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Everquest II Forum » The Tavern (General) » Why isn't there more people playing this game???
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station cash items are about as useless and pointless as they get people just want something to bitch about so they will look on the forums |
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Originally posted by Daffid011
It is called business decisions, as this for SOE is a business. As they are continuing with it the big exodus of players has obciously not happened. Personally I have not used it, probably never will but I have noticed that some new players do. The whole discussion does not really have a moral high ground but rest assured that Blizzard is looking at SOE on this to see if it may be something for them. Like it or not but these companies publish games to make money. As I see it the future may be very exclusive games with a high montly fee for the true enthusiasts, some regular games with a mixed payment model and a lot of free to play games. But is is not about any moral statement, business never is. EQ2 is at the moment a very fun and accessible game that still has some of the old EQ hardcore elements left but has been transformed to something for those who wants a casual game that still is a bit "more" than WoW.
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco. He who can describe the flame does not burn. Petrarca |
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Originally posted by Miustus
Well, you can buy some stuff on all servers, like skins, furniture and XP pots. But on Sony exchange servers you can buy and sell everything, there is a huge difference but the fact is that the cash shops do exists on all servers. Personally they dont really affect me either but I still think it is wrong to get in game items for cash in a P2P game, I still play it because I have found no game that is more fun to me than EQ2 butr cash shops are wrong. Still they don't really affect me, the LoN loot cards are a lot more annoying, they are actually useful sometimes. |
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Originally posted by Knytta
It is called business decisions, as this for SOE is a business. As they are continuing with it the big exodus of players has obciously not happened. Personally I have not used it, probably never will but I have noticed that some new players do. The whole discussion does not really have a moral high ground but rest assured that Blizzard is looking at SOE on this to see if it may be something for them. Like it or not but these companies publish games to make money. As I see it the future may be very exclusive games with a high montly fee for the true enthusiasts, some regular games with a mixed payment model and a lot of free to play games. But is is not about any moral statement, business never is. EQ2 is at the moment a very fun and accessible game that still has some of the old EQ hardcore elements left but has been transformed to something for those who wants a casual game that still is a bit "more" than WoW.
Those are fine points, but have little relevance to the topic at hand which is, why do more people play this game. Like it or not the constant pick pocketing by soe has had its effect on the game along side many of the other decisions made by the people running the company. What may or may not happen in the future is debatable. Personally I think soe is testing every aspect of RMT on their older games, because they hold no future for the company and they just don't care enough about the integrity of their games or the service they provide. For a long time soe has held the mentality that it is ok to sacrifice a percentage of customers in order to make more money with something else. It doesn't look like that has been a winning formula so far considering they were once undisputed kings of the genre and now there are plenty of companies doing better than their flagship title. Has station cash proven a winner for soe? I don't think so, but again it is debatable. At the last fan faire a few days ago, Smed said they sold 190,000 station store items total. That is about 31,500 items sold a month (to roughly 25% of the playerbase). At 1 dollar profit per item that makes up for the loss of about 2,100 players. 2 dollars an item 4,200 players. up and up.
It doesn't take to many people leaving between both games for it to be a net loss and yet another bruise on their integrity and reputation.
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There are several reasons why more people aren't playing, obviously. Age, lack of lower level people, LoN, Blizzard fans still running around with their signs "DOWN WITH THE EVIL SOE EMPIRE!" etc... One of the underlying reasons why many of us (including myself recently) are no longer playing is that the developers have begun the same trend that everyone saw with the original EQ. First: We create zones/instances with absurdly tough targets at the end that REQUIRE 40+ people who are top-geared, fully AA'd, etc, to defeat... Next: We add in ridiculous "tier" armor which every player must have or they cannot beat the big targets we've introduced. Add in some instances to allow players to get some form of tokens/points to buy tier armor. Next: Add in ridiculously powerful weaponry and spell-enhancing items to make everyone look at their big numbers and think "yay me". TSO has derailed EQ2. It is the EQ2 version of LDoN, which (for those who never played or refuse to remember) began the ultra-linear expansion progression which followed. Everything that they release going forward will now simply be more hp, bigger stats, bigger items, bigger targets, but no real content. |
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Originally posted by Daffid011
The mistake they made was continuing to make games that was too "Hardcore" if EQ2 on release had been as easy as it is now it would be the big game and WoW would be seen as a bad copy (disregarding bugs and such just to make a point). But EQ2 is an old game and can probably seem daunting to get into, it is not advertised much either. I agree that TSO was a huge letdown for the casual gamers (a point made by a another poster than Daffid) but it was probably needed to retain the raiders and people that play a lot of hours. I think the failure of EQ2 is that it does not really know what it tries to be, is it a game for the Hardcore MMO player, yes somewhat. Is it a game for the adult casual MMO player, yes somewhat. And so on and on. I dunno. I like it.
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco. He who can describe the flame does not burn. Petrarca |
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EQ2 at release was sonys idea of a casual game. They were marketing it as an alternative to the hardcore experience found in eqlive. Small group encounters, solo gameplay and things of that nature. EQ2 Nov 2004 is what soe thought was the winning formula for a casual game and it flopped. There are many reasons it did not do well at release, but most boil down to a few root causes. It was released well before it was ready for market, because soe wanted to compete head to head with warcraft. Second, they just lost touch with what makes games fun. EQ2 out of the gate represented soes best and bightest working on their flagship and it just wasn't very good.
The only reason EQ2 is decent today is because soe has been playing catchup for years and taking ques from other companies. It would never eclipse another game for many reasons, but the biggest is it lacks any pvp features worth mentioning. Not to say the game doesn't have nice feature, but not enough overall. Ironically EQ2 was heavily marketed during release with extra spot lights on Heather Graham and Christopher Lee doing voice overs. Soe is really good at marketing to be honest. The reason they don't market the game much anymore is because it doesn't have the power to attract players, because if marketing would be a cost effective way for them to bring in subs don't you think they would do it? |
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To make it more like EQ or at least like most any other MMO, I'd like to see Battle Movement taken out of the game.
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Originally posted by Daffid011 "It isn't that bad". This game has station exchange so players can sell items to each other for real cash (soe tried to push it on every servers, but player outrage stopped that) The game also has loot cards that soe pushed down the players throats every few months. Soe didn't make the mistake of asking for player feedback on this. Now there is a cash shop that you say "isn't that bad" which is admitting is bad.
Proof that alot of people on MMORPG are ignorant.
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Originally posted by Knytta
The mistake they made was continuing to make games that was too "Hardcore" if EQ2 on release had been as easy as it is now it would be the big game and WoW would be seen as a bad copy (disregarding bugs and such just to make a point). But EQ2 is an old game and can probably seem daunting to get into, it is not advertised much either. I agree that TSO was a huge letdown for the casual gamers (a point made by a another poster than Daffid) but it was probably needed to retain the raiders and people that play a lot of hours. I think the failure of EQ2 is that it does not really know what it tries to be, is it a game for the Hardcore MMO player, yes somewhat. Is it a game for the adult casual MMO player, yes somewhat. And so on and on. I dunno. I like it.
Yes I agree with you, and I think one of the reasons why less people play EQ2 is because of SOE's respect for the customers, and players in general. But also that WoW is easier to get into and isn't as hard. I think the problem with gamers now is that they all want instant gradification, if somthing gets remotly difficult for them and they whine and complain about it on forums. I don't blame the game companys for this, because the game companys are in the buisness of making money. They are just catering to the casual gamer. I however am not a casual gamer, I like things difficult and challanging. I like complex crafting systems and realistic gameplay. This is why I liked Starwars Galaxies so much, and Everquest 1 I blame all you retarded casual gamers for these new shitty mmo's, because you are the reason why we have so many WoW clones now, linear, and static MMO's. Proof that alot of people on MMORPG are ignorant.
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I played EQII for about a month. Frankly, the game was just ugly. All the avatars were ugly, and the world was ugly. WoW was much better looking and had artistic style and flair. Being a casual player, it's not like either game offered me anything beyond that. |
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Originally posted by Loke666
Well, you can buy some stuff on all servers, like skins, furniture and XP pots. But on Sony exchange servers you can buy and sell everything, there is a huge difference but the fact is that the cash shops do exists on all servers. Personally they dont really affect me either but I still think it is wrong to get in game items for cash in a P2P game, I still play it because I have found no game that is more fun to me than EQ2 butr cash shops are wrong. Still they don't really affect me, the LoN loot cards are a lot more annoying, they are actually useful sometimes.
Loke666 ive seen you on these forums for along time and I must say your'e problably one of the more open minded gamers around here with experiance. I play EQ2 for the same reasons as you. I'm hoping Starwars The Old Republic will be good, but I don't have my fingers crossed. Most of the MMO's out now imo are just garbage, and if I don't find anything good within a year from now. I probably will be giving up MMO's all together. Proof that alot of people on MMORPG are ignorant.
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Originally posted by Meleagar
yeah. but thats because you are a casual gamer. You like the instant gradification games. You probably wouldn't even like the original Starwars Galaxies eather Proof that alot of people on MMORPG are ignorant.
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SWG was a horrible game from release day 1. It is one of the worst launches in mmo history. Contrary to what you are saying, swg was a very casual friendly game. People did not quit it because they wanted instant gratification, they quit it, because the game was a train wreck. Don't get me wrong, I very much enjoyed the game and would love to play another like it, but it is completely off base to blame any player for the failure that is swg.
As for your comments about people wanting instant gratification, what makes eq2 so hard that it cannot attract casual players? It isn't like this game, or just about any other, is to hard to understand or that anyone can't level a character here as opposed to any other game on the market. It is the same sequence of button mashing skills that are presented by every other game. It is the same exploration, dungeons, groups, spells, leveling, etc. It is all fundamentally the same and if someone can do it in another game they certainly can do it here. What is so hard about it that you think it fair to blame people for wanting instant gratification?
I think you anger is misplaced and ill informed. Sitting around waiting for a rare mob to spawn isn't hardcore or beyond the capabilities of a casual gamer. Most just consider it boring game play, just for example. |
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Because it's SOE.
Because it's ugly and has the worst art direction I've ever seen.
Mainly those two reasons, for me. Retired: WoW, AoC, LOTRO, FFXI, EQ2, TR, VG, COH Waiting for: FFXIV |
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I'm a freak because I seem to like eq2 :P Right now I'm mostly playing eq2 although I'm still dabbling in other games like vanguard and this weekend aion. To just underscore my issues this weekend I played eq2 mostly for the double xp and pretty much didn't play aion more then briefly.... For some reason I just couldn't get motivated to progress my beta character past lvl 11... Aion has breat graphics, very nice animations, and you can fly! But in spite of that eq2 drew me in with the lure of double xp and mostly running solo quests. I did do a couple group runs with some guildies... So I can't really fathom why more people don't play eq2 other then the herd mentality, everyone plays wow so I must play wow... Maybe eq2 sucks and I just somehow missed the suckage... I don't know... I think eq2 is a pretty good game. 
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Originally posted by Daffid011
if you honestly think that then you must have the IQ of a pea Proof that alot of people on MMORPG are ignorant.
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I think that some people just don't like SOE's business model. Release a game and then release tons of expansion packs and adventure packs to milk the community rather than give free updates to make your subscribers happy.
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I have played EQ2 a couple of times and the same thing always gets me about that game. I do not like the fact that you have to purchase your spells from other players. Sure you can get apprentice versions from npc's but lets face it, without adapts most of the powers sucked and you could barely function for your class. The other part that really ticked me off about that was how overpriced the adapts where. Sure there were a few classes that could adapts cheaply but for most of the people playing it was very hard to afford your spells. It was a catch 22, people didnt want you in their groups if you didnt have certain spells at adapt levels yet these are the same people that put the adapts up for a level 10 person at several gold a piece. Me and a buddy of mine went back and played last year. he played a swashbuckler and I played a warden. It was night and day for the costs of our spells. He was able to buy adapts of every single power he had up to level 20 and none of them ever cost him more than 50-60 silver and that was when he was near 20 and heck, even when he was up in the 40's his costs still only got to a couple of gold per spell. My wardens powers were costing me several gold a spell before I even got to 10. there were lots of spells I couldn't buy simply because I couldn't afford them. I hated this model when they put it in EQ1 after the first expansion. I dont mind having to travel around to vendors to get my spells and I dont mind if I have to do some quests to get them, but having them as random drops off of mobs so that people can sell them is just wrong. I had 2 chars that made it to around 60 and a couple that was in the mid 30's. I can honestly say that I never had more than 2 or 3 spells ever drop for my own class and as for master drops, I got 3 total master drops combined with all my characters and yes I know they were supposed to be rare but thats still crazy. Im sorry, there is just no way anyone can justify this type of spell drop system. I still remember my first character (a cleric) that saw his first adapt spell (a level 2 spell) that was selling for 10 gold. This was right at the start of the game. Nobody had 10 gold. Heck I was in the mid teens before I actually had more than 5 gold to my name. Sorry, I just can not play a game like that any more. I am surprised that I lasted as long as I did considering how bad I hated it in eq1. I will say though, I will never play another mmo that has that type of a spell drop system again. Its just not worth the frustration.
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Originally posted by socrates656
if you honestly think that then you must have the IQ of a pea
Try not to be so closed minded. What I stated isn't an opinion, it is a fact. SWG was a brilliant concept of a game and it was fun to play, that is my opinion. However the GAME was horrible at release. Almost nothing worked, the majority of the game mechanics were still in the concept stages and there was little to no content in the game. Even though I enjoyed playing it from day 1, I will not pretend the game wasn't a train wreck and somehow conclude casual gamers could not enjoy the game. SWG was a disater from the moment it released and was never properly managed from the start.
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Samuraisword
 Novice Member
Joined: 2/15/06
Gamers who use RMT are like athletes who use steroids |
What an odd question. Simply put, EQ2 sucks, and it's also an SOE product. |
Originally posted by Daffid011
Try not to be so closed minded. What I stated isn't an opinion, it is a fact. SWG was a brilliant concept of a game and it was fun to play, that is my opinion. However the GAME was horrible at release. Almost nothing worked, the majority of the game mechanics were still in the concept stages and there was little to no content in the game. Even though I enjoyed playing it from day 1, I will not pretend the game wasn't a train wreck and somehow conclude casual gamers could not enjoy the game. SWG was a disater from the moment it released and was never properly managed from the start.
I have to disagree somewhat to this. SWG was FAR from being a train wreck at launch. Sure it had lots of bugs and things that were not yet implemented (Jedi anyone?) yet the launch was a fairly smooth launch by todays standards and the overall gameplay and feel of the game was in fact good. The content was there, it was in the form of missions which was what they were using at that time for their content generator. Yes many quests were broken and even for some (bounty hunters in particular) many missions were broken as well. But sorry, it was far from a train wreck. Even with all the bugs and problems, the train wreck didnt happen till NGE came about. Sadly I will say that it was the shortest stay for me in an mmo ever. I left shortly after the first month but not because I felt it was a train wreck, I left when sony decided that royally screw up the creature handler instead of fixing the one bug that was making them so over powered. When they nerfed the creature handler and said we will revisit them in a year, I knew right then that l was not going to be able to continue playing the game because if they are going to radically change a class a month after release instead of fixing the one single bug that would have corrected everything for them. I knew that things was only going to get worse and boy did it when they sprung the NGE on everyone. |
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Originally posted by Daffid011
Try not to be so closed minded. What I stated isn't an opinion, it is a fact. SWG was a brilliant concept of a game and it was fun to play, that is my opinion. However the GAME was horrible at release. Almost nothing worked, the majority of the game mechanics were still in the concept stages and there was little to no content in the game.
Eh, I'm sorry but those are opinions, and very general ones at that. 'Almost nothing worked?' Really? I call bullshit, since I was there. The professions worked fine. Yes there were bugs, a lot of them, but to say the game mechanics were in the concept stage is a gross generalization and flatly inaccurate. All 30-odd professions had their defined roles, they differed substantially from one another, and players were able to grind xp and complete their templates as they saw fit. Additionally, crafting/resource gathering worked as intended from the start (with some bugs, mind you, but nowhere near the unplayable state your post seems to indicate). As far as 'little to no content,' I have to laugh every time I hear someone say that about original SWG. Well no shit, there was no quest content, BY DESIGN, as Koster specifically wanted to make an experimental sandbox game where the majority of the content was player driven. Apparently that fact is still lost on a few people, lol.
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Originally posted by socrates656
hahahahahaha thats awesome. Sir you made my day. |
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Originally posted by Samuraisword
Coming from someone promoting the failed game Darkfall i find that a pretty good endorsement. It has to be true, i have internet links. |
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