Originally posted by eccoton

I realized when I started this thread many would disgree with my feelings about EQ2 and it's graphics. That was the reason I started the post because I find them really good. Not perfect but a lot better then most people say. I still believe that many of the negative comments about EQ2 graphics are from people who can not or have not maxed the graphic settings. I say this since I simply do not see the same thing. One comment about EQ2 never looking dark is wrong. First you need to turn off your personnel torch effect (which I hate anyway) you also need to lower ambient light effects, check your gamma setting. I love how dark and moody EQ2 can be. One response talked about how EQ2 only has one light source simply not true. If you set your light options you can have as many as 10 each effecting the enviroment according to it's own physics. Each casting shadows based on its placement in the enviroment. When I stated this I was told I was wrong and did not understand graphics. Well I am not wrong I see the 10 different effects all the time. You can not argue a point with someone who refuses to accept they may have made a wrong statement. When it come to EQ2 I hear a lot of wrong statement. Mostly I think because the person simply has not seen EQ2 maxed with a good framerate. I stand by this opinion.

SOE offers more graphic options then any other mmo. For someone like me this is great I have tested and researched every option and what it does in relationship to the other options. I have even talked directly to SOE about all the options. However there might be to many for some players and most do not know how they really effect the look and performance of the game. I have had other players over to my house and when they see EQ2 on my system they always seem to ask how come it looks so good on your setup. Like I said earlier if you have your ducks in a row EQ2 stands up to the best mmos today graphically. Getting your ducks in a row with EQ2 is to hard for most and a huge mistake by SOE. Getting EQ2 to perform good with your system should be easier.

Other issues about lack of armor styles are true they need more but what they have are great. I also noticed a lot of the negative comments are really more about SOE then the game itself. I think some people really dislike SOE so much that their feelings about anything SOE does will reflect this. Even in this thread many comments include SOE broken promises, lieing by SOE to keep people paying, Lack of art direction, and others. SOE is not the devil as some believe. They made a huge mistake and hurt many players with the SWG thing but they have done EQ2 right in my opinion.

I don't understand why you are so convinced that the main reason people dislike the graphics is that they just don't know how to configure the game. It doesn't matter how many shading effects you have enabled, the models & artwork will still look the same just a lot better highlighted.

Similarly with the armour styles, yes some of them look great but lots of them look mediocre & there just isn't enough choice. Would you be happy to wear the same outfit forever in RL because you hated everything in the shops?

SOE might not be the devil, but they certainly have a lot to learn about customer service. If you forget about Vanguard (no offence to VG fans, but I generally try to), then EQ & EQ2 are the only SOE MMOs I have played. I have of course read lots about SWG, but my opinions about SOE are strictly first hand.

I am genuinely happy that you have had no negative experiences with SOE & hope that nothing happens to disillusion you, but that doesn't mean that you can dismiss other people's dislikes about EQ2 graphics as mere prejudice.

EQ2's graphics are fine! I like them.

Ive seen much worse! LOL

Originally posted by neonaka

 

Originally posted by eccoton

Originally posted by neonaka

The above poster got it right, it has to do with art, not the engine being good. EQ's art director just needs to be fired that's all, he sucks.

You actually think these pics you posted look good?

They are anything but good, if anything they show the bland art style that EQ2 uses.

 

Umm do I think they look good? YES! That was the reason I started this post. I think EQ2 looks great.

 

LOL ok.

You are not alone as I think EQ2 still has over 100k subs, so that means 100 thousand people on planet earth also think it looks good.

That would be 100 thousand people on earth needing glasses and or contacts in my opinion. <-- Notice I said opinion, as I think EQ2's art style is garbage.

I played EQ2 for a long time on Everfrost. I played EQ2 for it's depth and complex world. I did not play for it's graphics as there are MANY MANY games on the market that demolish EQ2 in graphics.

Just because 100k people  play the game doesnt mean they like the art style. When I was playing there was a post or two every day on the main forums asking for new models/art and complaining that the old characters and soga were hideous.

soga elves look sweet

Crappy graphics as compared to what exactly?

Lotro looks better.

Vanguard looks rather nice as well.

EQ2 graphics are far from crappy though.

Originally posted by eccoton

Originally posted by Terranah

Just because you're an art instructor doesn't mean you have good artistic taste.  Why not throw up some examples of your artwork.  Maybe then it will become clear to the rest of us why you think EQ2 graphics are so great.

 

I would have to agree with many of the posters above.  I think the art style itself is very poor, and I think the artists are to blame.  There are moments when it is tolerable though...it's not a total wash.  But, I would have to list the graphics as one of the primary things I was disappointed in when I played the game. 

 

 

No need to be nasty about it. The reason I mentioned I was an art instructor in a gaming program was to point out I know what state of the art graphics are. I also know computers and what the artist are capable of. I did not say that to make it like I knew all there is to know about art or what is great or not. Since that is a matter of taste. Not a single response of mine has put down anyone elses feelings about the graphics in anyway. The point of the post was to get a discussion on the graphics in EQ2. Which it did. Why so bitter?

Not sure what this is suppose to prove to you about why I like EQ2 graphics. Here are a couple of my paintings. The Dancing girl and paper airplane painting is about 6 feet tall and the pattern is about 6ft by 4ft both acrylic on canvas. Not the best picture I just took them for this post.

 

Thanks for putting up the screenshots of your art by the way.  They are very nice.  But I fail to see how your type of art makes you any more qualified in your opinion than the rest of us.

Originally posted by LondonMagus

 

Originally posted by eccoton

I realized when I started this thread many would disgree with my feelings about EQ2 and it's graphics. That was the reason I started the post because I find them really good. Not perfect but a lot better then most people say. I still believe that many of the negative comments about EQ2 graphics are from people who can not or have not maxed the graphic settings. I say this since I simply do not see the same thing. One comment about EQ2 never looking dark is wrong. First you need to turn off your personnel torch effect (which I hate anyway) you also need to lower ambient light effects, check your gamma setting. I love how dark and moody EQ2 can be. One response talked about how EQ2 only has one light source simply not true. If you set your light options you can have as many as 10 each effecting the enviroment according to it's own physics. Each casting shadows based on its placement in the enviroment. When I stated this I was told I was wrong and did not understand graphics. Well I am not wrong I see the 10 different effects all the time. You can not argue a point with someone who refuses to accept they may have made a wrong statement. When it come to EQ2 I hear a lot of wrong statement. Mostly I think because the person simply has not seen EQ2 maxed with a good framerate. I stand by this opinion.

SOE offers more graphic options then any other mmo. For someone like me this is great I have tested and researched every option and what it does in relationship to the other options. I have even talked directly to SOE about all the options. However there might be to many for some players and most do not know how they really effect the look and performance of the game. I have had other players over to my house and when they see EQ2 on my system they always seem to ask how come it looks so good on your setup. Like I said earlier if you have your ducks in a row EQ2 stands up to the best mmos today graphically. Getting your ducks in a row with EQ2 is to hard for most and a huge mistake by SOE. Getting EQ2 to perform good with your system should be easier.

Other issues about lack of armor styles are true they need more but what they have are great. I also noticed a lot of the negative comments are really more about SOE then the game itself. I think some people really dislike SOE so much that their feelings about anything SOE does will reflect this. Even in this thread many comments include SOE broken promises, lieing by SOE to keep people paying, Lack of art direction, and others. SOE is not the devil as some believe. They made a huge mistake and hurt many players with the SWG thing but they have done EQ2 right in my opinion.

 

I don't understand why you are so convinced that the main reason people dislike the graphics is that they just don't know how to configure the game. It doesn't matter how many shading effects you have enabled, the models & artwork will still look the same just a lot better highlighted.

Similarly with the armour styles, yes some of them look great but lots of them look mediocre & there just isn't enough choice. Would you be happy to wear the same outfit forever in RL because you hated everything in the shops?

SOE might not be the devil, but they certainly have a lot to learn about customer service. If you forget about Vanguard (no offence to VG fans, but I generally try to), then EQ & EQ2 are the only SOE MMOs I have played. I have of course read lots about SWG, but my opinions about SOE are strictly first hand.

I am genuinely happy that you have had no negative experiences with SOE & hope that nothing happens to disillusion you, but that doesn't mean that you can dismiss other people's dislikes about EQ2 graphics as mere prejudice.

You make a good point but way over state what I said. I think many people dislike EQ2 graphic simply because they do not like them. However when they use things like lack of light effects, no darkness, poor animations, no shadows, etc these are things that are in options so I think many do miss out because they do not set their graphic maxed or understand all the options and use them wrong. What I am saying is some of the people who dislike the graphics do not have to box to experience them and that is not the games fault. Not everyone though.

Your comments about the armor I disagree with I find it diverse and fun. My toons each have 3 or 4 outfits they wear and they are great. You don't feel that way, I understand that. But your comments about armor are not about the graphics you are talking about choices. This thread was about the graphics of EQ2 not the games shortcomings or it triumphs. There are planty of both. My list of things that could be changed or improved is long. That does not change the fact the game looks good and is fun to play for many. I started this to hopefully get people to take another look at EQ2. Never putting down those that disagree or dislike EQ2 but the tone of many of those that dislike EQ2 (in other threads as well) is one of putting down those who do, as not getting it or being a fanboi. Niether are true in my case. I simply like EQ2 and how it looks.

Originally posted by Terranah

 

I'm not bitter, lol.  But you qualify your opinion by adding you're an art instructor.  I was just trying to get a frame of reference.  Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, something you as an instructor should be keenly aware of.  So I was just curious what eyes you were looking through that EQ2 is so beautiful.

 

 

Thanks for putting up the screenshots of your art by the way.  They are very nice.  But I fail to see how your type of art makes you any more qualified in your opinion than the rest of us.

 

 

 

You totally misunderstand that comment and this is the second time I am trying to explain it to you. I never said the fact I was an art instructor made me more qualified. Nothing in the context of that original statement and anything to do with me being more qualified, go and reread it. I mention I was an art instructor that also taught in a game program because someone here and in another thread said that I simply did not understand state of the art graphic. My mention of my teaching never once said or had anything to do with my feelings about eq2 graphics in anyway. They were used to point out I understand graphics, graphic engines, how the industry works, the tech needed to make graphics, the terminology, etc. I was showing I am more then a gammer I do understand how the games are designed. Has nothing to do with appreciating art or the graphics. I never suggested that it did.  

I hope you understand this I am not putting you down in anyway, but you simply miss understood my comments. Did you read my comment when I posted these picture I said the same thing you did. I did not understand how posting my picture had anything to do with why I liked EQ2 graphics. So I guess I am not sure why you even responded they way you did. You need to reread the original comments in their context. If I said what you claim I did you would have a point but I did not. Here is the quote:

I was told I did not understand graphics or lighting effects (I am a college art instructor and work in an art and gaming program). Basically my thoughts were dismissed because it was said I simply do not get it.

My bitter comment was just a joke. Thought maybe an old art instructor pissed you off or something.

Originally posted by eccoton

You over state the things I posted. I do not think the "main" reason people do not like the graphic is they do not have the settings right. I do believe based on why they do not like them some people do not have the settings right. I also have had terrible feelings about SOE. Did you read my post here about my SWG experience? If anyone should hate them I should. However I have noticed a lot of people who claim to dislike EQ2 graphic find they need to also put down SOE at the same time. I do not dismiss players dislike as prejudice. Some do though.

You make a good point but way over state what I said. I think many people dislike EQ2 graphic simply because they do not like them. However when they use things like lack of light effects, no darkness, poor animations, no shadows, etc these are things that are in options so I think many do miss out because they do not set their graphic maxed or understand all the options and use them wrong. What I am saying is some of the people who dislike the graphics do not have to box to experience them and that is not the games fault. Not everyone though.

Your comments about the armor I disagree with I find it diverse and fun. My toons each have 3 or 4 outfits they wear and they are great. You don't feel that way, I understand that. But your comments about armor are not about the graphics you are talking about choices. This thread was about the graphics of EQ2 not the games shortcomings or it triumphs. There are planty of both. My list of things that could be changed or improved is long. That does not change the fact the game looks good and is fun to play for many. I started this to hopefully get people to take another look at EQ2. Never putting down those that disagree or dislike EQ2 but the tone of many of those that dislike EQ2 (in other threads as well) is one of putting down those who do, as not getting it or being a fanboi. Niether are true in my case. I simply like EQ2 and how it looks.

If you read most people's comments about the graphics they are not talking about the lighting effects though & your thread was supposed to be about EQ2 graphics in general not just the nuances of various lighting options. Most people's dislikes are about the nature of the models, clothing & artwork not the technical aspects of configuring their graphics card.

I'm afraid we will have to agree to disagree about the armour options. You might find them fun, but many including myself find them repetetive & it isn't just a matter of choices because quite simply there aren't enough of them, especially if you prefer to play mages. Your character's appearance is possibly the most important aspect of the graphics in any game & whilst the appearance tab has improved things a lot, it is all still too arbitrary. Rather than being able to really choose how you look, you are left hanging on to a robe that you outgrew 20 levels ago because all the others look ghastly.  Some of the armour options you showed in your previous post are actually high level status armour that is unavailable to lower level players. Other MMOs allow players much greater flexibility from the very start, not just fluff for high level players like the seldom seen 'Professional Hats'.

SOE freely admit that the above restrictions are mainly due to the skeletal system they have been promising to fix for over 2 years now. This would also fix the issues with Euro/SOGA models where players cannot control how their characters look & someone who wanted their gnome to appear as a spectacled boffin for RP reasons could not stop others perceiving him as a greasy lowlife that was desperately in need of a bottle of "Wash'n GO" shampoo.

To many people these fundamental issues are far more important than lighting effects in assessing the quality of EQ2 graphics.