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Chronicles of Spellborn Arena and PvP Q&A
Recently, Managing Editor Jon Wood had the opportunity to sit down and ask a few questions of the folks over at Spellborn International, the Netherlands based company that's making The Chronicles of Spellborn. Community Manager Pierre-Yves *Mirage* Deslandes took the time to provide the answers.
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MMORPG.com:
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Well, I suppose we should probably start at the beginning. Will The Chronicles of Spellborn have PvP, and what kind of system do you plan on using (ie: arena only, open PvP, zone PvP, consentual, duels, etc.) |
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Pierre-Yves *Mirage* Deslandes :
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Yes, The Chronicles of Spellborn will feature PvP for it plays an important role in the game. Although all the landmass is not “PvP-flagged” there are many “world-PvP” zones scattered around the Shards of the Enclave. These zones are the large and complex underground caves and mines network (known for being the places where ore and different ingredients needed for the players’ crafting needs can be gathered) as well as the outdoor Green District, like mentioned in the MMORPG.com video preview from GC. In addition to these mines there are also numerous fighting pits in the open-air, for the claustrophobic readers. These PvP zones are accessible throughout the leveling of the characters without any restrictions. As far as the end-level PvP is concerned the main feature is the Arena, located in the Quarterstone Shard. Providing you leveled your way up to 40 and talk to Arena Master NPCs, you’ll be granted access to this end-game feature. |
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MMORPG.com:
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Correct me if I’m mistaking, but TCoS employs a kind of “twitch” combat system that’s more than just mashing skill and attack buttons. Can you give us a very brief explanation of your combat system? |
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Pierre-Yves *Mirage* Deslandes:
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To make it simple, I’m going to use the main and unique aspects of combat in TCoS. The first one would be the Skill Deck system. Before battle, players need to configure their Skill Deck (action bar which is 6 tiered and 5 slotted) with Skills they learn during their leveling. Being 6 tiered, the Deck rotates to another tier each time one of the 5 skills on a tier is executed by the players. The other unique feature of combat in Spellborn is the Targeting System. Since there is absolutely no auto lock on targets, players have to manually aim at the enemies with a reticule displayed when entering combat. This creates a very fast paced and very challenging combat system. |
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MMORPG.com:
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Does this mean that player skill as opposed to level will determine the outcome of a PvP combat? |
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Pierre-Yves *Mirage* Deslandes:
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Of course level matters, since a higher level player will have more hitpoints and higher damage, so it will be a very intense fight. Yet, a very important part of the combat lies in the fact that there are absolutely no dice rolls or random statistics where the enemy would dodge, resist, evade or crit. If you aim at the enemy and are in range, you hit, always; if you have good movement control over your toon, you can manually evade attacks from opponents. We designed the entire combat system with the following idea in mind: no “unfair” mechanics, no reduced hit chances or damage modifiers. Players’ skills in aiming, movement control and Skill Deck setup prime and shine in TCoS combat system. |
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MMORPG.com:
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Will players be able to engage in group or guild PvP? |
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Pierre-Yves *Mirage* Deslandes:
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It will be possible for groups and guild-groups to engage in PvP fights, where said groups can win great rewards providing they enlisted in ranked tournaments. Groups’ size will be probably limited to one individual for release, but expanding it to 8 is one of the features that might be squeezed in before launch. Players will be able to compete on a ladder as well as seasonal (guild-) tournaments eventually. |
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MMORPG.com:
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When we saw you at the Games Convention in Leipzig, we saw some of your arena. Can you please let our readers know what makes your arenas stand out from the crowd? |
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Pierre-Yves *Mirage* Deslandes:
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The very cool thing about the Arena is its modularity. There are two different types of arena games that can be played: Battles and Challenges. Players can participate to them on either ranked or unranked level. The difference is that Battles are matched randomly, while Challenges are specifically requested fights from players. Before starting the fight, there are Battle types that can be chosen by the players for both Battles and Challenges and are as following: Deathmatch (reaching a specific amount of kills), Time Trial (reaching most kills within a specific time), and Last Man Standing (well, speaks for itself). The interior of the Arena changes too. This means that a different Arena setup can be set (or not) following the battle type you chose. One setup for example features an elevator which can be used, if timed right, to have boost in jump height, and also features lots of ledges where casters and ranged skills attackers can nest. There are so many different strategies for one interior, so just imagine how many strategies you can come up with 5 setups (5 arenas interiors/setups in release, 3 battle types). The Arena also has also a spectator mode, in which other players can watch and enjoy the current fight while being cozily seated in fine ornate rooms spread all around the Arena. Should you want to read on more details about the Arena, I strongly recommend reading the Dev Journal dealing with Arena, available on MMORPG.com here . |
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MMORPG.com:
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Will there be any consequences for losing in PvP combat? |
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Pierre-Yves *Mirage* Deslandes:
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If you’re PvP’ing outside in the world (not in the Arena that is) and die, you simply lose your PeP level (Personal Experience Points; not to be confused with our Fame level, which is what determines the player level, like the normal XP). There’s no other penalty. Dying is already big enough of a frustration. Loosing in a ranked Arena fight, though, is a different story. If you or your team loses, you’ll lose ranking. So pick up a fight, but do not come unprepared, you might regret it. |
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MMORPG.com:
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What rewards do you have in place for PvP? |
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Pierre-Yves *Mirage* Deslandes:
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These rewards range from statues displayed in Quarterstone to unlockable rooms for the Guild Hall, like private guild fighting pit, guild safe… You are entitled to these rewards only if you decide to compete in Ranked tournaments and of course, if you are first on the ladder. It’s important to note that ladders are never finished, tournaments are. |
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MMORPG.com:
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Many players on our boards would favor an open and unrestricted PvP system where anyone is fair game at any time. Why not use this system in Spellborn? |
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Pierre-Yves *Mirage* Deslandes :
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Although we considered it at one point, we decided it was too “hardcore” to have featured in the game. Don’t get me wrong here, I’ve been playing Asheron’s Call on Darktide, and I’m full well aware of what open and unrestricted PvP is, and I do love this system myself. I do hear the wishes of the players on the MMORPG.com boards regarding the Open PvP, but for now, PvP will be limited to the zones I mentioned in the first answer. PK is indeed hardcore, but, don’t worry, we might come up with some concepts which could very well fulfill the wishes of the Open PvP aficionados post release. In general we expect players to be in our “open PvP” gathering zones at least as much as non PvP zones, even if they don’t come there to PvP. Non PvP’ers will have to be in the PvP zones for other content as well (like gathering ingredients for crafting, and Green District), and said zones are not at some far away corner of each shard, where you wouldn’t meet anyone. The more, the merrier! |
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MMORPG.com:
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Ok, I get the last question just for me, so I’m going to steal one from Stephen Colbert: MMORPG.com, great website or the greatest website? |
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Pierre-Yves *Mirage* Deslandes :
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Definitely the best! Even my Firefox says so on the tab: “MMORPG.COM - Your Headquarters for Massive Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Games!” |
Mirage, I don't hear the wishes of "the players" on mmorpg.com boards regarding the Open PvP. It is mostly acknowledged that those areas which give additional benefits like ingredients should be Open PvP but that there should be one exception to Open PVP, and thats doing most of the quests (up to level 50). Because alot of players want to log on just for an hour to do a single quest - and you can't do that if you are constantly attacked by gankers.
Those gamers that like to attack and be attacked on their quest from level 9 to 10 visit Darkfall-forum and aren't all the bored WoW-players hopefully sweeping game-stores out of spellborn copies. That are somewhat elite players without any economic relevance, many posts, few people.
I'm still all for the original gamedesign with the mostly pve-only questzones in the more or less linear gameplay up to level 50 and the Open PVP on the additional shards to explore in an Open PvP environment when the game has left its linearity after the first 5 shards. You can be sure that you have level 50s against level 50s there and no latecomers to the game complaining about high-level gankers in the starting area - which at least messes up the board.
very right.
Lets not confuse a noisy minority of open world full on PvPers with 'the wishes of the forums' plz.
TCoS seems to have the balance right with it's mixture of competition matches and high risk harvesting/ questing in specific zones right now, so lets not create a false reality where 'the player base' is calling for it to be something else. At least not until we see how the game works in reality anyhow. If open full PvP is popular enough to get it's own server later on, fine, but please preserve the choice for us that prefer mainly a cooperative social game.
If I wanted to play Fury, I would buy fury ;)
Anyhow, really looking forward to this title, it is looking awesome :)
hmm
tcos seems much more PVP oriented than what i had gathered previously
where's that to do list
ahh - scratch out TCOS
man, that list is getting pretty frikkin short
I am going to disagree with the pve minority and I really like how they give some focus to pvp. The biggest complaint is that this end game arena stuff sounds like guild wars/wow bung. End game pvp should be like high end content being in pvp zones.
Most non anti social, below the age of 40 gamers want the added element of pvp.
Bad carebears :(
This game had some potential: very good world (no elves/dwarves high fantasy crap) and gearless, twitch-based combat. Unfortunately, it was trolled by whining kids with unicorns for their forum avatars (I'm serious). All the PvP dreams were crushed by people whose opinion on PvP is that "there should no pvp at all, it doesn't belong to MMORPG, if I wanted to PvP I'd play UT". Not to mention that half, if not most of the original dev team left the game. So now we have Arena for end-game PvP. That's rich.
You think PvPers are the vocal ones on the forums? So whose whining ruined UO? Whose whining makes pirating in EVE more and more like a torture every patch? Whose whining ruined original world pvp in WoW?
Needless to say, I won't be touching Spellborn with a 10-foot pole - even WoW or any of the upcoming MMOs have more PvP.
I don't mind pvp.. I actually like it. However, finding that right mix of pve and pvp can be tough. I also know that I am not sure I like where this pvp idea is headed with spellborn. I am trying to go into it openminded and see how it goes since many other aspects of this game seem good to me.
Wumptrooper, you definitely don't know what you are talking about. Spellborn features PvP everywhere, even in the most rewarding starting area. In the endgame you have a free world to explore, the unknown shards uncontrolled by the High Houses. The arena is for those that want tournaments and ladders, you can't incorporate that in the open field.
So it's Open PVP it's just not FFA, it's not free for questing chars in the main quest areas which are controlled by something like a government - it's just 5 shards with both pve and pvp zones. What or whom do you want to pvp there? It's no place for decent pvp, you can't "hold" quest areas and it's no use looting people of their fashion clothes without stats and you can't collect there.
You got it wrong. There was never talk about FFA PvP everywhere and so there was never anyone to complain about it. Besides, PvEers didn't give a damn about WoW world competition, most even played pve servers. It's always PvPers that whine about PvP, like you in your post, PvEers have other issues. For me for example it was a gamebreaker that as a druid I couldn't talk with my brother druids, the tauren, and weren't able to learn their language.
This game is really starting to garner attention, and its well deserved, can't wait for this one.
pure PVE types are a serious minority like it or not. Warhammer Online has #1 hype. I'm no WAR fan but that is testiment how much the community here loves PVP
where we all differ though is how PVP should be treated
But #1 I want to be able to "level" via PVP. Spellborn doesnt have that. I am forced to do PVE all the way to level cap. grrrr, that might take Forever+++ before I can PVP. Hello, even World OF Warcraft on PVP servers I can see some PVP action while I level up to cap. hell those servers used to overflow at launch too. I know my old server, Mal'Ganis, is still full to the rim.
pushing PVPers into a 'zone' you know that aint so bad. but not seeing PVP til I hit level cap? I am a bit doubtful
But I like the other features like realtime dodging and such. I hope you guys please consider a PVP Server. That way I can see a little PVP Action while I level. Cause all PVE can get a bit mind numbing. Plus, would be nice if I could get some XP from PVP. surely this can be worked in somehow? why not have some PVP scenarios or something this awesome game is neglecting PVP rewards fully that is not good. Can I get best items from PVP?
man I like Spellborn but this is the painful truth I might avoid it as well. WoW really screwed me over and so did City of Heroes I'll be damned if I get run over. and ya EVE we saw some nerfs to NOS that was suck too i didnt even get a chance to use mine
Most people only know the basics when it comes to the pvp in spellborn and no little of whats to come. so I will post this here.
For you vajuras. There will be quest in those pvp areas. Take the Green District. This is one of the pvp areas that they talked about. Not only is this a place to gather reources. Its also where a mid level instance is located. With quest inside and out of the area. One thing if you must know about he devs is they are against putting in areas just for the heck of it. There not going to put in pvp areas and not have a really good reason in a lot of cases more then one to go there.
An heres that post from the Offical Spellborn forums.
I just wanted to put this here. Since its a nice piece of info straight from one of our devs Selachii.
FFA PvP servers? Nope, sorry, not at release for sure.
I'll answer every well posed, relevant, question in this thread. I might miss one here and there, but that might be due to the reason Banshee indicated above
What PvP areas?
-The green district, mines and caves. The mines and caves are spread across several shards. These zones are intended for players of +/- level 20 and up.
-Arena district: intended as training ground for some free fights, but that's all up to the players. Accessible to all levels.
-Guild hall: The instanced guild hall will have a small pvp (training) area available for guilds who have unlocked this.
-Arena: Players can fight ranked and unranked battles here. Several different maps and mods will be available on release. Accessible to +/- level 40 and up.
The size of the areas is quite different. Also, we’re not placing the PvP area’s in some corner of a shard so only PvP players will be there. Some areas have gathering related content, some have quest related content.
When entering a PvP enabled area, there will be a system message counting down before it will go in effect.
In PvP zones, there’s no relation between faction/species/guild/high house-members. We can make the distinction, but there’s no zones currently using this. Players in a group, however, can’t attack each other, so they can work together. Basically all PvP zones are currently FFA, with the exception of the Arena. This is because the Arena is currently only 1 v 1, 1 v team or team v team, no FFA mods yet.
There are several concepts for PvP wide shards, based on high houses and guilds, but these won’t be in at release.
On the subject of spectating Arena matches, yes this will be possible. I don’t think it will be in release, but I hope it will, it’s one of those features I really like. Did I mention the spectators’ area of the Arena looks stunning?
The link for this post is here.
http://tcos.com/sbforum/viewtopic.php?t=7446
No it's not open, it's restricted. You basically say it yourself and then insist on calling it open... Also, you shouldn't bring up shard conquest - obviously the idea didn't even get out of their drawing board and won't happen until maybe 2 years after release.
I remember many talks about open PvP, territorial conquest and so on - they went on because the devs were very vague about what they want and are planning. Eventually it became known that PvP will be extremely restricted, and the promised shard conquest is a feature planned for very far future, like many other features. Hard to finish the game with half of the devs gone though ;)
If you've read the TCoS PvP forums (at least around a year back, I stopped bothering lately) you know very well that saying PvErs don't whine about PvP is a lie. I haven't seen so many carebears with unicorn avatars anywhere else, for an unfinished game at least.
To sweeten my whine - as I said TCoS has some good points, like one of the best worlds / background lore out there. Because of that it's great for carebear roleplayers I guess, but the PvP model is way too restrictive for someone who has this part of the game as 1st priority.
There's a lot of misconceptions and inaccurate statements being tossed here in this thread.
For starters spellborn pvp is Free for all. If you enter a pvp zone you can attack friends and enemies just like you could in games like Double Dragon or Counterstrike.
Secondly the pvp is zoned meaning it is not open. It even says so in the article so I don't get how one poster keeps on saying the game is open pvp :|
The rules for pvp and pve are the same. If you understand attack animations like gamers do in fighting games you can figure out how to dodge mobs' attacks. You may find pve boring because you can't taste the tears of a heartless machine; but you can learn to pvp with a level disadvantage, since high level mobs will hit hard like high level players. Yet in the end if you can dodge skillfully enough you can bring down such high level enemies with a low level character.
This leads into something I suspect will happen with ganking, it won't be no where near as effective as before. With other mmos you can't miss while here you can. Based on the skills revealed so far there isn't anything that can kill you in two hits like a BFG in quake. In fact spellborn has a very quirky rule that's going to hinder ganking. To attack anyone you need to unsheath a weapon. Taking out weapons reduces run speed significantly and increases your defense against damage. So if you want to gank someone you have a small window of opportunity to do it because a person who doesn't want to fight you can simply outrun you.
I joined the community only a year after a public forums was built which is a fairly long time at this point and since the week I joined the devs never gave the impression they wanted open pvp. Sure they wanted big epic pvp battles but even then that was supposed to be zoned.
As for devs and other staff leaving some did but the level at which people left is normal for any typical working environment. There wasn't some exodus or massive layoffs like the ones that occured with other companies. In fact they've increased the overall size of their employees over the past two years and moved into better offices to work in.
I'm glad for once someone in the media finally made an inquiry that was pvp focused but all hearing this bit of news now is depress me a bit on the state of the pvp aspect. There was more planned than what will be released but now those ideas are sidelined. There are things I'm going to like like the combat system and the Green District but I was hoping for more.
Ah yes, the fun we had teasing those self-proclaimed hard-core PVP gamers that stepped in and tried to dictate what the game should be like. Some of us even made avatars with unicorns in them just to drive you guys mad. I see you are still mad. Why else should you spread lies about the dev team.
Apart from that you guys where right of course. This game could be much more PvP-wise. However, they had to lower their goal if they wanted to publish this game any time soon. The change they had to make was not including shard conquest at release. This had nothing to do with whining from either side of the PvE/PvP coin. It was technical problems with the network coding that forced them to do that. However, latest I heard is that they tackled and solved this problem, but, of course, now they are keeping silent about shard conquest. I don't expect shard conquest to be in the game at release, but I strongly believe the dev-team is still devoted to the idea and we will see it in the near future (1-2 years from now).
PvP in this game will be fun, mainly due to the unique combat system. I think that many that shunned PvP in other games will pick it up here, which will make PvP even more fun. At least that is my prediction.
I agree... *Pure* PvE types are indeed a minority.
But then, not one post here has called for a *pure* PvE MMORPG eh?
Hate to break it to you, but *pure* PvP types are also a minority...
This is why WAR also has a heavy PvE element, and the main reason that Fury will always be a niche game. And you said it 100% right... WAR has the most HYPE, but we all know hype is just for children and sheep right?
Please don't talk for 'the community'. As I see it the most successful MMORPGs have a PvP/ PvE balance. And that is all anyone here has asked to preserve in TCoS. Hate to break it to you, but the 'community' here isnt the majority in the big picture and dosent represent the market in anyway.
As I said, if 100% unrestricted FFA PvP is as popular as you insist then simple economics will dictate that new servers open to support it. The fact that the market shows starting as a balanced PvE/ PvP game is the safest bet financially speaks volumes.
Signed up for the Beta in 2005 and NADA
My only hope there coming soon a open BETA,Game looks promising.
High time for a new poll.
I agree.. Many would.
The points are though... A) many more wouldnt, and B) polls on this site do not represent the mass market due to it's very nature.
on second thought of course Pure PVE types are pretty numerous just go see LOTRO
no where in my post did I EVER ASK for 100% FFA PVP. I asked for a full featured PVP zone where I could level. for instance, in city of heroes you could go to the PVP zone and *stay there* to level. Please read our posts its just silly to jump in and only read one sentence.
edit- rewrote
Excellent. Don't let the door bang you on the butt on the way out eh?
I don't think the game will be any poorer for one less bad attitude obviously angry pure PvPer.
btw, 'gearless' is really a misconception anyhow... 'gear' in TCoS just isnt visible is all, allowing you to tailor your look, but it still exists, just in a different form.
Oh, and once more for the short bus, noone here has called for *NO* PvP... All anyone has asked for is a choice and a balance and TCoS looks to be doing that admirably.
TCoS is what it is.
They put a lot of time into this story, so is it wrong that they want players to experience, and enjoy it for what it is? Currently, none of the factions are at war. If you're jumping into the game as a character, that's just how it is.
There's so much potential in the future for High House and Guild Wars, and entire zones with open PvP, that it's worth it to me to stick with this game. I like the dodging and aiming, I can PvP right off the bat in the most profitable districts, and they're tying arena rewards in with your guild.
The dev's actually like PvP, and seem committed to keeping PvP a top priority, so along with everything else this game offers, that's good enough for me.
you know what there is no point in arguing about this- Spellborn is straight up PVE game. you know what i wouldnt mind playing a PVE focused game if they be upfront about it and just admit it.
#1 Levels suck for PVP we all know this anyway
#2 They dropped the conquest shard modes apparently so I'm better off waiting for that anyway
#3 They are focused on PVE. That;s fine but dont jerk me around just admit it.
I'm glad i stopped visiting their forums now. And I dont believe for one second this 'pvp zone' will be big, full featured land I can explore. its probably gonna be some tiny, crappy zone like in city of heroes. that will get old fast
darn it- now Age of Conan is starting to look good again. dang, was really interested in this one
they better show some films of how 'big' these PVP zones are. it should be a place I can run straight to as soon as I hit Level 20 and stay there *forever*. many of us like the tension of having to watch our backs and team up to survive. I have a feeling they dont want this
No you don't.
Everything looks awesome so far
If they really will be able to release it till the end of the year in Europe I'll be very happy.
But till then this game will see alot of changes, last months before a game launch everything can go to crazy lenghts to give the DEVs the feel it will come out right.
Expect major changes before this is out all I can say. Too early to argue about carebears and types of pvp zones.
A lot of frustration over something so small. The article says "Many of our members", not "The majority of our members". Many could be two dozen, out of how many members? Geez, people will argue over anything.
MMORPG.com did forget one question:
Are they in talks with a US Publisher?
1. Levels don't suck for pvp. A game can have levels and not have the stupid additonal bonuses that create in balances.
2. Most likely the case for you. Shard conquest was one of the things that hooked me about this game but it wasn't the only thing so I'll manage.
3. This has been my issue with the dev team as well. They are actually very upfront on what they want and don't want based on their beliefs. The degree to which pvp has been sidelined when they say the game is designed with it in mind is questionable.
Until I see how the pvp zones play out though those questions won't be answered.
As for your last point about the size of the zones that's your perogative. Everyone has a different idea of what is acceptably big enough content.
i am not a fan of half hearted pvp attempts. Make up your mind and pick 1 and focus on it, the game will end up being better.
Yeah...this is a straight up pve game that is ruining that by trying to attract some pvpers.
Arena for end game pvp (no thanks)--better off just focusing on the pve content to be honest.
good neutral post there. On point #1 you know what I mean when I say "Levels such for PVP". Levels - like Level 50 one shots Level 30. Levels whereas hitpoints and dmg potential expontential increases at each juncture.
Spellborn is going traditional Class/Level route. So please dont sidestep my post you know good and well what we're discussing here its no big mystery.
Well sure lemontree. Apart from some innovative features of this game like the rotating skill bar you should know how eager mmorpg-players generally await all the new games, War and Conan too, after the depressing releases this year up to now. So alot of gamers now search for their right game to play next year.
Ok i admit it was quite an outburst, and what i wrote could have been said about most any game coming out . But seriously!...Is a rotating skillbar enough to make a game stand out? I bet after the release of COS people wil talk about what game the graphs looks like... -gameplay is like- ..-Its nothing but a (?) clone. And they will be right. I too was looking for the next great game to play, but not anymore. So pull the plug on this stale industry and go do something constructive with ya time and Pc (make music- do a cartoonstripe -write a song) until something worth your time is released (and don't be afraid to have high standards).
You find so strange that they designed arena pvp ? They recruit men like Frank Bakker or Sjoerd de Jong who made many maps for UT. I don't find that strange.
Aha, that's the reason why the arena of TCoS vaguely reminded me of Unreal Tournament. To be honest, I had not expected the arena maps to be so elaborate at all when I first heard about them. Must have been lack of imagination from my side. I just envisioned a roman gladiator arena; nothing special.
All right. You just keep spreading the gospel of your own disappointment, while we are gonna have fun with this game. Although you will do better when following your own advice.
And i did. Feel free to check out my cartoon on MySpace (profile name "Warps").
So, that is the reason why your are wasting you time here. Sly.