I hate to burst your bubble but the microtransaction model is the prefered format for almost all new MMORPGs so be prepared to be pigeon holed into WOW (the only NON failing P2P) and skip all new games.

Even American games are going to be going with the successful microtransaction model as more games like Conan fail at the starting gate.  Yes, JoyMax is terrible with customer service but Silkroad Online is one of the first truly sucessful tries the asian market has made so far.  I dont think they were prepared for the rush of cheaters the international community can provide.  It is not JMs fault perse that the community is so morally bankrupt as to be 99% willing to cheat its way to sucess.

I enjoy this game and I am willing to pay to play it.  When I am no longer willing, I will quit.

Well, you haven't actually burst my bubble like you said Nightbloom, you've actually played right into what I wanted to happen...

There are cheaters, true, but the real question is why Joymax hasn't this problem for years now. By now, if Joymax was serious about killing off bots for good, they would've already done so. Now, I'm not completely implementing that Joymax is the mastermind behind the bots, but you have to understand that there is alot of solid evidence showing that Joymax is the true mastermind after all. Joymax could've handled the amount of people coming into this game easily, they did that for years. And it's been even more years and Joymax still hasn't solved the problem yet?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize what is going on right now. Even if Joymax didn't create the bots to begin with, they could be purposely ignoring the problem to create crowdation so that legits have no choice but to buy premiums.

I understand Nightbloom that you are a correspondant of the game, so logically you can't say many bad things about the company. But trying to shift blame to the people who play the game from the company that does nothing to solve the problem isn't exactly a fair idea. There are many legits on that website. To implement that the extreme majority of people on that game cheated is not fair or right, there are plenty of legits like myself who have fought to end the bot problem. So, in all total, Joymax has alot of answering to do for the years they have left Silkroad Online in the poor condition it is now. At this point, stopping the cheaters who use bots is a simple matter. Joymax simply has decide they want to solve the bot problem and poof! No more bots. So in order to solve the bot problem for good, we need to direct our attention towards the source of the problems. And that is Joymax, a company that has shown little support to the users and has ignored the bot problem for years (those weekly bot bans are pathetic, and those bots banned have a tendency to show up again). It's time to give Joymax a wake-up call...and pray that they do the right thing and destroy bots for good...

not to disagree with nightbloom - but JoyMax has GameGuard splash screen. Whether it ever functioned idk. What i do know is that players who botted were banned. Go back a year or year and a half ago on Babel. So to say JoyMax underestimated the cheaters, i disagree. They seemingly gave up the fight. Now, what the game is on most servers is a botfest. Babel has whole unions of player's goldfarming/SOX-farming bots. The game environment is atrocious. But JoyMax allowed it to become this state. Before you suggest it nightbloom, i refuse to start over (again) on another server. But thank you as i know you are on Venus and wish you luck there :)

I bought premium tickets on Babel up to 6 months ago, just for access. Even used to buy premium for a friend. Now  I refuse to support a company who does not ban any bot for 6 months on my server. Babel is ahead of the bot curve the rest of you are seeing on your servers. I can tell you, it is uglier than you can imagine. Economy, academy, jobbing, and yes partying is horrendous. Everyone is afk. This is no fun anymore. It has become more of a single-player grindfest.

Originally posted by nightbloom

I hate to burst your bubble but the microtransaction model is the prefered format for almost all new MMORPGs so be prepared to be pigeon holed into WOW (the only NON failing P2P) and skip all new games.

Even American games are going to be going with the successful microtransaction model as more games like Conan fail at the starting gate.  Yes, JoyMax is terrible with customer service but Silkroad Online is one of the first truly sucessful tries the asian market has made so far.  I dont think they were prepared for the rush of cheaters the international community can provide.  It is not JMs fault perse that the community is so morally bankrupt as to be 99% willing to cheat its way to sucess.

I enjoy this game and I am willing to pay to play it.  When I am no longer willing, I will quit.

By now everyone should know that some game distributors work with the gold farmers and share in the profits.  SRO is a PRIME example of this.  They wipe the bots only when the game becomes unplayable, yet take no real steps to keep them out. I see it as a PR move only.

Also about the f2p as the wave of the future is laughable.  How much would you have to pay per month to unlock all of the payed content? More than any p2p game.

Sure this game gives you the option to pay for free, but its designed to require more than $15 a month to log on, chat globally, and progress at a reasonable pace. 

If you need to bot to hit endgame, and need to buy gold to purchase highly inflated equipment, people will do it.  THis game is set up to do exactly that.

I however do agree with the morally bankrupt community however, spot on with it.  Im just glad there are a lot of decent p2p games out there with a better community, actual content, better gameplay, and costs me lest per month than this and all the other f2p grinders that are pumped off the grinder assembly lines. 

How people can enjoy the mind numbing grind and be willing to pay for it is beyond me.  The pretty bloom graphics in this game get old fast when you realize what they quests are like, how few of them there are, and the overall lack of a storyline.

This game is hands down the apitamy of why f2p international games blow.  Overdone grind, overpriced shop, terrible community, more cheaters than real players. BUT ITS FREE!!!!!!!!!!!!11!!!!!!!!!1!!!!

American games using f2p will never be popular, doent take long to figure out that p2p games are cheaper and better quality in the long run, its why the p2p games do much better than the f2p trash.

Originally posted by hootsmom

not to disagree with nightbloom - but JoyMax has GameGuard splash screen. Whether it ever functioned idk. What i do know is that players who botted were banned. Go back a year or year and a half ago on Babel. So to say JoyMax underestimated the cheaters, i disagree. They seemingly gave up the fight. Now, what the game is on most servers is a botfest. Babel has whole unions of player's goldfarming/SOX-farming bots. The game environment is atrocious. But JoyMax allowed it to become this state. Before you suggest it nightbloom, i refuse to start over (again) on another server. But thank you as i know you are on Venus and wish you luck there :)

I bought premium tickets on Babel up to 6 months ago, just for access. Even used to buy premium for a friend. Now  I refuse to support a company who does not ban any bot for 6 months on my server. Babel is ahead of the bot curve the rest of you are seeing on your servers. I can tell you, it is uglier than you can imagine. Economy, academy, jobbing, and yes partying is horrendous. Everyone is afk. This is no fun anymore. It has become more of a single-player grindfest.

sorry to repost, but this quote proves my points, when i played this game more than a year ago it was in the exact same state, i understand that joymax took steps to rememdy this situation, and now its back to what it was, a game chocked full of bots.

wonder how much you really would have to pay per month, counting bots/buying gold/ticket to log on/needed consumables/everything else you need from the shop?

If you want a better grind and you want it free, go play rappelz, they atleast take steps to activly ban bots/farmers.  but even that game you could easily spend $100 a month on the cash shop to be competative.

americans see right past this scam that is f2p, which is why it will never be the prefered method of payment. 

Originally posted by crunchyblack on 5/17/09 at 8:35:13 AM

sorry to repost, but this quote proves my points, when i played this game more than a year ago it was in the exact same state <snip>

wonder how much you really would have to pay per month, counting bots/buying gold/ticket to log on/needed consumables/everything else you need from the shop?

What server/s were you playing on?

Cost: no idea on bot or other 3rd party programs, but .... item mall:

minimum $15 for silver premium ticket

$5 pet revival

skill ticket varies

Although you do prove many points Crunchyblack, there are some things I wish to point out:

1. Most mmorpg games have mind numbing grinding. It becomes fun when you play with a group however. I have played for years on Silkroad Online, and I have met alot of interesting people on that game. The problem exists with the bots who overcrowd the servers now. If there were no bots, I think there would be way fewer complains about grinding on that game (until the level caps start reaching closer and closer to 150 and it starts becoming impossible to level up quickly without the usage of the item mall).

2. In all actuality, the real minimum that a legit player would ever have to pay is the silver premium for $15, so I don't think that this whole "spend $100 per month" idea applies to everyone. I know that there are some truly crazed fanatics that would spend hundreds (and in a few cases, thousands) of dollars on that game, but they are very few. Honestly, the only things I would get if I ever did buy again from the item mall is a silver premium and the occasional avatar suit that comes up that strikes me fancy (I would love the idea of wearing a pirate outfit). Of course, I'm avoiding the item mall until Joymax does something to solve the bot problem (or at the very least reduce crowdation somehow, like implementing the AFK boot or an auction house to get rid of AFK stalls, and Joymax takes steps to solving the bot problem too).

Silkroad Online does have problems of course. The game still feels like it was built for the lvl 70-80 caps (when the game was good and botless), and if Joymax doesn't take steps to solve this game's problems, Silkroad Online will devolve into a mindless grind fest with few real human players on it. They should raise exp. you get per enemy and lower sp you need to completely farm skills (or increase the amount of skill points you get). They need ways to get rid of AFKers that crowd servers (not as bad as bots, but it is a problem). Above all things, they need to get rid of bots.

You know what the bizarre thing is? As far as I know, Silkroad Online is the only Joymax controlled game that has a bot problem. The other Silkroad games out there (Chinese Silkroad, Turkish Silkroad, etc.) don't seem to have bot problems, and they have reported to have excellent support by GMs. I think what is happening right now is that Joymax sees Silkroad Online (also known as ISRO) as a lost cause, and they're trying to milk as much money possible before they completely abandon Silkroad Online to the bots. And many people from ISRO have jumped ship to the other Silkroads. But the problem is once ISRO dies out, Joymax is going to lose their ultimate cash cow. So, it's not hard to see another one of their games being infested by bots all of a sudden.

So here is where we break the cycle! I apologize for the fact that I have not created a boycott thread in an area where a mass majority would see it, but that original spot I saw ended up not being a good idea. So, until then, continue to rally here! Then, once I get a boycott forum running in an area visited by a mass majority, then the Silk boycott here will go into full effect...

Note: I have editted this post after reading more carefully of what I have typed. Here are new "aftermath" thoughts.

Someone has started a petition against Joymax. This petition, if it's successful, will prompt Joymax to either improve support and get rid of bots (and in general, all third party illegal programs) or face possible suing in the future. Although I wish it hadn't come to this point, I ask that you support this petitiion for the good of Silkroad Online.

Here is the site for the petition. I have checked it, and so far it seems legit.

www.thepetitionsite.com/takeaction/978723855

If you've supported the boycott all this time, then sign the petition!

Victory for the boycott is within view now...

http://kepler.sos.ca.gov/corpdata/ShowAllList?QueryCorpNumber=C2872817

this is the company information provided by the California Secretary of State/Business Division.

It is also the address for any legal mail and/or correpondence for JoyMax in the USA

The petition thing is a waste of time, there have already been several petitions, with enough signatures, and yet nothing happened.

 There have also been people who tried to take legal action, and got nowhere. This is because joymax is based in Korea, and are not a civilized group of business people.

 They do not even allow you to contact them, and if you somehow figure out how.. They won't give you a response unless your question is about how you can give them money.

 My guess, they are racist and hate anyone who is non-korean.  Im not sure why they let the game be ruined.  but in my opinion it is way to late. I handgrinded to lvl 80 when that was the cap, listening to filth from the GM's like "keep up the good work"  "Bot users WILL be found and banned"  "Silk buying or not, famous or not, all cheaters will be banned, end of story"

 I handgrinded to lvl 80 from lvl 1.  and im talking about before euros, and before powerleveling. And all i got was a "who cares?" once i made it there.

 Im sorry but the creators/Gm's of this game are plain disrepectful to their best customers, real players.  Sure some botter might be spending a months rent on the game, but in the end they aren't making it better for other players.

This game used to be great.... USED TO.  Now with 5 hour long botting tickets, the removal of the protector item (not sure if nightbloom or any other joymax supporter who probably started this game last year can remember those... but they were items that actually KILLED bots, and were sold at the jewelry merchant in town!) Its obvious they want the people who are currently addicted to it, to spend as much money possible.

 The tactics used by this company make me sick, they create a decent game, get some hardcore players addicted, then slowly add costly items which in my opinion we are forced to buy.  Sure nobody is holding a gun to your head.  but if you spend years of your life on something, you are mostly likely not going to want to see it be all for nothing when the alternative is 15, 20, 50 even 100$ a month.

 Think about it, if you were a great player in a game, lets say a sport like football. and next year, to play is going to cost you 20$... sure you will. after all, you are a great player, and its a part of your life that you aren't willing to let go of. you trained all year, you are ready to show off... maybe the year after the cost is 50$.  chances are you will pay that as well.

 I think our only choice is really a few options.

1. someone organizes a group of people to get on a plane, and fly over to Korea, go to joymax and demand some answers. Bring our own body gaurds as well in case joymax tries to force us out of the lobby of their headquarters or something. Perhaps they would even try and cause you harm.

2. A massive co-ordinated internet strike.  Attack first, goldbotting headquarters in turkey and china. Damage their servers, etc.

 What can they do? call the police? FBI?  what they are doing is "illegal" according to joymax (even though we know they are working together)  so we are only fighting fire with fire on that. After damaging their computers and costing them time, perhaps we can force a shutdown.  They use slave labour, so they wont be willing to put much work into fighting back.

3.Create our own servers.  Yes ive heard of the terrible private servers out there.  But myself, im a very honest and fair person. Maybe moreso than anyone else who has played this game as long as i have.  I think i know what it would take to bring a balance to the game and provide a nice gaming environment, without modifying the games content from how the old gamers remember it.

 Our servers would be operating "illegally"  but it doesnt matter since joymax themselves are a fraudulent company.  Perhaps we could use proxies or something to hide out server location.

 My server would have absolutely no botting, with no exceptions.  Id have a raised EXP event often, and higher droprates too.

 The rules wouldnt be terribly strict. Just enough to make the gameplay something people look forward too. I wouldnt sell GM status, or seal of sun items.  In fact, my server would be entirely free to play, and run off of donations or something similar so that the average poor person could still reach the top with a little hard work. and the average person with more money than brains, would not neccesarily be the king on the game.

Hootsmom: Excellent, with this information you have provided us any person can now contact Joymax by means of letters and other related correspondance.

EpicWin: Interesting thoughts, here's my thoughts on them.

Idea 1: It would do nothing but help the boycott if a group of hardcore fans had the money and did this. If Joymax allows them in, we could finally figure out why the situation has degraded like this from their own mouths, and if they lie then we have propaganda to use against a company that is starting to believe their own lies now. And if they refused to let the people in, then we can use it as propaganda to show how Joymax was so evil and heartless they would not allow fans of their own game in. This idea requires alot of coordination and people willing to spend money and time for an MMORPG, so it's unlikely to happen by anyone except people that like the game and happen to live in South Korea. Actually, now that I think of it, if we could mobilize a group of people in South Korea to do this, this idea could work...

Idea 2: Absolutely no. We do want improved support by Joymax, and we want the bots to die. But a straight up hacking of Joymax would not be in the best interests of the Silk Boycott. We want to improve the situation, not terrorize Joymax with hacker threats. This could even be perceived as a terrorist act, and I do not want to see anyone who supported the Silk Boycott to go to jail all for an MMORPG game.

Idea 3: Hmmm...tricky situation here. First off, user-created private servers are illegal, and there's always that possibility that the creator could turn evil with the server idea and do something very destructive. However, if Joymax actually allowed third party servers into the game and the creators of those servers aren't evil, then it's not hard to see botless servers in the future. The way to convince Joymax to allow third party servers is beyond me. This idea has potential good, but it also has potential dangers as well.

These are interesting thoughts EpicWin. Idea 1 could work, Idea 3 has potential, and overall these thoughts have me thinking.

...

One last thing everyone. I have been devising another idea, one that could be a potentially good idea for the Silk Boycott. I will announce it when I have the idea down.

Also, I have officially posted a boycott forum inside the general discussion area. I ask that if you supported the Silk Boycott here, then support it again on that forum. The name is very similar to this thread. But do not abandon this thread, I will still talk in this one as well.

Howbout we hire chuck norris to go over their and kick their asses as they leave the office and go to their cars in the parking lot?

 :)

Anyway, i wasnt talking about hacking joymax, itself. i was talking about an attack on the goldbotting companies. Since, according to joymax, they are operating illegally, they would have no case against us with the authorities.  Sort of like, if you burned a field of cocaine, you couldnt get arrested for destruction of property.

This is Cassiopaeia.

I have a message for everyone from Ramen.

Due to personal reasons, the player known on here and on the iSRO forums as RamenThief7 will be offline for a while.

Before anyone says anything...No, the reasons for him going offline have NOTHING to do with the boycott itself.  He is not getting cold feet, rest assured of that.

Until his return, he has asked me to take over on the Silk Boycott.  I will do so, but only until he returns to us.

So let's spread the word to not only the SRO players, but our fellow F2P gamers as well.  What happens to this game can and will have serious reprocussions elsewhere in the MMORPG gaming world, especially if others decide to follow SRO's example.  Let's keep the boycott going!

I already posted this in the main thread of the silk boycott, but I'll state it here also for anyone who doesn't know this already.

Because of personal reasons, I will not be online as often as before. So, since the boycott can't survive if the leader isn't always around, Cassiopaeia is the new official leader of the silk boycott on MMORPG.com. I believe she will be an excellent leader and will lead the boycott to victory. I'll be on whenever I can to show support, but I will not be on often anymore.

Heh ...bots was a reason for me to leave Silkroad years ago.... i hate spots crowded by bots.

Way too true, PsyhoMir!  I may be wrong but I don't think there is any legit that would like a game that's swarming with bots, like this one is, much less one that forces legits to turn into cheats.

I have been reading posts since the start of this boycott where other players that don't support it say stuff like "It's just 1 in 10,000 games, just go to another one" or "This one's dead, just play something else."  My take on it is this:  Up until the boycott here started, I was one of them.  I'm not now for three reasons.

1)  Like I have said in the General Discussion in the main forums:  Sure, people can do that:  when a game's infested with bots and the company doesn't care, just run away to another game.  The part of that concept that a lot of ppl miss is this: ...until the game you ran to gets to that point, then run from it to the next one, and so on.  I wonder, what would happen if and when we run out of games?  Where do we run to then?  I wonder what answer Nightbloom, as the Correspondant, has to that question?

2)  I'm sure there are a lot of hopeful newbies that got disenchanted with this game.  Again, speaking from personal experience as one of them.  I'm also sure that a lot of them hold a tiny piece of hope that someday they might see why it is that so many ppl playing this game are willing to stick it out.  I personally want to see for myself why people would be drawn to this game, but the only way that is going to happen is to get rid of the bots.

3)  There are plenty of people, in and off the forums, that say, "This game is dead, just let it disappear and go elsewhere."  I can speak for myself on this:  This game may be dying, but I for one am not going to let it die off without a fight.  I hope that everyone that supports the boycott will also keep the fight up to the last virtual breath.

I thought that I would post an update.

There are plenty of people that are signing on with this boycott.  That's evident not only here, but in the General Forums section, too.  We need to keep it up.  Not only through forums, but word-of-mouth too, so that players that don't read the forums can get involved, too.

Also, I have sent an e-mail to someone very influential in the MMORPG world, asking for support and help.  This person is very high up in the IGN's staff.  If I get an answer, I will post it here and in the other Silk Boycott thread on this site.

not sure why, but when i try to sign into the joymax forum, i get an Error 2.

see my seperate thread about Jangan Cave goldbots.

ED:  I rarely do make mistakes, but I do admit it when I do...and this is my error.

I had misinterpreted what might have very well been either a few-hours-ban or a computer error as a perm-ban.  For that, I apologize.

This situation, though, has also called to attention that it is very possible that in order to silence the boycott, Joymax could very well ban us from their site.

Instead of seeing it as a reason to quit, it would be better to keep the possibility in mind and, if it happens, see it as an opportunity.

---

Originally posted by Yamota
I boycot any MMORPG that requires you to pay money, other than the standard monthly fee, to be competetive. So that would include Silkroad Online.
Success in a MMORPG should come from skills, cooperation and dedication. Not from the size of your wallet.

---

/discussion.