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Warhammer Online - Behind the Career System: Part One
Warhammer Online will employ one of the most interesting class systems in any MMORPG to date when they debut in the Fall. In part one of this two-part series, Jon Wood speaks to Mythic's Adam Gershowitz about the three ideas that formed the backbone of the careers design.
Recently, I had the opportunity to sit down with Adam Gershowitz, the Combat and Careers strike team lead over at EA Mythic’s Warhammer Online. During the interview, we talked about the classes in Warhammer (known as Careers) and what went into the overall design process in bringing them to life.
The Warhammer Online careers system has gone through an evolution since the game was announced, moving from an extremely complex system when the game was first announced, to the complex and interesting but ultimately more understandable system that we have today and will see at launch.
There are 24 careers in total: four for each of the six races in the game. This in and of itself is a unique decision. More traditional MMOs like World of Warcraft don’t tie their classes to their races. A Paladin, for example, is a Paladin regardless of what race he / she may belong to. Not that there’s anything wrong with that system, but Warhammer takes careers in the opposite direction. If you’re a Bright Wizard, you’re Empire. If you’re an Ironbreaker, you’re a Dwarf.
Order
- Dwarf: Hammerer, Ironbreaker, Rune Priest, Engineer
- Empire: Bright Wizard, Warrior Priest, Witch Hunter, Knight of the Blazing Sun
- High Elves: Swordmaster, Archmage, Shadow Warrior, White Lion
Destruction
- Greenskins: Black Orc, Choppa, Shaman, Squig Herder
- Chaos: Chosen, Magus, Zealot, Marauder
- Dark Elves: Witch Elf, Disciple of Khaine, Sorceress, Black Guard
That isn’t to say that each of the 24 classes is completely unique. Most, if not all, of the careers have a parallel on the opposing side (Order and Destruction). Still, each has its own personality and flavor.
“[Other MMOs] can do the whole Knight, Paladin, Rogue, Mage, format,” Gershowitz said. “When you get down to it, in Warhammer, those things do exist but they exist in a different fashion.”
The Careers in Warhammer, I was told, were designed with three major ideas in mind:
First, the game’s careers had to not only be reflective of the plethora of Warhammer universe lore, but they had to personify it.
“We have a very rich and vast IP,” he said, “we always want Careers that are Iconic and represent that Lore. That means no matter how cool the concept, if it’s not WARHAMMER, it’s not in the game.”
“This,” he continued, “is the primary reason why each Career is a unique experience, while other MMO’s can homogenize classes across multiple races, WAR follows the time honored Warhammer tradition so each Race has its own unique identity and does things its own way. For example you’ll never see a Dwarf Wizard b/c dwarfs don’t believe in sissy nancy pants magic. Nor would you ever see a Human wizard manipulating more then one type of magic, because their minds would melt and they would become gibbering pawns of the chaos gods if they tried to.”
Gibbering minds aside, the importance of roles and the ability for every player to understand what their career’s role is is the second of the three major ideas that governed the career design:
“Each Career fills a set role in a well defined RPG theme. These archetypes define the overall design of a career and how it operates. Tanks – Heavy Armor, Defensive Melee. Melee DPS – Lightly Armored High Damage Melee. Ranged DPS – Lightly armored ranged attackers, Healers – Group support specialists. As you can imagine there is a lot of room for designers to be creative within these broad archetypes but we use them to make sure that two careers of the same archetype can fulfill the same role even if they go about getting the job done differently.”
The third major idea was that there be something for everyone in the mix. They wanted to make sure that players who wanted to play the more traditional MMO characters would have the opportunity to do so, but they also wanted to make sure that there were “a number of more unique designs that are new twists on traditional roles in MMOs” so that players who wanted to could experience something new and unique.
Now that we’ve scratched the surface of the thought process behind the careers design in EA Mythic’s Warhammer Online, we can move on to talk about what that means for the game and go into more detail about the choices that were made and their impact what we will be playing when Warhammer hits shelves this fall.
For now though, if you’re interested to see just how unique Warhammer Online’s classes really are, you can check out one of our previously published Warhammer Online Class profiles:
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Only problem I see with having lots of classes is balance but if they get that right which they wont at first then it'll be a hit because all the classes are interesting on the destruction side atleast.
When they say the first take on the careers was too complex, was it anything close to the fantasy roleplay system? Which typically started as something like a simple woodcutter or academic, then they would branch out into more sophistacted roles such as brigand, captain, judicial champion or pit fighter and of course if you are a dwarf the slayer careers.
There was also non-combat careers like demagogue, charlatan all revolving around manipulating innoncent folks (being non-combat it is easy to see why these wouldnt fit the current career formats).
The point is they all relied on prerequisite skills to be learned before one could progress from a base career to the more 'high brow' stuff. Typically it would take half a decade just to get to wizard rank 1 in the pnp game (unless the dm was kind with exp). I can see why the system will never make it into an mmo type format, although maybe a platform like the 4th edition d&d it would work.
Anyway looking forward to the next part of the interview :)
Yeah, I totally loved that system as well...
However since the MMORPG is squarely based on TT portion of the IP rather than RPG one (I believe it's even been given over to a separate company while GW concentrates on the TT), the existing career system is OK.
A WHFRPG career system would be awesome but then it wouldn't be all about WAR since a lot of those classes aren't purely combat ones. It would be better suited for a more classical MMO rather than a RvR one. Oh well...
The early on problems with the classes wasn't so much the classes themselvs as the Mastery System. It wasn't very well exsplained or layed out. Not really their fault they hadn't ever tried anything like it and the first version of it, as no surprise, floped. It wasn't the system or the ideas just the application. So they went back and clearly exsplained the system, how it worked and how it effected you. They also redesigned what you got and how much that might effect the game for you. This now has a huge effect on you as a player. Because it lets you play the game, as they like to say "Your Way" for instance you can deside to be a DOT Sorc, or an AoE Sorc, or a DD Bolt casting Sorc. You will still have spells from all the lines, but the one you speced will has special ablities and boosted spells dmg ect. So naturaly you'll prob use the line you speced more then the rest. It's a really robust system as far as I understand. it just took them a bit to get there.
As for the balance thing I agree it will be hard to do, but not so hard as you'd think. Afterall a Mele dps needs to have some kinda hard cap on their dps per level per encounter. As long as your Orc and my Dwarf both have the same DPS, who cares who were doing it. I belive that was the key point to the system. Not so much that everyone whos Mele DPS has to be a rogue,, but that when 2 of them hit each other. The player with more skill will win, not the one class because it's a BETTER mele DPS.
just my 2 cents. As a disclaimer I'm NOT in the beta, but I like other hard cores have been keeping up with ever bit of avail info. All thease statements are drawn from publicly open information. Though it is only the info Mythic has released.. so it could all be smoke and mirrors for all I know.. I'm just saying it's what I understand it to be so no one stahb me to death for being a haritic I didn't mislead on purpose if I have!
Yeah, I totally loved that system as well...
However since the MMORPG is squarely based on TT portion of the IP rather than RPG one (I believe it's even been given over to a separate company while GW concentrates on the TT), the existing career system is OK.
A WHFRPG career system would be awesome but then it wouldn't be all about WAR since a lot of those classes aren't purely combat ones. It would be better suited for a more classical MMO rather than a RvR one. Oh well...
EQ2 sis the archetype system and it turned out badly because you couldn't play the class you wanted to straight away even though you knew what class you were going to be eventually, then you'd get there and the class would suck and go "i cant be bothered with this again" and chuck the game away.
Nice read Stradden,
Can't wait for part 2. I really like the archetype system,as I will be the Black Guard,and as such I know my role is to keep choke points blocked and make it very hard for ANYONE to get to the Dark Elf casters,healers,or Witch Elves. Add to this the "Tactics" and "Morale" abilities, and Masteries. This will be one hell of a fun system to play,at least to me any way.
Balance is only a problem if the game system calls for 100% balance. Thats why games like WOW are 100% relying on the devs buffing and nerfing. That calls for what ? Unhappy ppl and unbalanced game if not done right.
Good MMO systems are self supporting. They dont create extra problems with overpopulated classes while others are not played - just because they are so uber or so poor. How you make such systems ? You increse the benefits of working with outhers - and the more that work together - the bigger rewards. And you DON'T create any side systems that destroy the overall game balance.
Lets look at this from a well known game. WOW... We have the normal 5 man PVE system and the 25 man PVE content. It is based on many ppl working together - thus making balance in terms of uber versus gimped less important when doing diffrent encounters. But then... we have the current Arena system. System that is NOT supporting the orginal base of the game. Some specs in Arena are NOT supported at all (tanks) and some classes and specs are very poor compared to others. That calls for what ? More ppl playing the none tank specs = Lack of this spec for the 5 man dungeons. And more ppl are playing the op specs (healing druids compared to other druid specs) and ppl even leave their orginal classes cause they are so bad in Certain content of the game. And then WOTLK comes out... And the game can no longer support the basics of 5 man system. Some specs are simply missing while others are overpopulated - preventing ppl from actually enjoying alot of the content.
The basic system of War does not call for 100% balance. Its all relying on - not only groups but even bigger groups working together - and not really relying on perfect spec setup. Thats why we wont see all the ... OMG nerf this class or OMG buff us !! Thats another game and sign of bad design.
I don't get it to be honest. Don't other games have a relatively similar job system? for example, in WoW only certain classes can be certain professions, not all races can be everything. I noticed this in EQ2 and I believe even DAoC, heck I believe LOTRO and DDO has this too. The only difference is that the other MMO's decided to expand more professions to other races, but again, this isn't to say that it isn't all THAT different from what WAR is trying to do... or am I missing something here?
I find it odd that they describe this as an "evolution" when it's so similar to the model used in DAoC, just taken a teeny bit further. Of course, this system does make a lot more sense with the way tabletop Warhammer units are done.
No, what they are talking about is that each race has their own specific classes. They all have the same base properties (ie tank, healer, melee dps) they are just named differently. There are no class transitions to other races, again each race has their own class.
That's exactly my point. Not only that, but a number of MMO's have something relatively similar (using the term very loosely here) where not every single race can be every single profession, WoW and EQ2 are prime examples of this. The only difference being that the other MMO's expanded the number of professions a race can be, instead of limiting it and then give them different names.
So is it really "new"? doesn't seem like it. To me, a unique career system was that in FFXI (2 jobs at a time) because it was different from the steretypical system (one job per char) or SWG's (multiple professions/skills at the same time) or Lineage 2's system (similar to SWG, although I'm sure SWG tooktheir inspiration off of Lineage 2)
ahh ok I get it... but then... if that's the case, basically they still didn't do anything really different other than allot/assign certain jobs (of which most MMO's already have out there anyway) for only certain races and just give them different names? But it still begs to ask the question... is it really "new"? DAoC is actually a great example of how it's almost a direct parallel of WAR's job system. The "vampire" profession of DAoC for example comes to mind for example.
In EQ2 other than one or two classes you can play any class you want with any race or faction you want.
In WoW you can be any class you want with any race or faction you want.
In Warhammer if you read their class list you can not. While there is a 'similiar' archtypes the classes ARE different & do Play different. There are no Fire Casting Mages on Destruction but there is the Sorcerer a wielder of dark magics. There is no melee dps pet class on the destruction side like the white lion on the order side but they do have a ranged dps pet class called the squig herder.
The basic arch types are similiar but the class, the abilities, the masteries, and play styles are not.
You should check out the Paris Videos to better understand hwo their Career / Master / Tactics systems are completely different from DAoC and WoW and even EQ2.
Got it, thanks. It sounds interesting, and should I decide to give this game a try, I might want to give the White Lion class a shot.
Actually no, in WoW you cannot be any class you want in every race.
Very true, even within the same races. Couldn't do a Draenei Druid :( Shaman was the only profession that semi-interested me from the professions they could play.
You are right, it has been done to a point in all MMOs. They have just taken it one step further. There are no duplicate classes. A Dark Elf cannot be a Black Orc or an Engineer. These classes can only be taken by a Black Orc and a Dwarf.
If you look at the Armies of War page on the Warhammer site you can see how the classes are broke down. Now don't get me wrong even though I say the classes are the same arch-types (tank, healer, melee dps) they aren't. There are mechanics in place (also talked about on the Armies of War page) that differentiate the Chaos Chosen (tank) from the Dwarf Ironbreaker (also tank) and make them entirely different to play.
isn't that what evolution is? small changes over time that eventually end up as large changes. if each MMO changes a bit then years to come they will be completely diffrent. Revolutionary would be a drastic change all at once, like EVE.
no no no you don't understand ...it that only Choas can be chaos classes each race has its own classes for example you wont see a Empire human being a black guard .....in WoW blood elfs can be all other classes but shamen but in WAR Dark elfs can only be Dark Elf classes
understand there is no common class that every race can be..
hmmm good point.
LOL! You'll have to try and keep up, I already made a couple of posts after saying that I understood WAR's concept now.
That is only the start....it gets deeper still with the "masteries" within in each career. Each "career" (class) has 3 masteries. Of these, a player can choose how much or how little to delve into each. Like they may just want to specialize straight in one mastery path. Or they might want up to a point in one but then a little of another line too. It is still being worked out, but makes for some GREAT customization!
Indeed, no 2 players of the same class will have identical abilities, it's almost as if they have abolished the "cookie cutter" builds of certain other mmo's. (Good job as well).
Yeah, I totally loved that system as well...
However since the MMORPG is squarely based on TT portion of the IP rather than RPG one (I believe it's even been given over to a separate company while GW concentrates on the TT), the existing career system is OK.
A WHFRPG career system would be awesome but then it wouldn't be all about WAR since a lot of those classes aren't purely combat ones. It would be better suited for a more classical MMO rather than a RvR one. Oh well...
Its a shame that no-one has decided to make a proper online ROLEPLAYING game (shock! horror! a game that isnt a great big war of mobile calculators!) based on warhammer actually although I can totally understand why it has gone in the direction of WAR. It has been very closely modeled off of WoW because they know that it will succeed and make money that way. Its also what the masses know and are familiar with so unfortunately the games companies have to appeal to the "orcish hordes" (Where's my PvP, phat loot farming, raiding, DoTs, epic gear blah blah blah) to access their wallets. The hairless apes that comprise the human race just cant adapt to new things very well unfortunately.
Dont get me wrong though cos I'm certainly looking forward to playing WAR when it comes out. I'm sure I will have a lot of fun with it. Its just a shame that they arent making a more intelligent game where I can really create an interesting character that is more unique. Instead we are restricting to a paltry 4 classes within each race. There will no doubt be more classes that get added to each race with further expansions but even still......I dunno.....it still seems rather simplified and limited to me. OK so in the article they talk about how each race has its own unique class. Is that such a big deal? Didnt we already know all of this from the beginning. Why has an article been published about it now as though its something new that they've just added to the game?
I'm wondering......isnt it going to be rather odd seeing large numbers of Bright Wizards running around? OK I know they can specialise in different branches of....umm.....burning things but they're still all Bright Wizards. I'm not all that clued up on Warhammer law but I'm sure there were loads of other schools of magic such as Jade Wizards, Celestial Wizards, Gold Wizards, Grey Wizards, Light Wizards and some others I think. Why can we only be one class of mage? The same goes for the priests and knights. Only one order of priests (Sigmar) and one order of knights (Blazing Sun). What about the rest? The thing is they dont even need to be totally different classes. Just let us pick our Wizard, Priest or Knight and then let us pick a secondary "Order" that we belong to. The "Order" that we choose to belong to could dictate what paths we could specialise in.
But yeah of course I totally understand the whole class-balancing thing and how much harder it gets the more choice the player has. Its just a shame it has to be dumbed down so much thats all. I also guess its because I really like the Warhammer setting and I'm a greedy git who wants it all.....even though I know I cant have it. Oh well WoW 2 it is then. Now where's me axe?!
Here we go again. Mythic only stupid devs don't learn from their mistakes. You did the exact same thing with DAoC and guess what, 7-8 years later the classes are still not balanced to any degree.
Blizzard was smart, only introducing a few classes, NOT 24.
Who knows, Mythic might shock the heck out of us and deliever half way decent class balance, but I have my doubts, as they could not do it in DAoC.
They should immediately drop at least 8 of the classes, even 16 is a stretch at release.
Remember Wow was primarily pve so the pvp was not a significant factor, WAR is pvp first and no balance means fotm classes that everyone herds to.
I just hope we see a miracle from Mythic, otherwise everyone will be disappointed again in another MMO company.
Remember, Mythic's response to fotm classes is to nuke them into oblivion. Once Mythic decides to nerf they almost always make the class unplayable.
you shouldn't try to justify things with warhammer lore when you don't know the lore. there arn't many diffrent orders of knights for the empire. hell, the brits only had 4 orders of knights, and they are the... knights faction. (I take that back, they arn't diffrent orders of knights, just levels on their quest to the grail or ownership of land)
We can't base it too much on Warhammer because that was a game of armies! mass forces against each other. players don't want to be archer #19 or skink #46. and very few armies in warhammer contain more than a handfull of wizards, large armies. small ones are very limited in in their choice of lords and heroes and such and they'd be lucky to have even 1.
In a real Warhammer army for the empire? i'd only expect to see knights of the blazing sun. they were great strong troops, but never the focus. I don't see how you could get the focus of the empire army in an MMO unless you wanted to let people play as... cannons.
The lore is deep, the units diverse. But its not based on people playing a single unit, so a lot of things have to change.
and no, empire doesn't have access to all those schools of magic. each type of wizard tends to have a very limited choice of magic. with slaan toad lords having the largest pool to pull from if I can remember correctly. but my Woodelf army can't touch high magic, so why should these silly empire wizards be able to?
Sounds like someone over at Mythic played AC2. It's funny to me that one of the big reasons people didn't like AC2 later in life was because of the number of classes. For those that don't know, each of the 3 races (eventually 4 and a drudge) had unique classes. Each race had 2 melee classes, 2 ranged, 2 caster. There were overlaps between classes but each and every class was unique. It was the best system out there and would be today if it hadn't been screwed over by MS. Oh well... another topic.
I'm glad another company thought that was a good idea, gives me some hope for WAR.
I'm also not very sure to get it. Besides what you already wrote, what about i.e. AoC? Only Stygian race for example can be necromancer or demonologist. However many are shared by other races. In LOTRO also only humans can be all possible classes, but it is true, that many are shared among races.
Well I did point out that I dont know the warhammer lore all that well didnt I. That doesnt mean I cant voice some thoughts I am having about the topic though does it.
But thanks for the information though as it cleared a few things up for me. For example I didnt know that the empire only had access to fire magic......I was sure that they had more schools of magic than that but I must be wrong. Same goes for the knightly orders and priests too. My gripes have been pushed aside :-)
They've really streamlined what they did with DAoC in WAR. While they have 24 classes, they have 4 archetypes, and there are pairs of classes that mimic eachother, yet are still unique.
i.e. Bright Wizard and Sorceress are both RDPS classes that have a guage that builds up with the more magic you cast that can damage your character if you use too many powerful spells.
Or the fact that there are 6 healing classes, but two are mimiced for melee, and two are mimiced for range, and the other two... well they're mimiced but in what seems like a different way. Warrior Priest and Disciple for melee, the shaman and archmage for ranged, and the zealot and runepriest for what seems like buffs/debuffs.
Having mimics, and also having very straight forward archetypes will go a loooooong way in helping class balance be achieved easier. With DAoC you have a ton of unique classes that don't mirror and aren't in any specific archetype. (At least not to my knowledge)
It makes testing easier and balance easier also because when you play the class you can ask yourself "Does it fit the correct role?"
EDIT: To neonwire. The Empire has access to all 8 winds of magic, but they can only be proficient in one per person.
There are 8 colleges of magic in the Empire. some examples being Bright Wizards, Amethyst Wizards, Jade Wizards, etc. etc. you can find it all on the games workshop website under the empire section.
The point he was trying to make is Bright Wizards ONLY use Fire magic, while other colleges ONLY use their college of magic. They're not able to do what the elves do which is that one person can theoretically use all 8 winds of magic.
There's already been concept art of wizards from the other colleges (obviously as NPCs), they just chose to use Bright Wizards because of their unique look and feel. I mean just look at them. They bleed of badassery.
Also there are other priests and other knightly orders. I can't think of all their names as well, but the Knights of the Blazing sun who worship the goddess myrmidia (i think that's how you spell it) are very tactical and exact in everything they do throughout their life, so they are the closest to what people expect from a tank/knight character.
There are also other priesthoods. I can't think of those either off the top of my head. (not a lore buff) but I know they exist.
Again just browse games workshops site and you can find miniatures of most of the classes that are in the game, or find some info online about the fantasy role playing game they have, because some of the lore is pulled from that as well. Then while you're at it you can read some novels, because they're pulling lore from there too. :p Basically they're drawing from the entire IP and not just one aspect of it.
Question: Why have set classes at all? This, I think, is part of what discourages me from playing most mainstream games. From the time I create my character I'm stuck in my ways, not being able to distribute attributes AT ALL and not really choosing the majority of my abilities.
WoW has a trait system that allows a bit of character customization, but you realize that it's more of the illusion of customization because depending on what you want to do, there really is only one good way to go about it. So then it comes down to your "skill" playing the game, and games like WoW require next to no skill. As long as you can operate 3 buttons and a mouse, you'll be able to compete with the big boys... unless... your gear sucks. So what does PvP in a set class system come down to? The ability to spend hours and hours grinding for the best gear, with which it becomes little competition as you smash those with inferior armor.
Many mainstream MMORPGs employ exactly the same system as WoW, because it's so popular and lucrative (as long as you can come up with more and more perpetual diversions). However, this system is dull and lifeless, and anyone can pickup and play WoW well within hours, which is the entire time it takes to develop the strategies you will use in every PvP match you participate in. You may as well be part of the programming.
What I would like to see is more MMORPGs that employ systems similar to pre-CU SWG and AO, which were so incredibly popular because your character could fill any roll in the game, and change at any time. I admit, I am one of those who reroll nearly every class in the game simply for the diversity (because I can't stand the monotony). I never had to do that in SWG (I had 3 characters at most) because their system allowed me the freedom to choose what I wanted to do and change my character accordingly, without a hampering level system.
But perhaps this is only me, and the droves of sheep in the US would rather fall into a monotonous system than have the ability to choose.
Indeed, no 2 players of the same class will have identical abilities, it's almost as if they have abolished the "cookie cutter" builds of certain other mmo's. (Good job as well).
I need to do more reading on this too, because I'm too jaded as an MMO vet to take any company's word for anything. ;)
For example, WoW offers a wide range of customization for each class too -- but they're still very much cookie-cutter because most of the combinations will not make you nearly as effective as a select few. So it was like trying to avoid being cookie cutter, by adding more cookies.
I'm anxious to see how Mythic works all of this out, and whether they can create a game that lets more than a few combinations stand out.
I need to do more reading on this too, because I'm too jaded as an MMO vet to take any company's word for anything. ;)
For example, WoW offers a wide range of customization for each class too -- but they're still very much cookie-cutter because most of the combinations will not make you nearly as effective as a select few. So it was like trying to avoid being cookie cutter, by adding more cookies.
I'm anxious to see how Mythic works all of this out, and whether they can create a game that lets more than a few combinations stand out.
Yeah but WoW's problem was that once you chose a spec, you performed very poorly in anything BUT that spec. A prot pally can't heal as well as a holy pally, probably not even as well as a regular pally. All they can do is AoE tank. But with WAR, class masteries won't be that sharply defined. A warrior priest that puts his points into damage will still be able to heal semi-effectively...not as good as a warrior priest who chose a healing path of course, but nothing like the WoW example.
Hmmm......so I did have it right first time then. Thanks for the info. Basicly the devs have decided all players in the empire who want to be a mage WILL be a fire mage, so like I said before.....ummm......lots of fire wizards running about = Severe lack of choice. Yes they are badass but I would prefer "interesting" to "badass". Afterall who cares if you look badass when every other mage on your side is the same as you. Also anything looks "badass" depending on your perspective. It reminds me of the old days when i used to play geeky pen & paper roleplaying games and at times would deliberately play a character that wasnt outwardly amazing cos I got so tired of listening to everyone else trying to be "the coolest". Afterall people trying to be the badass only impress themselves - the people around them dont give a rats ass as they are to busy being the badass themselves (sigh).
Oh I fancy being a nature mage.....a kind of druid type.....nope cant be one! How about an illusionist....nope! anything other than fire? nope. Oh well.
Oh and I have read some warhammer novels so i do know a bit about the lore. I just wasnt keyed up on who could use which schools of magic.
Yeah, I totally loved that system as well...
However since the MMORPG is squarely based on TT portion of the IP rather than RPG one (I believe it's even been given over to a separate company while GW concentrates on the TT), the existing career system is OK.
A WHFRPG career system would be awesome but then it wouldn't be all about WAR since a lot of those classes aren't purely combat ones. It would be better suited for a more classical MMO rather than a RvR one. Oh well...
Actually they have stated that WAR is based on all of the Warhammer IP, that includes the TT, RPG, Books, etc. While it is easy to see the comparison with the TT since it is the most well known, Mythic is drawing upon all the lore that Warhammer has to offer.
Also for class balance, they only need to balance the archetypes verses one another, so it should help with the balancing act. Another thing that will help with class balance is the fact that the game is based heavily around RvR, or PvP. So Mythic can just balance the classes against each other and then change the mobs and NPCs in relation to the players. In PvE intensive games, like WoW for example, it is harder to balance classes against each other because skills are balanced against NPCs and Mobs first and foremost. So you end up with useless skills in PvP, like taunt. Yet in WAR they will have a taunt and it will work in PvP because the skill was created for use in PvP, and they can just tailor mobs and NPCs to react a certain way to that skill.
Yes the class system is similar to DAoC, but that should be a given since WAR is being made by the people who made DAoC. And I dont think this system is similar to WoW or EQ or LOTRO, because while you only have a limited selection of classes per race, all the races still pull from the same pool of classes. Whereas in WAR every class is different, and not only in name, the only similarities between classes will be in their archetype.
The problem with character customization in WAR is they are limited by a methodology that was created for board type games, hence you have built in limitations. Looks like Mythic is addressing this as best they can.
This is NOT the sandbox game everyone is looking for, but it does seem to be something far deeper than AoC. Whether it is Wow quality remains to be seen.
It really cracks me up when people bash Wow yet, not one game to date has even come close to being considered a competitor.
"There are 24 careers in total: four for each of the six races in the game. This in and of itself is a unique decision. More traditional MMOs like World of Warcraft don’t tie their classes to their races."
I quoted this from the article. As a long time DAoC player, I must correct you on this, because I feel like DAoC isn't getting credit when credit is due. While this system is unique, it has also been done by a "traditional game." That game is DAoC of course. Each realm has a set of classes and those classes can only be taken by certain races. It brings the whole "does it make sense for this race to be this class" thing into the works, and I like it.
DAoC had the same thing. There were 3 different spec. lines you could put points into. The problem is that it wasn't friendly to splashing points into whatever spec you want, due to the game mechanics needing a certain overall point value in order to make a hit with that spell or ability. For example, a Fire Wizard who specializes 32 ranks out of 50 in the Fire line will hit like a lvl 32 when he is 50. There are ways in-game to artificially increase the value of that spec line through gear and realm rank.
I really am not a rude person, but are you serious? Please tell me your are not so ignorant to have no respect for the lore of particular IP's. I am a huge fan of skill- based systems, as you are. I thought Pre-NGE SWG was great. However, I also know that WAR would not be WAR anymore withough classes, because the Warhammer Universe was designed around them, just as WoW was designed with classes in mind. Star Wars on the other hand, makes absolutely no sense to have classes, because it was based on reality a lot more. People in reality have many different skills and rarely master more than 2-3. Lord of the Rings online is a perfect example of a game that used classes when a skill system was more appropriate, however, WAR needs classes or it will be violating the lore.
Think about that.
This article had me LMAO. WTF is sooo unique and interesting about a race, class system. This has been done 10X over, do i really need to name off the games. OH WAIT!! It isn't the same as WoW, so it must be unique and interesting. LOL!!!!
/cut paste race, class
How about letting any race play any profession. That might make me like it again.
Err, well. Since not everyone knows every game there was, it would help if you named at least 10 so we can easily verify your statement.
Regarding the "let every race play every profession", though it has been stated before:
High Elf Squig Herder? Dwarven Chosen? Empire Witch Elf?
Every race has a tank, rogue, mage and healer. However they all play differently. So please list those games that is like that. And games like WoW and EQ2 and not like that at all.
Perfect World
Shaiya
RF Online
And others, im tired, i'll list more later.
Err, well. Since not everyone knows every game there was, it would help if you named at least 10 so we can easily verify your statement.
Regarding the "let every race play every profession", though it has been stated before:
High Elf Squig Herder? Dwarven Chosen? Empire Witch Elf?
I'm kinda partial to the Empire Witch elf thingy.
Nice
I could list reasons why this is the dumbest thing said in the entire thread, but instead I'm just going to call you out as a troll.