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A Beta Look at Spellborn
MMORPG.com Managing Editor Jon Wood recently took part in a hands-on experience with the Chronicles of Spellborn beta. Today, he reports back with what he experienced and a few opinions as well.
Last week, I wrote about character customization in The Chronicales of Spellborn. Today, I’m going to give some of my impressions from the rather limited gameplay that I recently experienced.
Overall Look
First, I should say that the game looks great. While it’s not at the forefront of graphics technology, The Chronicles of Spellborn does a great job of capturing you and bringing you into the game world with their art direction. I don’t really know how to describe the general visual style of the game other than to tell you that it reminded me a little bit of a toned down Tim Burton style with its slightly curved buildings and exaggerated characters.
Still, you didn’t click on this article to read me waxing poetic about something that you can see for yourself in a screenshot, you wanted to read a little something about the game mechanics:
Quests
Well, first, it’s important to note that if you’re one of those players who has been complaining that modern MMOs like to hand you everything on a silver platter, then you’re probably going to be impressed with a lot of what Spellborn has to offer:
The first thing that I noticed when I entered the game world and started playing through my first few quests was that there was no tracker at the side of my screen. This has become more or less a staple in the MMOs that I’ve been playing as of late. I’m used to being able to just glance over and see what it is I have to do. Don’t worry though, you’re not operating entirely on memory, you can always activate your journal, which will let you know who it was that asked you to do what.
As long as we’re talking about quests, this is also probably a good time to mention that there are no handy-dandy quest pointers on your mini-map either. There are no small arrows pointing the way to quests like we saw in Age of Conan and there are no big red splotches smeared over your quest locations like you see in Warhammer Online. Instead, you just have a map and whatever directions the NPC you spoke with happened to give you.
Now, while I think that this might have some appeal for hardcore games and those in the aforementioned “I hate having a silver platter crowd”, I have to say that I am a little bit concerned that this may be a deal breaker for some more casually oriented folks who could become frustrated rather quickly.
Finally, before we leave the subject of quests, I wanted to take a second to talk about the way that dialogue is handled in the game. Generally, there are two schools of thought in MMO design about NPC interactions. Either a) you don’t have any real responses at all and just listen to them blathering, or, b) you have a few options in terms of what your character says but in the end, that choice doesn’t really mean anything. In Spellborn, however, players are given dialogue choices and those choices can effect NPC reactions. For example, maybe you choose the rudest responses to an NPC who has information that you need in order to advance or complete a quest. Well, that NPC could simply refuse to help you on the grounds of your rudeness and you’re left having to find an alternate solution.
Combat
As almost everyone who has looked into this game even for a moment can tell you, Spellborn makes use of a rather unique combat system. Not only is the combat twitch-based, but it also makes use of a rather unique spinning UI that gives players access to new tiers of powers (pre-set by the player themselves) with every attack.
I found that jumping into the game took a little bit more practice than it would for your average, run-of-the-mill MMO. The twitch combat wasn’t too bad. You just had to get used to making sure that you were standing where you needed to be standing and swinging when you needed to be swinging. The spinning UI bar on the other hand, takes a bit more getting used to. I think it’s going to be a warm-up period for players. It’s one of those, once you get the hang of it, it’s fine, but you’ll have to spend some time learning.
On that note, I’m a little bit concerned that the game doesn’t really seem to ease you in to its little idiosyncrasies they way that you might like. I may have missed it, or it may not be in the beta version yet, but a solid and detailed tutorial on how to use these systems is going to be needed if the game is going to appeal to “the masses”. Hardcore players, on the other hand, are probably going to enjoy the challenge and the fact that between the learning and the execution, the combat really is a skill-based experience.
PvP
I did have the chance to get involved in a little bit of PvP during my play session and I have to admit, it does have a certain addictive quality to it. There’s just something about twitch-based fighting that really gets your heart pumping when it comes to fighting another player. You’re constantly trying to find the best position to make your attacks, and hoping to take the other player off-guard. It’s head and shoulders above standard numbered attack PvP fighting.
Free Play Zone
During my introduction to the game, I was given the rundown once again on exactly how this particular feature of the game is going to work. Instead of fooling around with free trial accounts and buddy keys, the folks at Acclaim and Spellborn have decided to open up the first 7.9 levels of the game to players, allowing them access to three rather large zones: a city, a forest and a mini-PvP zone.
We have also learned that the free trial area will provide about 20 hours of content for players to evaluate before they part with their hard earned dollars and that you won’t have to provide any of your billing details to get access, you’ll just download, register and play (until you sign up for the paid game, of course).
Overall First Impressions
Overall, I think that TCoS is going to be a solid game that will certainly appeal to the many people who have been asking for a game based more on intelligence, tactics and skill than dice rolls and button-pushing. It has a good look and a good feel with enough customization to engage the “dress up” play style. Numerous times in this preview, I’ve mentioned what I see as barriers to entry for more casual style players, but that isn’t necessarily a bad thing and truth be told that may not even be the market that Spellborn is looking to attract. The developers have taken a great deal of time and care to create a deep game with engaging and meaningful content.
My recommendation? When it launches, give the trial a whirl… why not? It’s free!
Good preview there.
Being an old beta tester I have to admit that most points made are more or less true (positive and negative).
It's possible that some "casual" players will be dissatisfied with the "rough" start (basic inventory, no markers for quests).
I for one would wish that people will give this game a chance, since its true magic is revealed at later levels (eg. there is, currently, nothing in the MMO world like the PVP fights among two characters with full skill decks).
See you there....
So you think everyone should give the game a chance ? despite the bullshit they have pulled over splitting europe and IP Blocking ?
These bright sparks have managed to make it impossible for alot people to give the game chance even if they wanted too ...
If you don't mind I would prefer not to go deep into this discussion.
I am also worried about these decisions. They might have shot their own foot, limiting their potential customer base.
I don't think I can affect those decisions though.
So, my comments refer only to the gameplay of this title and not the business decisions of the developing/distributing companies.
My opinion then: If you have the possibility to play the game, give it a chance....
What do you mean? Why wouldn't I be able to try the game out? What barriers?
this game is bullshit, period. Not trolling, just giving my own impressions after testing, and seriously, i tried to play more but.. i cant. UI is not user friendly since start and then you get lost doin the third quest, maybe its me but i am not giving credits to this game.
I assume its the innovation on the battle system and stuff .. i just cant get used to it and get sick and bored..
Here are some threads for that specific discussion:
Why the fuss about UK IP blocks?
The "stop UK and other EU players having to play apart thread"
(Discussion for this thread is "The Chronicles of Spellborn: A Beta Look at Spellborn".)
I'm so stoked for TCoS. Can't wait to give it a try!
You sound like perfect WOW material, but perhaps this game just won't be for you.
I for one am interested from Jon's preview (wish DF had one) and now will consider giving the gamee a trial for its challenges.
Overall, I think that TCoS is going to be a solid game that will certainly appeal to the many people who have been asking for a game based more on intelligence, tactics and skill than dice rolls and button-pushing
OK.. This is the one line that drives me insane. "Skill" based on button pushing/mouse moving in an RPG. Sorry, but the Ranger/Archer I'm "ROLE PLAYING" probably has a lot more accuracy with the bow he's been usiing the last 20 years than I do sitting behind my monitor here..
The more these games trend to Mortal Kombat like fighting systems, the more they stray from their RPG roots...
It could be a real fun game.. and I'm going to give the trial a shot but I really hate to see the editor of mmoRPG.com giving credence to this whole "skill" concept. This isn't MMOFPS.com after all..
No, dont get me wrong, I quit wow loong ago, before Battlegrounds patch(got to 60 on those days lol), maybe its just im not used to this games since I miss a lot Ultima online pre-AOS and stuff like any other serious person should.. but well.. not worth the try FOR ME..
I was realy looking forward TCOS but the launch will be the death of the game, age old EU guilds cant play together as the game has around half a dozen publishers for different countries, Europe has been split in 2 forcing UK players to play on US servers?!?!? WTF.
Different publishers/servers for different groups of EU countries.. seems the TCOS team put more importance on getting a publisher than satisfying their player base.
Its a twitch game demanding low pings, UK <> US pings will be through the roof.
This has realy annoyed me..... R.I.P TCOS.
You sound like perfect WOW material, but perhaps this game just won't be for you.
I for one am interested from Jon's preview (wish DF had one) and now will consider giving the gamee a trial for its challenges.
this review is pretty spot on imo.
I had a chance at the CB and it was really interesting to say the least. UI is rather odd to get used to, and the fact you can actually move and dodge, is fun and adds to the challenge.
This game does not hold your hand and say x marks the spot, there are factions and houses to join, it is NOT a gear driven game. You have sigil like stones you can place in your equipment (equipment is basically for looks) from what I saw a lower lv with good skill and a well thought out deck can and will smash a higher lv who sucks and doesn't use use their heads and plan well.
another thing they have managed to get rid of from what I saw, was the Holy trinity of tank, healer, DPS.
no squishy casters (casters can melee too) in PVP you cant judge what you are going up against just by looking at them unlike most games (IE: I know thats a caster cause they are wearing a cloth robe) everyone looks different and plays different, as you can adapt your deck to your personal playstyle and strats.
was fun and I hope to see this idea successful and yes it did have its down side was still a bit buggy and all, but hey it WAS a BETA afterall
Kyleran I quoted you as I was going to say with the way they are offering a free time to play, you really have nothing to lose when it comes out ;)
how did you get lost after third quest? :/
I constantly received new quests and never had zero quests in my questlog after starting to play.
Bwahahaha! Because you found the game to be too difficult for you to work out, that makes the game crap? That is priceless.
I agree with your take Jon. I would like to mention that the TCoS team did add in a little green dot (quest givers) and red dot (quest objectives) on the radar when you get close enough to them. Bottom line is that the quest givers give enough info to get you in the area, then it's up to the player to get close enough for the objective to come up on radar.
I'd also like to add that you failed to mention how much this game focuses on quest grinding for "fame." In fact, it nearly requires complete devotion to grinding quests in order to advance in levels as just grinding mobs gives fairly useless amounts of Fame unless you are a class that can AoE animals (Rune mage).
Lastly, to the split regions and IP blocking crowd. I suggest you get up to date on the issue as the reality is now that Acclaim now has: NA, UK, Australia, New Zealand, South America, Italy, Spain, and Eastern Europe. Germany, Switzerland, Austria, France, Scandinavia all seem to be seperate now. Anyhow, the demographics of who can go on what servers is changing.
I say the game is worth a try if players are even remotely interested, they might be surprised and how fun some aspects of the game play.
Id actually say the UI is very good.You have a simple bar in the bottom right corner with everything you need and a basic,clear chat window with tabs for ease of channel swapping.
How the hell did you get lost on the third quest? Isnt that the one where the guy tells you to run south to the farm,which you can almost see from where youre standing anyway!?
I was personally very impressed with spellborn,as its not just another level up and grind armour wow clone. The quests require you to actually read the quest text (a novel approach in the days of games such as war) and use your map and compass to find your way around.
The mobs are pretty tough,you wont be clicking 3 skills and killing them,you have to actually fight.The AI is also very good.
The combat system is great,not just the fps style aiming,but the way combat works..its based around buffing and debuffing to put it simply,and requires tactics and a well chosen skill deck.
Plenty of customisation not only in appearance but in how your character perfromes in general,again a very novel approach in the talent tree fests we see today.
My critisizms would be the usual 'collect 10 antlers' type of quests are in place,and that the charatcer graphics are poor in comparison to the world.
Its a great indie game with a lot of potential,though the bizarre publishing set up may hurt it. Well worth trying out if youre sick of the usual limited wow clones that vomit out at a constant rate.
I love this game. I am lucky to have tested CB and OB. I like that i coukld not figure things out and was not SPOON fed everything I need to know. You have to use you r firggin brain. I like that I can log into maggie the jack cat and get a spoiler (Although some spoilers will pop up). I alos need to learn to be better at touch keyboarding.
THANK GOD THIS IS NOT A WoW CLONE!!!!
I really had a great time almost as much fun as my first mmo. The only game that seems this ambitous is darkfall.
USE your brain and stop being spoon fed quest info and learm to use your keyboard. This is really a great game and will only get better. The people that made this game care about their product. This style will not please everyone but WoW does not please everyone.
I do wish that the EU players will be able to play on servers that their friends are on. This does stink but as I lack information as to why this is happening (real behind the scenes truth) You will be able to play and .... OMG make new friends!!!! yes you should not get divided from other EU countries but that should not stop your enjoyment. I am in N.A. and will be lucky to play by January.
I will be soooo happy to give my money to TCoS. I already think this is a winner. Sad that many won't see this as there previous or first mmo will not allow then to think uotside the box. No game will be perfect for all players but this definitely make strides where others have only mimmiced the FoTM mmo.
Give it a try it will be F2P till lvl 7? and do not expect to be spoon fed, expect to have to actually use your keyboard and brain. I am pleased at what is yet to come.
I applied in 2005 with a kick-ass application that has gotten me into every other beta I've applied for.
I've kinda given up on TCoS :(
Bwahahaha! Because you found the game to be too difficult for you to work out, that makes the game crap? That is priceless.
Absolute perfect example of i need something to point the way for me. I do think he/she should go play one of the new So called games that has Bot programs in it, Click and go watch TV or ALT +TAB to the next bot or nearest fridge.
The combat system is the worst I have ever tried. For many quests I had to run around more than for an old school adventure. The skill wheel is a serious limitiation, not a great addition. The grafics have been nice, the story too, but everything else is a no-go. The is really nothing to hook you in this game.
daeandor wrote.
"Lastly, to the split regions and IP blocking crowd. I suggest you get up to date on the issue as the reality is now that Acclaim now has: NA, UK, Australia, New Zealand, South America, Italy, Spain, and Eastern Europe. Germany, Switzerland, Austria, France, Scandinavia all seem to be seperate now. Anyhow, the demographics of who can go on what servers is changing."
And your point is?
Just to add you forgot some countries,Benelux countries are also with Germany,Switzerland,Austria,France and Scandinavia so they have still split up the EU player base so I have no idea why your post would make anyone feel better about this.
I agree.
It's such a shame that these most stupid bussiness decisions ever have been made.
So many EU people are already upset and fed up by this, that they seriously have shot themselves in the foot by this!
Never ever I have seen such idiotic and stupid bussiness decisions being made and it will be downfall for Spellborn and the game hasn't even been released yet.
----------
As for the spoonfed thing. This isn't something new.
Sure WoW, EQ1, EQ2, LOTRO have quest trackers. Still you have to search for the quest locations yourself and thus actually read the quest description, just like with TCOS (unless you install map location mods or internet sites).
It were games like CoX, Tabula Rasa, Age of Conan and Warhammer Online that turned MMO gaming into lazy spoonfed gaming.
Cheers
I want to check that combat system it sounds interesting, and of course I'll give the demo a whirl
. oh good preview.
Something I am definitely going to pass. It just looks way to weird and odd to me. *shrug*
Um, my point is that the demographics are changing, it's the last sentence of the paragraph. Do I need to spell out what that means? It means that there could be other changes too. And we don't know if the blocks are actually happening yet since the CB and OB didn't have IP blocking. It's all speculation at this point. My post wasn't to "make people feel better," merely to say that previous posts were crying about UK not having any EU players to play with when that is clearly false. Oh, and I'm sorry I forgot the Benelux, I thought I had typed it in.
We should have more information today as the Frogster release appears to be going off as originally scheduled.
You dont have to spell anything out for me sunshine but maybe try reading the official forums.......
As I have explained in the other thread: http://www.tcos.com/sbforum/viewtopic.php?p=233188#233188 people from the countries under Frogster/Mindscape will be not eligible (aka IP banned) from playing on Acclaim servers and Frogster/Mindscape will IP ban people from Acclaim territories.
Also, since we have a couple of thread on the matter as it is and this one moves towards personal bickering, here comes the lock.
_________________
Banshee
English Community Manager
The Chronicles of Spellborn
This is the way it will be so again,whats your point?
What?
In that link, Banshee basically says he/she does not know how they will "block" other than through account registration. But that is besides the point. Can you not freaking read???
My points easily laid out for the freaking retarded!!!!
The game release is dynamic. With every day the information about release changes. The distribution of TCoS is a goat screw. The statements made previously in the thread are now FALSE. Nobody, not even Banshee and Mirage, know how this release is going to happen with any certainty anymore.
So, my recommendation to the Euros who have their panties in a bunch over this release: wait until after release and see for yourself.
And finally, you were an active member of TCoS forum who is stating he will not play. So why are you trolling me with vague questions about nothing and derailing a perfectly good thread?
Yep, I think it's definitely worth a look. Seems like they're trying to be a bit different, so good on them.
1st off try this link..I didnt give you a link in the previous post that was a quote from Banshee.
http://tcos.com/sbforum/viewtopic.php?t=15296&start=45
Banshee as I quoted clearly states there will be IP blocking.
2nd yes I AM STILL a member of the TCoS forums and have posted alot of info about the game so I continue to post on this forum as well as others about the launch,I dont see that as trolling simplying finishing what I started.
3rd I came on this thread as you are giving out wrong information about the launch it is clear,cut and dry about the IP blocking but you keep telling people it isnt.
Like I said read what I quoted from Banshee, there WILL be IP blocking.
I've been following this game since mid summer and I've got to say that I've lost all interest in this game. At first it looked and seemed like a really cool idea. They owned the IP, the lore, etc. The gigantic schism from the industry standard with respect the class trinity (melee, arcanes, ranged). it all seemed pretty darn interesting. However, their PR/Advetisign is terrible. Were it not because I sub to MMORPG rss feed, I would've never know this game even existed. Their forums are pretty much dead; you see lots of posts but are from the same couple dozen people since last year. Then there's the combat system. Sure it's potentially uber cool; however, they should've learned from Tabula Rasa that reaction/twitch-based combat just does NOT mix well with MMOs at all. Disconn, network latency, client latency, etc. It will get a lot of people frustrated VERY fast. Skills will have little to do with it. It all will boil down to who's closer to the servers with the least numbers of hops and who has the quickest reflexes. It does nothing for strategy either. The fact that you can have a random long ping for couple hundred packets and you'll be pwned, should be deterrent enough for most people including what you call "hard-core gamers."
Then there's the biz decisions ... pretty terrible. Knowing they *won't* have a big player base, instead of consolidating them, they're splitting them. Way to go Spellborn NV!
I don't think I'll even waste my time downloading it and trying it out. There are just too many options in the MMO world nowadays to put up with subpar ideocyncracies.
Peace.
I waited for about 3 years to get the opportunity to play this game and as some before me have stated TCoS have shot themselves in the foot. If they are focusing on elitist players with their quirky combat system and vague quest descriptions they will get just what they are aiming for; a very limited fan base. If they are hoping to survive, they should have designed a game based on something more familiar and readily player friendly.
I spent the first hour or so in the game with a 'guide' who did his best to lead me but failed miserably. The very first quest left me with some fuzzy instructions to go somewhere in a northerly direction and do some training. (Prior to getting some assistance I had already wasted another 3/4 of an hour just wandering around in some maze of streets trying to find a path that led north.) When I got to the training area even with help I was unable to get the quest to work.
When I voiced my concerns to the 'guide' he told me to give the game a chance! After spending more than an hour getting nowhere, I fealt I had given it more than a fair chance.
My recommendation to potential players is instead of giving it a chance; give it a pass.
Im quite amazed that you got lost on your first quest. "head through the north gate to the training guy"..press M for map,look at the 2 gates on the picture and pick the north one..thats difficult?! Hows that elitist?
Go back and read Banshee's posts on the subject. I am not telling false information at all. Banshee says clearly "Generally at the moment IP is checked when creating an account (with automatic redirection if IP is not valid). I cannot tell you at the moment how exactly that will work with in-game IP blocks, but likely they will be some measures in place as well." I want you to quote where I said there would NOT be IP blocks... I said we don't know yet how or where the blocks will be. We only know what they plan to block.
Man you really want to pull this out dont you?
You said-
"Um, my point is that the demographics are changing, it's the last sentence of the paragraph. Do I need to spell out what that means? It means that there could be other changes too. And we don't know if the blocks are actually happening yet since the CB and OB didn't have IP blocking. It's all speculation at this point."
Read Banshee's coments and I quote(1 last time)
"people from the countries under Frogster/Mindscape will be not eligible (aka IP banned) from playing on Acclaim servers and Frogster/Mindscape will IP ban people from Acclaim territories."
Now if you cant understand that I cant help you,I wont answer you again as I am sick off it and I wont make myself a troll on your behalf.
<deleted too save myself a ban>
I love th attitude of people who are so called hardcore TCOS fans. This forum for some reason reminds me of the earlier Saga Of Ryzom forums. Same elitiest attitude. This game is not for you and 'only for niche market' and other blah blah. Ryzom died twice and still no guarantee it will survive third time.
Why do i feel this community will drive a lot of player base away and than kill this game?
This sounds like a very reasonable prediction. One wonders why the developers of this game couldn't see it.
It's a good thing they're offered a free trial/free start whatever. Given the descriptions I've seen I wouldn't bother even looking at this game. will try the free trial just to see what's it's like, but if the MMORPG.COM review is accurate, I doubt I'll be playing it.
I agree, it's worth trying out.
I like, and look forward to, all the game concepts that the reviewer detailed. Everything about this game screams original, smart and engaging. I can't freeking wait to try it.
I couldn't disagree more with this review.
I beta tested the game. My character name was Jorev. As a player looking for a game with intelligence, tactics, and skill, I can safely say that Spellborn fails.
So called Quests
The reviewer is completely wrong about quests being more involved and "hardcore". There are no real quests in Spellborn. A quest by definition is supposed to require exploration and problemsolving, something that is not required in 99% of the tasks in Spellborn.
The fed ex tasks consist of delivering messages and items, collecting x amount of an item, killing x type of foe, visiting x area, etc. Every questgiver and contact within the task chain has stupid unrealistic icons floating over their heads to easily identify them. Not only does this treat the gamer as too stupid to explore on their own and too lazy to interact with NPCs, it kills immersion of a real virtual world. A real quest system like classic Everquest did not identify questgivers with icons or glows.
The reviewer seemed to praise the fact there were no arrows pointing where to go on the minimap, suggesting all you had was a direction. This is very misleading. In most of the tasks, as you near the area you need to go to, there are dots on the minimap showing exactly where to go for the next contact person or item, and the mimap range is quite large. Again this kills exploration and immersion, because realistically that information should not exist ahead of time. A real quest system like classic Everquest had no minimap and only a sense heading skill to aid your true exploration.
The reviewer praises the alternate NPC response system available in most of the tasks based on a predetermined static response by the player, but correctly concedes it likely does not alter the given task and results, only perhaps omitting a possible clue. The reality is that you can skip all the pages of text that a NPC presents, because the last page copies into a task book and gives you enough information to complete the task. A real quest system like classic Everquest operated on a key word response system in order to generate information from NPCs. Sometimes what the NPCs said was fluff, sometimes lore, sometimes they would offer a quest or clues to another quest. The classic Everquest system compelled players to read and think about every NPC response because you never knew which NPC had quests to offer and where your next clue would come from. This information did not copy into a quest log. You had to remember it and decide if it had meaning and wether it should be pursued.
The task system in Spellborn is how you earn most of your experience aka fame. You earn very little fame from hunting mobs. This task system is another held by the hand, pulled by the nose, linear path which threads it's way from one zone to the next, just like WoW and it's clones which currently dominate the market unfortunately. VERY BORING.
Classic Everquest had the best quest system hands down and no one to date has copied it or improved on it, rather WoW and it's many clones have diminished open world questing to linear fed ex tasking. Sadly classic Everquest died long ago and the current bastardized version is just as lame as Spellborn. The motto of Spellborn is "What lies hidden must be found", but apparently hardly anything is hidden, rather made deliberately obvious.
Combat
This is the bright spot about Spellborn. By utilizing a directional crosshair combat system, Spellborn has added movement and targeting to combat, which enhances fighting, so skill and tactics actually matter. Why they then decided to limit one's choices of usable skills during combat to a tiered rotating interface is mindblowing. If I possess knowledge of 30 skills, I should have the freedom to use any one of them as long as the skill is available and not cooling down aka recycling. Apparently Spellborn felt players would be overwhelmed and are too stupid to pick from all known skills so they created a nifty interface to guide players while limiting their choices. Overall the combat is good, but fighting is not the focus of Spellborn, performing endless boring tasks is the focus.
PvP
During beta, PvP consisted of essentially random duels and the occassional griefing of players trying to run tasks in a PvP zone. It gets old fast. Without risk vs reward, PvP is meaningless. There is no significant death penalty in Spellborn, just a minor loss of small stat gains known as PeP, that you would have received previously from not dying. There is no looting of players, no titles awarded, no land conquered via RvR, so PvP in Spellborn fails.
During the course of the game, players are invited to join one of the 5 introductory NPC guild houses, and Spellborn staff have eluded to future PvP enhancements of the game to include RvR between these houses and their player members. This would be a great addition to give PvP a purpose, but to what end?
Since armor and weapons have no stats in Spellborn, there are no real items to be rewarded with, except Sigils which are minor stat additons. Since there is no real crafting in Spellborn, only a NPC that creates fluff items for looks or adds Sigils, there are no lands to be contested for harvested materials or mobs which drop items. So what will be the motivation for RvR PvP between the high houses? It is unknown at this time because it does not currently exist in the game and I for one have learned from past games not to place emphasis on promises of future content. Certainly promises of future content should not be relied upon for choosing or staying with a game.
I was an early beta tester on this... I will not be trying it out...
They originally had me hooked on their beautiful stories and puzzle games they had early on and I'm thinking IF they make the game like this, it will be wonderful... Talk about unmanaged expectations...
I can't fight in this system, I don't have the 'skills' for it and beyond that, if I wanted to play a FPS, I'd go play Halo or UT2K4 or something...
Again, what is this fascination with MMOFPSes lately?
It is so amazing to read people's posts in this thread complaining how the combat system is FPS when this genre is RPG, and how they should have learned from Tabula Rasa and known twitch base gaming doesnt belong in MMO's.
All of the people who think this way are clearly retarded and want every game that comes out from here on out to be WoW clones. In my opinion this game is being very very innovative but clearly to others they live for more of the same over and over again.
I really think it all boils down to the fact that 50% or more of the people that play MMO's do not possess actually video game skills I.e Aiming ability via mouse, Manuverability, quick thinking and so on. So when they read about a combat system based on player skill they get all scared and use the excuse "Sounds too weird to me, gonna pass on this one" like at least 5 people already have in this thread.
Lastly, to all the people complaining about getting stuck on Quests 1-3... or even quests 4, 5, 6, 7 you get my point... all I have to say is wow. You might wanna hire a tutor at your local Sylvan learning center because you must have an IQ of around 75. I think IQ should be added to the minimum and recommended requirements on all pc games... then all these retarded couldn't blame the game for their own stupidity.
I myself am looking forward to playing this game, I reached fame level 7 during the EU open beta and It was a lot of fun.
sorry, but you are wrong, I don't want a WoW clone as I think WoW sucks, but in a RPG genre, you shouldn't be using a system which rewards PLAYER ability to the extent that a FPS style of combat does. Nowhere should the players ability make THAT much difference (some, sure but their reflexes shouldn't be that important to something critical like AIMING.) Not all of us are as 'quick' as other or are on as fast a connection as others, that is the nice thing about a RPG, you get to pretend you are something else for awhile, something stronger, faster, etc for a short bit, if the limitiations of ones life begin to impede on the world, then you will lose a large section of your possible subscriber base. You may not like that, but it is true.
Personally, I liked Shadowbane, which was nothing like WoW. While it took SOME player skill, it was still the abilities of the character (not the player) to hit that were more important. FPS style of play is not a RPG, sorry but it isn't. That is my complaint about TCoS. They have some beautiful ideas (dress to impress, quests that a bit more fuzzy, etc) but the combat system is not one of them, IMO. I'm just not going to enjoy a game where my slow reflexes are going to lessen the fun factor of a game. Has nothing to do with intelligence, but rather understanding one's limitations and understanding that ones recreational time is important and how to get the most out of it.
Personally, I hope people do enjoy the game because everyone needs to have some way to enjoy their recreational time, but don't expect me to and to insult me because I don't see gaming the same way as you do, is in poor taste and highly out of line.
I am sorry, but where is this book of rules which says an MMORPG has to use a combat system for old people who apparently can't play video games? Incase you didn't know, but this is a video game, not one of your D&D roleplaying sessions which it is obvious you have been to. Also incase you didn't notice, but if you step outside of RPG's most video games require the player to have skill. Like I said above there is no rule that says if a game has RPG in its title it cannot mesh together other games from other genres.
Its quite laughable that you say that "Nowhere should the players ability make THAT much difference (some, sure but their reflexes shouldn't be that important to something critical like AIMING.)"
Again crawl out from your D&D book and look at the real world. Sports are a perfect example... its all about competition and individual skill. The only difference between real life sports and video games is that video games can be played in your underwear.
I dont understand how or why you think this game is for you, you state over and over how your apparently "slow".... who's fault is that. Either play more actual video games and build your skill up or stay away from TCOS unless you can live with being a mediocre player at best.
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But in the end, it doesn't matter as I'm done with this discussion. You and I have different opinions about games and their purpose and those opinions aren't going to be changes through our banter, and will probably serve more to getting us into trouble than us agreeing.
As I also said above, I hope that TCoS is a success. People need a game they find enjoyable (even if it isnt' for everyone) if they choose to spend their time in games. If this is true for you, then I do hope that you have a long, enjoyable time in the game.
But beyond that, perhaps it will break others out of the proverbial WoW box too.
A game that uses FPS elements can be great fun. It's not an RPG though. As I said previously, the Ranger/Archer character that I am ROLEPLAYING has a lot more skill with the bow he's been using for 20 years of his life, than I do. I couldn't shoot a moving target with a bow if my life depended on it. I'd hope that heroic character I'm ROLEplaying would be much better at it though...
A game that uses FPS elements can be great fun. It's not an RPG though. As I said previously, the Ranger/Archer character that I am ROLEPLAYING has a lot more skill with the bow he's been using for 20 years of his life, than I do. I couldn't shoot a moving target with a bow if my life depended on it. I'd hope that heroic character I'm ROLEplaying would be much better at it though...
Im not sure if mommy didn't tell you, but Santa Clause isn't real and neither is your level 20 Ranger/Archer. Again if you wanna roleplay do it in your mothers basement, cause If you come across me in Spellborn I'll send you home crying as you shout "lightining bolt" "lightining bolt" and nothing happens.
OK.. I'm not going to argue with someone who is obviously a kid and who's main point seems to be that Roleplaying is stupid and has no place in an MMORPG...
How do you argue with someone like that?
PS- If you're going to mock a person do yourself a favor and learn how to spell the word before you use it TWICE.
Hmm, It's a great shame that they went this route with the Quests.
I think it's a step backward in usability and user interface, as I do not enjoy wandering aimlessly looking for NPCs to return quests to, or for quest locations. Especially not when I return to a game after a week or two and have to try to remember everything.
Just as with games before it, all this is going to foster is people building websites with all the quest locations on it. Players will be forced to Alt - Tab out of the game to read these sites to find out where things are.
That's what will happen.
Instead, what they should have done is make these things optional, so a player that does not want to have these quest targets activated can turn it off, and the player that does want them on can leave them on. Everyone gets to play the game the way they want to without bothering anyone else.
It really is a shame, that for a game that seems to be trying to innovate they took such a backward step in usability.
A cat has very fast reflexes but a very small brain, and ultimately it is our brains and intelligence that set us apart in the animal kingdom and establish our supremacy over the planet.
Games that rely on reflexes are more for people who have attention deficit disorder. A game that requires tactics and strategy is deeper and ultimately more rewarding. Atleast for me.
There seems to be strategy involved in building your skill deck and in using this deck to define your character's role.
You can develop different decks for different situations, hence the Skill, strategy and thought inherent in the combat system.
But yes, it is not a click and forget combat system, apparently, and while many will welcome the more active style of combat some will not.
Yep you are right the skilldeck does take some skill to set out,I wrote a short beta review...
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/212497
In pve you will use the movements to dodge attacks but in pvp it did come down to the players just running in circle's most of the time and not really skillful.
Also once you have your skilldeck as you like it you wont be changing it that often,maybe at lvl 50 once you get alot more skills but again once you settle on a skilldeck I dont see you changing it that often,unless maybe if you are a maybe say a void seer and want to go healing for a certain encounter but that isnt what this game is about,maybe from time to time you will change a spell here and there but for the most part you will settle on a skilldeck.
There seems to be strategy involved in building your skill deck and in using this deck to define your character's role.
You can develop different decks for different situations, hence the Skill, strategy and thought inherent in the combat system.
But yes, it is not a click and forget combat system, apparently, and while many will welcome the more active style of combat some will not.
Yes, it looks to be a blend of both, which is what intrigues me about this game. And the graphics too. I will definitely try this game out when we get a NA launch :)
OK.. I'm not going to argue with someone who is obviously a kid and who's main point seems to be that Roleplaying is stupid and has no place in an MMORPG...
How do you argue with someone like that?
PS- If you're going to mock a person do yourself a favor and learn how to spell the word before you use it TWICE.
Against my better judgement, I'll take a stab at this.
Brone87, I believe you are misunderstanding his use of 'roleplay'. He isn't just talking about using roleplay-esque speech in chat, he isn't necessarily 'pretending' to actually be a mythical hero. He means roleplay in a much broader sense.
In an mmorpg, you play a role, wether you like it or not.
A ranger has weapons suitable to a ranger's 'role'.
A ranger has spell, skills and abilities suitable to the 'role' of a ranger.
A ranger has armor that has stats suitable for enhancing the ranger's 'role'.
A ranger's armor looks like what you would expect from the ranger's 'role'.
You follow quests suitable for the 'role' of a ranger.
Replace ranger with any other roleplaying class. Mages, warriors, priests, etc.
You can use l337 speak all you want in the chat box, no matter how hard you try your toon will still be fullfilling a specific fantasy 'role'.
So, that being said, maybe the discussion should be, should we call all games where you have a massive number of multiple players online 'mmorpgs'? Probably not. His only real point is that the twitch system makes this more of a mmog in a fantasy setting, rather than fullfilling a true fantasy role. Because as he said, if you are playing the role of a ranger, you shouldn't be dependent upon the skills of a lazy suburbanite pressing buttons. No matter how good you are at pressing buttons, it doesn't make you a mythical hero.
And just for your edification; don't fool yourself into thinking that an mmo gamer is any less nerdy than a DnD player in their parents basement. Playing a mmorpg is the same damn thing without actual human contact. Better think twice about trying to win the girl by saying 'I am a hardcore mmorpg player'.
@Brone: Completely out of place. Completely immature response.
Pen-and-Paper D&D (and to an extent even Warhammer) are so completely different than their online version that I could not begin to tell you how ignorant you sound. The former you actually require heavy planning of your toons and the MOST important part of the planning consists on figuring out what ROLE you want your PC to be. There are consequences to each choice you make and sometimes if you're not careful enough you end up with a gimp. And in the case of D&D, for the most part, death of a PC is permanent (regardless of level, riches, skills, etc)-- why don't you try that in a MMORPG ... let's see how 1337 you really are.
Now I get it.... it's ok that pinheads coo about their preschool MMO's thread after thread. However pointing out TCOS won't be hand holding is somehow Elitist?!?
There are plenty who still play those other MMO's despite vulgar language and chuck Noris type nonsense. I'd bet those who'd be driven away by Elitists wouldn't last more than a month in TCOS anyway.
In the end, the TCOS financial and executive groups decided what 'X number of players' is required to make the game viable as a profitable source of income. If they think they can do it with 100K, thats the number they have to reach. After that number was decided, they (hopefully) made the right decisions in the design of the game aspects to hold that number or greater. If they have enough subs to cover their expenses and pay salaries, it's a success.
A game doesn't have to be a 'WoW killer' to succeed, something a lot of folks seem to not realize. Personally, i didn't care for the game in CB. I'll give it another go when there is a NA release but I don't think it will end up as something I can play long term. I do hope for the sake of the genre/industry that is viable and makes a good go of it.
Digna,
I'd be surprised if the manage to hold more than 10K subs. The MMO market has changed SO darned much since three years ago (when Spellborn was created) that whatever numbers or projections they made back then are completely meaningless today. The MMO market is very cutthroat nowadays. There's no 3-strikes-you're-out anymore. Now you swing and miss, and you're toast. Retention rates are pretty terrible (with the exception of WoW ... why ... who knows that game blows IMO). Look at AoC one of the most touted MMOs to date ... their subscription numbers halved in less than two months (who knows how low they are right now) ... WAR (I wonder how many of the original 700K subs they still have). There are just too many choices out there.
The *only* people who still defend defend this game tooth-and-nail are those who have been involved with the game in one way or another since the outset and now realize that all the time they spent helping shape the game might go up in smoke. Dare you say anything slightly negative about the game in their forums and you'll get decimated by these folks.
Peace.
i don't understand... don't you want to PLAY your character not just watch what your character does... w/e go play EQ and WoW please don't ruin games that stray from their guidelines by carebearing (though yeah the only thing different about this game is its combat system... but its RADICALLY different)
i don't understand... don't you want to PLAY your character not just watch what your character does... w/e go play EQ and WoW please don't ruin games that stray from their guidelines by carebearing (though yeah the only thing different about this game is its combat system... but its RADICALLY different)
No problem at all with twitch based games... but they are NOT MMORPGs and it's misleading to say that they are. Rather.. they are story driven MMOFPS.
No problem at all with twitch based games... but they are NOT MMORPGs and it's misleading to say that they are. Rather.. they are story driven MMOFPS.
i think the correct way to say it will probably be mmorps (roleplaying shooter)... but then again you don't always shoot, as sometimes you're wielding a sword. If what you were saying is ture, then oblivion would also be a fps, as would Mount and Blade... so i still think TCOS/Darkfall/MO are mmorpgs.
I mean there's still roleplaying and stuff, you're saying b/c you're char is so old, he should already be able to shoot a bow like a pro right? Well that will be partly true, i mean did you ever try to shoot a bow? I can barely keep the arrow on the string, these guys can keep the arrows on the string like pros :P. In group fights I mean, everyone still plays different roles, and there's a story, you're advocating that the combat system is what makes or breaks a whether or not a game is an "mmorpg"...
Ugh anyway I learned this game is paytoplay... so no way I'm going to play this IF darkfall is out because this game is yet another themepark (though with cool combat). If darkfall is delayed/fails I'll probably play this, or maybe just wait for MO, depends on how much I like this game after trying it.
I completely disagree with you and your assessment. I see no reason why a more visceral combat style can't be used. So waht if you are role playing. That has to do more with a role and perhaps even self made stories.
But it is very acceptable to my way of thinking that a role playing game can rely upon twitch based fighting.
Perhaps you need to bone up on your improvisational skills?
Quite frankly it sounds to me that you are stuck on definitions and names and labels. Sorry but it just seems a bit rigid to me.
Indeed. After playing these games for what seems forever...I'm all about having some faster paced combat that is more than "press auto-attack, spam specials".
CoS is a glimmer of hope for the MMO genre as a whole.
Companies that keep spliting the world player database based on the players IP dont deserve any attention and players should not play their games.
TCOS is another exmaple of market spliting. Europe vs US etc.
Adding to that has very outdated graphics.. another fail in the horizon i guess.
You can almost see the internet muscles. I won't be playing this game for fear of running into this guy in-game. I would hate to get uber pwned by his mad skillz, since I am nub and all.
Agree... and I, for one, am really looking forward to giving the game a spin. I had pretty much given up hope of it ever coming out. And hearing that they're going to have a free play area is great news. My daughter loves to 'try' MMORPG's out but rarely sticks with them beyond level 5 (which winds up wasting me lots of money). I love the idea of a free play area she can go play in without having to fork over money for it. If she winds up liking the game and sticking with it then I can spend money on it for her. MUCH better system.
Also, having played DDO I found I REALLY loved the 'twitchy' feel that combat had in it. Glad to see another MMO is taking that route. I also like what I am hearing about the quest system. I love that the dialog actually matters as well! Might keep people from just blowing through the *reading* and just hitting the response buttons ;)
Here is the big problem i have with SPELLBORN.It sounds like it is done the way i like a game to be done,no hand holding and some skill involved.Ok they got that part right.
Here is the problem >>>PVP.We the players or at least some of us do NOT want to be in a PVP mode 100% of the time.There is times when i just want to be left alone doing something else,maybe even just standing there chatting to another player.Sometimes i get real tired and just want to walk away from the PC for 5 minutes and grab a drink ,without logging out,sometimes there is a guild chat discussion going on,who knows ,but there is lots of times in a game,when i don't want anything to do with PVP and i want that choice.
I do not know a lot about this game on th sole premise it is PVP based and i don't usually show interest in PVP base MMO'RPG's.This game will work ONLY if PVP is not forced at all times.Like maybe you are passing through hostile territory or in a zone that is hotly contested for its minerals,what ever,just so long as you don't have to look over your shoulder every 2 seconds.I like the game to be twitched based,i don't want my neck to become twitch based from looking over my shoulder ..lol.
Wizardry, I'd suggest you play on a pve server then. Hey, novel idea that one! From my limited understanding of them (I don't want to play on one) there will be pvp areas that are entirely avoidable if you don't want it. No need to get all bent about "pvp mode 100%" captain sir, just play on the other type of server.
Also, I'd suggest not putting your monitor behind your head, to prevent neck issues like you mentioned.
I am turned watching TV a lot ,not always focused on the game at hand.However i did not know they have PVE servers,that is a good thing i think.It would be interesting to see twitch based combat vs NPC's.I hope there are several skills involved because just point and click ,like Unreal Tournament twitch based is too easy and boring unless your playing a real person or an aimbot,then it is impossible....VERY HARD to pull off a good NPC AI,actually i would say near impossible.Still it would be interesting to see how these guys do it.
i gather spellborn offers a starter area trial from the word go . shame warhammer did nt do that . i m not over keen if i cant play with friends si ve made in other european mmos . but on the plus side if the british are with the americans it gives me a chance to make some american friends if i decide to play .... then again i ve only read the rumors in these forums so i could be totally wrong about what i ve heard . like any mmo i wish it well . most of them have something hald decent to offer for at least a few months .
like most people i dont expect another warcraft in terms of popularity . for me mmos have become as much about the community as the game . wow really proberbly does nt have the best community broadly speaking , i m lucky because with my two characters there i m in two different family run guilds and thier real life friends that form the core membership . so when i return its like playing with old mates . i think spellborn would be very wise to drop the ip blocking on some european countrys because a lot of us have formed friendships with dutch norweigen and sweedish people in other mmos . it should be down to the individual where they want to play .
Tim Burton style! I knew that the visual style reminded me of something but I couldn't put my finger on it, and the writter pointed it out.
IP Blocking? Splitting Europe in 2? WTF?
Screw Spellborn !
i don't think it's a wise idea but i don't think SIL (the developer) had the resources distribute it with out the publishers
acclaim bought the rights ... so i guess they paid the most money for NA AND UK and other countries for the biggest chunk of market and revenue
in my opinioned this game is worth the divide i've played beta for europe and realy enjoyed it and it's so close to cb now for uk and Na im sure you'll be seeing alot more about this game....