Ive played a few now (Hero Online, Carpe Diem, KAL Online, Archlord, 9Drags) and they all seem to suffer the same problems.

1. no craft, therefore no community interdependence, therefore not much ingame community
   • and no RPing (hence MMO not MMORPG)
2. no centralised auctuion house type thingy requires AFK shops or sell to npc for peanuts
   • except Archlord
3. no / little character customisations - your char always ends up looking like everyone elses
   • sure 9Dragons and Archlord have some, but chars still all tend look the same
4. storyline / questing are all thin on the ground or unsatisfactory in terms of XP and providing reasons / answers to the point of the game, which limit the games to...
5. grind, grind, grind - sooner, or even earlier than that, they all boil down to farming the same mobs over ond over again before moving on to the next lot to farm
6. combat, whichever classes you play, the combat quickly becomes repetetive reducing players to automatons, so much so they are often replaced by....
7. bots, as well as gold farmers and the rest of the MMO dregs that stick to these games like flies to sh1t

all that said, if u like Grindfests 9Dragons is the one to go for by a mile (at least till Archlord goes ftp, but you'll still need to pay for the client, or perhaps 2moons will break the mould [with swearing at least])

short answer: no

longer answer: i dont think there is one

You forgot to mention Lineage 2. Grind fest galore. Same stuff different level. RP?? lol not a chance. Casual gamers will quickly fall behind, and at that point your friends that are not hard core will leave the game. Lineage fits your points to a T. To sell you either NPC it for nothing, or you sit AFK in a shop. Lineage does have crafting and it is limited to Dwarves. The dwarf can set up a shop and charge whatever he wishes to for the clicks. Adena farmers are rampant (in game currency). but they also farm crafting materials, boss mobs, and other dungeon goods to the point they will PK you if you come and try to raid it yourself. (Lineage is open PvP)

I dont believe in FTP games, as they always attract immature players, so no advice on that.

Perhaps you are telling the truth, but as long people are playing and buying these games they wont stop creating them. Those game you named above are all succesful in Europe (and other continents as well) so maby people are still interested in silly storylines and endless grinding.

I think all players have the right to choose their own game. People on the MMORPG.com forum are making fun on those who like other games than you do. Why it is so ''ridiculous'' to have other interests?

PS: This does not have alot of value for you, but I just want to share my feelings with others who read this.

sven101 said:

"Perhaps you are telling the truth, but as long people are playing and buying these games they wont stop creating them. Those game you named above are all succesful in Europe (and other continents as well) so maby people are still interested in silly storylines and endless grinding."

The point is these games is that they are already created and being played in East Asia (Korea, China, Thailand, Malaysia etc), and companies are looking to convert them for Western audiences, thus getting an MMO for a tiny fraction of the cost of actually developing one. People are not buying them (hence Archlord backtracking on subscription, and client costs being slashed), they are generally free clients and ftp, with revenues coming from advertising and cash shops (premium items to increase xp rates / superior equiptment etc).

I havnt played Lineage2 or Rappelz, and probably never will such are my expectations of them. I might try 2Moons, just for the blood spatter and to freely enjoy my and other's unmodded use of foul and abusive language (assuming we can freely turn the air blue [though i do hope it is not a forum for racism, sexism, religious bigotry etc]). But i expect to be quickly bored of that because it is not a substitute for content and a decent combat system.

However, cultural tastes and expectations differ widely, and perhaps they dislike the look of western characters (despite chars in the MMO conversions all looking the same, they and their armours do look good), and laugh at our need to pay for the client, and then again for a subscription to play.

Originally posted by bobbler
9dragons didnt reallyfeel like most asian mmos at first. but now at level 45 it does...atleast the skills arent half assed

why people keep complaining about grindfest?

what is the game for?

just go in there kill the mobs and lvl up.....that's what all games are! jesus!

if there is no grind then what else to do on the game?

and what's the fun of playing mmorpg if the game lvl maxed out within a month? no not fun at all............i hate it!

9Dragons is a very good game..........it not just about leveling your character but its also about leveling your skills.

ITS F2P! Stop whining loosers!......if you don't like it then go develope your own game and play yourself.

My biggest complaint with Asian MMOs is the key mappings.  I like games that allow me to use the keyboard to turn left or right.  I remember the first time I tried L2 - thought it was going to be something I could get into.  Had good graphics and I liked the game play but just as soon as I hit my arrow key to make a right turn I ended up doing some strange sideways run.  At first was no big deal.  Thought I'd simply go and remap the key but to my surprise it's just the way it is.

My wife and I went out and spent $60.00 each on the Final Fantasy MMO - My wife who it's very hard to get her to try something different than what she is currently playing was pretty jazzed, too until she got into the game with an elf and it looked nothing like it did when creating it - lets not even go into that stupid long neck they gave it.  But in the end we both gave it about 2 days and simply could not get used to the movement keys. 

Tried RF and was the exact same thing.  I never have understood why they all seem to have the same movement types when trying to turn left or right.  But for me, unless there is some type of try before you buy - I avoid Asian games.

Oh and do those people know anything else other than anime?  Don't get me wrong I like some anime, but sheesh try something different for a change.