i went back to see if there was, indeed, something in me original post that some1 might find offensive.  im going to highlight points i find relavent to the issues that u seem to have problems with.

1.  if u hate SOE, y u still playing their games and/or posting in their forums, i know this isnt actually SOEs forums, but the same basic principle applies.  i cant stand Knight Online, or the makers of Knight Online.  i was a devoted player of KO, and the forums for KO, when i decided that i couldnt play the game anymore cause of bugs and alot of other issues.  i left said game and forums.  i havent visited their forums since i quit.  now, im not telling u what to do, but it seems to me that if u dont like the games and/or company making the games, u should prolly go find one u do like, and stop playing and/or posting in these forums.

the red highlighted text is the text that u seem to have latched onto and quoted from me.

the yellow highlighted text is the text that should answer and squelch any of the problems that u had with the red text.

3.  SWG was crap when i tried it.  ill admit that, but i feel like its more the devs. fault for that.  now im no expert on EQ or EQII, i played EQ for 10 mins b4 uninstalling, and ive just started playing EQII.  i played EQII last night for 6 hrs straight tho, not too many games keep me attention that well.  as far as EQ goes, it looked like it might b a great game...5 yrs ago.  But in this day and age, i want good grafix and sound.  anyway, im not knocking EQ, but it looks like EQII is an updated version of that game, so i play it.  so what im trying to say is when a game is crap, stop playing it, dont go on and on about it for a yr on the forums.  u will come across many crappy games out there, doesnt mean that the publisher or devs. r complete retards, just means that they published a crappy game.   move on, good ppl, move on...

the red highlighted text is the text that u threw in me face and quoted at me over and over as ur basis for y im just an idiot with a hollow review and sales pitch.

the yellow highlighted text is the text from the orginal post pointing out that im not an expert or even claiming to b an expert, and stating a personnal exp. with the game that not too many games can do. e.g. holding me attention for very long sitting.  again, im not seeing a review here.  if u see one, plz let me know where ur getting it at.

hope this helps to clear up some of the misunderstandings.

again, i mean no offense by any of this.

---

Originally posted by PlanoMM

---

Originally posted by lillin

Eq2 forums is a nice play ground for this.  See in eq2 they promote a " positive " atmosphere for thier forum community.  What this entails to though is this, if you are speaking out about the game that a a few "opinionated" people disagree with and give thier opinion in a thread that has little to do with thier thread this starts a ruckus.  THis goes against the positive atmosphere becuase some one gave thier opinion.

so.....it goes against the positive atmosphere of the forums to voice an opinion?  and having a forum entitled, "The Official "We're Angry at SOE" thread" is......positive?  and starting the thread with the intent and purpose of railing on, and running down SOE and their business practices is.....a positive atmosphere?

I bet the poster ment the official forums of eq2. MMORPG.com provided a thread which let people say what they hate about SoE. Thats impossible on the official forums since the rabid soe community and their nazi moderators ban anyone who goes against them.

Good real life example ......... people are discussing ways to improve the limited solo gameplay in eq2.  Basically think of ways to improve the game, well some of the eq purist come in the thread, give thier OPINION and start to derail the thread of its original topic.  People in this thread now have to wade through many post they dont even want to read just to see the ones about the threads topic.  By post page 26 people give up picking through it.

actually, not to derail the topic here, lol, but ur the only one that had a problem with any of what i said, in fact, the only other response to me posts was "Cheers to you Plano. Your post was excellent." posted by imfereal.  so it kinda seems like ur the only one upset about me OPINION.

You are derailing this thread. Please post the positive comment in the happy thread, your not wanted here.

Know what a hollow review is?  It is a review of a product after only reviewing it a short time.  Most of you gamer magazines do this becuase they have so many games to review.  So why did i push your 6 hours and ten minutes?  Becuase you gave a hollow review ................ a game is designed to hook someone in, in the first 30 minutes, its gonna show the flash and the glam ......... however this will fade over time.  I could not play a game for 6 hours and speak so highly of it with thinking i would be taken seriously by serious people.  A hollow review is another way to hook people in a 30 minute period, marketing loop hole if you will.  Using laziness to help the cuase if you like simple black and white explanation.

i agree with u here, and now i understand y u rode the 6 hr bus so long now.  ur right, if i had given a review after only 6 hrs of play, it would have to have been an hollow review.  but if u will reread me previous posts, u will notice that i didnt review anything.  i simply stated that i enjoyed the game, i am allowed to make a post saying that i liked a game, arent i?  also, u proved me own point here too, ur right, the first 30 mins of any and all games is designed to b the hook.  so what does it say about a game, if i cant even stomach more than 10 mins of it?  and note plz, that i pointed out that i played for 6 hrs STRAIGHT.  i dont play games for 6 hrs straight.  even tried and true games like FFXI, DOAC, EVE, Hero, KO, AO, UO, RYL, RF online, WOW, or even DDO could not hold me attention for that long at one time.  side note, i played FFXI for 2 yrs, DDO i still play on a reg. basis, EVE ive played for 1 yr, Hero since open beta, KO since open beta, and RYL for 6 months.  so these r games that i enjoyed playing for a long period of time, with the exception of UO, AO, DOAC, SWG, WOW, and RF Online.  i do have a pretty good idea of what i like in a game, and can usually identify it quickly.

I played eq2 from the start until a few months ago. Fully decked with raid gear, bearing to relearn the game twice (one combat revamp and one tradeskill revamp) and just had enough. I simply sold my account to get my money back from the game. SOE destroyed my game (like they did with swg).

Well you dont like what people are sayin in this thread.  So you felt compelled to offer your point of view in thier thread topic?  Heres an idea go start up a I love sony thread and go praise them there.  Then people who want to praise eq2 know where to go to worship with other followers.

i never said i didnt like what ppl r saying in this thread, i dont really care what ppl r saying in this thread, ppl can and will say whatever they feel like saying.  and u know what, thats cool with me.  thats y its here, to voice opinions.  u dont have to agree with me, i dont have to agree with u, and u can say whatever u want about it.  btw, im not a SOE worshipper or whatever, lol, i just look at it like an adult and realize that they (like any1 of us, if we were in their shoes) r in it for the money.  they make and produce games (good ones and crappy ones), with one goal in mind, to make money.  y would i hate them for that, when thats what id do if i were them.

Yup they are in for the money. Its so deep that they dont mind rebuilding their games every few months willingly and knowing they will loose CURRENT playing customers but dont care since they will rather attract NEW customers. Its the money indeed, they havent got a clue of any moral towards their current paying customers. You know the ones that helped eq2 after a shitty start.

You mention that not all people here are "lobbiest" for thier said beliefs.  But i must ask one question first, how come anything negative about a game is presumed slanderous and untrue, while false hype of game is seen as ok? Anyway, not all may be lobbiest, but maybe they are .......... not everyone knows how to express thier views in ways that are accepted in standard ways, a culture shock if you will.  Some one that says "SOE sucks" while not giving an explanation, i get the idea they dont like soe.  Though someone that says, "EQ2 Rocks, go by it" is seen as ok?  Is our consumerism so bad that as long as someone says buy a product then they are automatically the good guy over someone who says not to?  Both have not stated facts, just opinions with out argument supporting thier beliefs.  Funny how one is evil and one is viewed as an angel though.

may i point out that any1 that points out good points of a game or publisher is called a fanboi and often flamed to no end for their beliefs about a given game.  couldnt it also b argued that "fanbois" r also lobbiest?  u said that some1 saying "SOE sucks" is seen as slanderous and treated badly by the community, but try this experiment for me, go into a forum about EQ2 and start a thread entitled, "Eq2 Rocks, go buy it," and see what happens, lol, if u think "haters" r mistreated.

Successful MMO's.  What makes them successful?  Is population the successful mark? Is how many bought the product the successful mark?  Is people still in the same game for 8 years the succesful mark?  There are many ways to judge success in the game industry.  The problem is that the industry is new, therefore the baisis of measure to judge success is not availible.  EQ1 did great back when it started ......... well WoW did what 6 times greater a few years later?  SO to that logic WoW greater than eq1?  Well wow is more user friendly ........ well sure lets put it the politically incorrect way and say its made for any moron to be able to play.  So is this game a successful game?  Sure if you look at money coming in .......... but what about fun factor?  Well game X was totally fun to its 10000 players but its not successful becuase hey WoW is easy to use and has 6 million subs now. 

not going to get into this with u, cause i agree with most of what u say here.  but i will say this, there is enough of a market now to measure the success of a given MMO.  EQ1 is unargueably a great success.   WOW is unargueably successfull.  FFXI is undeniably a huge success.  these games will b around for a long time to come, there r more, but u get the point, im sure.

Yup eq2 is so succesful that they had to merge their servers. SoE might have a lot of games but all in all they dont stand a chance compared to korean companies and Blizzard. They lost bigtime so now they try it on the console market because they know thats one of their last hopes. They were so desperate they brought Vanguard into their package. They knew many raiders would jump out of eq2 into Vanguard.  Which ment i lost my interest in that game too, but its ok i got a nice sum of money for that beta account.

Well now some may say eq2 falls in this underdog bracket which to some it does.  But many forget about 20 servers being merged, also forget about 2/3's of its population disapearing.  So while eq2 may be successful in being fun for some ........... it lost 2/3's of that total some.  So how do we judge if that is successful?  What to we have to base comparisons from, how many previous mmo's of this genre and or playstyle can we compare to check if this is the norm?  THis is what i mean by the field being too young.

i dont know anything about the 20 server thing, sounds bad.  dont know anything about the 2/3's fo the pop. that disappeared.  all i do know about EQ2 is that i enjoy it, so for me it is a success.  globally, id say that since it is still bringing in new blood and adding new expansions its prolly in its prime.  whether or not it will have the staying power, only time will tell.

Ill stop here for now

again, most of ur points on EQ2 and different things like that i find insightful.  i dont disagree with most of what u have to say, but u seem to have a problem with me and me posts, i dont understand y, but u r entitled to ur opinions.  and i thank u for ur feedback and for reading mine.

---

---

ur prolly right about the official forums, and i dont have a prob. with ppl voicing y they hate Sony.

i created the happy thread, there wasnt a happy thread b4 i made one.  and u and lillian r the only ppl that had a prob with me post, oO and me original post was on topic, the flaming that followed is what derailed the topic.

im sry for ur pisspoor experience with SOE.  btw, this thread has been dead for a while.  and while i dont have a prob. with u voicing ur opinion on the "topic", seems as if u were more likely trying to incite more trouble, when it should b quite obvious that its over, and were over it.

I played EQ2 when it first came out and found it rather bland.  Pretty to look at but taking 20 mins to run to one side of a zone, kill 5 mobs and then run back got boring quick.  So I cancelled.  Several months later I got an email for a 7 day free trial to see all the changes and improvements.  Well heck, I can afford free so I gave them another chance.

I'll be damned I had fun!  So I subscribed for a month.  But.... <evil drum music>... the Combat Upgrade hit and I cancelled next day and never looked back.

SOE seems to take something good and finds ways to bork it up.  They "balanced" the classes in EQ1 then had to "reenvision" them back.  Took SWG and bludgeoned it with the nerf bat til it was a gooey mess on the floor.  Made a very half a**ed attempt at pvp in EQ2, even when they said at release EQ2 wouldn't be a pvp game!

Not to mention the absolutely horrid customer service they have.  If I have a problem in any NC Soft game I get a reply no more than 24 hours later.  When I played DAoC and had to petition someone got with me online usually in an hour or so, if not an email would be waiting for me.  Most of the time SOE tells me to call them on the phone but it's not even a toll free number!

I even remember a time in EQ1 I got a warning on my account when I wasn't even online.  Took 3 weeks before they realised (and admitted) that it was another character with a similar name!   

No SOE or EA games for me, I "dislike" both companies quite a bit. 

PlanoMM

Its not about the SOE games not being immersive or not, its about SOE for years and years fucking over their customers

fucking up their games and making every single business decision into "how do we make the most money out of this?"

They very well know that the reason anyone endures through any of the fuck ups is because they are addicted to the game, and they take full advantage of this

This isnt an uncommon practice in mmo's but SOE is extreme at it, its as if the afforementioned sentence should have read "how do we make the most money out of this and at the same time runining the fun and game for our avid fans? its not like they will stop playing"

Did you know, froglocks were adverticed as an unlockable playable race at the launch of the game, requiring a server effort to unlock them. People never found them and SOE just kept saying they needed to figure out how to unlock them themselves, SOE wouldnt help

Then suddenly almost 2 YEARS later they suddenly admit that froglocks were never even in the game, the screenshots of them were rendered, etc

How the fuck can you do that to people ?

Oh and your issue about "no one but you has commented on my post, except 1 other who actually praised it"

Most people cant be arsed to get into verbal pissing contests on the forums every time they read a forum post

People like you and your adversary up there are perfext examples of annoying forum posters, you keep posting rebuttal after rebuttal and always find something to nitpick at in the other ones made points, as to discredit them for "epeen growth" in that particular paragraph

No offense meant

edit: if SOE is so great, why do you think theres several web sites entirely dedicated to flaming/venting/ranting about SOE and their games ?

Sure, theres whining in all MMOs, but at least on for example WoW forums you CAN actually post negative threads

ur prolly right about the official forums, and i dont have a prob. with ppl voicing y they hate Sony.

i created the happy thread, there wasnt a happy thread b4 i made one.  and u and lillian r the only ppl that had a prob with me post, oO and me original post was on topic, the flaming that followed is what derailed the topic.

im sry for ur pisspoor experience with SOE.  btw, this thread has been dead for a while.  and while i dont have a prob. with u voicing ur opinion on the "topic", seems as if u were more likely trying to incite more trouble, when it should b quite obvious that its over, and were over it.

*sigh, threads dead, every1 is over it, and u obviously didnt read 75% of the posts in this thread anyway.  so i just copied and pasted me previous answer to the last troller cause it still applies here.

Most people cant be arsed to get into verbal pissing contests on the forums every time they read a forum post

really?  then y r u "being arsed" into it?  i certainly didnt "arse" u into it.  threads been dead for wks.

u know ppl usually form prejudgices on some1 by reading their very first post.  urs isnt looking too good right about now.

---

Originally posted by PlanoMM

Most people cant be arsed to get into verbal pissing contests on the forums every time they read a forum post

really?  then y r u "being arsed" into it?  i certainly didnt "arse" u into it.  threads been dead for wks.

 

---

thanks for proving my point

this nitpicking is exactly what im talking about

Thanks for also not quoting me on the nitpicking part i mentioned in my post :)

As for it being my first post, who cares

As for the thread being old, who cares, it has spanned over the course of 5 months anyways

---

Originally posted by Jokque

---

Originally posted by PlanoMM

Most people cant be arsed to get into verbal pissing contests on the forums every time they read a forum post

really?  then y r u "being arsed" into it?  i certainly didnt "arse" u into it.  threads been dead for wks.

 

---

thanks for proving my point

 

this nitpicking is exactly what im talking about

Thanks for also not quoting me on the nitpicking part i mentioned in my post :)

 

As for it being my first post, who cares

As for the thread being old, who cares, it has spanned over the course of 5 months anyways

---

*sigh deeply

kk, w/e jok.  very productive positive post u got there.  feel better.

point of refer. tho, u came in to this thread and called me out with ur very first post, having nothing to say about the topic at hand, only to tell me off and "prove" me wrong.  so.....whos nitpicking?

Oo and "no offense" lol.

 I'm glad I have NWN2 to get rid of the shitty taste of EQ2 and SOE out of my mouth.

---

Originally posted by Tutu2

 I'm glad I have NWN2 to get rid of the shitty taste of EQ2 and SOE out of my mouth.

---