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Castle Thorn Software / Nexeon Technologies | Official Site
MMORPG | Genre:Sci-Fi | Status:Final  (rel 09/21/07)  | Pub:Castle Thorn Software / Nexeon Technologies
PVP:Yes | Distribution:Download | Retail Price:n/a | Pay Type:Subscription
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StarQuest Online Forum » General Discussion » Did anyone "read" the licence agreement for this game?

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32 posts found
  twhint

Novice Member

Joined: 4/23/05
Posts: 563

10/19/07 8:46:30 AM#21

Anti-cheating software is a necessary evil in a lot of cases. The same for DRM. People have an inherent dishonesty and these are methods of keeping the 'honest' man honest. If there is a software without any method of controlling cheating, people will cheat if it's easy to do.

Will this stop hackers? Of course not. It simply discourages the average player from cheating. Besides, to get around this, you just have to have a second machine running the packet sniffer, like what they did with EQ's Macroquest. Not really that big of a deal, but just enough to discourage the average player.

  A7XFan

Novice Member

Joined: 6/04/07
Posts: 19

1/01/08 12:08:37 AM#22
Originally posted by Glassrunner

Zorvan for President!

The-Raven for Secretary of Defense!

I really like how you guys lay the smack down. Sounds like this game could be used as a trojan.

As for CastleThorn, you suck. Fix the exploits instead of resorting to snooping.

And in case i forgot to mention, you suck.

Did you even read the thread? Who deleated my other post?

  duomenox

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/12/07
Posts: 14

1/09/08 4:11:15 PM#23

I understand that CT has changed their wording... but there are laws that define these charactoristics as virus activity.

Under current US legislation, any program that installs updates and/or other software without the express permission of the owner of the computer is considered a virus. The EULA cannot be used to circumvent these requirements.

"Express permission" can be granted in a number of ways. Either by requireing a person to click "OK" or by having a person enable a setting to recieve automatic updates are both ways to satisfy the express permission requirement. That is why you see many programs offer the automatically install updates option during the end of a software installation.

CT (and all other companies) could suggest this during install... but still need the user to enable the feature. In addition, CT should (if they do not already) refuse to allow a client with an older version number to connect before applying any new updates. This will require all users to apply the updates, even if they have to manually accept each one.

As for the scanning of all files on the hard drive, this is defined as virus behavior by current US legislation as well.

There is not any need to allow a game to scan and harvest whichever information they want (even if they claim it is for cheating purposes) from your hard drive. The only place a piece of software needs to look for cheat programs is memory. Since a program cannot be running unless it is in memory, there is not any reason that the hard drive needs to be scanned.

The argument can be made that virtual memory (aka pagefiles) are on the hard disk. This does not mean that the program needs to scan the disk... all the contents of virtual memory are addressed in the memory tables of the OS. Virtual memory is access the same as physical memory, therefore there should ne be any permission needed for games to scan the hard drive and harvest whatever data they want in order to curb cheating. It's all in the memory.

A better solution for the EULA would contain something along the lines of:

"Licensee understands and agrees that the information that may be inspected and reported by Castle Thorn software is limited to devices and any files or programs located in the memory, or virtual memory, of the computer known to be used for the purpose of reverse engineering, packet sniffing, or other activities used to gain advantages in the game not intended by the game’s designers."

Granted, I'm not a regular on these forums, but this EULA issue annoys the hell out of me. I do have to say that I applaud CT for responding to these concerns the way that they did. I just feel that I cannot install this game, nor any game that uses PunkBuster (thanks for the info about that) onto my system... there is not any way that these companies can guarentee that their software will not be used to harvest things like my SSN, or account information. And there is not any way I can prove they did... they look for sniffers which is what I would need to verify they are not stealing valuable information off my system. I would have to use an external PC to sniff, and I don't feel like looking at all the RAW data just to feel safer when I play a game.

Most important lesson learned from the thread...

READ THE EULA!

  Lyserious

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/07
Posts: 15

1/17/08 10:43:01 PM#24

Well...dont cheat and you dont have to worry about anything.

  Anofalye

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/19/03
Posts: 7442

The enemy is so dumb! They believe that WE are the enemy! - A famous orc commander.

2/05/08 8:14:39 PM#25

Afraid to share your porn? :P

- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - René Levesque about the denial NO on the poll to his dream, project and goal. (Free translation)

  User Deleted
2/05/08 8:28:20 PM#26

for those that think themselves in the know, what do you think WOW does? hmmm?

this is no different than what blizzard does (and a few more i would wager, they just dont say), might want to check your files if you play wow, you might be surprised.

  User Deleted
3/10/08 3:14:50 PM#27

actually blizzard got into a a lot of crap about the 2nd or 3rd week for doing it so yeah.

  minchet456

Novice Member

Joined: 6/16/06
Posts: 43

5/30/08 6:20:34 PM#28

Duo: The company asks your permission for everything in the EULA. If you want to give them permission to snoop, then agree. If not, then dont play, simple as that. I just find it funny that everyone is comparing this to a virus. Though it may have similaritys, people dont usually ask for your permission to install a virus on your computer. " Hey, can I install a trojan on your Comp?." 
You dont really here that. The funny thing is, everyone is worried about how this EULA states that they want the right to snoop if they see a reason to. Does anyone realize that every mmorpg has access to your IP Address. If someone really wanted to screw up your computer, thats there point of entry friends. Dont like it dont play.

PS: Ive never even played this game, just dont like people complaining about stuff that they have complete control of. And big ups to CT. They did a great job of listening to there players and changing the EULA to make everyone more comfortable. Great going.

  weylin6

Novice Member

Joined: 10/31/07
Posts: 18

6/25/08 6:06:30 AM#29

wow, theres alot of fail in this thread

You know, I don't think you can call it a virus if it

1. explains exactly what it will do

2. you approve of it's actions by pressing accept

 

I assure you they have no intention of stealing your porn, or even personal information, only what data is related to cheating and game files.

  Drafell

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/03
Posts: 589

DarkSpace

6/25/08 6:15:33 AM#30

There are a LOT of EULA's out there that are far worse, and for some of the most popular game titles.

  gorguk

Novice Member

Joined: 10/18/05
Posts: 168

6/25/08 6:18:18 AM#31

pretty much all games do this. even wow does it. i remember a big stink about it a while back cuz a program in WoW sends blizz a list of every program you have running.

  zymurgeist

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5186

6/25/08 6:34:23 AM#32

Just because you sign an EULA allowing them to scan your hard drive doesn't mean they can do anything they want with the information. The privacy laws still apply. Oh and read the EULA that comes with your OS. That thing is insane.

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

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