city) where a legislative body meets. (And when you are talking about the one in Washington, D.C., it should be capitalized.)
"Capital" with an A is for everything else: cities, letters, an idea -- everything else.
Unless the political systems in WAR are far more advanced than they've let on, the word "capitol" with an O is generally unwarranted.
From WHA's James - A Mythic CM:
It's important to remember a few key facts:
A) The game is still in development, it's important that we make the right decisions to have a successful launch.
B) We want to make a great game, not a good game. I think we can all agree that playing a career that wasn't up to par with our standards doesn't accomplish that.
C) Capital cities require you to capture 2 of the 3 campaigns. We'll have a much more informative explanation of how city capture works but it's now even more challenging and requires the cooperation of the entire realm to march to the gates of your enemies city and conquer their king, which in the end was always our goal.
WAR, while now different, is more exciting and engaging then ever before and the cities and careers provide an experience to look forward too
Soo it looks like we still need to win control over the zones to 'unlock' the cities still, just that it seems what was 'teir 4 part 3' (ie the city areas) seems to be now 'tier 5' which as he said makes the whole thing swing back and forth a whole lot more, so at least they thought about the impact removing cities would do and worked a new system around it without drastically changing the game, all is still good (thats if those 4 classes aren't gone for good)
So what your saying is every faction should have a mirror? Some would say that makes for rather dull gameplay.
In my opinion, it gives one side a distinct advantage over the other, and a distinct disadvantage. You have to use tactics to exploit those weakness and play to your own strengths, and I think it makes for much more interesting gameplay. DAoC had that, and I really liked that about it. It emphasizes that your choices have consequences. Picking one faction over they other when they're equal essentially makes it a choice of aesthetics.. and that doesn't intereset me.
I guess I should have explained a bit further!
Since 2 of the Melee DPS have been removed that means there are more classes that can do ranged damage then there are classes that will use melee. So it would be advantages to have a tank that can deal with ranged damage since they are better against more opponents than it is to have a tank that is better against melee which there are less of.
So a magical tank is worth more since there are more ranged classes.
A physical tank is worth less since there are less melee.
As for Shadow warriors, Squig herders, and the swordmaster I don't quite know the mechanics of what type of damage they do nor what all damage the swordmaster is best at absorbing(magical obviously but does that include all ranged?)
These choice must have taken a lot guts to make and to go public with, much respect to them for that.
The decision to hold back the last four cities is great to be honest, since as said in the interview when they are finally in the game they'll likely outshine the first two in content and polish.
As for the four careers they axed, one can only hope they will implement 2 more class pairings to compensate at a later date (this will happen it's inevitable, if only for game symmetry). There are plenty of choices for replacement careers from the IP (I will have to research this of course).
*Sigh* no Blackguard
Of course it's not a good thing, and we can all be upset and cry about a decision that was hard to make but one that's already been made, hopefully for the overall good of the game. Mythic never said the cities are gone forever, and they're thinking about adding in the classes later. The "glass half full" view is the only logical one to take, because even though this is bad, there's still alot of good things in the game.
As for combat, most of those people don't even use skills or don't use them effectively. Beta testers have said it's on-par with WoW when it comes to speed, so you'll really have to play it to judge for yourself. It looks slow, but the vids usually have either casters or giant Chosens with 2H axes...which are slow. Animations are quirky but they are the last things to be polished so I wouldn't worry about that yet.
I think they should delay the launch with what is going on... I wonder if they would have taken this same route if they didn't have AoC as an example. Either way I don't think the game is ready to launch when they are launching it.
I would like to see more at launch I am OK with it being less as long as they do things right and will focus on adding the content after launch. The biggest issue is making sure the classes are balanced. If they are not and have to tinker with them then that puts everything back farther. That is when you get into problems, people pushing professions out too fast and they not being balanced causing more issues and such. This is what hurt games such as SWG, The Devs not balancing professions and spending so much time even now still tinkering with the professions wasting time that could be used on other content or issues. So Mythic saying they are dropping 4 classes (at least for the time being) is a good thing. Don't have content is that is not balanced and have to be fixed before other issues while having the chance to cause more issues with other professions because you are rushing the job. That is not even considering the effect it would have on the players who picked those classes and fell they are not good enough, have no real role, or are broken and unable to play well. Mythic doing the right thing is scaling back to make sure everything is done right the first time and not having to be fixed 5 times later to make them right.
Making the Captial cities such an important aspect in the game demands they be done right also. So by delaying them also helps WAR. Though hopefully they can get 2 more cities out within the first few months after release.
One of the things that as always endured me to Mythic was their open and honest talk about their games. They have always shown how many games sold and the more important part of how many people are active subscribers and how many people on at one time total and in what servers. No other game company is this open no matter how much money they make on their games as they are afraid to show any sign that is not positive or inflated to look as such through PR spin. Mythic has never been (even as a small company before DAOC came out and afterwards) one to not cost themselves money by taking action against accounts. From minor problems such as layers brekaing through a zone wall and getting into the PVE area's and killing the lowbies in those starter zones. What happened to those 2 players? ban for 2 weeks and dropped from lvl 50 to lvl 17 characters and all Realm Points lost, with a warn of any more problems and their accounts would be ban. Mythic even has openly talked about their Dev team failures. Back near the end of DAOC beta there was still some lingering issues with Left Axe not working. As this worked differently then Duel weild which the other two realms used it was only a problem for Midgard. The Dev working on it said it had been fixed twice but when added to the game it clearly had now. Mythic opening said in their test notes that they had fired the Dev running that and gotten someone else to work on it and sure enough it was ready to go soon after and before the game went live. Mythic runs their games openly, more so then any other company. If they tell you something good or bad you can believe they mean it as they know their playerbase is the most imporatnt part of running games rather then running the players as so many other companies try and do.
Have you heard the expression "cutting off your nose to spite your face". I guess you will never play another game then until someone does WAR 'properly'. Sad you had invested so much emotioal energy into that one thing. Sucicide is painless.
Let's hope they will add the "missing" content with patches. Don't want to be forced to buy expansion later on.
I'm actually happy about this! This means that Mythic cares about the quality of the game! atleast they're not lying and keeping us in the dark , I like that
So now we get 20 classes instead of 24 I will miss some of the classes bus honestly a few may be back or they may reinvite some of them. As for the cities I mean we never saw anything on the other 4 cities so I was kinda expecting that myself. They really wanna make a fall release date and just release the other stuff down the road. I mean I can understand this they wanna get the game out and have a great product without bogging stuff down with incomplete cities and classes.
I bet they saw what happened wit Funcom and AoC and learned some lessons from it.
This news is a fucking disaster. Reducing to 2 capitals will probably make people roll Chaos and Empire careers leaving the other two depopulated. Also, its been said that has a quick fix you need to fight and win the war in 2 campaigns before you get to lay seige to Altdorf. That is just plain bad IMO. It reduces the entire game down to points. The lore and logic of taking ground and keeps and strategic points on the map goes out the window.
What effect does a captured keep in the high elf area (just for instance) have on the defence of Altdorf for christsake! Everything in the two campaigns lacking cities has just been reduced to so much victory point grinding material.
Some people seem to think the missing classes will be added after launch, but Jeff has already stated that is still under discussion! Under discussion!! With the usual post lauch fixes to do, does anyone believe Mythic will have the time to redo those four classes?
I guess I should have explained a bit further!
Since 2 of the Melee DPS have been removed that means there are more classes that can do ranged damage then there are classes that will use melee. So it would be advantages to have a tank that can deal with ranged damage since they are better against more opponents than it is to have a tank that is better against melee which there are less of.
So a magical tank is worth more since there are more ranged classes.
A physical tank is worth less since there are less melee.
As for Shadow warriors, Squig herders, and the swordmaster I don't quite know the mechanics of what type of damage they do nor what all damage the swordmaster is best at absorbing(magical obviously but does that include all ranged?)
Destruction still has its magical tank. Chosen was the Magic Tank...nobody really knew what Black Guard was gonna be yet. They had yet to release any substantive information on it. At least Chosen and marauder are still there :) (my little bit of greed). And there will still be 10,000 shadow warriors named legolas
It's amazing that as gamers for the last decade we've been fed nothing but low quality games with a few gems mixed in with the slop. And as soon as someone starts doing something for quality control some of us start to cry fowl.
If anything this interview makes me respect Mythic -and- EA.
Mythic for having standards and realizing that some content wasn't ready or up to said bar.
EA for what seems to be a genuine attempt at pulling their heads out of their collective arse, though that could quickly change.
For now I'll stick with their words and wait patiently for the NDA to be lifted; If they don't pull a Funcom that is.
Where are you getting yoyur information? I only ask because I hadn't heard anything about winning multiple campaigns or any comments from Jeff Hickman.
Over on WHA in one of the 8 thousand threads this article spawned James Said you will now need to control 2 of the parings to advance to the capitol city stage...
Well, I do not see any of this as a good thing.
* Canceled classes
* Canceled starting areas
* Now looks like the same ghastly mistake EQ2 made with their start & faction areas
* Punkbuster ? ? ? This is not a 32 player game, is it? This is a game with 1000s of players on a server at one time. I cannot believe this is not going to have a Client-side impact on performance and gameplay. Not to mention the security issues this is going to raise. Using a package like this on a FPS like BF series is one thing. Using it in a persistant world where you stand to lose months, if not years, of progress on being hacked?
WAR just dropped several notches on my interest list. Looking like it is being rushed to market to soon. They should just bite the bullet and finish it for release, like they have always said they were going to do.
And drop this astoundingly stupid idea of using 'Punkbuster' for security.
Just my 2c
Hardly a rush the game's been in development for almost 4 years now. Considering what happened with other games EQ2 and AoC where they released everything even if it wasn't finished...I'll choose WAR's method anyday. I'd rather it just not be there if its not finished.
Hardly a rush the game's been in development for almost 4 years now. Considering what happened with other games EQ2 and AoC where they released everything even if it wasn't finished...I'll choose WAR's method anyday. I'd rather it just not be there if its not finished.
My thoughts on the Starting areas are based on DAoC which had starting areas related to the Capital Cities. Thus, if only two Capital Cities are in play, I would expect only two sets of Starting areas to be in play as well. Could be wrong; don't have any maps.
Delayed is as good as canceled as far as Launch goes. Lets say they are canceled for launch and indefinitely delayed for inclusion (we don't actually have any dates).
No thoughts on Punkbuster?
what a sick joke, cutting out 2/3 of content from the game, i dont care anymore when this crap is released, another fail...
Im not concerned with the removal of the captial cities as long as they are put in at a later date. What really irks me is the removal of the classes. I had beeen planning on playing a blackguard since they released information about them. Now I have to go back to the drawing board. Adding classes to a game after it has already started is never a good thing. There is always going to be a balance issue. They should have just delayed the game again untill they got it right. Mark keeps saying EA is having no impact on Mythic's schedule for the game, then why release it when its obviously not ready? If it was ready you wouldn't have to cut out key elements of the game to make it enjoyable. And what about all their bs about the game being done for months and all we are doing is polishing things up...
I bet they saw what happened wit Funcom and AoC and learned some lessons from it.
I think they where aiming way higher since the start. DAoC was possibly the best MMORPG release ever. Mythic design things, they test things, they are honest with there customers (this announcement for example) Unlike FC which do the exact reverse.
No thoughts on Punkbuster?
On Punkbuster? No...but something needs to be done to eliminating or help with cheating if it works without interfering then I really don't care. If bogs things down then I hope they remove it.
btw those aren't thoughts on the cities...its the truth :) ask anyone who's played the game already. The starting zones to lvl 40 zones are still in game...otherwise they'd of said "we're leaving out these Realms" not Cities.
Its funny how people forget the past..Vanguard released with everything yet it was severely incomplete...AoC said they had everything but didn't and still don't and the game is in piss poor shape after dozens of delays. WAR makse one smart move to eliminate bad / unfinished content so they can finally release and give the players something and people still whine despite the fact it IS a good choice.
Delays don't fix everything AoC's broken & bug issues prove this. Delaying because 1 or 2 things aren't ready is one thing Delaying because several LARGE things that don't eliminate the entire promised feature of the game is mildly retarded. We still get AH's, banks, Sieges, Keeps, Lots and lots and lots of zones filled with content, 20 classes, dungeons, PvP, RvR ranks, a career system, tactics system, guild system, etc
All the promised systems are there...just 4 of the 6 ways to reach some of the system isn't. We still get to do everything they promised. I'll still be out on a battlefield bashing heads and busting down keep walls.
Looks like the 'Mines of Moria' will be coming out just in time.
you can go join hapy land of bunnies I'll be killing members of the Order Faction instead.
"Takes more than 200 people to siege the city its is not a guild event. So nice try at the trolling lol. "
-Banthis the nonfactor
Yeah thats what they said about WoW till hardcore pvp guilds locked down Ogrimmar and Ironforge. I could take 50 of my guys and lock one of these lame cities down with 400 newbies trying to get back in., Warhammer isn't going to have the same sever pop as WoW, so it'll be that much easier. The level cap of 40 will be hit within 2 days by exploit usage, always happens.
WAR devs were supposedly working on this game a long time, producing all these retarded podcasts and videos when they should have been working on content for the game. It was bad enough they had to redo the graphics because they got so out of date, but removing 4 cities and 4 classes?! I mean how hard is it to make a mirror class with some cool looking tactics that differentiate it from its counterpart?! Good luck trying to add 4 classes and balance them later on down the line, talk about a challenge. This is an obviously stupid move to anyone who has worked in the game development industry. No thanks Mythic, take this BS Spin and write a blog, if they really believe people think taking out this much content is going to make the game better, they don't deserve my money nor anyone looking for a solid pvp MMORPG. This game isn't ready for a sept launch. Get ready for your first $30 expansion pack with maybe 2 classes, then another $30 expansion with 2 more classes after that. Funcom promised alot and also didn't deliver with AOC, hence their subscriber base being down to like 70k now out of the estimated 700k pre-orders all because they didn't have the content ready they said they would.
Hear that sound?... Its the sound of thousands of WOTLK being pre-ordered because people know WAR isn't shaping up to be what they thought.
<modedit>
2/3 of the content? So by this logic the only content in the game is the 6 cities?
All they are delaying is the Capital city of four races, NOT the entire area in which they quest/reside.
Its pretty much the same thing. When your in the gnome/dwarf zone you hang out in IronForge and fight there. When your in the undead area you hang out in Undercity not that lame village. Etc. etc. Taking away the capital cities takes away what we were going to fight over. It takes about a TON of pvp and bragging rights. Guilds now can only assault 2 major capitals, when we should have been able to assault 6 and fight over them. 2/3 of the content was removed, as this is a supposed PVP game as they say, not a PVE driven game. Yet removing these cities turns the game back to PVE, which isn't what was intended in the first place.
I don't know if you played on any pvp servers in WoW, but guilds that had 200+ members regularly took over and camped the cities. With only 2 capital cities to fight over, its going to be locked down immediately by a zerg guild with 500+ members. Where will the other guilds fight over or go? Smaller crews need places to fight over, and having 6 capital cities gave many more options for PVP. If you think they're going to add them back in anytime after release your kidding yourself. Maybe a year later or more.
Okay... I don't care if all capitol city's are in.. makes battles much more bigger. more lvl 40s..
But im crying because the blackguard won't be in .. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! someone kill me!!! PLZZZ!!!!!!!!!
I want my Blackguard god dammit.. I'm crying so bad. Well guess it's the chaos chosen... or the high elves shadow warrior...
I want to die!!
No matter how you spin it this is bad news. Some of us, including me, may think that Mythic is handling it well and making the right choice of releasing less polished content instead of too much unpolished content if they HAVE to release it soon and absolutely cannot push back the launch.
However, they are releasing a clearly unfinished game instead of pushing it back which will hurt them, and is dissapointing. They are cutting content which is never a good thing.
There is no way to put a positive spin on this. It is bad news all around, and it makes me sad, but it is still better news than: "Most of our cities are unpolished and underdeveloped and 1/4th of our classes suck, but we are going to release like this anyway."
No matter how you spin it a MASSIVE amount of content just got cut, and we aren't going to see it anytime soon as launches take from 3-12 months to iron out bugs and start really bringing on content.
I see the loss of the 4 classes at launch as a major negative. There is no doubt about it; the game has been in development for years now, and is failing to deliver a significant "chunk" of the game experience in the form of 25% of its classes.
However, what I *DO* like about this announcement is the honest and appologetic tone. Let's face it, they could have strung people along into the time just before launch, when pre-orders were full set and people's expectations finalized, to release this information. They could have made promises that they would "do their best" to have it ready for launch. Instead, they have looked at the quality of the components and made careful decisions what would have the worst effect on the perception of the game, and delayed those components.
I honestly think this is a smart business approach, and will help them considerably if they continue to follow the same methodology down the road. Obviously no one is happy about these details, but this sets a great tone for the 'relationship' many of us plan to build with the game and Mythic through playing WAR.
I do love reading Mark's 'spin-jobs' though; it reminds me of my day-to-day as a Project Manager all too well ;). Honest but optimistic... that's the way to do it.
Im disapointed that there cuttting some of the coolest classes, seemed to good to be true
At least they didnt lie to us or tried to cover the truth up like other mmos. I only hope they do add the cut content sooner rather then never and that it realeses with a high degree of polish and content like there claiming its gonna have. We can only hope the best
The news sucks but as long as the gameplay is good I will still play.
Also losing 4 classes out of 24 is 1/6=16.666% not 25%. Learn mathematics please.
I want to see the classes added withing 3months of launch, I would be patient upto 6 month.
I want to see the other four capitals in the game within 6 months, I would be patient upto 12 months.
If they fail to accomplish those goals the gameplay better be so phenomenal that I won't even remember what was cut out. If it isn't, I will be very disapointed.
Amazing, they actually finally learned something from DAoC. Too many classes is bad.
Cutting the capital cities is good too, less complexity and bugs at launch. Wow I actually might change my mind and suscribe to this game, maybe nerf-a-lot Mythic has learned something.
As to the whiners, you can look forward to the first expansion for the missing classes. At least hopefully now the existing classes will be somewhat balanced at launch.
Never thought I would see Mark Jacobs admit to the mistakes they made in DAoC. Guess I will have to give him a break in the future.
Hopefully this new security company can control the cheaters using all the hacks that were plentiful in DAoC. Nothing worse than a cheater in an pvp game.
Only good thing I can see in all this crappy news, is the honesty of Mythic. Hats off to them for not going the Funcom route. But what happened to the "we'll release the game when it's ready" philosophy? Was it just empty words from the PR guys? Sure seems like it
My interest in this game is really starting to drop (fast!), now it looks to me like we'll be playing another half-finished game that investors rush to earn a quick buck. I have just read the article right now, and maybe I'll look at it differently in a week, but right now I no longer believe in this game.
Had to adjust my hype rating from 8.0 to 4.0
Dammit ....all the stuff I thought Mythic would never do!!
Why not just postpone and deliver as promised. Cutting these classes MAKES NO SENSE.
First of all Choppas - there are no ORCS now, only 2 gobbos and a black orc for WARHAMMER?
And no Knight of the Burning Sun = no empire knights??? You have Witch Hunters but no knights of the empire???
This makes no sense. And cutting down to two cities?? Why is that?
You are starting to go the Funcom route. And if this news stands I am going to skip WAR all together!!!
I spent all this time defending WAR and Mythic for year. Now I feel like a sucker.
/I am out till they take this back - if this is the route for WAR then I am out. Delay rather than cut content.
Draccan
p.s. why are all MMO companies the same!?!?!?!?
*hugely dissappointed face* :mad:
I guess we are gonna have to wait for 2009 before a new good, complete, finished mmo will come out!!
Wow 4/6 of the siege content cut...I mean....ouch.
At least they have been up front about it, I guess and did not wait until people bought the game to tell them most of the content they were promised was either not in or broken (funcom).
But still..I mean Jeeze, has anyone thought about what this means for all axed capitols build up area?, they have just made the point in capturing them pointless..hell do we even know if those areas are still in?
Maybe this is not just a 2 thirds of SIEGE content axed but 2 thirds of CONTENT gone.........
:(
I guess my antisipation of this game has just dropped 2 thirds too, a crying shame.
Though this news is sad, I tend to think that they cities were not up to what they wanted, and may be same way for the players. As for the class cuts these will hurt as alot of people wanted to play those 4 classes. One thing for certain that i am glad to see, is Mythic dumping EA. EA has done very little in terms of being a good publisher and their methods tend to annoy alot of gamers due to the fact they force companies to put products out for a quick buck.
I think that mythic will add the cities and lost classes down the road when they believe they have them ready, and I know most of the players will miss both cities and classes until that time. Maybe, just maybe we will get a quality product instead of a shoddy crappy MMO which seems to be the main drive these days.
Good article all around. I'm glad they are more concerned with polish and making the game "fabulously" fun, rather than try to shoehorn in as much as possible and then fix it post launch. Good for Mythic. I'm even more glad I sprung for the CE.
To the poster saying there is now 2/3rd siege content missing: You should go read the newsletters there is not just Capital City Sieges.
I admire Mythic for the honesty and a strong comitment to QUALITY over QUANTiTY!
Where have we heard all this before... "oh it will not make launch, but will be added later"
I am so sick off mmos today!
No, if they were going the Funcom route, they'd ship the game with all that broken and unfinished content and try to fix it post launch while never owning up to the fact they didn't deliver what they said they were going to deliver. Mythic took the smart route and came forward with what they felt they could deliver in a great, polished form and took the stuff that they felt didn't work, shelved it and (hopefully) will implement it later when they feel it meets their standards of quality and fun.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't with you, eh? I suggest you play what's shipped before delivering epic QQ'ing. You might just be pleasantly surprised.
First of all Punkbuster - Great idea, I have always been a fan of punkbuster and have always supported it in other online games, it's about the best option you can have for cheat protection and has the option of hardware bans as well as IP bans. Nothing will ever be perfect but punkbuster is as close as you can come to keeping up with the latest hacks etc so good on them for this one.
Cities - I have always thought that to have 2 large capital cities is better than having multiple cities anyway. This turns the battles for those cities even MORE epic is scale and importance. Fully support this decision.
Classes - Disappointing, but a very mature decision by Mythic to do this and announce it at this stage. Shows they are in it for the long term and continue their degree of honesty with the potential fanbase. As much as we may not want to hear it, I would prefer they did this now than throw the classes in half done like some other recent games we could mention.
-In summary they made the mature and correct decision, and props to them for announcing this now to the public and explaining their reasons. Whatever backlash they receive because of this, would be nothing compared to the problems and bad press that would occur had they not done this and left unfinished classes and cities in at release.
Where have we heard all this before... "oh it will not make launch, but will be added later"
I am so sick off mmos today!
So by your logic no game or even program will ever be released. If a developer wait to have everything they wanted in a program before release would now just be getting the first everquest. A program is like any other product, you can't work on it forever to you think it's perfect.
It seems there are some big idiots. 4 captial cities cut means just that, they were cut. Not the realm they were connected to. There is still plenty to do, and the cap cities is NOT the only siege content. There are keeps too. A city isn't suppose to be sieged for a few months anyway in the game.
If your sick of this Draccen just kill yourself now. It's happens in every product area. Just more noticed in the programming world.
Cities doesnt bother me.
Classes I'm abit pissed off about - mainly because its 2 tank and 2 dps ones, meaning the 2 forms of melee classes. Yet casters are happy as larry, which is abit of a pissabout considering I'm not a caster person at all. Therefore giving less choice to melee fans. But if its a decision that will help the overall game
But Punkbuster is the main issue. I cannot stand that "software", it does nothing but hinder those who genuinly want to play the game. I mean the damn thing now decides it wants to run in the background 24/7 whether your on a game or not.
What saddens me the most in all of this is that the "feel" will be gone. It's really going to be a war between Chaos and Empire, with the rest of the races on the sideline.
Good point. Does Vanguard have their Inquistor and Berserker yet???
Do we know of any games that removed professions, promising them at a later date and really did add them in?
WOW!!!! what a let down all this time and you guys decide to ditch four cities and four classes?
I personally would rather you push the game to mid 2009.
I can see it now, i'm a greenskin fighting through all the Dwarf/skin tiers to finally be rewarded with the Human city to sack? wtf
I've been following WAR for so long..... maybe i'll sub sometime in 2010 when four cities and four classes make it back in.
Till then i'll be playing Eve and maybe WotLK
No orcs in a warhammer game. What the hell are they thinking? I don't even care about the classes themselves being gone so much as what thier removal means in terms of the IP. The cities though, that sucks--I don't even understand how they can cut 4 cities out when the whole point of the game is fighting over those cities. They might as well cut all the races other than chaos and empire. Extremely disheartening news, even the biggest fans now are questioning whether to get this game.
Sure WAR isn't going to have everything i want right away and that does disappoint me. It disappoints me because i expected more from Mythic. However, I still think the game is going to be damn fun. They still have done a better job of getting things they wanted into the game then most other companies. It's not like they started the game without any form of meaningful pvp or talked about having Hero Classes and then never did anything about it.
think about this GW was informed about this.......they have been breathing over the shoulder of Mythic the entire time (not a bad thing but i couldn't think of another "example") GW understands this and why this will be good for the game...sure i am pissed like everyone else, but overall this WAS A GOOD MOVE and the game will benefit and there are still TONS of classes and now we just get another expansion or patch to add MORE content which, sure was going to be at launch, but now think about it walking through the greenskin and highelf cities for the first time with everyone going " OMG this is SWEET"
i am keeping my pre-order and will still enjoy this game even with my order class (KoTBS) cut...
Exactly!!
For those who say you'd rather they delay the game than release without the cities and classes, here's what you do:
Stop whining. Pretend they are taking your advice. Don't buy the game when it is released. If they have added the cities and classes by next summer, buy the game then.
(Actually, you'll probably be back in this same position by then either way, falling in love with games that don't exist yet and hating everything that is actually real. But to each his own.)
sup funcom
What is your advice for when they have to spend the first 6-8 months fixing bugs and balancing the content before they can even start to add this stuff back in, and then what if they think they can add this as an expansion and charge for it??
PUNKBUSTER No way in hell installing that on my PC.
oh shut up
there are only 2 failures:
1. you
2. a company that keeps everything under NDA until the very last day
if you played AoC you probably felt ripped off and lied to, well thats what happened
i dont see it here, do you?
and what about "will come later" (for the capitals) and "might come later" (for the classes) dont you understand?
i cant believe you actually posted that shit
unrelated,
as for punkbuster.. i cant say im pleased to hear about it
then again WoW has a one silently running.. you just dont hear about it
and they will probably do more server-side than client-side..
so waiting eagerly for the game ;)
i just hope the animations are great for a 2008 MMO.. they really do make a difference imo
Well, I am saddened by the news. But, my White Lion is still in there.
I don't know what to think right now. First thing that hit me was 'here we go again'...just like all the other games out there that turn out to be a disappointment.
But, at least they were honest and told us up front. I can respect that. I will prolly still get the game upon release...unless more bad news hits us. Then I will wait. Depressing.
Did vanguard have the backing of a company like EA? lol no it had SOE, yea great company to be backed by. And was vanguard as popular as WAR is? Nope. So you fail.
Look at what they plan for the cities, they plan on fixing any problems found with the current cities and put them in the ones not in yet. So we will just get better and better cities. God so much fucking whining these days. No wonder emo music is so popular.
Ouch so the only good news is that we can't cheat?
2 cities could be a bad thing. Thats one of the things I hated about EQ2. Also performance sucked in cities with half the server in one zone.
Still looking forward to the game and I am glad they will not put something broken into the game. That would be much worse then dropping something but at the same I am disappointed by the news.
Thanks Mythic. Seriously, thank you. If they think it's not fun, not good enough, rich and fabulous then don't put them at launch. I don't care about people who whines about "Meh, not my fav char and city then I won't play, *buh buh... snoty nose* ".
I'm really glad they made this hard decision in the name of good and fair play.
And I thank them again for being honest to us.
Cheers to Mythic!!!
blah this cutting content is retarded
i already beta'ed the Choppa.. give us what is promised.. this is silly
FINISH THE GAME ... THEN RELEASE
Why? Also a program is never finished. Especially a MMO. Cutting content is not retarded. If you think so, stop using any electronic device now. Since every program as something cut from it in development.
Oh and any if they complain about PB still be on when not playing a game. DISABLE IT. Not hard. Not to mention who cares if it's running? Not like it's a virus scanning actually taking up a good amount of resources.
You = /wrist.
Well... I haven't tested/played the game so I don't know what I'm missing or gaining from this cut but I'll save my judgement till I play beta. Punkbuster is a good decision.
Did they say not to long ago that they just needed to polish things up a bit and the game state was amazing and awesome?
I agree that some of the classes might not have been as iconic as some of the others (althoug I dare say that Hammerers are very iconic!), but they were still there to make sure that all aspects of combat were represented with each race.
I've hear time and time again how the developers of WAR have been talking about wanting a great launch of the game; how many potential players will be lost after this announcement? I fear it will be a lot, as a large amount of those players are die-hard fans of the warhammer universe and when you make such important parts of the universe unavailable to them, they won't come. Having everyone fighting for control of Altdorf and the Inevitable City will kill the race pride, which so many of the fans love. Not all dwarves and elves wants to fight to save the empire and not their own capital cities, same goes for the greenskins and the dark elves.
If we assume that all 750.000+ beta applicants are going to buy the game when it comes out, then we won't be lacking players at all... "focused" does not equal "better". Having too many players concentrated in one place will most likely create lag-spike upon lag-spike and also make it all the more confusing.
I just can't see why this is suddenly being announced?! It goes against everything Mythic has been preaching all the time! Take your time and get the thing right from the start, not go all EA on us and release a game which isn't done. (I'm not saying it's EA making Mythic get the game out before it's finished, as Mark said EA didn't know anything about it before the announcement was made.)
Lastly, I'll end this post with a citation of our very own Mark Jacobs (from the autumn-delay-announcement, I believe. :
Did they say not to long ago that they just needed to polish things up a bit and the game state was amazing and awesome?
And? They could of noticed during the polishing that those classes are were they want them to be. Deh deh deh.
Mythic, thank you for your honesty in letting us know this before we have commited our dollars. Unlike Funcom with Age of Conan, you have given us the facts and ample time to decide if we will cancel or keep our pre-orders. Your candor has made me very glad that I have the CE on pre-order, and I for one look forward to adventuring in your lands.
Based on what I have read about WAR and seeing DAoC mentioned, I have recently purchased DAoC and am enjoying it. Seeing y'all learn from your mistakes and successes gives me a positive feeling. Thank you.
I was very much looking forward to playing a Hammerer first; I will be making a White Lion instead. My Blackguard character will be replaced with a Chosen. I look forward to playing the missing classes when and if you can fix them and add them back to the game. I prefer melee over casting, but can adapt. I will view this as having something to look forward to.
It was not easy for you to admit you will have to leave promised content out of this game, but you found the courage to do just that. Thank you. I for one prefer to have a more polished exerience on release for I prefer Quality over Quantity. Age of Conan's broken quests, lack of promised DX10, stealth removal of mature content (DX10, nudity, and sexual themes are on the box), major class "rebalancing", lack of endgame content, and female melee attack speed bugs have all left a sour taste in my mouth. Your honesty and preference for quality ensure you will get my money instead of Funcom.
Someday my Hammerer will make those greenskins pay. I trust you to make that happen in time. I can wait.
Its better to have a great game, then a game that could have been great. I think AoC and VG has proven that. I'm glad they are taking things out that they just couldn't fix instead of just throwing in broken classes and ideas like every other game.
DAoC has so many classes, but most of them are pretty worthless. There are constant complaints about classes being gimp, but they are ignored. I think they learned a valuable lesson from that. I hope they did, anyways. There is no sense in having classes that are going to be a drain on everyone.
I actually think I would have rather seen them delay the game once more than remove all that they have. However, as long as I have the satisfaction of knowing that these things will see further treatment and will reappear in the game is good enough I guess. I'm still bummed out though.
This was very surprising and I'd be lying if I didn't say also disappointing news. I have to think Mythic did not make this decision without a great deal of struggle to avoid it.
But as others have pointed out, Mythic is sticking to what they said they wouild do. They have been making a game the way they want, even if that means losing players. They've said they're not trying to "Kill WoW", they're trying to make a solid game. The rationale for their decisions is logical, even they are disappointing.
On the other hand, it's practically a tradition in MMORPGs to release garbage content before it's ready then patching the bugs. I wonder if we should really be that upset at a company that is trying not to that even though they know it might cost them some sales. Maybe MMORPGs might be better off if this was this business model was used more often.
And now that I think about it, it would take a lot worse news than this to make me pre-order WotLK and go back to WoW.
With all EA's money and resources and years under development, Mythic should have more than 2 capital cities in WAR. That is just BORING !! I dont care how good the cities are (I am side A and you are side B, yeah right).
In addition, Mythic had plenty of time to balance those 4 cut classes. What a cop out.
I can't see WAR ending up as anything but a simplistic cookie cutter WOW clone.
I was sitting on the fence about this game, but probably would have bought it. Certainly won't now.
Where have we heard all this before... "oh it will not make launch, but will be added later"
I am so sick off mmos today!
Unfortunately that is all too true Draccan, I myself would like to see them add the removed content but only time will tell on that.
Actually, dealing with punkbuster doing this is easy to get rid of. Just use admin tools on your PC and Disable it. from there if you need it to run a game say battlefield 2, do a manual start. sure is minorly tedious, but yes it does the trick and I hate punkbuster for running the way it does, but with the wide range of MMO hackers out there these days, anything to get rid of the pieces of crap works for me.
I am a big WARHAMMER fan... have played the tabletops for 20 years and tons of their side games... name one I played it when I was younger..
I also have been a staunch defender online for WAR... but I am sick and tired of large corporations like EA Mythic copping out on their mmo.. I cant tell you how frustrated I am. WAR was the last hope for 2008 for a decent mmo to come out.
This cut is pretty big. First of all two capitols is like nothing content wise. Secondly the cutting of classes just shows how Mythic with EA backing is not using EA money to make an even larger, more impressive mmo but take the easy way out to cash in on the WARHAMMER IP. Really they could have built and built on this for a year and then released. Instead they just go greedy today.
the cut of classes is killing the game lore wise. I mean no orcs, no knights of the empire, but include "classes" like witch hunters?!??!?!
Fanboys of WAR can turn this around in any way they want, but this is making me sick to my stomach. They have no desire for a making a good game obviously.
blah blah blah...
mmo business = fail
The fact that they will bring the other cityes into game later on, Give it good replay value. So im ok with.
Im not that ok with cutting away 4 classes. that was bad =( they have to bring them back later after lunche
warhammer without ORCS??????
hahahahhahahaa
FAIL
Extremely disappointing. First they say crafting is basically limited to potions, and now half the game goes up in a poof of smoke. I'll keep watching but my hype for WAR is dropping rapidly.
Wow there is a bunch of retards here. Yea half the content is cut... ok. How so? The realms for them are STILL THERE. The only thing is is the captial cities. There were what 2 dunegons connected to each. Whoope doo.
These were my thoughts exactly after reading the article. I like the honesty. Great job Mythic.
The MMO community always seems to explode when developers aren't truthful and forthcoming with their information (I won't mention any names, but we all know who they are). Mythic seems to be the total opposite and tells us everything, and people still explode. Is it such a mystery why others other developers are so close-mouthed? They are damned if they do and damned if they don't when up against the whining.
Again, good job Mythic. You are on the right course. This is one I'll be trying at release.
Everyone should be thankful that this announcement was made MONTHS in advance of the game's launch and not weeks or even days, as some MMO companies have done in the past.
Two large and well done cities will aways outshine 6 average ones any day, and losing 4 classes is hardly the end of the world. Sounds to me like Mythic is quite aware of the state of their game and are setting realistic launch goals.
Sounds like all the tiers and zones are intact, with a few cities and classes put on the back burner until they can be perfected.
Again, you can't say that Mythic isn't being upfront and responding to their own product. Far better to do that than put out a half finished game and make people pay for it for six months while they work out the kinks.
Remember that this is not a game that has been launched, so no one is out any money or time.
How the hell can you have Greenskins with no Orcs Boyz?
Seriously makes no sense at all. Whatever.
Easy, Choppa wasn't up to the quailty the devs wanted. There is still the black orc.
warhammer without ORCS??????
hahahahhahahaa
FAIL
Ummm.....Black Orcs are still in the game.....not just you, but somehow a few people came away with the idea that orcs were eliminated. Not orcs, one of the orc careers. Read folks.
Unfortunately that is all too true Draccan, I myself would like to see them add the removed content but only time will tell on that.
I think MMO devs need to stop letting us in on the creative process of game development. Of course ideas are going to be ammended, augmented or eliminated in this type of a massive project. If they just kept their big mouths shut, we would never have even known these classes and cities would have even existed.
We've been conditioned to believe that when a business puts something out there for the public, it has already gone thru the creative process and has been set in stone. Until mmo's, this was pretty true. But mmo's have developed a new marketing tactic that gives us a window into the process from A to Z.
I think that marketing strategy has failed epically. Considering VG, AoC and now Warhammer, they have and will all feel the huge negative impacts from this innovative, yet disfunctional advertising plan.
I say the development period should practice silence. Then 1 week or maybe 2 before launch, tell us about the game features. We would have no clue about ideas that ended up on the cutting room floor and be a lot happier with our lollipop.
In this way, you wouldn't create a population of people attached to a feature that for whatever reason, doesn't make it into the game.
The only other option would be to educate the entire mmo game population about the nature of give and take on a huge multimillion dollar project spanning years. But somehow, I doubt a certain segment would ever understand.
Unfortunately this seems to be the norm in today's network centric software delivery system. Write incomplete code today for an update on Tuesday. While none of us will REALLY know what went on behind the scenes. EA/Mythic announced this today knowing full well they will loose a percentage of their potential customer base to WoW or Lotro. While I personally would not have played this game ever. It's par for the course on most online game development these days to over promise and under deliver. AoC has really made alot of people hesitant to put down any money for a new mmo. They have single handedly damaged any launch with a hint of not delivering on what was promised, and Mythic just said they would cut a large section of the core game out. I would not want to be in that office today.
Lol....... That would never work. It's not just the mmo game populations that needs some educations it's all of modern society. Whinning has become the complete norm. So pretty much being a wuss is promated and being a real man is hugely frown on. I take being a actual MAN then to fitting with the fags I mean cool people.
I say this is good. Less whiners at launch to deal with.
18 classes, really how many games start with 18 classes? You are extremely lucky you are getting that many.
I am just amazed at all the thoughtless whiners on this thread. If you can't find a class you like in one of those 18 you have issues, namely you should not be playing a MMO.
gah i had my heart set on being an orc choppa
I cant believe this lol, I have waited so long for this game.
Set back after set back, year after year.
And now they are going to do something like this? This is just terrible, sorry mythic but im cancelling my pre-order.
But on the otherhand I could buy the game and play my most wanted class "chosen" but im sorry, im not going to buy Warhammer online until the game comes with all the features/classes/towns. Next thing we know, right before release. "we are sorry but we had to take tradeskills out because they just wasn't good enough". bla bla bla.
I remember mark jacobs saying "we are not going to release the game until we think its ready" umm ok Im not seeing this here anywhere.... obivously if they are leaving out 4 classes and 4 out of the 6! towns. THE GAME IS NOT FINISHED.
I just wouldn't ever believe mythic would do something like this! I could have seen it before EA bought them out but now that they have one of the biggest gaming companies backing them up, this is rediculous.
Punkbuster is little more than invasive malware.
It indiscriminantly scans your memory and reports data back to punkbuster servers. It's worse than the warden.
It's also very easy to work around. And it's also very easy to exploit and make other people trip the system (false positive). All you have to do is post a string that would normally be found in a known cheating program, be it on a website or IRC or chat and it will think you are trying to cheat. Even balance's solution? Don't run other programs at the same time as a Punkbuster enabled game.
Completely unacceptable.
20 classes actually
I am sad. Very sad.
For those saying that the 18 or so classes is adequate for any MMO standard.. This is WAR. It is not some cookie cutter MMO. The IP is very very rich to draw from. I thought they were going to be faithful to the IP? We all can understand the tweaks to the IP like Zealots and Disciples of Khaine for game balance in MMOs. They can't make the tanks and dps melee classes fun?
Did they ask Games Workshop how they made these units fun for their games?
Well i suspect they will be spending precious work hours explaining to us of their decision and how these changes will be retooled and rebalanced.
Lets make the game GREAT by having an Ironbreaker, Witchunter, Bright wizard and Archmage against a Witch Elf, Black Orc, Squig herder and Zealot. Less classes= better if they are really great.
Funny I played WoW for 2 years and never saw this happen..infact guards usually wiped out most people before they could do much damage. I think You might want to Stop Trolling at this point. WoW was never even designed as a PvP game and it certaintly wasnt' designed for City Sieges its completely possible a large guild COULD lock a city down if there was any reason to other than annoying. WAR on the other hand IS design specifically for City Sieging 200 people can't hold down an Entire Teir, a Keep, and storm the Gates at the same time.
I too was looking forward to some good news when I got up this morning, but alas it is not to be. Still, it's not all bad as I wasn't really looking to play any of the classes they cut, probably because there wasn't / isn't much info on them and a lot of the other class sound really cool / interesting / fun to play.
I was really looking forward to exploring all the capital cities though, so I'm bit disappointed about that. At least on the plus sideAltdorf
I guess my main concern is what the removal of those four classes will do to the overall distribution of players among the archetypes. Are we going to see less tanks and melee DPS overall, or will the up till now Choppa, Blackguard, Hammerer, and KotBS players simply choose to play the other Tank / Melee DPS class of that faction? I guess only time (and maybe some polls) will tell.
Also, KnightTrue, you owe me $478; 1 braincell = $1. Seriously, do you even know ANYTHING about WAR, or game development? Wait, don't answer that, I already know the answer is a resounding NO.
OMG - *re-reads article*
OMG guys, WTF!!! Do I see actual honesty and realistic goals being used in relation to an upcoming launch?!!?! I can't believe this. A company just came out and told me the truth. I'm actually still in shock from reading it. I mean the very thought of being told the truth has me just...just...stunned.
This actually makes me want to buy the game more. Is that odd? I mean here we have a company that has pushed and pushed back the launch date for the sake of what I thought to be quality. And then just when I think the extensions are superficial and not truly needed (i.e. to polish off insignificant CE extras), they drop this bombshell of an interview and actually admit that some major concepts of the game simply aren't finished. KUDOS to you Mythic...KUDOS indeed!
To those of you who are unhappy with the announcement I simply pose the question - what would you do? You have a product with potential. You know how important launch is. Do you do like every other game we b*tch and moan about, and go ahead with the launch revealing piss poor, half @ssed, unfinished main line concepts OR do you admit that reality beat fantasy with a stick; as it relates to game production, and it won't be ready?
I see the problem with doing this from reading some of the responses. Mythic really is damned if the do or damned if they don't. If they go ahead with the release of poorly polished cities and "not great" classes then the masses will complain. If they withhold the classes and cities in an attempt to polish them, then the masses complain about that. Just seems like a giant Mexican stand-off and Mythic is the only gun-slinger without a gun.
The ONLY question I'd have, would be if there is a time line AFTER launch for these cut back features/classes/cities to be implemented. If they slap that "indefinite" amount of time tag on the previously mentioned components THEN I could see myself getting angry, but for now I'm quite satisfied with the move. Again, KUDOS MYTHIC!
I am just glad a company had some honesty and told us what was going right and what was going wrong, and they had the balls to make a tough decision they KNEW would get flamed. Regardless I am going to buy it, Mythic is awesome and as an avid Warhammer Fantasy/40K enthusiast all I have to say is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH!!!!!
Kudos to Mark and Mythic for the honesty. I am sad to hear about every thing that has been cut though. I'm worried about what effect the lack of cities will have on the non-Empire/Chaos areas. I know that the cites will be put in eventually so I'm not too worried though. As for the classes I'm torn about what this really means. On one hand to does signal that Mythic is commited to ensuring the best possible quiality for every aspect of the game. Om the other hand removing four classes froma a game after they have been annouced can't be good from a PR standpoint. The alreadt determined WAR haters will be ceamented in their opinions and a few people on the edge might be driven off. The only thing Mythic can know is assure that the game is a hit. A strong launch with good reviews will help bring people back into the fold.
On the brighter side of things the fact that Mythic is making this cuts provide fairly strong evidence that they have locked in on the September release.
well mythic you lost me. My favorite class is gone. I'm glad i didnt waste 80$ on a pre order.
Wow... look at all the babies complaining. If the game launched with incomplete classes/cities, these same babies would be complaining about balancing classes and unfished content and saying they should have waited longer instead of launching on time. I applaud the honesty of the developer and they are very focused on quality control. I think this is the right mentality to develop a mmo and they will make the game and classes scalable so they can keep on adding finished content and classes as its ready for public play. As for people complaining about punkbuster, I guess you'll have to stop downloading porn while playing your games... oh well.
I wasnt sure if I was actually going to play this game but now I think I will give it a shot. Finally, some honesty and decisions being made. They aren't promising the moon... they are promising something realistic. Now to decide which class to play.
I think one of the possible problems is that some of the postponed classes are using new mechanics that may have posed a tough design challenge. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that a combination of the new mechanics paired with a difficulty to balance the class with those mechanics in place, was the reason for the lost ground as far as class development. (Atleast for two of the classes)
For example the Blackguard's new Hate mechanic.
QFT
This is why I love Mythic as a company. just look at the difference between them and Funcom, it's a gaping chasm. If Funcom had been making Warhammer and made these same decisions they would have been telling the community and the beta testers not to worry, the other stuff is being internaly tested, is fine and will be in at launch. Then lo and behold come launch it would all be missing, which is exactly what they have done with Aoc. My hat is off to Mythic for their honesty and integrity, good job guys, I always thought that War would be a great game and now I'm even more sure of it.
130 something replies already and I am still going to add my two sense to this, even though no one will probably read it.
I am a big Mythic fan, which is why I was going to try out Warhammer. I never played Warhammer before and never really got into it.
I am very dissatisfied that they are taking the captical cities away, except two. They seem to be very insensitive to the fact that some of us get into our characters, RP or not and prefer to stick with our own races cities. A lot of us could care less what in game benefits we get if they are directly lore related and make sense for us to get.
Taking away classes is displeasing as well. Again, you are taking things away that you said would make it at launch.
After Vanguard, AoC, and etc. you never want to release something you said would make it out on release. So it is good that they are letting us know these things won't make it. It is also good they are doing what they have to in order to get things right.
With release right around the corner, how do they really expect to get things "fabulous" in just 3 short months when they were having so much problems with the game, they needed to cut 4 cities and 4 classes?
No matter if this is a good decision or not, it will leave a bad taste in peoples mouths. It just shows a general disrespect for people who get into the lore of the game and require things to be the way they should be. It is the burden of taking on an IP. You need to get these things right, because this game will also trigger the buying of Warhammer books and other games. If people see, and they will, that WAR doesn't stack up the way the rest of the IP material is, this game will get a lot of flack.
I think Mythic should delay this game until they can put all 6 cities in the game and the 4 classes they are taking out. I'm the consumer, so I don't care about their money problems and what not. Hire the talent you need and get it done. You sold out to EA for god sake, you should have the money now to make this game work the way you intended by release. Hell, DAoC was a fantastic game and had many capital cities, races, and classes. Granted the graphics aren't as good as WAR's will be and the combat won't be as fluid, and WAR will have more featueres; but the point is that Mythic has created a complete game before and should do it again.
This sounds like a cop out to me and I honestly though I was going to see a "just joking" at the end or something.
I'm not sure I will be buying this game at release now. You know I'm not the only one thinking about not buying at release. Was it worth the guaranteed loss of release buyers? I guess time will tell.
like a ton of people said in the aoc forums, how many games are released with flaws, bugs, glitched, and missing content? all of them. The fanbois/trolls precious WAR is no different. Now 6 cities to 2, and dropping 4 classes *im guessing it wasnt as many as EQ2 to begin with* can't be a good thing, infact, I think it's fair to say that is a straight bad thing. However, games will be games, developers will make promises and break them, and players will still buy, play, complain, and quit games like clockwork.
If I were a WAR fan, I'd just hope they make the rest of the game incredibly amazing.
I completely agree. Depending on who you are; better news would have been to delay the game for another year to get things right and all in by launch. Not everyone is in NEED to play a game. Some of us are happy in the games we are in, while others are quite happy not playing any game, but would have tried this game because of all the stuff it will have in it. Well, Mythic just took at 2/3 of the cities, which is a big deal to many people, and 4 classes, which people should know by now is a huge deal, since people become attached to classes.
Yeah, I'd rather have them push the release back. It would have been better news than this.
I personally think its good news in this fashion: What usually drags a game down those first few months is having porely designed and polished content. There are usually big holes in levels in the game and things just get boring because so much effort was put into the first 10 or 20 levels that the final 10 or 15 levels get little to no love.
Vanguard was probably the best example of a potentially great game that tried to do too much for release and as a result everything sucked and was ruined. The game has never recovered and at this point I highly doubt ever will.
I see this more as getting rid of the dead weight dragging the game down and focusing on the absolute essentials to get a good base game finished. If they actually finish this content then it should only take them a month or two at most to work out all the major release bugs and challenges and get back to adding in all the missing content such as the other capitol cities.
I am personally ready for a game to do it right for once and am hoping and praying that perhaps this one will be the one for me. The last game I got any real true long term enjoyment from playing was EQ and I quit that one back in 2005 I think.
As far as people not buying the game solely because of this announcement...more people would have simply quit the game in the first month if they had proceeded along the path of just putting out six crappy cities instead of 2 really good cities than they might lose from people not buying the game because there are only 2 cities. That first impression of a game does more to make or break a game than lots of crappy content just because it was initially promised.
So I guess it comes down to just this...
No company makes a complete game or atleast implements everything they promised before launch at release.
Therefore, Mythic is neither better nor worse than any other company in this aspect.
However, Mythic atleast came to us and were upfront about what was going on, telling us exactly what they were doing and how the game was coming along.
So, if I had to choose between a company that breaks promises but tells me why before I buy the game, or a company which breaks promises and doesn't tell me squat.
Guess I'll support the honest company, cause atleast I won't have to deal with any suprises in the future.
You can bitch all you want about cities being delayed and classes getting cut, I can live without my Hammerer, cause theres a crapload of other classes to play, which is more than I can say for WoW with its identical twins on both sides.
That's the burden of owning a IP license. Things must be right. I'd rather see them release only Empire and Chaose at release and introduce the other races, classes, and cities through expansions and preserve the integrity of the IP than to see them butcher the IP in the name of quality and an earlier release date.
Make no mistake, I will not tolerate a low quality game, nor am I asking them to release it before it's ready. But that's just it, if the game isn't ready for all the races to have their cities and classes, then the game either needs to cut the races and cities affiliated with them or delay the game until they can put them in correctly.
You can't spin an Elf giving two coppers about the rize or fall of a human city as a believable or good thing. Mythic needs to think about the integrity of the IP.
A number of people seem to be saying they should have pushed back the release, but I don't think that really would have helped in the case of the classes. From the way I read it the classes got cut not just because they simply weren’t balanced or polished, but because they where fundamentally broken in some way, which means the devs would have had to go back to the drawing board, and who knows how long that would take.
As for the cities, yeah it’s a shame they won’t be in at launch, but like has been said, the 2 cities that are left will be better than they otherwise would have been, and the devs can learn form what happens in the live game to make the other cities even better; so in the end it’s a benefit, and it probably won’t take much longer to get them in the game after launch than it would have taken if they delayed it; again.
If these where the only real reasons why they would have delayed the game then I think they made the right decision in shelving these 4 classes and cities instead. From everything I have heard form Mark and the other WAR devs I get a strong impression that they know what they are doing, so if they say it's not ready and needs to but cut from the game for the time being I am willing to trust their judgement on that. Besides, everything else is still there (assuming there is in no more bad news to come), all the game play mechanics and types are still there, so at the end of the day (or 6 months to a year) does it really matter if this stuff is in at launch or added within that time?
And if you really need those cities / classes to have fun in the game then simply don’t buy it till they are added; hey, you wanted it delayed anyway.
I have to say that I agree with this post. With that said, it doesn't matter when they announce the game, if it is based on an IP, it must maintain the integrity of that IP. From what I can tell, and that isn't much, races in Warhammer have race pride. I would think the other races wouldn't be rushing to the Empire/Chaos cities the way it will be played out.
Still skeptical of this game & waiting to see wtf mythic will finally decide to do. A pvp game anyone can jump into with massive warfare from the get-go and beautiful siege battles still sounds to me: too good to be true. I don't believe it and they'll need to prove it.
As for the annoucement, this is what I hear: Expansion Pack-Dwarves! Expansion Pack-Dark Elves! Expansion Pack-High Elves!! Expansion Pack- Greenskins!! Now complete with cities and all new classes!!
I also hear: We're in an hurry, just go with what we've got and hope it doesn't seem too identical to Stormwind & Orgrimarr. It'll work great, we think, we don't know, better just go with 2, it'll work great, if there's problems only 2 citys to fix, which will work great, maybe, we think, we don't know, we cant fix it live, well we can but that'd be harder, 4th quarter's INC!, put more dungeons in, it's a RVR game, still need double the dungeons (that sounds like PVE), no no it's pvp only you fight against npc and raid bosses, what?, it'll work great, well maybe, we don't know, just put these 2 out for now, these tanks seem similar, so do these dps classes, we better ditch them, really?? we worked for months on those, the armor's the same only this class's armor is black & that guy's is silver, it'll work great, we think.
I still have no idea what to think of this game. So Mythic "doesn't lie to the players", that's because their products didn't have the character, emersion, and mass appeal that Blizzard's do. E.A. Mediocre Entertainment, "we no lie, but no one cared".
Hi all,
Im not especially happy with the whole thing. I'm ok that they are dropping stuff because its not right but I have this nagging feeling this will turn into a money making exercise down the road.
At the end of the day if the game is good who gives a ....
For the people calling for a delay, this game is already on the backfoot, just wait till all those must buy games on the horizon arrive (starcraft 2, fable 2, spore), WAR got a subscription model it just doesn't need to win me over at the start it needs to keep winning me. The later this show starts the sooner it might end.
Regards,
Oglem
I played Warhammer tabletop for years.
Warhammer was NEVER about a collective good vs Evil.\
Many battles are fought between the evil and good.
Elves vs Dwarf.
Greenskin vs Skaven
Each race was it's OWN side.
This throwing all factions together in 2 cities really looses the Warhammer feel for me.
Sides have allied, BUT they were seperate, and not always allies.
This seems to be yet again going down the path of promise but no delivery.
What is wrong with MMO companies that they can't get a game out on time?
These companies seem to be waisting tons of cash.
Well what can I say?
Must admit I was slightly disappointed with the news but, not too the point of crying in my cereal.
Will I still buy the game, sure cant see why I wouldn’t.
Atm there is a massive rift in the MMO market, WOW walks around with a effing great crown on its head and 10 million subs, AOC seems to generate massive amounts of hate and rage. And now WAR comes into the firing line because of cut content before release.
Please people try and be subjective.
I sat and I played WOW now for nearly 3 and a half years, do I consider it a great game?
It had its moments but after such a long time and tbh a lack lustre expansion I'm more than ready to move on and try something new. AOC really didn’t appeal to me and having seen some of the chaos that came with its launch I’m glad I didn’t jump straight in (firm believer in giving things a chance maybe in a few months).
WAR has been the one game that has truly drawn me towards playing MMO's again.
Anyway back to the topic. Kind of sad the classes got clipped but not being the type of player who only ever plays just one class, and the fact there’s still 20 of them with different play styles I cant understand those who are crying about losing the one class they where going to play?
Some of the "That’s it I’m not buying your game cause you removed XXXX is worrying. Sure we can get disappointed when something we are looking forward to doesn’t have the feature we so desire, but seriously out of all the classes you only wanted to play one??"
Play a different one, you never know you might enjoy it or don’t buy the game it really is your choice.
As far as I’m concerned this isn’t all bad news and not really much of a surprise either (name a Modern MMO that came out with all the planned content intact) - but at least they have been honest about it for that they deserve some credit.
Will be watching WAR closely, if after these pre release cuts, the final product is still sub par then they will lose my custom. But atm the thought of some decent PVP still has my interest piqued.
I was looking forward to war till the cut. -shrug- sounding too much like a vanguard thing now, all those promises and no delivery. I cancelled both my CE of it, but if I hear good things after it's release I might consider getting the regular version.
I rarely post here.
Im a fan of the warhammer tabletop and was soooo lokking forward to this.
Maybe im just dumb, i dont know. But to me i seems that they move step by step away from the game and the universe im in love with.
I dont know if EA takes a part in this here. But the more i read .. the more i fear.
I haven't played games online - but I have played RPG computer games - I think that Mythic is doing the right thing - as a beginner MMO player (but experienced Warhammer player) I would rather have things working in the cities and have a career that will go somewhere to begin with. I will still playe even though my Woodelves are not represented (yet!?). Their decisions tell me thety want this game to fun and keep the players happy.
MiLindi
All Cities are in at release according to a new interview being posted at Tentonhammer this weekend.
Someone needs to lose their job over this. Either at Mythic or someone who interviewed them.
So, now some races have 4 classes and some have 3, and only 2 races actually have capitol cities? What fucking BS.
And they've had that british idiot babbling on about how awesome the game is, never once mentioning that these things were iffy.
Way to mislead your community guys....pure faggotry.
I look at like this..quality over quantity.. nice to have both but if you had to choose one then obviously quality is best. They can always add quality content/classes later.plus.. there are 20 classes still lol. Its not like we have lost 2/3 of the game content...the people saying that kind of stuff are being a bit emo. To me those classes looked sucky. Now I haven't played them but if they are going by what the beta test ppl were likeing and looking at the classes not being played, then it was a good move.
There are so many other classes that look sooo fricken awesome!
I can't wait for this game.
What is it rexactly that you think that I should lose my job for? The interview that I reported was the interview given: bottom line.
I do appreciate your calling for my job though. That's always a great thing to read.
I wanted to play a Choppa! ordered a collector's edition and now I can't play my favourite class
I'm very angry with this I hope they put my class atleast in his first patch! or I'm not going to renew my subscription till they include Choppa's.
Look at these interent geniuses! A company screws up a large part of their game and just because they honestly tell you they did it, its all good in the hood!
So if someone was about to stab you with an ice pick, but six months before they did they warned you, wouldn't you still be a little pissed off?
Lets say little old ViciousEXE here wants to be an empire tank character. I'm not into greenskins or whatever the heck the white lion thing is or Dwarfs and I know everybody and their brother is gonna be chaos. So what am I to do? I can't wear my damn heavy armor and swing my virtual broadsword around now can I?
Doesn't it stand to reason that in this day and age in an mmo every race can have a tank class that wears heavy armor? I mean if anything don't give one to the orcs or the dark elves, races that have a combat doctrine that lends itself less to heavy armor, but Empire! Cmon! Where talking big mean german inspired knights here!
People who are sad about the changes to the game are not crying or b@tching, we are the ones who wanted to play this game and are mortified that this happened. If I just hated this game and never wanted to play it, would I be here, braving the innards of the cesspool of the internet, the mmorpg.com boards?
As far as damaging the IP, read the premise of the when the mmo takes place. At this time in WAR history
the Elves are a dying race the dwarves are in heavy decline and the Empire is the major power in the
world. Chaos is the main threat to the world, and the Dark elves are only concerned with wiping out the
High elves. The Greenskins are being manipulated by the Dark elves to occupy the dwarves who are
honor bound to help the Empire (which they are doing against the hordes of Chaos). The High elves are
reluctant ,but agree to help the Empire dividing there forces. The main powers are The Empire and the
Chaos forces. It makes since that the majority of the fighting is happening around Altdorf and Inevitable
City. They can and will add the other cities , but that can be done in episodic fashion. Im not worried about
the game and this was a good decision although it does suck , epically for those who wanted to play one
of the delayed classes, but there are still 20 classes to choose from. The good thing about only two
capitals is that the RVR will be very heavy and alot of massive battles. When they add other cities the
battles will shift as the players all move to try a new place to siege. Good, bad or indifferent we shall see
when the game launches, but the lore of this IP has alot of room for growth which makes for a healthy f
uture for any MMO if the Devs do there job. Mythic has a good track record and the NDA keeps me from
saying more, but in the end everyone who is interested in WAR will have to decide for themselves.
Yeah basically were getting 2/3 of the game gutted, classes removed, and now only two cities to fight/defend for. As much as i hate to admit it i was willing to buy into the hype of WAR but now i see it was just that hype. I was looking foward to starting something new, something to beat the medocrity that has befallen WoW. Do they seriously expect you to shell out cash for something that they keep cutting and scalling back just because there being honest about it doesnt make it ok.Btw i did cancel my preordered CE because you took out my Choppa, really a melee dps class how do you fubar that?
Had high hopes for this.... had.
Is this Mythic or Sony ?
Pre-order status : CANCELLED.
I just want to point out that customers are a varied bunch. Some are pickier than others. We all have different standards that we require to be met, before we shell out cash for a product. I think it is unfair to attack those that would rather delay or not play the game, since the game itself has been scaled back quite a bit from originally expected. Our opinions are just as valid as is our feelings on the matter. Calling us whiners and everything else underneath the sun doesn't help out your case any, especially when we all share the fact that we want a quality product, in common.
With that said, yes we want a company to be honest, which Mythic did. Yes, we want a quality product. Yes, we want a fun product.
However, we also want a complete product. Complete in every sense of the word. Complete as in maintaining IP integrity. Complete, as in not cutting out cities and classes, rather than delaying the game.
There is a difference between starting when the game is released and starting a year later or more. The economies are inflated by that time, content has been explored several times over and is harder to find groups for it, and stereotypes and roles being pigeon holed have already been formed. Nothing is really new after a year or more and it leaves those starting late in an endless pursuit to catch up to everyone else. So everyone saying "just wait a year and then buy the game, instead of asking for a delay" is missing the major benefit for us to delay the game; which is getting a even start with the rest of the community.
I'm a big Mythic fan and a long, and I mean long, time DAoC player. So I am not talking out of my rear or anything like that. I also gain nothing by putting off buying WAR, but it is something I have decided to do, in spite of the fact that I love Mythic and support their products. WAR just isn't shaping up to be what we were all prepared to play for the past 4 years. It is something much less now. The fact of the matter is that the classes and cities will take a lot of time to be released once the servers go live, because regular bug fixes and patches will be competing for development time for the remaining cities and classes. More than likely, the cities and classes would be released in an expansion a year from the release date.
Well this game was awful enough, i played it. Now it is being cannibalised, excellent. WoW killer ? This won't even kill AoC,
The thing is, Capitol Cities are going to be used mostly for end-game content. There are a lot of posts saying this messes up the storylines and such, but I'm in beta and I don't think it's all that pivotal to have 6 capitol cities at launch. Your character does not start his/her life in the city (this is from an interview i believe), they start it in an area designated for your race. So ya, 4 races missing their capitol cities at launch definently sucks, but it is not game breaking and does not require that much change...atleast when in concerns to early quests/storyline.
Saying they are gutting 2/3 of the game content is complete and utter ignorance.
To the first point. They have not screwed up a large part of their game. They've done just the opposite and chosen not to release what you would term to be "the screwed up part," of their game. Things are not "all good in the hood;" however, the point most are trying to make is that Mythic is one of the few companies that would actually come forward and state outright that they feel the product is incomplete as opposed to releasing it anyway and painting some grand picture like other MMO's have done. (AoC, Vanguard, etc)
The fact that you can now take the time and decide (with this new information) whether or not you want to purchase the game should be reason enough to thank Mythic. They had to realize they would lose customers over this but apparently the integrity of their product and the concern for their customers outweighed the EA lash.
To the second point. No, I wouldn't be pissed. If someone tells me 6 months in advance that they plan to do any bodily harm to me and I'm dumb enough not to prepare (i.e. starte toting a bit of steel that slings hot firah) then I deserve it - pissed or no. Summary: epic fail of an analogy.
Missed the mark on the rest or your post and have no real response.
What I think is that they talk way too much about the game announcing stuff very soon.
They should tease.. ok that's fine but explaining stuff in detail and then cutting some off. Not really hot for PR.
So if they could lay low and stop bragging about what they are pulling out and just do it we wouldnt have deceptions or peoples frustrated.
Also when you make big announcement like they called.. you should bring in good news too.. everyone knows that. And we didn't get any.
So to resume: Stop talking about what you're doing in this game and just do it. And then, when you are ready, tell us when you will release the game/OB. All I need.
Stop the uneven teasing.
While I respect your opinion, I do not agree with it, especially when it has already been stated, by Mark, that if the problems with these classes and cities could have been fixed simply by taking a bit more time then that is what they would have done.
Having developed a small text based RPG for a graphics calculator in high school I had big plans for it at the start, even throughout the initial development those plans where still in place, but things happened that I had not counted on, mainly running out of memory and not being able to come up with a way to code what I wanted given the calculators limited language, so I had to make some changes, but it still turned out pretty good in the end and was quite popular with some of the other guys in my year level, even spawning a few mods... point is, sometimes things just don't work the way you thought they would and the amount of time and money it would take to make them 'complete' just isn't worth it, especially when you doubt that those things could ever work or that they would even be any better than the alternative solution you came up with.
So, yes it sucks that there will only be 20 classes instead of 24, and there will only be 2 siege-able cities instead of 6, but that does not mean WAR will be much if any worse off as a game because of it and that simply taking more time would 'fix' everything.
NB. I say "much if any worse off" because it has also been stated, by Mark, that if the changes they have made (read: cutting 4 classes and cities) does not work (read: ruins the game) then it will be delayed while they find a way to fix it. To quote Mark "I've always said that this game will ship when it's great, I've never said it will only ship if it has 24 classes, 6 cities, 5210 quests, etc. Nothing has changed about that. If the game is great and ready to be launched, it will be launched. If it isn't, it will be held back."
Information obtained from: http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=43941
Edit: Changed the quote to the one I was originally looking for but couldn't find till I stopped looking...
Edit: Everyone should also check out > http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44469 < if they haven't yet, it will clear a lot of things up for people as there is a lot of miss information flying about here.
I only got intrested in this game 2 weeks ago.
I dont care what they did. It makes the whole story invalid. But meh.
I get the feeling that they dont like their fanbase very much. Because they complain alot
I'd still try it if they had a free trial.
ITS GONNA BE AWESOME. EVERYTHINGS AWESOME. OH YEAH.
Keep in mind this is EA-Mythic and not Mythic-EA. So this is not surprising news imo.
This bit of news is a huge turn off to WAR. After the debacle AoC was WAR was my final hope for a new MMORPG.
Looks like EA is already screwing things up.
Oh wow don t get me started on how wrong this is. WOW pvp and WARs are not remotely close to the same. Play beta and you ll know what i m saying.
No so you must scurry along right now. WAR is a game. It's meant to be fun, it's not meant to weigh you down with harsh death penalties that don't help you get right back in the fight. So for the hardcore more FFA-type players, this IS NOT your game. This is about two sides duking it out, true enough, but in way more ways than WoW.
First: WAR encourages open-field PvP combat. WoW? It's pointless and half the time you just get twenty Horde that gank and spawn camp you.
Second: WAR has the instanced side of it, comparable to WoW's BGs, but THIRTY. Compared to FOUR. Just a little more variety there so we all won't be grinding two or three eh?
Third: PvE contributes to RvR. This obviously isn't tied into direct PvP but the PvP is part of the RvR system so the PvE is too.
Fourth: Open world Keep sieging and guild possession of keeps. WoTLK will make a pathetic attempt to copy other games by adding this in the expansion.
All I can think of for now I'm tired hehe.
1) I don't see how it's true "world PvP" if zones are divided into PvP and non-PvP zones. But it's a little step up from WoW.. (sorry for using WoW as a benchmark btw)
2) Thirty is impressive, however I don't really see the need for 30 PvP instances. So yes, WAR would have alot more variety when it comes to instanced PvP. However it does not have an Arena system. Although the level of skill required in WoW to PvP is borderlining zero it's still nice to have a competative PvP system.
3) That's nice, but I personally couldn't care less what benefits some PvEing chaos players get when I'm PvPing with my shaman. It helps to unite the factions but that's it pretty much...
4) That's the key thing, Guild PvP with actual keeps. That's one of the things that make WAR look like a promising PvP title. But other than that I'm less than amazed.
- As for death penalties they add excitement to PvP, if you've got nothing to loose it makes it much less thrilling. If you had ever played EVE you'd know that. But ye, in instanced PvP it'd be pretty pointless with PvP penalties.
- Oh and thanks for the kind answer!
What ascension said. Also if you go look at the million post out there that has stated how different they are you would nt ask such a silly question. Anything else that Ascension hasn t said i can t say due to a little thing called a NDA. Please stop with the WOW and WAR comparisons especially the pvp. Once again i ll say there not even remotely close to the same, go do some research.
Ah, touché my good sir, if you so happened to be aiming for your ass.
It's true that I could do a search around these boards which mostly consist of two things, namely rubbish posts and fucktards like yourself. Quite frankly, people like your's truly prefer just to ask a provocative question for a fast answer than to stand waist-deep in shit looking for a remotely intelligent response that can be of any use.
As for the NDA I'm sure that no person would ever have the AUDACITY to break it. I mean, last time I checked Mythic was working together with Batman to punish those who let their lips slip (guess what happened that Ledger fellow, I ain't joking and so ain't Heith no more). Because MY GOD LAD, just think of the consequences if someone did? You know, the four horsemen and all that.. yatta yatta..
As for the comparison of WoW and WAR I think WoW makes an absolutely perfect benchmark to judge other MMO's by. But hey, if you want to be oldskool 'n kool with the kids I can always use something older like DAoC, EQ, Ultima or why don't we just compare it to MUDs (I'd recommend MUME, it's a great one and it's still running)? Heck, suddenly WAR don't look so bad anymore, it's actually got graphics!
- Or are you implying that WoW's PvP can't be compared with WAR's because it has more PvP instances and the option for guild siege warfare? The syngergy between PvP and PvE isn't exactly fresh, even WoW did something like it when they introduced Ahn'Qiraj. Oh and Guild PvP is a pretty fair tradeoff for Arena...
EDIT: Mweh, why do I even bother.. . As a zombie would've put it, waste of perfectly good brainz.
Ah...glad about the cheaters/hackers not being able to cheat/hack...
Sure will miss the Chompa but I would have had him as an alt anyway...
The cities is what I have the most questions with because what will happen to them in-game?
I sure got disappointed the first 30 minutes of this but I have to agree that atleast they are telling us the truth about what they are going to do to this game.
Some may say...will you still buy the game? Sure I will...you better believe I will since Fantasy PvP is my favorite of all things in any Fantasy MMO. WoW was my second MMO but I sure as hell won't go back and play that game.
Well that's just it. I am not looking just for a great game. I am looking for a virtual world to build a character in, that is believable and in mesh with the lore in the original IP. I wanted to play a High Elf, but not having a city to swear allegiance to and defend is a game killer for me. I like to RP, so IP integrity is important. You cannot possibly say that taking out cities maintains IP integrity. If so, then show me the books, Warhammer game manuals and etc. that agree with there only being two cities and the elves and dwarves fighting over the Empire's city constantly, while ignoring their own.
I am a Mythic fan, and have played DAoC for a long time. I don't doubt WAR will be fun when it is released; with or without 6 cities. Hell, if fun was my only factor of playing a game, I wouldn't ever leave DDO. No, RP is important to me and I cannot play a game that doesn't line up with the lore of the IP. It's like playing SWG after they butchered the lore in it.
I may be a minority when it comes to wanting things to abide by the lore, but my dollar counts just as much and so does my opinion. I've stated my opinion on this, and that is it. No one has yet to rebuttal the fact that they are destroying the integrity of the IP.
There is a huge lot of princesses around here.
Some of you people are looking for their perfect game, something they can wrap their lives around and worship til the grave. Like anything produced by and involving lots of different people, it gets hard to make something perfect for any one individual. They are trying their best to keep the players happy, trust in their judgement as far as that principle goes. You aren't as involved in the development of this project as any of the decision makers here - enough of your "Oh they shoulda's...".
Why do you follow games during development so much anyway? Have you nothing better to do? For once, I suggest you walk bindly into a new game world and actually feel the game as a new part of your conscience. I have been close to a game pre-release and it's like a long boring roller-coaster ride. Things get changed, there are let-downs, the wait grows, and launch is filled with all these expectations to the extent where I can't enjoy myself just playing the game.
And stop thinking your dollar is worth anything more than the next guy's. Nobody cares who you give it to except the companies targetting your custom, and on this level of discussion you sound more like a prick fussing over his $50 than the apparent billionaire-stock-genious mentality you're going for.
When the game comes out, go ahead and decide on purchasing it. If you do, play it. Then judge it. Then move on. Until that point, remember that you're not brightening anyone's day with your worthless squawking against a video game you haven't even played yet.
I'll see you in WAR in whatever the world is called and on whichever class I pick - because at this point I am relaxing in my ignorance - I know little of this game.
Fair enough.
This article got me interested in War for the first time.
Hi there, this is my first post and i made an account just for this forum
I think that even though this news has come as a great dissapointment, we should not quickly judge the entire game based on these removals. I have been following production for about a year and a half now and ive never been more excited about a game.
What I want to say is, that I think that this game is gonna still be as epic as ever because I remember the Cities in WOW and besides Stormwind the rest, pardon my french sucked balls. And if get 2 awesome cities that are unlike anything that we've seen before I think it is worth every cent.
As for the classes I am not dissapointed, even though my choice will be a White Lion when reading up on the Knight of the Blazing Sun, it just didnt seem to work and well didnt seem very interesting and I would rather wait for these 4 classes to come out polished and perfect, rather than half assed and inferior to the other classes
I will be at the lauch 100%
Watch out for Azmodeus, White Lion
Thanks
some people aren't as ignorant though
This mutilation of the game goes against everything Warhammer stands for. I guess ignorance is bliss... Have fun playing your gimp game at launch. gg
Another half finished game goes to the presses.
Maybe I'll check back in 12 months.
First place, wait and try the game out when it is published before you comdemn it. The game is not even in open beta yet. What is the big deal whether there is an elf city you can swear to at the start, try what they have first before you come crying here.
Mythic seems to really make an effort to change their ways, they deserve the benefit of the doubt.
I think what Mythic is doing now is the absolutely best thing they can do for the game. Focus on what you have, throw out what is not working, you can always add things later. That is a road to success in this business. A road Funcom failed to find.
Imo you're overreacting.
All the game systems will be in and functional at launch, although some of them won't be to the degree originally envisaged.
If this bothers you then just wait a few months till they get the missing stuff in. That's a prudent thing to do with new MMORPG releases anyway.
It's not like they actually sold you a game with "massive siege PVP" blurb on all the boxes and ads while there is no massive siege PvP nor will there ever be anything even close to what's implied by the blurb given the screwy core mechanics and completely incompatible tech requirements for massive PvP and top range gfx.
So chill... the sky isn't falling... yet...
I agree...this is the sole reason I have cancelled my pre-order. I had misgivings when EA took over Mythic, but I nver thought they'd have the gumption to put this garbage on any MMO. I got a HW ban from EB in BF2 for fragging one of their employees too many times because the sorry sap kept running the same route through my sniper field. That was the last time I played that game, and since then I've seen similar things happening to others in different games that use PB. They may claim they don't play the games they support, but it's shown on several occasion over the internet that not only do they, but they abuse the power of their software for personal gain in the games.
I can now see only guilds with EB employees in them being in the game - any competition will not surprisingly be banned for hacking if they prove too superior.
/sigh
All of the people saying the game is broken now or saying that Mythic lied are making me laugh.
1. You were never promised any of these things, since the game isn't out and MBJ and others have consistently said "Everything is subject to change"
2. You can't say the game is broken or gimped or anything like that because it's not out and you haven't played it to find out.
3. MBJ said in the interview, if these 4 classes don't work out, then they'll replace them with others.
4. the cities are going to be in as well.
5. Thank GOD, Gork, Mork, Sigmar, Tzeentch, and Khaine that they didn't go the way of Funcom and not tell the fanbase until launch day that these things weren't going to be in the game.
Anyone have a good computer setup that can handle 2k players in the 2 cities that didnt get cut. Got Lag!!
The only thing that I am discouraged or disappointed by is the amount of whining kids on here. To be perfectly honest, if you haven't played the game and don't know all the details of a classes such as blackguard, but you are saying you canceled your pre-order because the class is cut means only one thing. You need your diaper changed. Grow up.
1. If they delayed - some people would complain
2. If they left them in without them being fixed - some people would complain
3. If they cut them out until they are right - some people complain
The game isn't released yet. Very few of you even have a clue as to how difficult it is to make something that takes, say 100 core people with talent and several years. Things change. I'd prefer they remove a class (and it's counterpart) if they are overpowered or broken. I am sure they'll fix it and release it later; they aren't stupid. There are tons of other "classes" in the Warhammer IP but how many different systems of combat do you think they could come up with to assign to a new class that is interesting, unique and balanced?
Likewise, 6 cities to fight over might be a be much; who knows. Only they know and some of the beta testers. I've no doubt they'll come out with these as well. To be honest, form what I've heard, I'd pay to play right now. The cities are the highest end of content. I am sure we will be fine with all the other types of RvR until they give us four more cities to fight for.
The bottom line is; no matter what they do, some people are gonna bitch and say "That' it! This game totally sucks now so I am quitting." (even though they never joined yet, LOL). I wanna hear a bunch of people that are in closed beta say they won't join because of a few cut classes. Twenty is still plenty. Each side still has each type of role; even if you can't get a race/role you set your heart on just because it looked hardcore, etc.
LOL. If you had a clue about Warhammer IP, then you'd know there are literally dozens of cities with it's own lore in the IP. There is no way they'll get it all in. Deal with it.
“We’ve always believed that it is important to go to the community with both good news and bad,” he said. “Whether it’s the state of the games, or just talking in the forums, we’re professional enough to confront bad news head on and not try to hide it and not try to play games and wait until the last minute when people have already bought the game to tell them. We will not play those kinds of games.”
Yea right, thats what they all say. I for one think they will try to actually do this, but when launch time comes and things get hectic, this idea is out the door.
There are two types of people posting in this thread:
1) Those who read the article
2) Those who didn't
LOL. If you had a clue about Warhammer IP, then you'd know there are literally dozens of cities with it's own lore in the IP. There is no way they'll get it all in. Deal with it.
Deal with it? I won't even touch this game with a ten foot pole... Go preach to your choir.
I've seen enought. Both capitol cities are BS, 4 mentioned classes were cut 6 months ago. MJB trying to lie his best to avoid any damage done to Mythic's reputation.
Why is Mythic trying to make an Arcade game instead of an RPGMMO?
The two last pages almost made me cry. First one meant that we cannot have huge wooden castle filled with greenskin nor can the greenskins ''Go kill dose stunties''... At least not immediatly after the launch.
Second one wasn't so bad but.... NO CHOPPAS!
And they didn't even hint about bringing tha Choppa class later to the game... That is AWFUL
Personally I think we'll be seeing the choppa back in one form or another -- he's been in alot of the screenshots and I think of the 4 cut classes was one of the more popular.
I get the impression it was more a case of the berserker style of gameplay that he and the hammerer used wasn't working out for one reason or another and they maybe needed to rework that aspect (I'm completely guessing btw :))
The cap city announcement doesn't phase me. I guess from the perspective of having the content from those cities available (unavailable) it's bad, but I rather like the idea of having people in a more confined setting to begin the game.
If they make the other capital cities 'unlockable' and available for future expansion (free), then I'm okay with their releases lagging behind a bit.
...
The announcement of the classes being cut... I'm a bit stung by that, actually. I was very much looking forward to playing 'Blackguard'.
Now, I think the 2 coolest classes left in the game are: Witch Hunter and maybe Swordmaster or White Lion. All 3 of those are Order.
But if I want to play Destruction? For personal preference in visual appeal... I'd play Dark Elf or Chaos.
My options are limited very quickly there, though.
If I want to play as a Dark Elf AND play as a male character... I have to play as a Disciple of Khaine? Sorry, I'd just rather not have to play as a female character. So, Dark Elf is pretty much a 'zero' option for me without Blackguard being there.
Chosen or Zealot would be my choices out of Chaos, and potentially out of all of Destruction.
...
I pre-ordered the Collector's Edition. I'm still wanting to give this game a very solid shot, but cutting classes and cap cities... it takes a bit of wind from the sails prior to launch, imho.
I know, it's all about focus and quality on the remaining classes/cities. I get that. I was just pretty excited about having some additional choices.
Have they renamed Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning to Warhammer Online: Age of Conan 2 yet?
So many similarities
Punkbuster = No Sale
Can't get it to work consitantly and it causes nothing but headaches. Just look at YouTube and you'll see just how effective it isn't at stopping cheaters. In the end, just like copy protection, the only person it screws is the consumer. Cheaters will cheat, period.
Oh well, I guess I'll wait for the next big MMO to come along. Have fun (those that can stay connected).
That is the sorriest excuse I have ever seen. You have no clue what punkbuster is putting in the game to start with.
I suggest you grow up a bit and wait to see what they come up with first before whining.
DAoC really suffered from radar users, it was so bad we devoted one night a week to catching radar uses and reporting them. Hopefully this game will not suffer from the same problem.
Heh. trolling? the games not even out yet dude. I played AoC and quit. From what I can see this is nothing like it. Instead of releasing an unfinished game like AoC they are polishing warhammer to make sure they dont follow funcom's example.
If mythic had never said these class/race combos would be in the game none of this bitching would be happening. Thats what beta test is all about. Shit happens things change. 2 melee DPS, 2 tanks.. .so what?? ppl bitching like mad over this.. lol You can still play a tank u can still play a melee DPS..w/e QQ some more. Yea it sucks if you wanted to play one of those "looks".
20 playable classes? Not many other MMO's have this kind of variety.
You know that they will be good classes and balanced because after this move mythic would catch
no end of hell if they are not.
To visciousexe: if you tell me your gonna hit me with something 6 months from now I am gonna f** you up right now.. your whole post is worthless.
here here ozmodan well said...
The 2 city idea sounds pretty logical to me and I'm kinda glad they took out choppa class lol, seems everyone was gonna play it. Now you get to pick different stuff woot :D
OMG this sucks. I can't believe Mythic released WAR and then took out 4 cities and 4 classes.... I mean... all those people already made their characters..... What's that? The game isn't released yet?
Then..... why.... er.... why is everyone crying?
I don't get it... you people complain when companies don't release enough info on their unfinished game, then when they have to take something out of said unfinished game that you knew about, you cry then too....
Here's an idea... If you can't handle changes in developing games... then don't follow them...
You are definitely overlooking the fact that those 4 cities, and 4 classes were hyped to hell and back.
Having one capital city per side is just ridiculous....and it definitely does not fit into the lore.
That is the sorriest excuse I have ever seen. You have no clue what punkbuster is putting in the game to start with.
I suggest you grow up a bit and wait to see what they come up with first before whining.
DAoC really suffered from radar users, it was so bad we devoted one night a week to catching radar uses and reporting them. Hopefully this game will not suffer from the same problem.
Shut up you dripping fanboy. Every game I ever tried with Punkbuster has resulted in the same thing. Random disconnects, lag and problems. The cheaters get around Punkbuster. You can see all kinds of footage on YouTube. Punkbuster servers with people doing speed hacks and the like.
What is Punkbuster going to do to stop packet sniffers? Nothing. It can't detect it so programs like Odins Eye and the like will still be out there unless they do some pretty good packet encryption which causes lag and overhead. The bottom line is Punkbuster isn't the answer to cheaters anymore then Starforce is an answer to piracy.
Shut up you dripping fanboy. Every game I ever tried with Punkbuster has resulted in the same thing. Random disconnects, lag and problems. The cheaters get around Punkbuster. You can see all kinds of footage on YouTube. Punkbuster servers with people doing speed hacks and the like.
What is Punkbuster going to do to stop packet sniffers? Nothing. It can't detect it so programs like Odins Eye and the like will still be out there unless they do some pretty good packet encryption which causes lag and overhead. The bottom line is Punkbuster isn't the answer to cheaters anymore then Starforce is an answer to piracy.
Excuse me? You are the one running around making all kinds of absurd assumptions without one iota of knowledge of what you are talking about. You don't have one clue what kind of protection punkbuster will provide for Mythic.
You quite obviously don't know much about computers and programming, if there is a program in memory running it can be found and identified. Sure it is constant battle to keep up with the hackers, but it is doable. Blizzard has done a very good job in that regard.
Let's wait and see what Punkbuster provides before you go whining all over the forums with your silly assumptions. Mythic stated that if it caused any problems it would be removed.
Oh and trying to insult me just makes you look sillier and only gets a chuckle out of me.
IF PUNKBUSTER DOES NOT WORK MYTHIC WILL TAKE IT OUT OF THE GAME. PERIOD.
Mark said that, so if it's so terrible as some people here say, make sure you tell Mythic.
Shut up you dripping fanboy. Every game I ever tried with Punkbuster has resulted in the same thing. Random disconnects, lag and problems. The cheaters get around Punkbuster. You can see all kinds of footage on YouTube. Punkbuster servers with people doing speed hacks and the like.
What is Punkbuster going to do to stop packet sniffers? Nothing. It can't detect it so programs like Odins Eye and the like will still be out there unless they do some pretty good packet encryption which causes lag and overhead. The bottom line is Punkbuster isn't the answer to cheaters anymore then Starforce is an answer to piracy.
Excuse me? You are the one running around making all kinds of absurd assumptions without one iota of knowledge of what you are talking about. You don't have one clue what kind of protection punkbuster will provide for Mythic.
You quite obviously don't know much about computers and programming, if there is a program in memory running it can be found and identified. Sure it is constant battle to keep up with the hackers, but it is doable. Blizzard has done a very good job in that regard.
Let's wait and see what Punkbuster provides before you go whining all over the forums with your silly assumptions. Mythic stated that if it caused any problems it would be removed.
Oh and trying to insult me just makes you look sillier and only gets a chuckle out of me.
Yeah, it's crazy to think they would install Punkbuster when they said they will install Punkbuster. I'm CRAZY!!
You obviously don't understand how networking works because a packet sniffer doesn't have to run on the computer running the game. How is any program going to find a packet sniffer running on another machine? Please tell me because you obviously are so much more informed about it then I.
And I've been chuckling at you from the start. I love blind faith fanboys. They are so much fun.
The problem is Punkbuster doesn't think they have a problem. Plus it's a different beast dealing with an MMO then a FPS. All I know is I have never been able to get Punkbuster to work consistanly on any system. I've been through their reinstall and redownload dance so many times it stopped me from playing any Battlefield online. Which is a shame. "Does Not Work" is a little vague. If it doesn't work for everyone or some magic percentage? What happens for those it doesn't work for? Those are the questions that I'd like to see answered.
"Well its Mark, so if he thinks something is going to be released half-assed it most likely wont make it out. "
This the same Mark that released DAOC in the sad state it was in? I'll give it one thing, it didn't crash much...
But then, even SW:G released with more "content" than DAOC. Empty dungeons.... and if you happened to find a dungeon WITH monsters in it, the monsters didn't have loot! Exciting!
So, yeah, Mark has a great track record in regards to not releasing half finished stuff... he only releases completely unfinished stuff ;).
Betatesters from betaleaks says they're all okay with 1 city... They said that 3 cities just split the players.
You don't even know what you're talking about (same for me).. so just wait and see
Not so bad they just axed half of the game content just that...
LOL u gotta love companies now adays... hey bad news we planned 6 cities but we will have only 2, and we planned 10 clases but we will have 6... Basicly our plans are bs...
Oh and i love the excuse about the delay HEH... and he says later i dont like to lie to players RIGHT
Why dont u tell us already u guys want to cash your juicy check already so your going to release half the game..
Hi all, I have to say frist off I was really looking forward to this title because I play the TTG, I am profoundly displeased that mythic has chosen to remove the class I wanted to play. I am let down by the Mythic team and for the last time, can't say I trust them to do things right if after all the extra time they have spent, I mean it's been delaid a year already. So unfortunately the game is a wash for me all you guys that want to still invest in this title good luck and have fun. I imagine there will be fun to be had.
Punkbuster?
Are you kidding?
LOL. Worst idea ever.
I'm all for finding ways to kill cheaters,etc.. but jebus, this isn't the best idea. More often than not, that POS causes more issues than it corrects. PB enabled servers are always crashing or kicking people for no apparent reason in FPS games that use it. I can't see how this was supposed to be a feature for WAR.
Had to have been EA that came up with that retard idea.
I always thought Mythic had some brains in the outfit.
Thought the extra cities were going to be added later? The 4 classes may be as well, once things get off the ground.
I can see the reasoning behind it. They have to priortize resources, and I'd rather see them release the best stuff they can at launch, and work on adding in the rest afterwards. It may suck if that was your favorite class or city, but it doesn't mean you won't see them at all.
Then again when they do release the addional classes, you will have to start behind everyone else who played the game at launch weres the fun in that.
I dont remember them saying they will re-release those 4 class that are cut. But you still have a few monhs now to decide whats your new class, just like me.
sounds like they wouldnt release the game on stated timeline, thats why they are cutting some of the fat. Lord Knows fat makes a steak taste better. After the shit Brad fed us with EQ 3 (vanguard) and then the epic failure that is AoC. All I see here is an excuse to not finish what they started and hurry and release the game on time. I hope thats not the case because i really could use something new and fun to play.
No Black Guard = no WaR for me. And punkuster is only nail in the coffin.
of course they cater to the masses you dont want this game to be another conan do you? and another flaw in your arguement is saying it like a WoW clone.. i mean comeon.. a WoW clone.. oh you mean a successful game that performs well.. well damn.. these guys made DAOC have faith.
CHEATER! ;)
why cheater? lineage 2 hawe anti cheat program attached called gameguard, he guards nothing as lineage 2 hawe more bots radars and more cheating programs i ever seen in mmo. its a excuse for devs to fight with cheating personally
I'm under NDA so there isn't much I can say other than these couple of things:
1.) This game is not WoW and WoW totally copied Warhammer IP with their game. The art is no WoW original Warhammer had this artistic style LONG before WoW or Warcraft was invented.
2.) War is not WoW in any shape form or fashion.
3.) Mythic said from day one if something isn't awesome it's not going in the game, therefore they aren't going back on anything they said previously they are doing the right thing by telling us and holding true to their beliefs.
4.) I will definitely play this game at launch and am even more excited now than I was when I first heard about it.
To everyone whining about PB. This is simply an added layer of protection. It's definitely going to be more secure by adding layers or protection than if it didn't have PB.
This is a simple tennet of network security, the more layers of good security you have the better off you are.
Mythic never once said that they will ONLY have PB for cheat and hack detection. They will still develop all their own stuf in house, they will simply add PB to the mix. This should help prevent things that change the game executable by running on the local computer and not getting into a spygate controversy for scanning Memory and stuff. This is a genius move to adopt and industry standard anti-cheat program and circumvent the crying in forums all over the world about how they shoudln't be allowed to scan resident memory etc. because it's an invasion of privacy. In this case PB takes care of that in an industry standard way that people have to come to know and expect while keeping a transparent EULA and game client. This will hopefully mainly stop botters not packet sniffers.
Also in most modern games things like Odin's Eye aren't necessary since you don't have the need for that type of program.
Yeah you completely missed the point there about PB people dont like it because of the DC it causes, to be honest ive never played an mmo with it so i cant say, but from all the gamers i know it hasn t got positive reviews.
Don't worry.. if it's shit, they'll drop it :)
Mythic said that they were not dead set on PB yet. They were going to try it out in beta and see how it went. If it was crap they were going to drop it. I have never been on a game that uses it so I don't know much about it.
When I first heard that they were dropping some classes, and dropping 4 cities I was pissed, I have been waiting for this game for two years now and to get this news months before the game is going to be released kind of irked me, but after reading the numerous interviews Mythic has done since the announcement I can understand why they did it.
I was never sold on the Knights of the blazing sun anyway, so I am happy that they scraped them. I thought there were better Knight classes they could have used from the tabletop game, which they might be able to use now that the knights of the blazing sun are gone.
I can respect a company that can say, hey these things just are not up to par, so we are not going to let them out until they are where we want them. I wish more companies were like that. I am still looking forward to receiving my collectors edition and getting into Warhammer online.
lol agreed, i mean if they are going to cut things out to speed up lauch, due to finances and such its just sad, and for those fanboys that are going to say it will still be good, those cities are huge, those cut classes werent that great, well they are hurting the lore, i mean if they do add the other cities, what? will their space chip city just land there? i mean this is just sloppy and done due too greed, hell though im no flammer, and i will give the game a try when it is finished I just think its sad for it to happen.
Anyway... we'll see you in game 2 weeks after launch ...
The MMO "Board Game" Concept is born ! Eureka !
the basic Box with Human against Orc, oops sorry Chaos
the other army after ^^ Games Workshop ghost goes out of this body !!!
ho ho but Warhammer : Mark of Choas exist allready !? no ?
ho of course there is 3 dungeon and some quest inside ! hopefully
so it a MMO RPG! tha was short !!!
i hope that it will have enought things at last for to entertain me more than 1 month like AoC not did !
"cut and polish " 3 years of dev ! hummm plz go to hire some Chinese or Pakistan worker for to do 50 dungeon plz Mythic seems to be slower to dev things than Blizzard ( somebody wants to see a plan of an EQ dungeon?)
omg plz dont kill the Warhammer licence ! the StarWars, LoTR, Dungeons & Dragons one are allready dead !! what after ? Cthulhu Mythos !!?
I haven't read much of this tread, and i don't need too.
The cut of the citys and carriers/classes is simply a proff of poorly management, and the fact that so many other promising mmorpgs are getting in on the marked.
WAR has been in the making for so long, that its being predated before release, and Mystic is getting desperate.
Therefore they are cutting some major parts of the game, so they can release the game in time.
I suspect another paid beta release as we got with AOC. :(
i'll stick with Blizzard, they don't release anything thats not finished, and they don't promise more than they can deliver.!
you do not understand the concept
of plan and promise do you?
they are NOT the same.
It is MYTHIC not Mystic...
They are doing mechanic wise what they think is best.
Not having the time is only 1/2 of the story.
you may be better informed than me.!
But as i see it, you can't play a melee dps class on the order side if you don't like elfs.
There is now only 2 citys to attack, leaving less to none surprise atttacks.
it all makes me wonder what else they have left for future improvements.?
melee dps would be Witch hunter for empire.
dwarves are the only one without