When you go AFK, you're taking a risk. When you do something drastic, you're taking a risk. It's all part of the game and I support a death penalty. I want people to think before they act (if they don't then that will turn out either good or bad for them - hence it being called risk) and I don't want the game to cradle them like a baby everytime they die. If people are just plain dumb then I suppose they shouldn't play a game that requires a little of the brain juice.

Games are about winning and losing. In single-player RPGs if you die, guess what? You load up your last save and have to trek through the last area you were at. You know what else happens? You learn what you did wrong and you take the time to correct that, because you don't want to repeat that dungeon or boss again.

When you throw away a death penalty, you change the whole chemistry of gameplay. If you die, no big whoop. Bring someone to revive people during quests. If you die, then no big whoops for others. They can ignore all the risks in that next room and just run on in to get slaughtered a few seconds later. But don't worry, that near team wipe effects nothing because you can just ressurect and do it all over again.

Y'know, I don't want a huge death penalty that will set you back months, but I want one that's going to make me go, "Hm, I really should not do that again."

"Originally posted by Gable
Well 'Hardcore Member', I'm glad you at least took the time to give reasons for why you support the penalty, even if we do disagree on a few things.  Games are about winning and losing?  Not to me, or most people.  Games are about fun. 
And most importantly, going AFK should not be considered taking a risk.  Ever.  Never ever.  Think about what that means?!  A risk?  Answering your phone?  Talking to friends that pop in?  A risk?  No.  Reevaluate that statement, cause it's scary.
As I mentioned before as well, in WOW I turn and ran sometimes, I learned from my mistakes when I died, I was careful and thoughtful as to how to best cope with a situation.  And all with no death penalty, cause dying still sucked!  Sometimes it meant a whole ten minutes of running back to your body!  And to the casual gamer, THAT is still too much wasted time, but I agree, necessary.
Death penalty supporters keep doggedly mentioning that it is there to keep stupid people from taking risks.  Is a corpse run not enough?  No?  You need to take hours from that person?  Really?  And what about in a game like Lineage, where you could be killed by anyone, anytime, anywhere, and lose xp.  Does getting griefed make you stupid?  And arent those same stupid people just going to cost others there valuable time by griefing them?   We ARE talking about stupid people here.
I don't need to suffer an xp penalty so that reckless people can be taught a lesson. 
Anyway, I'm likely preaching to the unconvertable here, since the casual gamer rarely takes the time to post on forums.  But believe me, the death penalty will one day be but a painful memory, as games broaden thier horizons and start to break away from the archaic formats in lieu of making games more accessable and fun.
WOW is the most popular mmorpg on earth, and absolutely overwhelmed the competition in North America.  Was it because of the graphics?  Hell no!  Have you SEEN the ears on those dirty alliance night elves?  Hideous!
No, it is simply more fun.  Fun.  THAT is what gaming is about.  Who's gonna tell me that death penalties are fun?  Any masochists out there?  Risk is fun, yes.  Wasted time is not.

And wow, I just thought of another great point.  Know what you get in games with pvp and death penalties?  Trash talking, spending all kinds of time bitching to people or responding to people you killed.  In games with a death penalty you'll get griefer who will corpse camp you jus becasue they KNOW they can kill you again, and therefore rob you of even MORE precious time!"

I like how you're trying throw little attitude things at me for being a decently active forum member. Funny stuff. So in response "Advanced Member" I'm not a hardcore gamer. Not anymore at least. I'm lucky to play three to four hours a day and only on my days off work could/can I work in more time. And that's only on days where I can play at all.

Wasted time. Wasted time. Wasted time. You say it over and over and over again. Well, when there's a death penalty it's part of the game. If you don't like that then don't play the game and go onto something else. Games in general are a form of entertainment, and to others they're altogether considered a waste of time. I personally like the death penalty and you don't, so I don't see why we're really discussing this. We each have our opinion on the matter and we're not going to change it.

And in response to the last paragraph. If you can't deal with trashtalking then why do you play PvP games, or MMO games for that matter? It's in every single one of them. No matter which one you play you'll encounter the same kind of people.

"I'd rather play a game in which stupid people can take reckless risks than a game in which they can anger and irritae me by depriving me of hours of my life!  You have to be pretty hopelessly hardcore to think otherwise."

Then don't play ArchLord. I mean, what's the point of this back and forth? ArchLord has a death penalty. It's set in stone. So yeah, I'm so hopelessly hardcore it's not even funny.

I agree with Ides, there neeeds to be a death penalty or we get that rambo-style all over. I was used to think before doing anything in L2. And this is nothing outdatet.
If you dont like it, dont play it.
Simple, isnt it?

What is your problem? Making a book out of every comment?
I already said i dont mind cuz i was used to it.

---

Yeah, Rambo Style. I hate that. Worse thing in a game ever, eh? Yeah. Rambo....what? What!? You're saying that a rambo style of play is the game-ruining equivelant of griefing and xp loss? C'mon, haha!

---

Did i said that? No.

---

And I guess your right, xp loss isn't going out of style at all. That's why they keep getting bigger and bigger right? Soon when you die you'll just die, and your character will be gone entirely. Wouldn't that be awesome!? Then people would really, really think before they do things! Just like in real life, right? Hey, that way we could make it just like real life and take out the fun of being reckless in a game right? No more Rambo..er..Ram...

---

What has this to do with real life? And i will soon just die and die and die and .... ye and i will be gone forever! *laughs*

---

Try saying it.
...All guns blazing!
...xp loss.
...hm.

Are there ANY other reasons anyone would like to give besides the dreaded 'rambo-style' theory. Keep in mind I've raised about 50 valid points against it, all of which blow the rambo thing out of the water, I think.

No, no I think I will play Archlord, and (man am I ever laughing right now) if you could all give me your character names so I could grief you over and over and show you a far worse aspect of the game than 'all guns blazing'. Geez! Rambo style? Are you kidding me? Is it so terrible? Worse than griefing? No, don't answer that, cause it's not.

Every post in favour of the death penalty just restates someones disdain for 'reckless play'. I covered it in an earlier post: In WOW (no xp loss) we still thought before doing things, or else we'd have the sting of defeat (not the agonizing loss of xp) and a corpse run ahead of us. It was enough. Stupid people will play the game regardless, and they will do stupid things.

As I said before though. If even basic logic can't change your mind, someday griefers will, or an afternoon spent playing instead of doing something you were supposed to do and having it drained away by an unfortunate death.

A game in which you cannot get up and answer the phone/doorbell/family without fear of xp loss is not a game. It is something much worse. Worse than 'rambo-style'. Well, almost.

---

I already said, if you dont like it, dont play it. Dont take peoples words and make em into flames and useless comments cuz they have other opinions. And what has it to do with griefing? Your valid points are doorbells/phone/family ? Oh yea, try saying 'afk' if you party. If you solo and this happens, its your own fault.

I think its up to anyone by their selfs if they wanna play a game with death penalty or not. If you agree with it and give it a try, then ok. If not, keep your current game or it will be a waste of time. And theres also the beta. You dont have to pay anything and you can test the game.
Your not forced to play AL.
For the RL stuff. It happens in all mmorpg's to a lot of peoples. Heck, it even happens to me but im on my own then. Its not the dev's fault.

Personally I agree with Gable. XP loss is unnecessarily punishing paying customers. I normally play glass cannon classes...you know the ones with no defense and all offense. Games that have xp loss punish that playing style.

If you go to a restaurant as a paying customer and order a huge steak you don't get punched by the waiter if you can't finish it; you get a doggy bag so you can finish it later. Same thing here, I'm paying to play a game and negating time spent, (or more pointedly...time bought), isn't a practice that developers should be following.

It was fine on the first gen MMORPGs, but gaming has evolved and so should the developer's mindset. If we stuck to old standards we'd still be playing Pong.

Lets just hope that there will be no farmers in that game