hmmm

i dont post much, and i almost never post if i dont know what im talking about, but i have to say something here.

1.  if u hate SOE, y u still playing their games and/or posting in their forums, i know this isnt actually SOEs forums, but the same basic principle applies.  i cant stand Knight Online, or the makers of Knight Online.  i was a devoted player of KO, and the forums for KO, when i decided that i couldnt play the game anymore cause of bugs and alot of other issues.  i left said game and forums.  i havent visited their forums since i quit.  now, im not telling u what to do, but it seems to me that if u dont like the games and/or company making the games, u should prolly go find one u do like, and stop playing and/or posting in these forums.

2.  SOE is a big company for a reason.  there is actually a reason that the makers of these games seek out SOE to publish their games.  its not because theyre the only company.  i could list alot of other big name companys that could publish these games, but for the sake of time and space, i wont.  suffice it to say that SOE must b doing something right in order to keep ppl paying their subscription costs and keep devs. coming back to them to publish these games, and dont say its only cause of money cause all the other publishers have money too.

3.  SWG was crap when i tried it.  ill admit that, but i feel like its more the devs. fault for that.  now im no expert on EQ or EQII, i played EQ for 10 mins b4 uninstalling, and ive just started playing EQII.  i played EQII last night for 6 hrs straight tho, not too many games keep me attention that well.  as far as EQ goes, it looked like it might b a great game...5 yrs ago.  But in this day and age, i want good grafix and sound.  anyway, im not knocking EQ, but it looks like EQII is an updated version of that game, so i play it.  so what im trying to say is when a game is crap, stop playing it, dont go on and on about it for a yr on the forums.  u will come across many crappy games out there, doesnt mean that the publisher or devs. r complete retards, just means that they published a crappy game.   move on, good ppl, move on...

4.  Everquest was the premiere game for several yrs, SWG was crap, the Matrix is not bad, just not me taste, and im falling in love with EQII, i have individual feelings for every1 of these games, y would i lump them all up under one feeling about the publisher when they were all developed by different developers, ex.  lucasfilm, sigil, WB and Perpetual.  i never hear any1 say, "I hate Lucasfilm, they made a crappy game"  all i ever see or hear is, "I hate SOE, SWG is crap" 

5.  again, i cant argue with what was said about EQII endgame content, cause im no where near the endgame content, but i can say that so far this is the deepest gameplay that ive ever seen.  go play Hero Online if u dont believe me, try to sit down in that game, or dance. lol.  even FFXI crafting system pales in comparsion to what i can do right now in this game, at freagin lvl 8.  at lvl 1 i walked out the front gate and started mining!  u cant do that in any other game on the market.  WOW u have to buy that skill (snickers).

6.  WOW has haters, FFXI has haters, EVE has haters, every game on the market has a segment of the population that hates them.  its normal.

7.  WOW has hardcore devotees, as does FFXI, EVE and every other game on the market.  its normal.

Summary:  sry so long, stop the hate, feed ur goldfish, and enjoy ur gametime(dont waste it on games u dont like), and last but certainly not least, dont eat yellow snow.  thats just gross.

---

Originally posted by PlanoMM

Lets see if i can help answer this.

i dont post much, and i almost never post if i dont know what im talking about, but i have to say something here.

You still shouldn't have post in a thread about being angry with SOE if you are not.

1.  if u hate SOE, y u still playing their games and/or posting in their forums, i know this isnt actually SOEs forums, but the same basic principle applies.  i cant stand Knight Online, or the makers of Knight Online.  i was a devoted player of KO, and the forums for KO, when i decided that i couldnt play the game anymore cause of bugs and alot of other issues.  i left said game and forums.  i havent visited their forums since i quit.  now, im not telling u what to do, but it seems to me that if u dont like the games and/or company making the games, u should prolly go find one u do like, and stop playing and/or posting in these forums.

Thank you for your advice.  Some people feel they should be more proactive rather than passive when it comes to things they used to enjoy.  I was very active in eq2 forums, the game, my guild, as well as the entire server community.  Then the game developers started making some bad decisions.  Even at launch the game had serious problems, they were fixed or lets say changed to up the sub count.  Eventually after many LU's and such people became tired of logging into a diff game over and over, seeing your hard work be trivialized becuase well the market just wanted something easier.

When i pay money for something, i expect to get what im told im getting.  But even as we speak that cant hold to a general idea and stick with it.  Its that old cliche of the politician checking the polls before they make a decision to see if its ok.

So you can see those of us that speak up as lobbiest i guess.  We dont like what we are seeing and letting it be known, rather then just walk off.  Sure both ways are effective at showing your disdain towards something, but one way may have a chance at solving the problem through feedback.

2.  SOE is a big company for a reason.  there is actually a reason that the makers of these games seek out SOE to publish their games.  its not because theyre the only company.  i could list alot of other big name companys that could publish these games, but for the sake of time and space, i wont.  suffice it to say that SOE must b doing something right in order to keep ppl paying their subscription costs and keep devs. coming back to them to publish these games, and dont say its only cause of money cause all the other publishers have money too.

Its not becuase of just money, its thier expirience in the MMO field ............ remember eq1?  What else was out then and still around?  See people/investors know that sony will keep the games going the best they can ............... they arent doing it right persay, not enough competition at the moment to decide if something is done right.  Its ignorance in a new market, with a new genre of games ....... yes MMO's are still very young in the field of game developement.

Look at WoW for instance, i personally do not like the game.  But what, five million others love it ................ so i guess they are making an MMO the right way?  Its a preferance market, drivin by marketing schemes .......... i dont think WoW was done right, but others did, and according to your logic on what proves right and wrong way of doing things ........... WoW is the best since they have so many subs.

3.  SWG was crap when i tried it.  ill admit that, but i feel like its more the devs. fault for that.  now im no expert on EQ or EQII, i played EQ for 10 mins b4 uninstalling, and ive just started playing EQII.  i played EQII last night for 6 hrs straight tho, not too many games keep me attention that well.  as far as EQ goes, it looked like it might b a great game...5 yrs ago.  But in this day and age, i want good grafix and sound.  anyway, im not knocking EQ, but it looks like EQII is an updated version of that game, so i play it.  so what im trying to say is when a game is crap, stop playing it, dont go on and on about it for a yr on the forums.  u will come across many crappy games out there, doesnt mean that the publisher or devs. r complete retards, just means that they published a crappy game.   move on, good ppl, move on...

Again back to the diff in people, some will walk away and some will express there views.  Do what you will, and others will do what they will, advising people to just walk away and say nothing is even worse then this threads content to you ....... you are trying to tell people not to do something becuase you wouldnt  ............... convert any christians lately?

4.  Everquest was the premiere game for several yrs, SWG was crap, the Matrix is not bad, just not me taste, and im falling in love with EQII, i have individual feelings for every1 of these games, y would i lump them all up under one feeling about the publisher when they were all developed by different developers, ex.  lucasfilm, sigil, WB and Perpetual.  i never hear any1 say, "I hate Lucasfilm, they made a crappy game"  all i ever see or hear is, "I hate SOE, SWG is crap" 

Last paragraph you explained your total play time of all these games was about 6 hours and 10 minutes.  Yet you are an expert on them and what entailed with in them.  Interesting to say the least, while that debunks you more so even then your heavy opinionated views, ill continue for grins.

5.  again, i cant argue with what was said about EQII endgame content, cause im no where near the endgame content, but i can say that so far this is the deepest gameplay that ive ever seen.  go play Hero Online if u dont believe me, try to sit down in that game, or dance. lol.  even FFXI crafting system pales in comparsion to what i can do right now in this game, at freagin lvl 8.  at lvl 1 i walked out the front gate and started mining!  u cant do that in any other game on the market.  WOW u have to buy that skill (snickers).

6 hours and so far the game has the deepest gameplay, crafting and even compairing it to another game.  kk go back to luanch and level a toon up through all the patches, then level your tradeskill up at the same time ............... this is back when it wasnt idiot proof .................. then watch everything you worked hard for be trivialized and borderline useless.  Then come back and do your sales pitch in thread not about pushing the game sales.

6.  WOW has haters, FFXI has haters, EVE has haters, every game on the market has a segment of the population that hates them.  its normal.

True, but why call them haters?  Are you the type to label people in order to degrade them as well as try and debunk them by stereotyping?

7.  WOW has hardcore devotees, as does FFXI, EVE and every other game on the market.  its normal.

True, but if you would keep up in forums you would know there are casual devotees as well, why did you forget them?

Summary:  sry so long, stop the hate, feed ur goldfish, and enjoy ur gametime(dont waste it on games u dont like), and last but certainly not least, dont eat yellow snow.  thats just gross.

Summary:  Play a series of publishers games more then a combined 6 hours and ten minutes before you banter on about how wrong and sad people are.  Also try using more factual arguements rather the opinions based off a total of 6 hours and ten minutes and maybe someone will take you more seriously, if at all.

---

---

Originally posted by lillin

i respect ur opinion, and ty for the feedback, but i do have a few quams if u will, about some of ur assumptions.

---

Originally posted by PlanoMM

Lets see if i can help answer this.

Really wasnt anything to answer.

i dont post much, and i almost never post if i dont know what im talking about, but i have to say something here.

You still shouldn't have post in a thread about being angry with SOE if you are not.

i posted in this thread to voice me opinion on the topic, so definitely dont think that im in the wrong forums.

1.  if u hate SOE, y u still playing their games and/or posting in their forums, i know this isnt actually SOEs forums, but the same basic principle applies.  i cant stand Knight Online, or the makers of Knight Online.  i was a devoted player of KO, and the forums for KO, when i decided that i couldnt play the game anymore cause of bugs and alot of other issues.  i left said game and forums.  i havent visited their forums since i quit.  now, im not telling u what to do, but it seems to me that if u dont like the games and/or company making the games, u should prolly go find one u do like, and stop playing and/or posting in these forums.

Thank you for your advice.  Some people feel they should be more proactive rather than passive when it comes to things they used to enjoy.  I was very active in eq2 forums, the game, my guild, as well as the entire server community.  Then the game developers started making some bad decisions.  Even at launch the game had serious problems, they were fixed or lets say changed to up the sub count.  Eventually after many LU's and such people became tired of logging into a diff game over and over, seeing your hard work be trivialized becuase well the market just wanted something easier.

When i pay money for something, i expect to get what im told im getting.  But even as we speak that cant hold to a general idea and stick with it.  Its that old cliche of the politician checking the polls before they make a decision to see if its ok.

So you can see those of us that speak up as lobbiest i guess.  We dont like what we are seeing and letting it be known, rather then just walk off.  Sure both ways are effective at showing your disdain towards something, but one way may have a chance at solving the problem through feedback.

i understand ur point of view and respect that, and agree with what ur saying, but u cant expect me to believe that some of the ppl that posted in this forum r speaking as lobbiests.  i mean really, come on now.  there is a difference between giving feedback on a forum, and running a game and publisher of said game into the ground and slandering the ppl that support the game.  wouldnt u agree?

2.  SOE is a big company for a reason.  there is actually a reason that the makers of these games seek out SOE to publish their games.  its not because theyre the only company.  i could list alot of other big name companys that could publish these games, but for the sake of time and space, i wont.  suffice it to say that SOE must b doing something right in order to keep ppl paying their subscription costs and keep devs. coming back to them to publish these games, and dont say its only cause of money cause all the other publishers have money too.

Its not becuase of just money, its thier expirience in the MMO field ............ remember eq1?  What else was out then and still around?  See people/investors know that sony will keep the games going the best they can ............... they arent doing it right persay, not enough competition at the moment to decide if something is done right.  Its ignorance in a new market, with a new genre of games ....... yes MMO's are still very young in the field of game developement.

Look at WoW for instance, i personally do not like the game.  But what, five million others love it ................ so i guess they are making an MMO the right way?  Its a preferance market, drivin by marketing schemes .......... i dont think WoW was done right, but others did, and according to your logic on what proves right and wrong way of doing things ........... WoW is the best since they have so many subs.

i dont like WOW either, but ur proving me own point for me here, see.  WOW is very successful.  Blizzard is a successful publisher/developer.  EQ1 was a huge success(published by SOE).  meaning that its their exp in the field that draws developers and customers alike back to SOE, same as for Blizzard, SquareSoft, and the like.   and i agree about the MMOs being young in the field, but there is definitely enough competition in the market to determine that SOE and Blizzard r indeed successful in the field.  btw, i believe that WOWs success lies more with the ease of use and success of previous installments of the Warcraft franchise more than the (doing it right) concept.  Oo and personnally, i think that CCP has done it right, lol.

SWG was crap when i tried it.  ill admit that, but i feel like its more the devs. fault for that.  now im no expert on EQ or EQII, i played EQ for 10 mins b4 uninstalling, and ive just started playing EQII.  i played EQII last night for 6 hrs straight tho, not too many games keep me attention that well.  as far as EQ goes, it looked like it might b a great game...5 yrs ago.  But in this day and age, i want good grafix and sound.  anyway, im not knocking EQ, but it looks like EQII is an updated version of that game, so i play it.  so what im trying to say is when a game is crap, stop playing it, dont go on and on about it for a yr on the forums.  u will come across many crappy games out there, doesnt mean that the publisher or devs. r complete retards, just means that they published a crappy game.   move on, good ppl, move on...

Again back to the diff in people, some will walk away and some will express there views.  Do what you will, and others will do what they will, advising people to just walk away and say nothing is even worse then this threads content to you ....... you are trying to tell people not to do something becuase you wouldnt  ............... convert any christians lately?

im sry if it appears that im "telling ppl what to do", i didnt mean to come off that way, but it seems to me, that u can only beat a dead horse so much.  give ur feedback, by all means, but if u notice that theyre not listening to u, seems kinda stupid to keep posting for months on end to no avail.   btw, i am an believer in giving feedback in game forums.  Oo and btw, about the christian ref., beating ppl in the head for months with a bible doesnt convert them either.  not wanting to start something here, just answering ur question.

4.  Everquest was the premiere game for several yrs, SWG was crap, the Matrix is not bad, just not me taste, and im falling in love with EQII, i have individual feelings for every1 of these games, y would i lump them all up under one feeling about the publisher when they were all developed by different developers, ex.  lucasfilm, sigil, WB and Perpetual.  i never hear any1 say, "I hate Lucasfilm, they made a crappy game"  all i ever see or hear is, "I hate SOE, SWG is crap" 

Last paragraph you explained your total play time of all these games was about 6 hours and 10 minutes.  Yet you are an expert on them and what entailed with in them.  Interesting to say the least, while that debunks you more so even then your heavy opinionated views, ill continue for grins.

now here it seems u turned alittle mean, cause if u read the last paragraph u saw that i wrote that im NOT an expert on these games, and dont know what all is entailed in these games.  i made that perfectly clear, so i thought.  i do have heavy opinions, nothing wrong with that, im not telling u that u have to share me opinions, so whats the problem?  last i checked, the forums were designed to share said opinions.  Oo and the point of this paragraph was to point out that i have different feelings for every game i play.

5.  again, i cant argue with what was said about EQII endgame content, cause im no where near the endgame content, but i can say that so far this is the deepest gameplay that ive ever seen.  go play Hero Online if u dont believe me, try to sit down in that game, or dance. lol.  even FFXI crafting system pales in comparsion to what i can do right now in this game, at freagin lvl 8.  at lvl 1 i walked out the front gate and started mining!  u cant do that in any other game on the market.  WOW u have to buy that skill (snickers).

6 hours and so far the game has the deepest gameplay, crafting and even compairing it to another game.  kk go back to luanch and level a toon up through all the patches, then level your tradeskill up at the same time ............... this is back when it wasnt idiot proof .................. then watch everything you worked hard for be trivialized and borderline useless.  Then come back and do your sales pitch in thread not about pushing the game sales.

yes, i played it for 6 hrs and experienced more depth of gameplay then i did in most other games at lvl 30+.  not talking about from launch, talking about from 5 pm to 11 pm on one night, hardly a comparsion, eh?  btw, no sales pitch here, sry u took it that way.  me point was that i felt that i could "do" more at lvl 8 in EQII than i could at lvl 56 in Hero Online, or lvl 55 in Knight Online, or lvl 8 in DDO, all combined.  and yes i do have chars at those lvls in those games, so i do know alittle about it.

6.  WOW has haters, FFXI has haters, EVE has haters, every game on the market has a segment of the population that hates them.  its normal.

True, but why call them haters?  Are you the type to label people in order to degrade them as well as try and debunk them by stereotyping?

i call them haters cause they r selfproclaimed "haters".  if u feel that im degrading u, im sry, that is not me intent at all.  im not talking about ppl that give real feedback in a forum.  ur feedback is indeed, insightful and has alot of things that i hadnt thought of b4.  im talking about ppl that wont let others point out good points of a game, im talking about ppl that have to flame any and all supporters of a said game.  those r indeed, haters, by the very definition.  if that means im degrading them, then what does it mean when they call me a fanboi?

7.  WOW has hardcore devotees, as does FFXI, EVE and every other game on the market.  its normal.

True, but if you would keep up in forums you would know there are casual devotees as well, why did you forget them?

didnt forget them, just doesnt apply here.  6 and 7 walk hand in hand, it was a natural assumption that there r casual devotees as well as hardcore devotees.  there was no need for me to make the post any longer by adding something that should have been deduced.  besides, isnt it long enough already? lol.

Summary:  sry so long, stop the hate, feed ur goldfish, and enjoy ur gametime(dont waste it on games u dont like), and last but certainly not least, dont eat yellow snow.  thats just gross.

Summary:  Play a series of publishers games more then a combined 6 hours and ten minutes before you banter on about how wrong and sad people are.  Also try using more factual arguements rather the opinions based off a total of 6 hours and ten minutes and maybe someone will take you more seriously, if at all.

again, not bantering on about how wrong and sad ppl r, i do think some ppl r, but that doesnt need to b said, but that was definitely not the point of me previous post, and if u took it as such, i apologize.  point of ref. tho, ive been an avid gamer all of me life, excluding toddler yrs.  ive been an avid MMO player since about 6 yrs ago.  so i have played a few (sarcasiam intended) games out there.  again, i made no ref. to EQ or EQII based on opinions, except that i liked them, which is, in fact, a fact.  so im not really sure what ur getting at on the 6 hrs thing.  if u need to know how many hrs in each game that ive played online b4 im allowed to post in a forum about online games, id b more than happy to send u me full gaming resume detailing me exp in each game.

sry for so much sarcasiam, but u gotta admit, u rode the 6 hr thing alittle hard in ur post, as if to say that some1 that has only played a game for 6 hrs shouldnt b posting an opinion in a forum.

Eq2 forums is a nice play ground for this.  See in eq2 they promote a " positive " atmosphere for thier forum community.  What this entails to though is this, if you are speaking out about the game that a a few "opinionated" people disagree with and give thier opinion in a thread that has little to do with thier thread this starts a ruckus.  THis goes against the positive atmosphere becuase some one gave thier opinion.

Good real life example ......... people are discussing ways to improve the limited solo gameplay in eq2.  Basically think of ways to improve the game, well some of the eq purist come in the thread, give thier OPINION and start to derail the thread of its original topic.  People in this thread now have to wade through many post they dont even want to read just to see the ones about the threads topic.  By post page 26 people give up picking through it.

Know what a hollow review is?  It is a review of a product after only reviewing it a short time.  Most of you gamer magazines do this becuase they have so many games to review.  So why did i push your 6 hours and ten minutes?  Becuase you gave a hollow review ................ a game is designed to hook someone in, in the first 30 minutes, its gonna show the flash and the glam ......... however this will fade over time.  I could not play a game for 6 hours and speak so highly of it with thinking i would be taken seriously by serious people.  A hollow review is another way to hook people in a 30 minute period, marketing loop hole if you will.  Using laziness to help the cuase if you like simple black and white explanation.

Well you dont like what people are sayin in this thread.  So you felt compelled to offer your point of view in thier thread topic?  Heres an idea go start up a I love sony thread and go praise them there.  Then people who want to praise eq2 know where to go to worship with other followers.

You mention that not all people here are "lobbiest" for thier said beliefs.  But i must ask one question first, how come anything negative about a game is presumed slanderous and untrue, while false hype of game is seen as ok? Anyway, not all may be lobbiest, but maybe they are .......... not everyone knows how to express thier views in ways that are accepted in standard ways, a culture shock if you will.  Some one that says "SOE sucks" while not giving an explanation, i get the idea they dont like soe.  Though someone that says, "EQ2 Rocks, go by it" is seen as ok?  Is our consumerism so bad that as long as someone says buy a product then they are automatically the good guy over someone who says not to?  Both have not stated facts, just opinions with out argument supporting thier beliefs.  Funny how one is evil and one is viewed as an angel though.

Successful MMO's.  What makes them successful?  Is population the successful mark? Is how many bought the product the successful mark?  Is people still in the same game for 8 years the succesful mark?  There are many ways to judge success in the game industry.  The problem is that the industry is new, therefore the baisis of measure to judge success is not availible.  EQ1 did great back when it started ......... well WoW did what 6 times greater a few years later?  SO to that logic WoW greater than eq1?  Well wow is more user friendly ........ well sure lets put it the politically incorrect way and say its made for any moron to be able to play.  So is this game a successful game?  Sure if you look at money coming in .......... but what about fun factor?  Well game X was totally fun to its 10000 players but its not successful becuase hey WoW is easy to use and has 6 million subs now. 

Well now some may say eq2 falls in this underdog bracket which to some it does.  But many forget about 20 servers being merged, also forget about 2/3's of its population disapearing.  So while eq2 may be successful in being fun for some ........... it lost 2/3's of that total some.  So how do we judge if that is successful?  What to we have to base comparisons from, how many previous mmo's of this genre and or playstyle can we compare to check if this is the norm?  THis is what i mean by the field being too young.

Ill stop here for now

---

Originally posted by lillin

Eq2 forums is a nice play ground for this.  See in eq2 they promote a " positive " atmosphere for thier forum community.  What this entails to though is this, if you are speaking out about the game that a a few "opinionated" people disagree with and give thier opinion in a thread that has little to do with thier thread this starts a ruckus.  THis goes against the positive atmosphere becuase some one gave thier opinion.

so.....it goes against the positive atmosphere of the forums to voice an opinion?  and having a forum entitled, "The Official "We're Angry at SOE" thread" is......positive?  and starting the thread with the intent and purpose of railing on, and running down SOE and their business practices is.....a positive atmosphere?

Good real life example ......... people are discussing ways to improve the limited solo gameplay in eq2.  Basically think of ways to improve the game, well some of the eq purist come in the thread, give thier OPINION and start to derail the thread of its original topic.  People in this thread now have to wade through many post they dont even want to read just to see the ones about the threads topic.  By post page 26 people give up picking through it.

actually, not to derail the topic here, lol, but ur the only one that had a problem with any of what i said, in fact, the only other response to me posts was "Cheers to you Plano. Your post was excellent." posted by imfereal.  so it kinda seems like ur the only one upset about me OPINION.

Know what a hollow review is?  It is a review of a product after only reviewing it a short time.  Most of you gamer magazines do this becuase they have so many games to review.  So why did i push your 6 hours and ten minutes?  Becuase you gave a hollow review ................ a game is designed to hook someone in, in the first 30 minutes, its gonna show the flash and the glam ......... however this will fade over time.  I could not play a game for 6 hours and speak so highly of it with thinking i would be taken seriously by serious people.  A hollow review is another way to hook people in a 30 minute period, marketing loop hole if you will.  Using laziness to help the cuase if you like simple black and white explanation.

i agree with u here, and now i understand y u rode the 6 hr bus so long now.  ur right, if i had given a review after only 6 hrs of play, it would have to have been an hollow review.  but if u will reread me previous posts, u will notice that i didnt review anything.  i simply stated that i enjoyed the game, i am allowed to make a post saying that i liked a game, arent i?  also, u proved me own point here too, ur right, the first 30 mins of any and all games is designed to b the hook.  so what does it say about a game, if i cant even stomach more than 10 mins of it?  and note plz, that i pointed out that i played for 6 hrs STRAIGHT.  i dont play games for 6 hrs straight.  even tried and true games like FFXI, DOAC, EVE, Hero, KO, AO, UO, RYL, RF online, WOW, or even DDO could not hold me attention for that long at one time.  side note, i played FFXI for 2 yrs, DDO i still play on a reg. basis, EVE ive played for 1 yr, Hero since open beta, KO since open beta, and RYL for 6 months.  so these r games that i enjoyed playing for a long period of time, with the exception of UO, AO, DOAC, SWG, WOW, and RF Online.  i do have a pretty good idea of what i like in a game, and can usually identify it quickly.

Well you dont like what people are sayin in this thread.  So you felt compelled to offer your point of view in thier thread topic?  Heres an idea go start up a I love sony thread and go praise them there.  Then people who want to praise eq2 know where to go to worship with other followers.

i never said i didnt like what ppl r saying in this thread, i dont really care what ppl r saying in this thread, ppl can and will say whatever they feel like saying.  and u know what, thats cool with me.  thats y its here, to voice opinions.  u dont have to agree with me, i dont have to agree with u, and u can say whatever u want about it.  btw, im not a SOE worshipper or whatever, lol, i just look at it like an adult and realize that they (like any1 of us, if we were in their shoes) r in it for the money.  they make and produce games (good ones and crappy ones), with one goal in mind, to make money.  y would i hate them for that, when thats what id do if i were them.

You mention that not all people here are "lobbiest" for thier said beliefs.  But i must ask one question first, how come anything negative about a game is presumed slanderous and untrue, while false hype of game is seen as ok? Anyway, not all may be lobbiest, but maybe they are .......... not everyone knows how to express thier views in ways that are accepted in standard ways, a culture shock if you will.  Some one that says "SOE sucks" while not giving an explanation, i get the idea they dont like soe.  Though someone that says, "EQ2 Rocks, go by it" is seen as ok?  Is our consumerism so bad that as long as someone says buy a product then they are automatically the good guy over someone who says not to?  Both have not stated facts, just opinions with out argument supporting thier beliefs.  Funny how one is evil and one is viewed as an angel though.

may i point out that any1 that points out good points of a game or publisher is called a fanboi and often flamed to no end for their beliefs about a given game.  couldnt it also b argued that "fanbois" r also lobbiest?  u said that some1 saying "SOE sucks" is seen as slanderous and treated badly by the community, but try this experiment for me, go into a forum about EQ2 and start a thread entitled, "Eq2 Rocks, go buy it," and see what happens, lol, if u think "haters" r mistreated.

Successful MMO's.  What makes them successful?  Is population the successful mark? Is how many bought the product the successful mark?  Is people still in the same game for 8 years the succesful mark?  There are many ways to judge success in the game industry.  The problem is that the industry is new, therefore the baisis of measure to judge success is not availible.  EQ1 did great back when it started ......... well WoW did what 6 times greater a few years later?  SO to that logic WoW greater than eq1?  Well wow is more user friendly ........ well sure lets put it the politically incorrect way and say its made for any moron to be able to play.  So is this game a successful game?  Sure if you look at money coming in .......... but what about fun factor?  Well game X was totally fun to its 10000 players but its not successful becuase hey WoW is easy to use and has 6 million subs now. 

not going to get into this with u, cause i agree with most of what u say here.  but i will say this, there is enough of a market now to measure the success of a given MMO.  EQ1 is unargueably a great success.   WOW is unargueably successfull.  FFXI is undeniably a huge success.  these games will b around for a long time to come, there r more, but u get the point, im sure.

Well now some may say eq2 falls in this underdog bracket which to some it does.  But many forget about 20 servers being merged, also forget about 2/3's of its population disapearing.  So while eq2 may be successful in being fun for some ........... it lost 2/3's of that total some.  So how do we judge if that is successful?  What to we have to base comparisons from, how many previous mmo's of this genre and or playstyle can we compare to check if this is the norm?  THis is what i mean by the field being too young.

i dont know anything about the 20 server thing, sounds bad.  dont know anything about the 2/3's fo the pop. that disappeared.  all i do know about EQ2 is that i enjoy it, so for me it is a success.  globally, id say that since it is still bringing in new blood and adding new expansions its prolly in its prime.  whether or not it will have the staying power, only time will tell.

Ill stop here for now

again, most of ur points on EQ2 and different things like that i find insightful.  i dont disagree with most of what u have to say, but u seem to have a problem with me and me posts, i dont understand y, but u r entitled to ur opinions.  and i thank u for ur feedback and for reading mine.

---

i went back to see if there was, indeed, something in me original post that some1 might find offensive.  im going to highlight points i find relavent to the issues that u seem to have problems with.

1.  if u hate SOE, y u still playing their games and/or posting in their forums, i know this isnt actually SOEs forums, but the same basic principle applies.  i cant stand Knight Online, or the makers of Knight Online.  i was a devoted player of KO, and the forums for KO, when i decided that i couldnt play the game anymore cause of bugs and alot of other issues.  i left said game and forums.  i havent visited their forums since i quit.  now, im not telling u what to do, but it seems to me that if u dont like the games and/or company making the games, u should prolly go find one u do like, and stop playing and/or posting in these forums.

the red highlighted text is the text that u seem to have latched onto and quoted from me.

the yellow highlighted text is the text that should answer and squelch any of the problems that u had with the red text.

3.  SWG was crap when i tried it.  ill admit that, but i feel like its more the devs. fault for that.  now im no expert on EQ or EQII, i played EQ for 10 mins b4 uninstalling, and ive just started playing EQII.  i played EQII last night for 6 hrs straight tho, not too many games keep me attention that well.  as far as EQ goes, it looked like it might b a great game...5 yrs ago.  But in this day and age, i want good grafix and sound.  anyway, im not knocking EQ, but it looks like EQII is an updated version of that game, so i play it.  so what im trying to say is when a game is crap, stop playing it, dont go on and on about it for a yr on the forums.  u will come across many crappy games out there, doesnt mean that the publisher or devs. r complete retards, just means that they published a crappy game.   move on, good ppl, move on...

the red highlighted text is the text that u threw in me face and quoted at me over and over as ur basis for y im just an idiot with a hollow review and sales pitch.

the yellow highlighted text is the text from the orginal post pointing out that im not an expert or even claiming to b an expert, and stating a personnal exp. with the game that not too many games can do. e.g. holding me attention for very long sitting.  again, im not seeing a review here.  if u see one, plz let me know where ur getting it at.

hope this helps to clear up some of the misunderstandings.

again, i mean no offense by any of this.

---

Originally posted by PlanoMM

---

Originally posted by lillin

Eq2 forums is a nice play ground for this.  See in eq2 they promote a " positive " atmosphere for thier forum community.  What this entails to though is this, if you are speaking out about the game that a a few "opinionated" people disagree with and give thier opinion in a thread that has little to do with thier thread this starts a ruckus.  THis goes against the positive atmosphere becuase some one gave thier opinion.

so.....it goes against the positive atmosphere of the forums to voice an opinion?  and having a forum entitled, "The Official "We're Angry at SOE" thread" is......positive?  and starting the thread with the intent and purpose of railing on, and running down SOE and their business practices is.....a positive atmosphere?

I bet the poster ment the official forums of eq2. MMORPG.com provided a thread which let people say what they hate about SoE. Thats impossible on the official forums since the rabid soe community and their nazi moderators ban anyone who goes against them.

Good real life example ......... people are discussing ways to improve the limited solo gameplay in eq2.  Basically think of ways to improve the game, well some of the eq purist come in the thread, give thier OPINION and start to derail the thread of its original topic.  People in this thread now have to wade through many post they dont even want to read just to see the ones about the threads topic.  By post page 26 people give up picking through it.

actually, not to derail the topic here, lol, but ur the only one that had a problem with any of what i said, in fact, the only other response to me posts was "Cheers to you Plano. Your post was excellent." posted by imfereal.  so it kinda seems like ur the only one upset about me OPINION.

You are derailing this thread. Please post the positive comment in the happy thread, your not wanted here.

Know what a hollow review is?  It is a review of a product after only reviewing it a short time.  Most of you gamer magazines do this becuase they have so many games to review.  So why did i push your 6 hours and ten minutes?  Becuase you gave a hollow review ................ a game is designed to hook someone in, in the first 30 minutes, its gonna show the flash and the glam ......... however this will fade over time.  I could not play a game for 6 hours and speak so highly of it with thinking i would be taken seriously by serious people.  A hollow review is another way to hook people in a 30 minute period, marketing loop hole if you will.  Using laziness to help the cuase if you like simple black and white explanation.

i agree with u here, and now i understand y u rode the 6 hr bus so long now.  ur right, if i had given a review after only 6 hrs of play, it would have to have been an hollow review.  but if u will reread me previous posts, u will notice that i didnt review anything.  i simply stated that i enjoyed the game, i am allowed to make a post saying that i liked a game, arent i?  also, u proved me own point here too, ur right, the first 30 mins of any and all games is designed to b the hook.  so what does it say about a game, if i cant even stomach more than 10 mins of it?  and note plz, that i pointed out that i played for 6 hrs STRAIGHT.  i dont play games for 6 hrs straight.  even tried and true games like FFXI, DOAC, EVE, Hero, KO, AO, UO, RYL, RF online, WOW, or even DDO could not hold me attention for that long at one time.  side note, i played FFXI for 2 yrs, DDO i still play on a reg. basis, EVE ive played for 1 yr, Hero since open beta, KO since open beta, and RYL for 6 months.  so these r games that i enjoyed playing for a long period of time, with the exception of UO, AO, DOAC, SWG, WOW, and RF Online.  i do have a pretty good idea of what i like in a game, and can usually identify it quickly.

I played eq2 from the start until a few months ago. Fully decked with raid gear, bearing to relearn the game twice (one combat revamp and one tradeskill revamp) and just had enough. I simply sold my account to get my money back from the game. SOE destroyed my game (like they did with swg).

Well you dont like what people are sayin in this thread.  So you felt compelled to offer your point of view in thier thread topic?  Heres an idea go start up a I love sony thread and go praise them there.  Then people who want to praise eq2 know where to go to worship with other followers.

i never said i didnt like what ppl r saying in this thread, i dont really care what ppl r saying in this thread, ppl can and will say whatever they feel like saying.  and u know what, thats cool with me.  thats y its here, to voice opinions.  u dont have to agree with me, i dont have to agree with u, and u can say whatever u want about it.  btw, im not a SOE worshipper or whatever, lol, i just look at it like an adult and realize that they (like any1 of us, if we were in their shoes) r in it for the money.  they make and produce games (good ones and crappy ones), with one goal in mind, to make money.  y would i hate them for that, when thats what id do if i were them.

Yup they are in for the money. Its so deep that they dont mind rebuilding their games every few months willingly and knowing they will loose CURRENT playing customers but dont care since they will rather attract NEW customers. Its the money indeed, they havent got a clue of any moral towards their current paying customers. You know the ones that helped eq2 after a shitty start.

You mention that not all people here are "lobbiest" for thier said beliefs.  But i must ask one question first, how come anything negative about a game is presumed slanderous and untrue, while false hype of game is seen as ok? Anyway, not all may be lobbiest, but maybe they are .......... not everyone knows how to express thier views in ways that are accepted in standard ways, a culture shock if you will.  Some one that says "SOE sucks" while not giving an explanation, i get the idea they dont like soe.  Though someone that says, "EQ2 Rocks, go by it" is seen as ok?  Is our consumerism so bad that as long as someone says buy a product then they are automatically the good guy over someone who says not to?  Both have not stated facts, just opinions with out argument supporting thier beliefs.  Funny how one is evil and one is viewed as an angel though.

may i point out that any1 that points out good points of a game or publisher is called a fanboi and often flamed to no end for their beliefs about a given game.  couldnt it also b argued that "fanbois" r also lobbiest?  u said that some1 saying "SOE sucks" is seen as slanderous and treated badly by the community, but try this experiment for me, go into a forum about EQ2 and start a thread entitled, "Eq2 Rocks, go buy it," and see what happens, lol, if u think "haters" r mistreated.

Successful MMO's.  What makes them successful?  Is population the successful mark? Is how many bought the product the successful mark?  Is people still in the same game for 8 years the succesful mark?  There are many ways to judge success in the game industry.  The problem is that the industry is new, therefore the baisis of measure to judge success is not availible.  EQ1 did great back when it started ......... well WoW did what 6 times greater a few years later?  SO to that logic WoW greater than eq1?  Well wow is more user friendly ........ well sure lets put it the politically incorrect way and say its made for any moron to be able to play.  So is this game a successful game?  Sure if you look at money coming in .......... but what about fun factor?  Well game X was totally fun to its 10000 players but its not successful becuase hey WoW is easy to use and has 6 million subs now. 

not going to get into this with u, cause i agree with most of what u say here.  but i will say this, there is enough of a market now to measure the success of a given MMO.  EQ1 is unargueably a great success.   WOW is unargueably successfull.  FFXI is undeniably a huge success.  these games will b around for a long time to come, there r more, but u get the point, im sure.

Yup eq2 is so succesful that they had to merge their servers. SoE might have a lot of games but all in all they dont stand a chance compared to korean companies and Blizzard. They lost bigtime so now they try it on the console market because they know thats one of their last hopes. They were so desperate they brought Vanguard into their package. They knew many raiders would jump out of eq2 into Vanguard.  Which ment i lost my interest in that game too, but its ok i got a nice sum of money for that beta account.

Well now some may say eq2 falls in this underdog bracket which to some it does.  But many forget about 20 servers being merged, also forget about 2/3's of its population disapearing.  So while eq2 may be successful in being fun for some ........... it lost 2/3's of that total some.  So how do we judge if that is successful?  What to we have to base comparisons from, how many previous mmo's of this genre and or playstyle can we compare to check if this is the norm?  THis is what i mean by the field being too young.

i dont know anything about the 20 server thing, sounds bad.  dont know anything about the 2/3's fo the pop. that disappeared.  all i do know about EQ2 is that i enjoy it, so for me it is a success.  globally, id say that since it is still bringing in new blood and adding new expansions its prolly in its prime.  whether or not it will have the staying power, only time will tell.

Ill stop here for now

again, most of ur points on EQ2 and different things like that i find insightful.  i dont disagree with most of what u have to say, but u seem to have a problem with me and me posts, i dont understand y, but u r entitled to ur opinions.  and i thank u for ur feedback and for reading mine.

---

---

ur prolly right about the official forums, and i dont have a prob. with ppl voicing y they hate Sony.

i created the happy thread, there wasnt a happy thread b4 i made one.  and u and lillian r the only ppl that had a prob with me post, oO and me original post was on topic, the flaming that followed is what derailed the topic.

im sry for ur pisspoor experience with SOE.  btw, this thread has been dead for a while.  and while i dont have a prob. with u voicing ur opinion on the "topic", seems as if u were more likely trying to incite more trouble, when it should b quite obvious that its over, and were over it.

I played EQ2 when it first came out and found it rather bland.  Pretty to look at but taking 20 mins to run to one side of a zone, kill 5 mobs and then run back got boring quick.  So I cancelled.  Several months later I got an email for a 7 day free trial to see all the changes and improvements.  Well heck, I can afford free so I gave them another chance.

I'll be damned I had fun!  So I subscribed for a month.  But.... <evil drum music>... the Combat Upgrade hit and I cancelled next day and never looked back.

SOE seems to take something good and finds ways to bork it up.  They "balanced" the classes in EQ1 then had to "reenvision" them back.  Took SWG and bludgeoned it with the nerf bat til it was a gooey mess on the floor.  Made a very half a**ed attempt at pvp in EQ2, even when they said at release EQ2 wouldn't be a pvp game!

Not to mention the absolutely horrid customer service they have.  If I have a problem in any NC Soft game I get a reply no more than 24 hours later.  When I played DAoC and had to petition someone got with me online usually in an hour or so, if not an email would be waiting for me.  Most of the time SOE tells me to call them on the phone but it's not even a toll free number!

I even remember a time in EQ1 I got a warning on my account when I wasn't even online.  Took 3 weeks before they realised (and admitted) that it was another character with a similar name!   

No SOE or EA games for me, I "dislike" both companies quite a bit. 

PlanoMM

Its not about the SOE games not being immersive or not, its about SOE for years and years fucking over their customers

fucking up their games and making every single business decision into "how do we make the most money out of this?"

They very well know that the reason anyone endures through any of the fuck ups is because they are addicted to the game, and they take full advantage of this

This isnt an uncommon practice in mmo's but SOE is extreme at it, its as if the afforementioned sentence should have read "how do we make the most money out of this and at the same time runining the fun and game for our avid fans? its not like they will stop playing"

Did you know, froglocks were adverticed as an unlockable playable race at the launch of the game, requiring a server effort to unlock them. People never found them and SOE just kept saying they needed to figure out how to unlock them themselves, SOE wouldnt help

Then suddenly almost 2 YEARS later they suddenly admit that froglocks were never even in the game, the screenshots of them were rendered, etc

How the fuck can you do that to people ?

Oh and your issue about "no one but you has commented on my post, except 1 other who actually praised it"

Most people cant be arsed to get into verbal pissing contests on the forums every time they read a forum post

People like you and your adversary up there are perfext examples of annoying forum posters, you keep posting rebuttal after rebuttal and always find something to nitpick at in the other ones made points, as to discredit them for "epeen growth" in that particular paragraph

No offense meant

edit: if SOE is so great, why do you think theres several web sites entirely dedicated to flaming/venting/ranting about SOE and their games ?

Sure, theres whining in all MMOs, but at least on for example WoW forums you CAN actually post negative threads

ur prolly right about the official forums, and i dont have a prob. with ppl voicing y they hate Sony.

i created the happy thread, there wasnt a happy thread b4 i made one.  and u and lillian r the only ppl that had a prob with me post, oO and me original post was on topic, the flaming that followed is what derailed the topic.

im sry for ur pisspoor experience with SOE.  btw, this thread has been dead for a while.  and while i dont have a prob. with u voicing ur opinion on the "topic", seems as if u were more likely trying to incite more trouble, when it should b quite obvious that its over, and were over it.

*sigh, threads dead, every1 is over it, and u obviously didnt read 75% of the posts in this thread anyway.  so i just copied and pasted me previous answer to the last troller cause it still applies here.

Most people cant be arsed to get into verbal pissing contests on the forums every time they read a forum post

really?  then y r u "being arsed" into it?  i certainly didnt "arse" u into it.  threads been dead for wks.

u know ppl usually form prejudgices on some1 by reading their very first post.  urs isnt looking too good right about now.

---

Originally posted by PlanoMM

Most people cant be arsed to get into verbal pissing contests on the forums every time they read a forum post

really?  then y r u "being arsed" into it?  i certainly didnt "arse" u into it.  threads been dead for wks.

 

---

thanks for proving my point

this nitpicking is exactly what im talking about

Thanks for also not quoting me on the nitpicking part i mentioned in my post :)

As for it being my first post, who cares

As for the thread being old, who cares, it has spanned over the course of 5 months anyways

---

Originally posted by Jokque

---

Originally posted by PlanoMM

Most people cant be arsed to get into verbal pissing contests on the forums every time they read a forum post

really?  then y r u "being arsed" into it?  i certainly didnt "arse" u into it.  threads been dead for wks.

 

---

thanks for proving my point

 

this nitpicking is exactly what im talking about

Thanks for also not quoting me on the nitpicking part i mentioned in my post :)

 

As for it being my first post, who cares

As for the thread being old, who cares, it has spanned over the course of 5 months anyways

---

*sigh deeply

kk, w/e jok.  very productive positive post u got there.  feel better.

point of refer. tho, u came in to this thread and called me out with ur very first post, having nothing to say about the topic at hand, only to tell me off and "prove" me wrong.  so.....whos nitpicking?

Oo and "no offense" lol.

 I'm glad I have NWN2 to get rid of the shitty taste of EQ2 and SOE out of my mouth.