| Pros |
|
|
| Cons |
|
|
The basic A.I. for most of your opponents in Spellborn is really what makes combat exciting. Animals will juke around to try and avoid your hits, and will even spread out to avoid AoEs at times. Humanoid NPCs though are a real treat to fight. They often fight as a pack, with the melee units trying to get and keep you in their face while the ranged units will, and this is the best part, try to kite you. I’ve heard of players kiting mobs, but I’ve never heard of mobs attempting to kite players. If you decimate most of an enemy group the remnants will attempt to flee once they realize the endeavor is no longer in their favor.
There are some caveats though, a big stand out is the Rune Mage. The fire spells which make up most of the Rune Mages arsenal inflict their target with a Burning DoT. This DoT will spread to melee attackers, and this includes team mates. This makes teaming with Rune Mages a risky notion. Exploring the issue, I found that the developers feel this is an intended effect and have at least no short term plans to make changes on this front.
This brings us to Player vs. Player combat, which is another area the combat system falls short. The most basic issue here is simply a network issue. The game has synchronization issues. This means that often times a player is not where you actually see him on screen. This sort of thing is rampant even when simply playing with other people cooperatively; as they will report seeing you in places you are not. I can think of many occasions where I’ve asked my friend what he was doing “over there” only to be told he was standing right next to me, and vice-versa. This issue has, as you can imagine, a serious implications for PvP combat. While it doesn’t always occur, you can never really say when it is. Did I miss that shot because I actually missed? Or it because the server thinks the player is actually somewhere else?
Another issue is simply one of balance. Ranged combat dominates Spellborn PvP. Everyone has ranged abilities, even the warrior types, and most melee types I fought didn’t even bother trying to get into melee with me, choosing to simply ran around kiting with their bow.
Bugs also plague Spellborn combat. While I did not experience many general bugs playing Spellborn, I would say a majority of the bugs experienced involved improperly functioning, or entirely non-functional skills.
It’s also unfortunate that most of Spellborn’s PvP experience is not quite implemented yet. There isn’t much reason to fight anyone; you don’t even lose PeP levels in PvP.
Crafting
Crafting is a simple endeavor in Spellborn. Recipes for items drop from mobs, or are awarded from quests. Once you have a recipe you then simply gather the resources required from creatures or resource nodes and create the item at a forge. Crafting guilds will not find much to look forward to here.
On the other hand, players who abhor crafting, like myself, will find themselves annoyed. Many quests will give you a recipe for an item as a reward instead of the item itself. I would rather have a choice. Especially since many resources seem to be either rare or unavailable. It’s truly disappointing completing a long quest chain only to be rewarded with a recipe for a really neat item that you must go on a wild goose chase to assemble. It’s like many of the quest rewards are “assembly required.”
Community
The community of Spellborn was generally quite helpful. As many will surely say, once you leave the “Freemium” area you will experience a sort of culture-shock when you return to it. I naturally had many questions when playing the game and many players were eager to indulge me.
The community features of the game are pretty sparse, though. I did join a guild, but I found the guild options to be underwhelming. Outside of choosing a logo for your guild, there aren’t many things you can do with it. Also, I feel the ability to recruit players from different Houses will be ultimately detrimental to the games faction warfare. You cannot attack players within your own guild, but you also cannot aid guild members against players of the same house.
The most innovative community feature Spellborn provides its players is the conduction of a live weekly webinar with the developers. Players who attend these webinars get to directly ask questions of the developers. These webinars are recorded for the community, but the best stuff comes out when the tape is turned off, as many of the developers will stick around and chat about the game with the players. Also, the software used allows for the developers to show players things alongside the discussion. For example, the webinar I attended had a developer show the game being played live in order to give us a look at a new armor set to be featured in an upcoming patch. The developers definitely deserve a big kudos for being so in touch with their community.
Customer Service
The customer service options are curious. There is absolutely no in game support UI. The only way to get help in game from a GM is to simply solicit help from them in zone chat. If they are listening, they will lend a hand. Who’s to say the person I’m talking to isn’t impersonating a GM? I found the system a bit amateurish. It did work, there was almost always a GM on hand to answer my questions, they were all kind, courteous, and informative. The system is simply not intuitive though.
UI / Performance
Since Spellborn runs on a pretty old engine, the performance is mostly stellar on modern machines, and I imagine scales well for lower ones.
The UI on the other hand, is one of the worst aspects of Spellborn. I would go as far as to describe it as rudimentary at best. You cannot move or drag much around, you cannot resize most windows, the most you can hope to do is simply collapse different areas of it. There are also issues with fonts. Quest text fonts require you squint to read them at higher resolutions, and there is no way to adjust this. This goes for chat as well, you can set the font to Large, but it is not very large at all. The developers at Spellborn International definitely have much room for improvement with the UI.
Some basic UI elements found in more recent MMOG releases are also curiously absent from Spellborn. There is no quest tracker for example, forcing you to read through the quest text for hints. Most of the time the quest text is pretty sufficient, but of course, it was also a torturous experience due to the tiny fonts.
The Verdict
All in all, I would say Spellborn is a must-try MMOG, if just to experience the combat and skill mechanics. The game is clearly incomplete, more so than most MMOG launches, but has content sufficient enough to take you to the level cap, and developers paying great attention to their players’ concerns. You won’t find the most engaging PvP experience, or even a fully realized endgame PvE experience, but the barrier to entry is also quite low. There is no box to purchase, you simply download the game, and should you be curious to see how far the rabbit hole goes you’re only out 15 bucks.
The Chronicles of Spellborn is a true-blue themepark MMOG, and I have no reservations recommending anyone to try out the rides at least once.
| Pages(3): | First | « Previous | 1 | 2 | 3 |
Nice review. I wish all the reviews on this site were done as well as this one.
Thanks for the compliment!
It's indeed a good game, your pro' and cons are also what I think.
It's sad the servers are so empty ... and with empty I mean empty, I met no-one ...
Very nice review. I am officially bored again and prowling about for another game and this review helps me sift through the options. I think it sounds interesting and maybe something I will try at some point, however, I do not think I will enjoy it in its current described state. No matter how good a games basic features/ideas are I do require some basic functionality that you describe as missing. I will wait another month or two and see how things are going.
This is perhaps the biggest thing most developers still have not learned. You must put out a complete game, no matter how small it is, if you wish to survive and be a success. You can always add more features and content later but the first bit at release must work and be complete in itself to make the players happy.
I believe that most developer know this, but budget leaves them not much choice. Spellborn is a complete game, but just barely. Functionality beyond the basic game play is kept very minimal. And there is not much more to do beside questing and fight in the Arena. Crafting has been made an unappealing aspect of the game. There is too little group content. But for the rest it is a great game in the making. I hope it survives. But every marketing decisions they made so far has turned against them. Some of those decisions were too stupid for words and still affect the player population in a negative way. If they continue to shoot themselves in the foot my hope for survival is not high.
Fantastic Review. Hit the Nail Right on the head.
Good review with a fair score for the product.
Very nice review, I agree with almost everything you said in there, but I would like to add one thing having played the game for 2 months.
The combat features is what makes this game interesting...just for a while though...Yes fighting in an mmo is a very important element, it is actually the most important element. And they just got it right with this game.
But does having a good fighting system enough for an MMORPG to be a success? Imo the answer is no, and TCoS does not have anything to offer to the player other than an interesting and engaging fighting system and a good lore.
If you get bored of killing stuff, then there's absolutely nothing else to do. People barely talk int his game if you are not in a guild, the crafting system is so basic that you don't even want to try it out. The auction house interface is so bad that there's no one using it and also because the weapon and armor recipes drop for everyone pretty easily, there's no point in using the auction house. There aren't enough dungeons to run if you feel like running some, there isn't enough PvPing going around because of the fact that classes are extremely unbalanced and there aren't enough people in the game.
I am surprised that you did not get into the fact that there is not much to do in this game other than go fight 20000 raptors in your gameplay paragraph, imo the lack of content and depth is something extremely important in an mmo.
My score personally would be a 6/10
And I commend you on the review, it is a very well written review.
Nice review. It's certainly one I'll try just a question of when. I figure that it might be one thats worth waiting on.
Dated visuals? Aren't they stylized, WoW would have dated visuals, if it weren't for the fact it was so stylized.
Nice review fella. :)
Dated visuals? What computer are you running it on? Granted it is the Unreal 2.5 engine, they did a HELL of a job with the art style and lighting effects to make it look just as appealing as any other modern MMO out there.
This game is pretty. It has its flaws but graphics I would never think to be one of them. Just my two cents.
Nice review mike,
I played TCoS since it's CB stage and agree with alot of your points. Even though I've been playing other games it makes me curious to see how the game would've fared at higher lvls. SInce I only had a handful of characters that I took to the lower F2P cap of 7.9 just to test the game out, your review made me curious enough to want to subscribe. I feel now that maybe I didn't give the game 100% of a chance, but I'm cheap and picky.
~Ink
From the review the UI definatly needs a patch and the netwroking issues are unpardonable. Sort that out and I think its worth a punt.
Yeah, nice review.
I'm subscribed to Acclaim servers and enjoining it a lot... i'm a bit worried about server population but this game is incredible so I hope this problem will be solved soon :(((
Another big problem is the server distribution. For some stupid territorial war against acclaim and Mindscape-Frogster I was redirected to acclaim servers (US servers) and i'm from Spain (all spanish people will be redirected there).
Now i'm level 20 and i just discovered the EU server (Mindscape-Froggster servers) and i can't switch because they are independent servers.
So european community is divided. It sucks :(!
Concerning to the game, Spellborn worth a try. I'm sure you will love it :)!
MikeB thats how you write a review my friend! Kudos, and I hope this is a formula you do not stray from as most reviewers have!
Only problem I had with your review was the less than honest quibble about the look, or graphics. Stellus hit it on the nose, this game looks pretty amazing for as old as it is, and it looks even better than some of the newer games already out! If I said anyhting positive about TCOS it would be the combat and the Graphics for sure!
Personally though, I think with all that Spellborn Int has gone through with this game, and Acclaim picking up the title as P2P, its just not gonna fly. To little to lat imo. This game will survive though if they decide to either lower the monthly fee by half, or spin to a F2P. Right now though, no one wants to pay for a beta, and this is what the game feels like all the way around! Hopefully in time that will change, but till then no one will flock to pay the $15 a month fee, when they could be paying for a number of better designed games for that price. Only thing I see going for the game is the client is free, but thats just not enough imo at this point.
Thanks for the nice review, Mike. I will definitely give this game a try. I am jsut bored as someone else here. Tried Runes of Magic and just ran into series of quests where you have to grind trees for hours. Even though it sounds like TCoS has similar quests and maybe even worse I read that it is also very story driven which attracts me the most in MMOs. Thats why I liked LOTRO and still play it for over 2 years. But need a break, so I am giving a try to TCoS this weekend. Hope my ride will be fun :).
After reading MMORPG.com's re-review of D&D Online I had given up on this website. This review has renewed my faith in MMORPG.com and their ability to put out quality reviews.
I think the Author needs to be given credit here, not mmorpg.com
It does seem like a fair review, I like that fact that he hasnt shyed away or 'salt pettled' the truth about its negative points.
But unfortunatly the content of the review leads me to conclude, as I do with most newly released mmo's, that it needs to mature a bit.
I'll be skipping this for now, there are a few other 'must-play' MMO's coming out in the next 6 months which appear higher up the 'must-play' scale.
Final score is a bit generous in my opinion, about a 6/10 I would think. And yes the game has dated visuals.
Wow's visuals are dated, stylized or not.
If you're referring to Champions, Fallen Earth, Earthrise, or Jumpgate then I think you'll be better off waiting for them to mature as well. They are all going to be quite rough at first.
Also, you could probably make level 50 in Spellborn before even one of them is released.
Good review, fair score for the product, overall a worthwhile read without a doubt ;)
Nice work MikeB.
good review =)
same pros and cons as me.
good review,
tho the cons arent really cons imo
i love pvp, so crafting i couldnt give two shits about lol and its saying the quests are the same thing over and over...isnt that with almost any MMO? go out, kill something, get rewards, rinse & repeat...
other than that, it was good :)
They are actually quite nice as you can see in the screenshots provided. Technically though, they are dated. Unreal, or even Unreal 2, is quite an old engine by todays standards.
Nice review, u took words out of my mouth. Personally i think this is good start, but need tweaking to be a good mmorpg. Fix pvp lag issues, made some more things to do other than questing and crafting. More group friendly things and most of all, make some daily events (more than demon chest). I like this game very much after 1month paying and im gonna pay for other month too (lvl30 so far). Its fun to play what is important thing to me. I never had that feeling "o my, i paid for this mmorpg and now i HAVE to play" with this game. No, so far is have been only good time.
- Oldcshool player, newbie mmorpg player
They are actually quite nice as you can see in the screenshots provided. Technically though, they are dated. Unreal, or even Unreal 2, is quite an old engine by todays standards.
The engine is the Unreal 2.5 engine that they have modified to fit their game. I hope you also realize there are only a handful of games if that which use an engine that is not dated by your standards. Although I agree with the score, I'd suggest fixing this so it doesn't seem like your information is misinformed.
Hit all the issues and bonuses right on and honestly. Though it should def have a rating higher than 7.7 compared to what some of this sites other ratings, sure 7.7 is in tone with the writing but not with the ratings of other games(side effect of different reviewers i guess).
I don't really concern myself with the opinions of others in my ratings. I felt the game ultimately was a 7.7, so that's what it got. :) If I cared about what other reviewers scored games I wouldn't really be doing fair by you all, would I? I imagine you guys don't want us to just be an echo chamber.
Though, just to indulge you, the Metacritic rating for The Chronicles of Spellborn is 76. Well within the realm of what I scored it.
I played a couple of classes up to the f2p cap, but I just felt the game wasn't worth $15/month. If I want to spend time on lame quests where I'm gathering 10 boar meats from boars that have a 1 in 3 chance of having meat on them, there are a few decent f2p mmos out there with the same type of quest grind. The game does have some nice points and if they just had a competitive pricing structure I could see myself playing this a bit.
I love the fluff reviews this site gives . No idea how they came up with such a high score with so many admitted CONS.
I don't really concern myself with the opinions of others in my ratings. I felt the game ultimately was a 7.7, so that's what it got. :) If I cared about what other reviewers scored games I wouldn't really be doing fair by you all, would I? I imagine you guys don't want us to just be an echo chamber.
No, but it would be nice to know what this rating means as compared to other ratings on this site. From what you are saying it means little. Is that a new policy? It might mean that the rating means nothing. A better game might get a lower rating or vice versa. On the other hand, what is better? But still when this site lists games according to its ranking people are led to expect the rating means something for one game relative to other games.
No, but it would be nice to know what this rating means as compared to other ratings on this site. From what you are saying it means little. Is that a new policy? It might mean that the rating means nothing. A better game might get a lower rating or vice versa. On the other hand, what is better? But still when this site lists games according to its ranking people are led to expect the rating means something for one game relative to other games.
Ratings dont matter, even a completely average MMO gets a 7 on this site.
No, but it would be nice to know what this rating means as compared to other ratings on this site. From what you are saying it means little. Is that a new policy? It might mean that the rating means nothing. A better game might get a lower rating or vice versa. On the other hand, what is better? But still when this site lists games according to its ranking people are led to expect the rating means something for one game relative to other games.
Sorry, I misread your post. I thought you were referring to other sites.
I cannot say anything in the review was innacurate ,but the OP perception of each detail is not one i agree with.
The hotbar is one that totally turned me off.It offers nothing more than a inconvenience,because yes you can preset the hotbar to use it exactly the way you would a normal one,so why the fuss to make it more complicated than need be?Then you have to rearrange the whole thing when you get new abilities,lol again waste of time,oh well one opinion versus another,i just look at the facts.
I have no idea where the hitman thing comes into play,if you did not know the Hitman developer/artists,NOBODY would have a clue that they are anything alike,not even the sounds or music.Hitman was a console game designed for tight corridors and small view areas,to keep poly counts down.Even so on the note of music,the FFXi artists utilize orchestras and renowned ones at that,so again a console game beats out TCOS here.
The combat system is nothing unique really it offers some buffs debuffs,nothing special,it could never be compared to FFXI's combat system,but then again all other games take a back seat to FFXI's combat system.The mobs try to avoid taking their back in an unrealistic fashion,they look like automated mobs rather than anything that moves realistically.No rooting is a real step back in combat play,as pretty much every game offers it.
It has been quite awhile since i played TCOS,but i don't remember customization at all,and if it offered anything unique in that area,i would have remembered it for sure.The class selction seemed ho hum as well,nothing trhat screams out play me i am different or better.
I know many people at the time of beta tried to convey how amazing the game looked,i saw it as curvey buildings the same as WOW and all were static as F2P games do it,with NPC's standing out front.
IMO the game is decent but not a 7.7,i would rate it a 6 at best,just because there are a ton of games that do everytrhing the same or better.When you build a game to garner new clients,it has to offer something the other games don't or you will not get anyone to play the game.The ONLY thing this game offers really is the cumbersome hotbar,hardly an idea worth exiting your favourite game to play TCOS.I could give the game a 7.5-8 on graphics,but that would be the ONLY part of the game that garners a score higher than 6.However if i wanted just a better looking game,i would play AOC or Vanguard or several other games that utilize nice shader work.
A very well written, informative and fair review.
However I have to echo what other people have said........dated visuals? How did you reach that conclusion? Slightly cartoony with a touch of Tim Burton to offset potential performance issues does not = dated visuals. On my machine those "dated visuals" outshone anything else currently on the mmo market.
A well written review, tho judging from my ealier beta experiences I feel the verdict is a bit overrated. I would not give Spellborn more than 6/10 myself.
For once, I totally and fundamentally HATE kiting, and games having kiting as possibility, and Spellborn goes far beyond that, it encourages kiting. Actually kiting is the only real combat strategy. Forget your skills, just kite around. Usually that will get you along much more than anything else.
The other thing is, you'll love or hate the graphics. They were totally not my thing, which is of course subjective. As bored as I am, I am certainly going to skip that game.
The game has great combat, a nice story, an interesting enough world, some fresh ideas - altogether, very worth checking out except it has no population whatsoever.
This review came too late. The game is already effectively dead. Unless they try a new marketing blitz, it's hard to believe it will ever have more than a few hundred players.
Its a shame, as i really liked this game. But dead MMO is dead MMO.
Fluff reviews? The guy writes a decent review and rates it appropriately according to how the other games are rated(high scores are the norm in this industry, get used to it) and that is all you can say?
Great review! I might give this game a try. Although, I'll wait a few months for them to work out the bugs.
I didn't mind the graphics so much, technically, they could of been better, but artistically and the style, they were great.
But you nailed the Kiting thing right on. Kind of makes that nifty skilldeck everyone claims is a god-send to combat a mute point. Regardless, tho, the combat system wasn't bad. Ranged attacks are far too common in terms of how much they are used in general throughout your career in killing stuff and really killed the combat system for me.
I just wish the leveling would of been more than delivery and kill quests. And that the XP rates for quests made more sense, the rates for rewards don't match up at all with the risk involved in half of them. Some of the hardest quests in Ringfell gave virtually no experience compared to one where you just run across the bridges on the trees to the other side of the map to deliver something. I wish it would of been less theme park, more opened ended, but I guess that was just the dev's vision.
It's worth trying out, but the lack of subscriptions isn't just because of the advertising. They lost many, many people who subscribed and played from the beta already. There's no lasting appeal past max level, no replay value. But it's worth checking out, if only to play through it once.
Some minor mistakes made by the reviewer corrected:
This storyline eventually sends you to the Mount of Heroes where you participate in a set of instanced challenges called The Vault trials.
The Vault of Trials is located on a separate shard called Atheneum.
By level cap you will have five slots per deck, and five decks total.
The total number of decks at level cap is six.
Other areas, like the Mount of Heroes, simply float within the Deadspell Storm itself, which appears as beautiful vortex of light.
Atheneum, Exarchyon and Rawhead Landing just float in the Deadspell Storm like that. Mount of Heroes does not. But the author probably never got as far as Mount of Heroes. I doubt he even got beyond Quarterstone and the first two trials in the Atheneum, but then that was probably not his job.
The review was informative but in a factual, boring sort of way. I give it a 6.5.
Whoops, sorry about that, I'll have those bits corrected. Got the names confused.
Just out of curiosity, how many reviewers make it even half way to end game content in an initial review? From my experience they are given a deadline to have the review written (often within a few weeks). I don't know where any of those places you list fit in the overall game world as I haven't played it. Overall, you'll be pretty hard pressed to find an initial review out there that covers from starting spot to end game content. Often follow-ups are added or second looks are done to include new data, if anything is done.
I've tried the game, but couldn't last for more than 1 hour. Feels unfinished and to be honest just doesn't feel like an MMORPG. It feels like my friend made it on the weekend and gave me a chance to try it out...
This is a pretty good review. stunning game both in originality and graphics, but not worth paying for
Hmm, LOTRO is stunning with DirectX 10 on max graphics, Sacred 2 is quite stunning on max, Dawn of War 2 I'd say is quite stunning on Ultra High... Spellborn has 'decent' graphics I 'd say. But when you take in account everything else that decency kinda diminishes.
Am I blind, or did the Spellborn forum get deleted? I'm pretty sure there used to be one. I was going to check it out after reading the review....
Edit: Nevermind, I'm blind. The forum is in the "T" section ("THE Chronicles of the Spellborne").
denial is a river in egypt
I would never suggest that popularity = quality, or Britany Spears would be Mozart.
But in this case, the numbers do indeed....... speak for the product.
Just out of curiosity, how many reviewers make it even half way to end game content in an initial review? From my experience they are given a deadline to have the review written (often within a few weeks). I don't know where any of those places you list fit in the overall game world as I haven't played it. Overall, you'll be pretty hard pressed to find an initial review out there that covers from starting spot to end game content. Often follow-ups are added or second looks are done to include new data, if anything is done.
There are many ways to answer this, but let me begin by saying I never expected the reviewer to get to half way the game. That is what I meant by saying that that was not his job.
Next: it is not stated that this was an initial review. Maybe this should have been stated or explained, but I don't think it was meant to be an initial review, like you say.
Now, the reviewer from what I can tell never saw Ringfell Hearth; the place where the game starts to become more challenging. I would have loved to read the reviewers experience with that rather harsh zone that was not really made to be soloed, but still plenty of people do that and can tell a story or two about it. Maybe it would have made the review come a bit more alive. You can go to Ringfell Hearth at level 14, but level 18 is recommended, which is not even close to half way the game.
Last: I do not claim it is a bad review because of it. I do not even say it is a bad review at all.
There are many ways to answer this, but let me begin by saying I never expected the reviewer to get to half way the game. That is what I meant by saying that that was not his job.
Next: it is not stated that this was an initial review. Maybe this should have been stated or explained, but I don't think it was meant to be an initial review, like you say.
Now, the reviewer from what I can tell never saw Ringfell Hearth; the place where the game starts to become more challenging. I would have loved to read the reviewers experience with that rather harsh zone that was not really made to be soloed, but still plenty of people do that and can tell a story or two about it. Maybe it would have made the review come a bit more alive. You can go to Ringfell Hearth at level 14, but level 18 is recommended, which is not even close to half way the game.
Last: I do not claim it is a bad review because of it. I do not even say it is a bad review at all.
If Ringfell was the big foresty place, then yes, I did that as well. I got to level 20-25 if people are curious. :) The cap is 50, so I guess you can say I got pretty close to halfway through the game. I didn't end up in Ringfell (if thats the place I'm thinking of) until probably 18 or 19.
And yes, that place was pretty rough. :)
I also did not solo the game, I played through everything with a friend.
Hope that helps! :)
I am glad that some find this game enjoyable. I didn't.
I really like this game. I think the one part I really enjoy is that the combat isn't boring point-and-click and less passive than most MMOG.
Also, I found the graphics to be really stylish even if they are running on UE2. Same with the music, really nice.
So I find it a real shame that so few people are playing because this game has the potential to appeal to a slightly different type of MMO player too - as it does a few things quite differently.
I would really urge people to try it... nothing to loose :)
This is deffinately a marmite game. Started playing about a week ago, I will be subbing, loving it so far. Good review.
Ive been playing the free client and seriously considering buying this game, for everyone who loves MMO's but is looking for something different then WoW/WAR/EVE/EQII,..... should try this one. Why? 'Cuz u can try it free for as long as u want (until a certain lvl) , the combat system is innovative, well thought, and most of all fun. The somewhat negative aspects are the quite empty servers (hope they will grow soon) the little bit dated graphics altho the design is very ok and the absence of good PVP. But when the game becomes a succes, these problems will no doubt be solved when the time comes. =)
The game is fun and all.. but its frustrating how some of the bugs is not fixed yet... Like i can not play on the first town Hawkmonth cause as soon as it loads up, it dissconnects me, i tried everything i could think of to fix the problem, even downloaded the maps by themselves but still i can not play the game cause of that problem... no one seems to have a solution either.