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EverQuest II Interviews: Free To Play Service Coming Mid-August
MMORPG.com's Michael Lafferty has big news today for fans of Everquest 2: EQ2 is going free to play in mid-August. Michael had the chance to sit down with Producer Dave Georgeson to talk about this major step for Everquest II and for Sony Online Entertainment. Find out what it means for subscribers and new fans alike.
By Guest Writer on July 27, 2010
Parallel service will operate on different servers, have different forums and not affect current EQII subscribers
Sony Online Entertainment unveiled a major parallel stride for EverQuest II and the catch-phrase is “Free-to-Play.”
This is not to say that EQII will be entirely free to play. Actually, the announcement is that there will be a parallel service offering that is intended to draw in new players and allow the game to grow.
Producer Dave Georgeson chatted with MMORPG about this major step in the life of the vaunted MMO.
“We’ve actually done a real good job of holding our subscription numbers steady for quite some time now,” Georgeson said, “but the fact is that ‘steady’ is not where we want to be. I have been involved in free-to-play opportunities now for several years, and one of the reasons is why they work is that it allows people to try out the game for an extended period and then decide if they want to play or not. And usually, if they like the game, they are either willing to upgrade to a subscription level, or buy items that make them cool or appear cool or however they want to do things within the game. It’s a much more casual experience, it’s pay as you go and decide what you want to pay and when you want to pay it. Players like that and they come in droves to check out an opportunity that’s really cool.”
One thing that is very important to note is that the F2P service is parallel to existing EQII subscription-based services. Players using the F2P model are on different forums and different servers.
“We talked to our users a lot and some of the things that were really obvious are that they didn’t want to have stat-oriented items in the marketplace,” said Georgeson. “They didn’t want people to be able to effectively buy their way to success. They wanted people to work their way up and that makes total sense – we get it. So we are offering a parallel service; you can buy self-rez potions, you can buy items that have stats – they are not the best stats but they are real good. Everything is very optional. You don’t have to buy items to in order to succeed. We're just making it, effectively, a convenience store. If you want to trade some of your money to save time, you can do that. We are setting it up as a completely separate service.
“In effect, what we are doing is offering a gigantic trial opportunity. You can come into the game, there’s no level limits, there’s very little content lock, you can explore the world and then decide whether you want to stay in EverQuest II or not.”
This was not a decision that SOE entered into lightly.
“We thought about it for a while with EQ II,” Georgeson said, “and basically what it boiled down to is if we went with at free-to-play service like this we were going to be presenting the biggest, baddest MMO that’s free to play. There isn’t anything better than this that is free to play.”
Like many MMOs, EQII has been around a while, having launched in early November of 2004, and the perception is that it is not on par with the titles released more recently. Georgeson said that nothing could be further from the truth.
“It’s an odd thing with games, especially with MMOs,” Georgeson said. “Players tend to think if it’s not the most recent thing, if it didn’t come out in the last three or four months, then it’s kind of old hat. But the fact is that with MMOs it is not that way at all. The longer an MMO has been out, the cooler it is because they have had time to customize their offerings, they have offered all kinds of different abilities, features, content and quests – so usually the more mature an MMO is usually the better offering it is.
“But you always have this kind of issue with the press is covering the new stuff, the users are looking at the latest TV commercial, and so on, and so it is hard to make the opportunity (to test an established game) available and visible to newer players. So by going to the free-to-play service, what we are looking to do is to break that wall down. People don’t have to worry about going out and buying a box or immediately subscribing to a service. They can jump in, try it out, and realize ‘Holy God! This is way better than what I usually get in free to play,’ and then if they like it there is new opportunities for them to get further involved.”
Of course, Georgeson explained, the new parallel subscription model is merely part of the ongoing efforts to keep EQII a viable MMO option for players seeking a game they can invest time in playing.
“We have a new expansion (coming out) this winter,” Georgeson said, “and we have a whole bunch of different things as far as the gameplay itself. We are looking at ways to make old content more attractive. As players try to get to level 90, they go through these greased paths and there is a lot of content in this game that people are not exploring so we are figuring out ways to incentivize and make that stuff more attractive so players will utilize it more. We are continuing to hone all our pathways into the game; we are putting a lot of effort into class balance, and PvP, and battlegrounds – we have big plans for making the game very exciting, very fresh and really to revitalize it on fundamental levels. Of course, we are still working on expansions and new content, and new quests, and all the other stuff you would expect from us. We’ve never stopped. It’s been eight-and-a-half years since they started making EverQuest II and they’ve never stopped adding new stuff, and we are not going to.”
But the key announcement of the day remains the F2P element being added to the game.
“It’s very experimental,” Georgeson noted, “but at the same time, it’s kind of low risk. The subscription players … well, the feeling is they are either going to stay where they are because they like what they’ve got, they don’t want to leave their guild halls, their friends, their contacts and their leaderboards and all the stuff they’ve got already; or a bunch of them may move over to the free-to-play servers. We are hoping to bring in a bunch of new users to take a look at the game, and then hopefully the game will thrive and grow beyond what it has up til now. I don’t think it is a gigantic risk. Some people will be upset that we are changing things, but that is always true. We are setting it up so that it is low impact to current subscribers. If we can make it so, it will be no impact.”
Oh god...its the end of the world...SOE does something that makes sense...argh my brain its ooooozing out.
Except, they need to follow the LOTRO model a bit better. Some of the charges , especially the level from 80-90 one is complete BS.
How is LOTRO's better?
In LOTRO you get 1-50 free (cap 65), plus no quests after level 20.
In EQ2 you get 1-80 free (cap 90), plus all the quests up to level 80.
Because based on the chart, you have to pay $200 a year for that extra 10 levels.
In Lotro, I can keep my regular subscription and I get everything. In EQ2, on this model, the regular subscription still doesn't give you the extra 10 levels. That's the difference.
You can still pay 15$ and play like you allways have with this as well.
Yes, but to get the extra 10 levels you have to pay EXTRA on top of the $15 a month.
You just need to buy the expansion.....
Is that all it is? I already own the expansion. They need to state that on the chart, it's misleading.
the end of P2P is near
Nah, just the end of ONLY p2p. The real factor here is OPTIONs. As it pulls more people in for minimal cost. It's the "big restaurant adds an "a la carte" plan to their full course menu". Everybody wins, at least as long as the content is worth it hehe.
I literally just finally dove and and bought this game last week.
Could any of you EQ2 vets tell me if this is going to have much of an impact on the sub crowd?
(Yes, I read the charts and other info I could get my hands on, just want opinions)
Or, in EQII, you can just not buy the last ten levels... and get the rest of the game for free. My "oh my..." reaction certainly applies, here. And if this works, I can see Vanguard getting the same treatment. Kudos to Turbine for leading the way with this, but SOE's counter-move is brilliant.
I can't wait to try it. The only bad thing is they want to sell items with stats in item shop. =/
i think this is a very clever move by SOE. they know that this game has got a loyal hardcore of players that will continue to sub and will never leave there servers but then at the same time there opening these F2P severs which will bring in a huge influx of new players who normally wouldn ever have given the game a chance.
Isuspect that theres gonna be a lot of snobbery from the existing player base concerning the new servers/players but as far as SOE are concerned, financially they cant lose.
Yeah, I think it will, downward. X amount of people will either start fresh on the new server(s), pay the transfer fee and put their time in on the new server(s), or cancel their subs and drop the game.
There's nothing to push the crowd in the upward direction, the free trials are going to referral only, and the supposed new players who try the game are getting driven on rails straight to EQ2X.
The population on the Live servers almost *has* to drop, there are good incentives to jump off, almost none to jump on.
Played trial enough to like it, but not sub it. I'll probably buy the silver thing only.
The chart does not seem to adress normial sub users.
Not that I see no, the Platinum level simply has a few extra things like shared bank and stuff, and if you didn't have the Sentinels Fate expansion you get it for free. I am surprised SOE took this long for a tier sub model to be in place.
If they did this for station access to allow a cheaper price for less games I might resub on EQ2+DCUO when it gets launched. Right now station access is worthless to me because I only want to play 2 games anyways.
The chart is only about extneded servers..
You can Sub on Extended OR normal servers.
I dont know why anyone who subs would want to be on extended servers though...
It will have unfair items unlike the normal ones.
so pretty much they are marketing EQ2 extended as a completely differnt game as the normal EQ2
On station EQ2 extended will be listed seperately from normal eq2.
and if you have station pass you get gold on eq2 extended and subbed to eq2.
Can you transfer your character from a p2p server to ftp server?
Ya for a $35 fee lol.
They said since its two differnt games pretty much.
Like EQ2 extended plays like free realms from your browser.. and it has completely seperate servers from normal EQ2.
I agree. EQ2 pricing looks even worse than LOTRO
By paying $14.99 a month, the same price paid by subscribers to the main game, players of EverQuest II Extended will get full access to nearly everything the game has to offer, though they will still have to purchase additional races and levels.
There's only two reasons you play on the extended servers rather than sub servers.
1. You plan on buying enough stat enhancing items to give you an unfair advantage.
2. You plan on playing the game without paying a red cent.
Are either of these things actually good for the game?
If you think this is the end of the sub model, keep in mind that EQ2 was a failure just like lotro and DDO. It may share a namesake with a game that was important and successful, but the sequel was not. It was a game completely overshadowed by WoW and is now almost 6 years old with struggling sub numbers.
And if they were confident that they could increase sub numbers and not just make a money grab, then stat affecting items would have no place in their cash shops.
thats IF you sub on the extended servers..
Understand EQ2 normal is a seperate game.
You can sub on EQ2 normal and unlock EVERYTHING.
EQ2 extended requires you to pay more.
Same old Hat, wailing and gnashing of teeth. Obviously this is an ignorant and unfounded statement, as people could have a multitude of reasons for wishing to play on a free server. For example, someone not on a fixed income who wishes to be able to access their character even if they don't have the 15 dollars to spare for subscription costs one month.
That's one example. Pull your head out of it's current location and you could name about a thousand others.
It's on a different server... So I think it won't affect the hardcore p2p crowd too much.
But... who knows, there will always be something to complain about, change is a bitch.
"if we went with at free-to-play service like this we were going to be presenting the biggest, baddest MMO that’s free to play"
That quote makes me have to ask, what crack is that guy smoking? Sure you're supposed to hype your own game but that statement is just wrong. That and he kept refering to everything as "cool", the whole interview sounded like some uneducated kid talking about a game he's into.
This is great. Those that are paying a subscription to EQII have and will continue to subsidize my entertainment. Thanks for sticking it out there for the last couple years, subscription folks!
EQ2 is making a profit, how is that a failure? Do you consider success being close or tied with the most successful MMO? because if you do that is quite ignorant and short sighted.
I'm interested to see what items they will be able to buy and their quality. Maybe the one of the only good devs they had (timetravelling) got canned because he wasn't on board with this.
No, you just have to buy Sentinels Fate to go to 90. It is included in Platinum.
rofl *wipes tears away*
Wellfare gaming is the future!
I think its a good move for such an older MMO to keep it alive.
For my old chars its kinda pointless tho, they are all above the free restrictions, so I guess I can't play them leisurely for free. Which kinda is a shame.
You could not be more far from the truth. Unlike World of Warcraft. EQ2 has released 6 full fledge box expansions and 3 adventure pack addon expansions. The game has managed to maintain / improve on its 200k subscription number for some time. Yes, it may not be the biggest MMO on the market, but it does fall into the standard / upper area of the MMO market when it comes to subscription numbers.
As far as this being the end of the sub model. You must not have read the information on this press release to well. EQ2 Extension is a seperate game and also offers a subscription system to gain access to everything.
This may not be the end of the sub model, it is however more evidence that the hybrid model is taking off and could be the future model MMO's go by. 2 large profile MMO's changing over to it and a failing 3rd MMO switching over to it only to become a huge profit success because of its new model.
I wouldn't be suprised if within the next 2-3 years we do not see Blizzard bring World of Warcraft over to such a model. They already have the tech in place to make it happen. it's just a matter of waiting for the right time to make the switch.
I don't think it is. Pretty sure companies would preffer the steady monthly income that comes from p2p, over random purchases at any given time from f2p.
$10-15 per person each month, or $0-15 per person every 2 months or so? Granted there are some in f2p who spend more during a week than they would on a monthly sub..
But I still think p2p is the way to make the most money, and f2p could simply be a backup plan from now on, just incase things don't go so well :P and I don't see that as a bad thing at all, this way atleast games won't be shutdown and those who do care won't lost their game at all or atleast not as soon.
Ryzom just might have lost a new member, this is the best news I've heard on a long time.
I take my previous statement back, I may be wrong... I looked at the matrix and wow... so many restrictions.
Sweet!
I look forward to checking it out.
incredible this, its less than 2 weeks ago they claimed they aint planning on going free to play, on the boards.
Wow, and they are doing it so quick? Have to wait and see, but this is going to be a big change with both Lotro and EQ II in the f2p arena.
The stupid thing here is they're not applying it to existing servers. Sony is always retarded about servers and keeping things consistent. If they don't apply it to existing servers it sucks and they're missing major items that I think they should include... like purchasing character slots (best change ever for alt-itis... *waves to COH/COV*.) If the cash shop items aren't better than legendary then I have no issues with them. Gives an early head up and later in the game when things get more difficult you gotta earn your stripes normally like everyone else.
This SHOULD be applied globally though because what's going to happen is people are going to end up on the P2P servers and can't get to F2P (and vice versa) servers and such... which is going to suck.
I find it funny how EQ1, the game that came out 5 years before this one by the same company, isn't FTP, when this one is...
Hardly inredible. How many companies announce stuff like this when asked questions? They'd rather do it on their own terms.
And plus, EQ2 isn't going F2P, not really. They aren't switching the current game over to it, like is happening to LOTRO, they basically spinning off a new version of it that is F2P. If you are an EQ2 player, it won't affect you at all, presumably, unless you want it to. Whereas if you liked the current LOTRO model, you're SOL.
Come on man, EQ2 hemorrhaged players and merged servers in the first year. It may not be TOTAL failure, but it is failure none the less. The trend for EQ2 has been slow and gradual failure for several years now. Just like you say a game doesn't have to be the biggest success in the industry to be successful, it also doesn't have to be the biggest failure to still be a failure.
Cutting services and resources while increasing pricing and money grabs might make some profit, but it is certainly not a model for success. That type of practice can only be sustained for so long, which strangely enough looks to be at an end right about now.
sitting reading about it, if this had been 2 or 3 years ago Id most likely had moved on to it - their most expensive is a 200$/year + 500sc/month (sc being their cashshop "virtual money" worth 5$ - so maybe the newest expansion would be possible to buy mainly through those extra money, woould have to see if they restrict the station coins on that kind of purchases tho)
200$ being 13, 333...$/month...aint bad for it + good to read free to play(ers) is abit restricted in chat channels, even if very lightly.
$200 / 12 months = 16.66/month.
to the same as above...find it weird how free to play(ers) will really not be that wanted in groups - non of the buffing classes allowed, and only allowed to play with low tier spell quality and gear, doesnt affect low lvl that much, but in the erh 60+? I bet there will be LF class x, gold members only or higher heh.
All a game needs to do to be successful is turn a profit. People forget that prior to WoW MMO's had subs below half a million and were huge successes. When EQ2 launched it was the most successful North American MMO ever. And it's still turning a profit today.
Hell, WWII Online is still going after more than a decade with only 10k subscribers. They continue to update the game. They couldn't do that if they weren't turning a profit.
Failures would be Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, Motor City Online, all games no longer here.
And what is or is not a success in the market is really irrelevent as long as you enjoy playing the game.
Think further, one of the reasons people dont want to be on a F2P server is , if you want to be on the top you have to spend MUCH more then the 15 dollar a month :) I know people that spend 3000 dollar a week on a F2P game ( in this case atlantica online )
So in the long run you are far more expensive on a F2P server :)
Free 2 play is everything exept free ^^
Atleast good thing they kept both server models seperate ! Very smart
I think Eq2 is doing it smarter than LotRO by keeping the two servers separate. It will be interesting to see which is the bigger success. P2P vs F2P on the same exact game.
Yep, just think how happy all those Landroval players would have been if they knew they wouldn't be forced to play with the F2P mouth breathers, would've saved Turbine some grief and lost subs.
Actually splitting the servers is a really bad idea and if you read the EQ2 forum you will see that people are really upset about it.
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/posts/list.m?&topic_id=483444
Yup. I would still be playing the game if such was the case. Landroval was the server I played on and I do feel sorry for the RP folks once the bunny hopping morons take over the Pony. A lot of nice people are getting the shaft.
the bad part imo being you cant transfer off the F2P servers, only to it - in abit limited form, which really means no new comers will come, but as several stated on this forum, live EQ2 servers really isnt that great, when it come to new characters...so dont think its a good thing for P2P servers, but think for newcomers it could be.
I sux at math btw, 16,666... yus with the station cash tho it will be 11,6 + 5 $/month, locked to the cash shop, on self revive potions (got to be one of the worse ideas for a itemshop...granted dont have that much experience with them)
Seems like a really interesting model. The only thing I dont get is if they're running the 2 versions parallel then why on earth would you go 'Gold'/Sub $15 for the F2P servers when your actually getting less for your money and a server where people can buy some items etc....?
I think it's really clever from SOE
One question before I make up my mind on this...
Is everything that is eventually offered on the EQX servers for RL cash going to be put on vendors in game for in game money on the live servers?
If they do this, and merge the existing servers, I support the move.
So this goes F2P but EQ1 doesn't?
Fixed.
I would actually be playing EQ2 right now if it weren't for my problems staying connected to the server. Same problems I had with SWG post-NGE. For some reason, I just can't stay connected to the server with those two games anymore. Well, I was never able to stay connected in EQ2.
If they don't force the F2P model to regular EQ2 servers, it's OK.
The stupid people can play on their F2P, the normal ones will stick to regular servers. Everyone wins.
Oh, and EQ2 Extended can be a very good long free trial for the new undecided players.
Turning a profit doesn't mean successful.
Any product can slash costs, employees, development, support and any number of other essential features of a game in order to make a little profit. Cutting costs to turn a profit is survivng and if things don't change it will eventually get to COMPLETE failure like the games you listed. A game can turn a profit, but be in the process of failing.
I don't think anyone forgets that half a million is a success in the old days and even today that would hold true if the expenses and investment cost were propotionate. However we are not talking about a game with anywhere close to that number and has only been getting further and further away.
If Vanguard goes this route, sign me up. But yeah paying extra money for levels is bullshit, considering you're either going to have to grind those out just for the sake of saying 'ding' or you're going to pay extra money ON TOP of this to level faster through use of items.
haha yeah eq2 is so old and has so much content that they could basically fire everyone associated with the game and leave the servers running and turn a profit.
Ok this is getting annoying. Why do you call people stupid just becouse they want to play on f2p server?
Ignorance is bliss isn't it, eq2 is very profitable. The money they make monthly ALONE from LoN is considerable and we aren't even talking about the marketplace yet. Stop looking retarded by making dumb statements.
If a game is in the process of failing, then it fails, it's a failure. If it's turning a profit it continues to exist and is thus, not a failure.
Its more than turning a profit if its still running. Companies dont continue to run a business that is breaking even or making less than they deem is worth their time. They close when the forcast leaves no other option. People have been saying EQ2 has been failing for years.
Seems like a solid business move. No one subbing is going to unsub because of it (what veteran wants to start on a new server with the F2P masses?), but other people will be drawn into the F2P (ideally).
Seems pretty win for the future of EQ. If I were going to play it again though, I'd just resub.
I've long expected another mmo would go free to play this year . The thing thats surpised me is that its Everquest 2 . I'm proberbly mistaken but I'm sure I read an SOE statement saying that non of thier games would go free to play . I recently posted in the LOTRO forums saying the hybrid model and the buy to play ( Guild Wars) model are the way forward .
The question in a year or two will be why pay to play WoW . Which is why Blizzard hav'nt ruled out a free to play model .
Someone mentioned that F2P is a way of jump starting older games that have become stagnant. Sounds reasonable. Quality is the issue. Ive always considered LOTRO and EQ2 quality games but im doubful if the quality will remain with the F2P model. I guess im saying, you get what you pay for and while im no fan of Blizzard I have played WOW and its a high quality game. They could lose half their subs and still be extremely succesful with the P2P model.
This is the most compelling argument in this whole thread.
I've not seen anything regarding minimal requirements. I wonder if this will run better than live.
from what I read, the free2play stuff is all on completly different servers and forumns, and the pay to play subs will remain exactly as is with no change or effect except that there may be more players coming ferom the f2p to our servers if they sub.
It's using the exact same software as live. It just has a different launcher and goes to a different set of servers.
As for the rest of the thread... I seriously can't believe that the way the current gold subscription is going to last long. If players aren't really getting anything more for 15 dollars a month, then they'll either won't pay, or go to live servers. Platinum subscriptions cost a bit more than paying month by month, but also give you a bit more than a standard subscription on live. That will probably stay as is.
The way I see how things are going to turn out. Gold will become a standard sub with no restrictions. Platinum will stay because it offers a little extra without being too expensive. There won't be separate servers, because frankly, live servers will be killed off. There isn't enough incentive to start playing there once they kill off the 14 day trial. And if you can't transfer characters to them, there's no real incentive to leave friends you have made behind. So unless the populations are merged, the old servers will stagnate and die off.
It was mentioned by a few conspiracy theorists on the EQ2 forums that may actually be the intended strategy. First, get players reactions to F2P. Find out that nobody wants the game to be F2P. Announce that a carbon copy of EQ2 is going to be F2P. Send the previous players in an uproar because they know that any fresh blood will naturally migrate to the free version. Tell SOE that they'll except the lesser of two evils, and take F2P players on their own servers so that the population won't be split. Watch as SOE rakes in the same kind of money Turbine is seeing.
It's kind of underhanded, but it's a brilliant strategy.
Failing, the process of heading towards the complete failure. Not failed as in run out of options and the only choice left if termination. One does lead to the other and a product can be in a failing state for a long time.
Even still a company/game goes through many little failures that eventually lead to the grand mal of failures.
I might try it, but after looking at the chart I don't know if it's that good of deal. The 15 dollar subscription fee isn't as good as a 200 dollar once a year thing? That seems a little absurd.
“We thought about it for a while with EQ II,” Georgeson said, “and basically what it boiled down to is if we went with at free-to-play service like this we were going to be presenting the biggest, baddest MMO that’s free to play. There isn’t anything better than this that is free to play.”
Total bullshit from SOE. Nothing new lmao~ Creating a paralel world just for F2P, that's so lame as well. That mean I can't play with my buddy who's havign a sub ..
I did Not read all of the above but what I did read nobody said anything about Returning Players??
What is the deal with that?
Well, there is also the option that you want to test out more of the game than you can in the free trial. And you can play more than nothing but less than 15 bucks.
As a current player however am I not that thrilled about the whole thing. From what I seen so far is the model not as good as what Turbine have running in DDO (I will not use LOTRO as an example since it isn't actually implemented yet.
EQ2 however is better than any F2P games out there right now, by far. Ifthey actually manages to get a good payment model they could make a lot of money on it.
I agree with BuzWeaver.
They should totally do this to EQ also. I'd go back to that for true! I used to love playing that game ... good times. I heard that LOTRO is going free to play as well.
SoE probably announced it because of the success that LOTRO is having. it's a strong business competetor and doesn't want to lose it's players to it; or vice versa. Which ever the case, I think it's a very smart move. (As you hear Spiderman saying "Everyone gets one!") I'm from the Verant days and I wish they hadn't been bought out by SoE. I hated it after Luclin came out.
Either way, I'm waiting for Star Wars too. EQ2 will just be another game to add on my list of games to rotate through. Haha.
Sounds good.
SOE IS GOD OF MMOs ENOUGH SAID LOTRO AND DDO BLOWS turbine just rips you off. In the end it will be EverQuest not LOTRO getting more players. If Turbine really thought things through they would not have destroyed a great game buy charging for everything fun about it they will not see very many old players coming back willing to spend $100 just to get everything they have already payed over $100 back 500 points does not = $430 Turbine!!!!!
SOE employee here guys. :)
You are mistaken on several counts there. There will be no server transfers, at least not for several months. What is being sold maxes out at Treasured, which won't even get you started in raiding or even medium hard instances. Level cap is 80.
the 200 $ option is the only proper option on that chart, and my only reason if Id start on the f2p servers would be to be able to do the old content, and in same difficulty as it used to be....tho it wont be completely with their new starter areas throwing ok gear at you all the time, hm is another thing you could wish for the new server, fix the itemization, but guessing that would take too much efford, from devs side, to hope for ;)
amd for guy above with the no server transfers, they said it costs 35$ to get your live char copied, not transfered, copied with all you can have in your bags, and not your plat....tho if you can get items over, it be easy to get plat over anyway.
and lvl cap is only 80 till you bought access to the lvl 90...
I am amused by the differences in reactions between LOTRO and EQ2 players.
LOTRO players are upset that the "unwashed masses" (to borrow a term from the official forums) are going to be allowed on the current servers.
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=346271 is where that term comes from, but many threads have been started about it.
EQ2 players have the exact opposite reaction - they are afraid there will be no more new players on the current servers.
No! Another casualty of the black plague.
P2P MMORPG will be listed next to the dodo bird sooner than expected.
Yeah, I would just like to say this:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3630118#3630118
..and out.
I am a subscriber to the game and I jumped on the alpha. The interface and graphics enhancements are nice. I understand they will be adding the new interface enhancements to the live servers as well. I'll probably make a f2p account as I tend to subscribe for a few months and quit and come back. It will be nice to have a f2p character to play in between.
Wait what enhancements? screenshots please.. =P
It basically makes the game have a more modern mmo feel. Very intuitive with similar layout to other major mmo's. Not sure if it's going to be as customizable but it looks clean and polished. Also they seem to have changed the way 3rd person feels. Camera angle is somewhat different I think. Not sure if the graphics really changed but the starter area for Evil is very nice looking.
I have started wondering lately if SOE is testing the waters of the Free to play market, and one poster stated that they wondered why they did not do this with EQ1. This got me to thinking perhaps they are testing to see how well this works with a "newer" game and if it works well with EQ2, migrating this over to EQ1 as well.
Just something to think about.
And I, as a paying subscriber since 2005, don't give a rat's ass about that, BECAUSE.....SoE did this RIGHT. Unlike other games, they are making it completely separate from MY game experience. So I couldn't care less WHAT they do on f2p servers. FINALLY one company does the introduction of f2p RIGHT. Hallelujah.
I couldn't be happier! Now....how many times have you heard THAT from the paying subscriber base of a game that goes free to play? Not very often.
If you get as far as level 80 and don't like the 80 to 90 thing......to me, that's pretty nuts. If you make it to level 80 in EQ2....trust me....you like the game. You're not going to level from 1-80 in a week. This is NOT World of Warcraft. So I seriously doubt many people that sign up for the free to play servers, are going to be there long enough to even consider utilizing some of that stuff offered. By level 80, they will have either decided that "yes, this is the game for me" and subbed, or they will have moved on to their next MMO already.
Just one opinion.
And your point is what? They didn't change my subscription model.....
I'm a paid subscriber and this has affected me in no way whatsoever. Did you even read the article?
I have mixed feelings about this, but will surely test it. I played EQ2 a little (under a year) a few years back, and I liked quite a few things about it, but since I tend towards solo play and like interesting quests (which EQ2 didn't have enough to my taste), I left it. Still, I kept wanting to go back to see the changes.
Now I will have the opportunity to see all the changes I've read about over the years (such as being able to make coffee in the game in less time than it takes in the real world). Unfortunately, the non-subscription levels don't have many of the things that I liked about EQ2, such as the non-humanoid characters, the broker, and the ability to craft containers (which still exists, I assume, but there are a lot fewer slots for them).
As for how it'd affect the subscription only version of the game, I imagine there'd be some drop in population (at least if the players saying they're going to quite over the F2P version are going to do it). In the long run I wonder if people are going to move from F2P to the "live" version. On one hand, Sony offers no real incentive for that. On the other hand, the Gold membership level looks more limited than the "live" version, which costs the same, so it's possible players will decide to create new characters on the live servers and continue there once they decide the game is worth a subscription price.
Damnit, I was sort of hoping I could play my charactor, with this.
Why would someone want to play for free 1-80, then subscribe to it, and still not get the rest of the content to the game (80-90)? Sounds like another Big Fat SOE Rip Off to me.
Much like them charging us Planet Side players 14.99 or is it 15.99 for the sub on it. A 7 year old game they don't even support any more.
SOE is a Big Fat Rip-Off-And-Duplicate Company that Overcharges on it's services.
This is part of the reason why Blizzard was able to so greatly over take them with World of Warcraft.
They DIDN'T "go free to play," they made a new game, essentially. MY game didn't change. I don't see why people are having such a hard time comprehending this. EQ2 Extended in an entirely new thing, giving people the opportunity, basically, to trial play the game for an EXTENDED (hence the word "extended" in the name EQ2 Extended) for a longer period of time than your average trial.
I don't think you read very many of the responses. A lot of people actually UNDERSTAND what they did by putting it on new servers. It doesn't affect the veteran players. THAT....is smart. EQ2 now will have more pay options than any other game on the market. They have your regular subscription model, they will have f2p with a cash shop that offers items with some minimal stats, and they have had the Exchange servers for YEARS that even allow you to buy ALL of your stat items and armor (yes, the GOOD stuff) for cash....even paying other players cash for items via the exchange system.
It's a win/win/win/win system. Each form of play is a win for people who like that format....and ALL of them are a win for SoE. I honestly can't think of another way they could have done this that would have made me any happier. =D
Of course there's no way I'm moving over to f2p. I'm a very happy subscriber and intend to stay that way. But if this allows for some people to try the game that hadn't before....more power to them. All they have really done is make a very lengthy trial version of the game. Personally...I think it's absolutely BRILLIANT.
Free2Play EQ2?
No thanks.
Wow Soe finally gets something right! Wish Turbine had done this with LOTRO/DDO - maybe let freebies transfer characters to paying server when subbing, but keeping the cash shop out of the sub servers.
Its possible to play lvl 90 without gold or platin.
The normal account doesent have the lastet addon (lvl 80+). 4500 Station Cash...
This is good news for everyone... except maybe the forum trolls which are left with nothing to troll about. SOE pwned Turbine's model here - the separate deployment is at least brilliant.
No problem. I'm sure this was meant as some sort of sarcastic criticism, but the fact is this F2P set of servers will bring in alot more money at a tiny amount of cost, and will subsidise the new content and updates for us long time subscribers, whilst allowing us to play in peace. So, thank you, and I'm sure you will enjoy it. Great game!
p.s. to answer someone above who asked what full subscribers get (as it's not shown on the chart) - you get everything the same as normal, there will be no change to you when this new version releases.
I think you are missing the big picture and just hearing what the developers want people like yourself to hear.
First of all, your game has already changed. Yes it has. Even though EQ2x isn't out yet, it has already impacted your game. Go look at the next game update and tell me why all of a sudden everything is being geared towards a "new player experience". Tell me that isn't a very different update from previous updates in terms of direction and quantity.
Now where do you think all the development time is going to come from the make all this free to play cash shop stuff? Thats right, from your development time. Every single thing that goes into the development of the free to play version of the game comes as a direct loss from your development time.
On top of that, where do you think all the new players are going to go to when given the option? Imagine what your server will look like in a year or two without any new players joining or the people you currently play with migrating off your server to play with their friends on the freebie servers.
Sorry my friend, this is most certainly going to have an impact on your gaming experience. This is soe saying they have given up on the pay to play model. They want people to move to the new servers, because they can stick it to each player that moves there. Pay more, get less. That is how soe loves to run their business.
This is a losing situation for current players, not a win. You benefit nothing from this and only stand to lose and already have.
Ok now I'm excited. I never liked ui in EQ2, it felt disjointed and somehow shaky =P If you know what I mean. Oh I can't wait for the f2p server and this patch =3 I'm already considering buying the fae race in item shop..
I came across this on the PC Gamer.com website and it makes it clearer:
Now there is something that just doesn't compute with me lol I understand the normal sub charge is $14.99 a month which allows you to get to lvl90 max cap, well how on earth do they justify that F2P people have to spend $200 for the privy of getting to max cap, have all classes available to you???? I also fail to see how this will increase game revenue when they are keeping paying subscribers and F2P players on different servers, surely that's asking for trouble?!
Now i would say it's pretty pointless going for F2P on this game because you will never get to max lvl without paying more then what you would do if you actually subbed per month to it....
I totally agree.
And for those that still don't "get it," here is a BETTER description of the new f2p version than the interview that the OP posted (no offense), this one just hit the official forums. The highlights were added by ME to squelch some of the naysayers that don't quite understand the LACK of effect on present subscribers.
Incidentally, for those wondering....NO you cannot play your EQ2 Live characters on the f2p servers. So no, there is probably not going to be a mass exodus from the live servers to go "play for free." Wise, on SoE's part. If you want to play on the free servers you will have to start over, and there are other restrictions as well....such as many less races and even less classes. ALL THIS IS....and I repeat.....ALL THIS IS....is an EXTENDED TRIAL that offers FAR MORE than most MMO trials offer.
SoE has finally hit one out of the ballpark. /cheer
Hi there, Norrathians,
As they say, the one thing that’s always true about the world is that it changes. That’s true of the world in general, the game industry, and it’s always been true with “EverQuest II”.
The very nature of an MMO is change. We listen, we adapt, and the game grows in features, content, and fun factor as the months and years pass. Now, the expectations of gamers and the industry itself are changing around us, and it’s time for “EverQuest II” to spring forward so it can continue to expand and be successful.
Many of you are aware of the free-to-play model that’s being embraced by many of the big game developers out there. We’re not the first folks to entertain the idea for an MMO, but we do have the biggest and best virtual world to offer in such a model and we firmly believe that we can expose thousands and thousands of new players to the world of Norrath if we embrace that concept.
However, before going any further, I’d like to stop and say that we’re tied into what you, the community of EQII players, have said about selling items with stats and how they affect a game where you traditionally earn your way forward. We completely understand there’s a solid core of you that want nothing at all to do with that. We respect your wishes and, as I’ve personally stated previously, we’re not planning any changes to the current subscription worlds at all. Those servers, that subscription service and that gameplay will continue as normal. We’ll continue to support the existing Live service with content, expansions, features, and events…just as we’ve always done. In fact, we’re upping the ante by providing subscription rewards packages for active users that buy multi-month subscriptions, giving them rewards like cool, unique, exclusive items and Station Cash.
But the free-to-play concept is a strong way to expose the world of Norrath to hordes of new players. Think of it as a huge new way to run a “free trial” like we’ve always done, but without the “14-day” limit, and with a lot more content available to try before you decide whether you want to commit to the game or not. We’ve had over eight years to grow this game, its content and its features, and there’s simply nothing else like it out there.
So, we’re about to launch a bold new service named “EverQuest II Extended” (EQ2X). This is a completely separate service from the standard EQII Live subscription service (EQII). It's aims are simply to attract new players to the world of “EverQuest II” and let them try it out before deciding if and how they want to pay for it.
“EverQuest II Extended” shares all the content and features of Live EQII. It plays the same. It looks the same. It *is* the same, with two obvious exceptions: a) it’s free-to-play, and b) it has a more robust marketplace.
What does “free-to-play” mean? It means that you can download the game and play all of it (except the most recent expansion) all the way up to level 80. Your character is restricted in a bunch of different ways (limited class selection, limited races, limited coin, etc.) and to unlock those features fully, you’ll need to subscribe to Gold level membership. Which, coincidentally, is $15/month. Sound familiar?
What is a “robust marketplace”? It’s exactly the same marketplace that you see on the EQII service, but it also adds lots of “convenience” items. Can’t find a good shield in-game? We sell one appropriate to your level and class. Want a healing potion to use in a pinch? Need an emergency buff? Want to shortcut your research time? Items like that are all available in the marketplace. Do we sell the very best items and equipment? Nope. Legendary and Fabled gear are better than what you can buy in the marketplace. Has the game been rebalanced so that you *need* to buy these “convenience” items? Nope. EQ2X is exactly the same game that you’re playing currently on the EQII servers. Those items are just there if you want them. They are true “convenience” items.
There’s lots more details about all of this (and you can find the FAQ at http://eq2players.station.sony.com/...ay/extended_faq), but remember…this only affects you if you want it to affect you. If you ignore EQ2X completely, then your existing subscription, game, and support are unchanged.
If you’re a current subscriber, and you’d like to take a peek at “EverQuest II Extended” on its new Test server, you can jump into the game at the Free membership level by clicking here and streaming down the game client you’ll need. (http://launch.soe.com/eq2x/) This is the Alpha version of the service and its currently only available to existing subscribers so you can see it for yourselves before the public sees it later. The beta launch of the EQ2X service will occur in mid-August.
Whether you check out the new stuff as a Live subscription player, or as an Extended player, you’ll see examples of how we upgrade the content simultaneously across both services. We’ve significantly improved the UI, skill progressions, new user quest content, tutorials, created the “Regions of Interest” system so you can see where your quests are located, and much more.
Enjoy.
-- Dave (Smokejumper) Georgeson.
[Edited for formatting and to add link]
EQII Extended - Feedback and Discussion Thread
Message edited by Amnerys on 07/27/2010 11:04:32.
What you miss here is that someone lvling from 1->80 won't pay a penny while doing so, which also takes a long time. If he had chosen the subscription-based deployment of the game, he would be paying a sub all that time.
You see here that unlike DDO, which favors f2p players for long-term gaming (by buying content), and p2p players for short-term gaming (by renting content), SOE did it right and favors f2p gamers for short-term (by playing through content fast and then probably leaving) and p2p for long-term gaming (for the traditional MMO "end-game" experience).
I highlighted the part that non-EQ2 players don't "get" here. You're not going to level from 1 to 80 in a week on EQ2. First of all...you have AAs to think about. If you hit 80 with NO AAs...you are going to suck....really hard. You'll likely need to level lock every ten levels or so to pump up your AA gain with your xp, rather than giving all your xp to combat and adventuring experience. Or...you may want to set your AA slider to 30, 50, 70 percent or whatever, so that some of your combat, questing, and adventuring experience goes toward AAs and not just your adventuring level, or....as I said....you're going to find at about level 50....you can't fight worth a crap.
Do you craft? Well crafting takes TIME in EQ2. This isn't WoW, where you just have the mats and hit a "create all" button then go make yourself a salad and drink while you wait.
What SoE is offering here is a very very attractive extended trial. Their ideal is not for player to stay on the free to play server indefinitely. Their ideal is for people to find that they really ENJOY the game, the housing, the crafting, the AA system, the questing, the lore and legend quests, the collections, etc. and either start over on the paid servers OR.....sub on the EQ2X servers. It's actually the right way to do trials, and/or free to play, when you already have a solid core subscriber base.
Actually, Sentinel's Fate was on sale (at least last week....maybe still) for 14.95 from Direct2Drive. No point in paying 45 dollars for the expansion. Even at regular price at the store...it's only 29.95. I'm not sure why anyone would buy it with Station Cash, but...to each their own.
Oh yeah, it totally makes sense! SOE is going against the wishes of their loyal, veteran players and doing what they said they wouldn't... Pure genius.
As long as they keep it on separate servers, I'm okay with it. If they infect regular servers with it though, I'll never play EQ again, ever, and any other game SOE makes is going to have to impress the heck out of me to get me to even try it.
You're not understanding, apparently. Frankly, I'm also not sure what you're talking about when you say "already small population" on the live servers?? O.o Antonia Bayle, Lucan D'Lere, and Everfrost (at least those three) never have a "small" population. I see people ALL THE TIME. Everfrost is a medium pop server (as most of the others) and AB and LD.....are FOOKING CROWDED. The PvP servers don't appear to be lacking population either. Hell even the EXCHANGE servers, are medium pop and up most hours of the day.
I'm wondering if some of the population comments about EQ2 that I see on these forums all the time come from people that are actually PLAYING the game or not?
Besides....SoE did actually listen to the subscriber base this time. Most of us don't WANT the free to play players on our servers. For one....most of us do NOT want stat items in the Marketplace. That is part and parcel of the f2p game, which incidentally, is called EQ2X It's the same game with different Marketplace items, race restrictions, some class restrictions, etc. THAT does not fit on the live servers. And SoE was smart enough to realize the CHAOS that would have caused to try to do what LotRO did. The subscriber base, overall, did not WANT THAT.
At least in THIS subscriber's opinion....SoE absolutely did the RIGHT thing here.
And where do you get THAT idea? I'm not seeing a lot of veterans DISLIKING this idea of having the free to player players on DIFFERENT servers from us......
What they SAID....is that EQ2 would not go free to play. It hasn't. EQ2X....is free to play. It doesn't affect the EQ2 subscriber base AT ALL. All they've done is offer an EXTENDED FREE TRIAL.. Good gawd why are people having such a hard time understanding this????
Do tell where you see veterans (that actually understand how the f2p thing is being done) complaining about it.....
EXACTLY.
I still find it funny that there is a "wrong way" to play EQ2 while leveling. That is such a flawed design it isn't even funny.
Also this isn't some extended trial as the developers keep saying. It is the launching of a brand new version of the game. Soe doesn't expect players to spend time leveling 80 levels and then decide they like the game, throw those characters away and move to the live servers.
They want the free to play servers to dominate gameplay. They want all new players to move there, because they can charge them more than 15$ a month that people on the current servers pay. The structure of the service screams it from every orifice.
The $200 yearly fee is MORE than $15 a month. The cash shop will be packed with items that don't exist on the other servers. Every little bit of the game will be an additional free. More character slots, more races, more classes, more items, more abilities, more stats, etc, etc. This is exactly what soe has been building up for this game for years.
This is soe giving up on the subscription servers, because it has only produced decline for the last many years. It isn't working and this is in no way an extended trial for the subscription servers. That is why they have chosen to allow players to copy/transfer OFF the subscription servers and not the other way around. This change is because the EQ2 player base isn't solid. That is why they were talking about merging servers... AGAIN.
Only you CAN'T "move to the new f2p servers" with your current characters. There are racial and class restrictions. And what veteran EQ2 player in their right mind would want to start over again on a f2p server when they have characters they have invested so much time in?
I understand that you hate EQ2...you and I get into this EVERY time there is a post about EQ2. So the logical thing for us to do would be to not argue with each other. You're never going to see the game from my perspective and I will never see it from yours. :)
I understand the limitations just fine and that you will be able to move characters to the free servers in the future.
Think about this though. If subscription players are given the choice to start from scratch on a server with healthy populations or stay on a dieing server, which will they chose? If you don't think it will happen, just go look at the SWG forums for proof that is does. Just look what happened to the EQ2 servers when they were given the change to migrate (paid or starting over).
Soe knows this and they have plenty of data to suggest how many people will make the move. Just as current players suggest new player start on AB or Crushbone, because that is where player density is. All the while the other servers are dieing off as a result of the migration.
Since your screen name says you just joined the forums two weeks ago and you have only posted a few dozen times, I don't see how we "always" get into it. Maybe you have another screen name, I don't know. If so, that just means I don't agree with your views, regardless of who you are.
You are spot-on Daffid011. $OE doesn't miss a trick when it comes to milking the playerbase. I am sure EQ2X will be much more cash shop centered than Turbine's F2P business model, which is why it has to have it own servers.
I was wondering if a EQ2X character could transfer to the subscription servers, but it looks like the transfers are only one-way, which doesn't surprise me.
Character transfers are one way only from P2P to F2P Servers, which basically means the death of EQ2 Classic as we know it.
People are all happy and giddy that they don't have to play with F2P players, but the reality is much grim. SOE is removing the Trial from EQ2 Classic, which means no more NEW players to try EQ2 Classic, the only thing they will keep is RAF, but honestly who will go around Forums asking for a RaF key and wait when they can just quickly create an account and log on to EQ2X?
EQ2 Classic will surely die now. There will be no bleedover unto the old servers and people that play on EQ2X will no want to start over on the old servers since they don't allow character transfers.
I suspect you are right and that is the plan of SOE. After they get as many people to pay for moves to the populated servers as they have done in their games, only then will they merge them all together. Of course they will spin this as doing the players a favor and saying this is what they wanted since everyone moved to the free to play servers.
LOL this one too, oh my. Seems all i see thesedays are the dying and failing games going F2P. Successful ones *cough*WoW*cough* so far have not gone this route, why should they, there still raking in teh money. Also that is the only successful one running (allbeit everyones pretty bored too), but there just simple is nothing else out there to even contend it. Which is a big pity. These days with the enhancements made in technology i would have thought we would have something better by now (over 5yrs of wow and we got nothing else to contend it) come on, dont we have any software writers thesedays.
If anyone in these forums saying it's a bad idea were in charge of SOE, it would fail harder. Yes SOE has had it ups and major downs. But I'll be damned if you say this is a horrible decision.
This is great they are letting us play alot of the game for free. If they wanted money then they would have made another expansion instead. I am proud of them and this direction, good for them. This will boost the population.
I made a trail account and loged into EQ2Extended. the new ui is awesome. So much better then original. Is it just me or did SoE made everyone run slower? Dor me it's good since in original EG2 it fels like characters were running too fast. They changed spell animations too.. the low lvl spells have much smaller animations they they used to. i hope at highr lvls they didn't change those animations.
As a HC raider in EQ2 yes this will affect us big time there will be less people coming to the old servers now for us to pull from.
And to the guy who said you cant level a toon from 1-80 in a week you are wrong we leveled my wifes toon from 1-90 with 240 aa in 8 days of grinding mind you that is not the norm.
This is a bad move by EQ in my mind for HC people but for casual and such or anyone just starting EQ i guess it will be alright.
But this is just making my move to FF just easier for me anyway now.
I have no problem with the game going Free 2 Play, its just how its being done. I would've liked if they had gone the same route as Turbine (no dead servers due to segregating P2P from F2P).
The only bad thing I see with Eq2X is that the trial accounts for Eq2 clasic is being discontinued. That means no more new blood for the old servers. All new players will be channeled into the F2P servers while the P2P servers languish. Kind of reminds me of what Runescape did to Runescape Classic. SoE needs to keep both trial accounts open to the public so players can choose F2P or P2P server when they make an account.
There's lots of reasons old players might migrate over to the F2P servers, even though it means rerolling, or paying $35 to copy a character. The primary one is server population. F2P will have a healthy population. And there will be plenty of people sitting at max level who want to run end game content. Another reason, their sub lapses for whatever reason. They decide to make a new character on the f2p server, 'cause hey, it might be limited, but you can still play. Third, peer pressure. Those friends you've always wanted to play, but never could get to commit to a sub. Well, they're playing now, but on the free server. You decide to reroll to experience low level content with them as they level.
See, if I can think of a few scenarios, so can others. And don't forget that the only infusion of new players on the old servers are going to be from RAF. I have nothing against RAF programs, but they're only good if you know people interested in playing and actually staying. They're completely useless for those people just looking for something else to play, but have no one they know playing. EQ2 literally thrives on those "walk-ins" currently. But every single one of those people will be going to the F2P servers now.
Frankly, anyone who says that this server split doesn't affect them is incredibly shortsighted. And the ones essentially saying they don't want F2P trash playing on their servers are both shortsighted AND elitist
Im gona check htis out for sure, always like EQ2 but not enough to sub and commit time to it. My main game is Darkfall so will be nice change of pace every now and then to play a good PVE game.
The success of WoW is the problem. Everyone is trying to make another WoW that's not exactly WoW, and nobody can nail how to do it. Technology has nothing to do with it, since the issue is mainly game design.
Me, I don't think there's need for another WoW. WoW never impressed me. I tried it just a little, but I liked EQ2 better when I played it. WoW has wide appeal, but that doesn't mean it's the best game for everyone. There's certainly a place for a lot of other games targetting other audiences.
The F2P model worked well for DDO, bringing in more money, which can be turned into further development (and saves the game from dying). I can hope this works for EQ2, too. Someone complained that money is taken from P2P to develop F2P, and that's true, but if EQ2 follows DDO, there will be more money from F2P, and that will help development of both F2P and P2P (since they share content). I agree that in the long run pure P2P will likely die, but chances are the game will still have more money and will get more development.
My first thought was that P2P trials won't matter since people will prefer to try F2P anyway, but on second thought there might be a place for them for people who tried F2P and want to try more than the F2P basic levels offer. On the other hand a better solution would be to allow trials of features (such as get a race you want for a few days for free, then pay for it if you want to keep it, or get one week access to the brokers).
By the way, I wonder how frequent the "frequent upgrade reminders" will be. If such pop-ups appear during combat, or even just several times in a session, that'd be pretty annoying.
I'd personally rather see F2P on Live or some plan that will funnel them to Live, otherwise the Live servers are going to die off. People will not 'test' to level X then decide to transfer at a cost to them to the Live servers off of Extended - it's foolish to think that will happen.
Maybe that is the long term goal, push everyone to the F2P model with RMT, then say so Sony.
The current membership matrix is fine, as it will hopefully bring in some much needed fresh blood to the game, while giving a variety of playing styles/options to the player base. Separating it into two different games though - major mistake.
I'd actually prefer the Platinum one on Live to get the extra character slots.
At least we'll always have the option not to play/pay :)
Not really directly at you. No names being named...
But yeah $200 is kind of a rip off. Making MMORPG's is like stealing candy from a baby. We will give it to them and we will come back for more so we get some different kind of candy.
So they CAN run two versions of a game. They said they couldn't do that in the case of SWG.
I'm glad for the change though. If it's free I might play it a bit. EQ2 though always seemd boring to me though, maybe because I never got beyond the first 30 levels and kept replaying the early content over and over.
We DO "always" get into it. This is girlgeek. I left these forums over dealing with people like you all the time that absolutely must INSIST that they KNOW ALL and can predict the future, and over being sick to death of reading "WoW this," "WoW that," every two minutes.
Fact of the matter being....you have NO CLUE what is going to happen in the future and neither do I....therefore.... I don't care to argue with you about this. I've already said that. But if you are reeeeeeally just wanting to argue....let's take it off this site and do it via email where we can both say what we really think, capiche?
I don't think you own a crystal ball into the future. YOU might think you do, but I do not.
So if you just LOATHE all things SoE so much.....why are you always trolling the EQ2 forums? I just have to know the answer to that one. And if you do play the game....why?? Why do you play it? You hate everything they do, no matter what. I don't understand you....LOL!
Anyhow....I'm not going to argue with you. You think you know the future, and....I think you don't. So we can just, as USUAL....agree to disagree.
But you do have to admit that over time people will slowly leave the game for greener pastures, don't you? This leads to how can the old servers capture new players? RaF simply won't cut it.
My only concern regarding the F2P is how SOE just decided to close the Trial on P2P servers and instead channel new players to the F2P experience instead of the 14 day trial. I personally think that 14 days to try a game is more than enough to make up someone's mind if they really want to invest in a game or not.
Personally, I would've prefered if they had just created F2P servers that any EQ2 Classic subscriber could access to it (without having to pay for EQ2X as well), also allowing F2P subscriber folks the chance to see on their list the old servers so that we might entice them, they wouldn't be able to transfer their characters from a F2P to a P2P server but at least it would give folks that started with EQ2X, a chance to move on to EQ2 more easily instead of having to worry about 2 subscriptions and which one to cancel.
In end my concern is not so much about F2P or P2P but how will the old EQ2 be able to get new players, because folks that might invest on their character in a F2P won't be willing to cancel EQ2X sub and move to EQ2 if the process isn't simple enough or if there aren't good incentives.
TL;TR, in short they could've just added the F2P servers to the same list as the older servers and apply the same restrictions they apply to the Exchange servers regarding character transfers.
So is this overloaded or just not working? Or was this another misdirect we aren't understanding?
If you’re a current subscriber, and you’d like to take a peek at “EverQuest II Extended” on its new Test server, you can jump into the game at the Free membership level by clicking here and streaming down the game client you’ll need. (http://launch.soe.com/eq2x/) This is the Alpha version of the service and its currently only available to existing subscribers so you can see it for yourselves before the public sees it later. The beta launch of the EQ2X service will occur in mid-August.
lotro is not actually giving you levels 26-50 for free, you have to purchase the questpacks from level 25 on in order to progress to end game. they are however letting you buy the classes from the end game expansion to play from level 1 and they are giving you the storyline quests but those are NOT enough xp to level your character to 50 by themselves. Also, if you are on a F2P account (non vip) you have to buy your mount with money (points) but you can learn to ride and buy a mount at level 8 which is nice.
And THAT is why most veteran EQ2 paid subscribers are NOT going to be willing to make any such drastic move. Unless, of course, they are unguilded (pretty uncommon in veteran players) and are not raiders and have no long term investments in the groups and guilds they presently play with. AND....they would also have to be the kind of gamer that doesn't mind an item shop with game play affecting stats items. And they would also have to not MIND losing all the status they have accumulated, both personal and guild status....I think players that fit a combination of all those things....are going to be very few and far between.
If you still doubt what I'm saying here....read the very last paragraph in fine print at the very bottom UNDER the subscription matrix:
http://everquest2.com/_themes/default/images/extended/membershipMatrix.jpg
You still think veteran players are going to transfer over to EQ2X in droves?? ROFL
I had no idea who you were, so don't get all upset with me because you chose to hide behind a new screenname as if I should somehow know who you are. Also, I can't help that you feel the need to take everything to such a personal level when discussing a game that it has such a large impact on you. Fine if you don't want to discuss the topic, but please stop trying make this a discussion about the people posting their opinions. I don't need to justify to you how or why I play a game and frankly I'm tired of you trying to twist discussions into that. It will not change the information that is being presented.
That being said, I can't see the future, I don't know it all and I am just expressing my opinion the same as you are. However I think that enough information does exist to give a good impression of where things are heading and the intention of those changes. Such as SOE discontinuing free 14 trials to the legacy servers and only allowing transfers off the legacy servers.
It doesn't take a crystal ball to realize that if a company discontinues the primary method of a server attracting new players and combines that with only allowing players to trasnfer away that it will have an overall negative effect on the server populations. I'm not sure what is so unbelievable about that or how someones personal views would make that untrue.
Combine that with players and developers alike talking about the low populations on some servers that resulted in the developres planning to merge servers I think it places the current servers in an already risky state before they start losing the ability to attract new players. I'm sorry, but I do think there are plenty of clues to suggest how things will turn out.
I can't see paying 15 dollars a month, but I don't mind the account upgrade and occasional expansion pack. Depending on how much the classes/races cost I might be willing to buy one or two to do something different.
wait until the new servers start growing in population.
above all, people want to be in an active server so entire guilds are going to take "such a drastic move" when the legacy server becomes stagnant and the other one grows.
perhaps not in a month or two but give it 6 months or a year.
Players in SWG did and also EQ2 before transfers. In an mmo I think most people find it more important to play with healthy populations than to keep what they have.
It may not happen in droves or be an ideal situation, but if that is how reality presents itself then I think people will make that choice the same as they have in the past.
OMG Quote wars!
Lost me on this thread.
QFT!
What about > > EVERQUEST I < < ? Will it take the same system?
[1]
Perhaps hiding was a bad choice of words on my part, sorry. As I said, I had no idea who you were, why you have a new name or anything beyond you just being a new poster here.
[2]
I find it very ... odd ... that you have complaints about the negativity level of others on this site. I'll just leave it at that.
[3]
Here is where I have a big disagreement with you. The entire premise of your complaint is that no one is reading anything, they are not logical, butt hurt from past actions or various other personal flaws that you have diagnosed them with. You seem to ignore the information being presented in favor of critiquing the people who are posting that information.
Has it ever occured to you that maybe people have read the fine print. That people have made these types of migrations before as has pointed out already. You want to paint everyone who doesn't agree with you as some aimless know nothings who want to be mean just for the sake of being mean, but maybe there is more to it than you choose to see.
I've seen the fine print and I have personally seen people give everything up on their characters just so they can move to a server that actually has players on it. Try asking warhammer online players how many times they have rolled on a new server, or swg players who started fresh on bria when it was the only high population server or how much they lost when the transfer service killed most of their belongings right now. People were doing it in EQ2 before the transfer service. I see no reason to believe they will not do it again if facing the same situations.
See the difference in viewpoints? You say that those who don't view this the way you do have no information to point to, but there is. You making this discussion personal and attacking those who don't agree with you doesn't make your opinion valid.
To answer your last question, is this possibly a good thing? For new servers I'm guessing it will be. However I can not find a way to view this as a good thing for old servers. They are effectively being denied access to new players. The barrier to join an old server was raised and there is no way to turn that into a positive. Don't believe me? Go read some forums and see what other players are saying and tell me if you think it is a smear campaign.
This change is nothing more than an end around move to put a full blown cash shop into the subscription game. Call it doomsaying if you want to, but the same thing was said during station exchange, legends of norath, station cash, etc etc.
I see it as a revised attempt in the same vein as the NGE. This time it is designed to play it safe though. They want to access a new playerbase. Instead of throwing the baby out with the bathwater this time - they will run both and see which does better. At that time though, I expect there to be subtle (and some not so much) changes in the favor of the winning version. The other will receive less and less attention. Until finally, it goes to life support.
This is the SOE way as demonstrated by several of their earliest endeavors. And EQ2 was the perfect pick to try out their new F2P battleplan. By heading in this direction, they assume that they will be pioneers in the F2P market and strike gold. There is a chance that it is possible to do so. It depends on their level of support, the soundness of their planning and code and the complete lack of eratic decision making on the system itself. The ball is in SOE's hands.
****
All that being said, my money is on it launching, them getting a good wiff of a cash flow and then going overboard creating an inbalance for those who play. The original EQ sees less support and small bits of the new concepts filter into the old servers. At some point, the old servers are brought on board out of the reasoning that they cannot (and see the historical context for this statement elsewhere) support 2 code bases on their programming staff.
At best they may leave like 2 servers then in old school mode for a fee and with the expectation of no additional upgrades or technical support.
****
The enclosed text above is my opinion based upon previosu acts by SOE. You will note that in the 2nd paragraph of this post - I do give the bright side of the move and that their is a chance that SOE won't screw its existing players. That though is up to SOE and I will gladly return to this post if they actually change established patterns of behavior and have learned from their mistakes.
Well I guess time will tell then. In my opinion, which, regardless of what you believe, is just as "valid" as yours, particularly since I've been actually playing the game for five years.....Station Exchange, LoN, and SC....while vehemently bitched about when each of them began.....have not been a bad thing. As a matter of fact, myself and a lot of others happen to enjoy LoN and the SC options we have on the paid servers. Station Exchange, just as SoE said, affected no one other than the people that wanted an optional pay to win system. Station Exchange has been around for years and it STILL affects no one on the paid servers, just as SoE said it wouldn't.
From my viewpoint....from IN the game....SoE continues to provide a larger variety of OPTIONS than any other game on the market. Whether it's race options, class options, quest options, crafting options, collection options, housing options, or subscription options. One thing that EQ2 players are not short on, in comparison to other games, is OPTIONS. For me....I have found that to end up being a GOOD THING every single time. Yes, even after all the whining people have done each and every single time there has been a change.
As far as the rest of your response....you and I just really don't have much to talk about, but that's certainly not from us not trying to talk about things anyway, and for that consideration....I thank you. But it really boils down to the fact that you think what you think and I think what I think, and never the twain shall meet. We don't even interpret the very same words we READ the same way. So....there's really not any point in me continuing to butt heads with you. You will continue to project gloom and doom, and I will continue to think otherwise UNLESS....I see ACTUAL doom and gloom come to pass. Honestly....for it to be "doom and gloom" for the game, in my opinion, it would require a complete shutting down of the entire game. I don't foresee that happening any time soon.
I apologize to you for being very zealous and maybe somewhat hyper-sensitive in our conversations about all this. However, I think that's pretty much a trademark of a gamer that has found a game they really truly enjoy and constantly having to contend with the game being maligned from every single angle by other people. It just begins to grate on the nerves after a while. I suspect people that enjoy and play WoW can probably relate to my feelings about that, as they deal with it constantly.
Oh and on the negativity thing....I tend to respond to negativity with a certain amount of vitriol. I think that maybe makes me appear to BE negative a lot of the time, however....I'm never the one STARTING the rolling thunder of negative and mean-spirited banter, but I AM usually not one to just blow it off and let someone continue without getting my two words (or 500) in on the topic. And for that....I don't apologize. My interpretations, thoughts, and ideas about things are just as valid as the next persons. And that...applies to all of us on these boards...you, me, and everyone else.
So....I'm just going to kick back now and ride out this storm of SoE hate...won't be the first time I've heard it all....and go back to playing the game I've spent two days arguing about HERE. The game is a LOT more fun than reading what every Tom, Dick, and Harry THINKS about it, when half (or more) of them don't even play it.
Thanks for the reply J1O.
Some things I wanted to touch on. First, you say the LON, Station Cash/exchange have not been bad things. That might be true from your personal experiences . They might be enjoyable aspects of the game for your playtime and thats fine.
However, seeing the overall condition the game is in, the companies revenue situation forcing layoffs again, merging servers across the board and highly questionable reputation I think is has caused harm. All of those changes have caused people to leave. They have caused players to distrust the company and leave more and more promises being broken by the company. Content releases are getting smaller, more unfinished and farther apart when it was said that these new revenues from cash shops would help increase development. In the end everything has declined since their inception. While you personally might enjoy it, the overall effect has not been positive.
One thing about station exchange. It doesn't effect the other servers not due to an soe promise, but because players protested so much soe had to change it to new servers only. Yes it was originally announced to go live onto all the existing servers. Soe only changed that in response to player outcry. This has significance, because it marks the last time soe ever went to players first while developing these systems to look for their input.
As for your enjoyment of the game, cool, but hat doesn't change the realities of the situations. Enjoying a game doesn't have any effect on the current servers being stripped of their ability to attract new players with free trials or needing mergers. Loving a game doesn't negate the choice a company has made to only allow players to only to move away from the servers and not migrate to those servers.
You seem to be "arguing" from the emotional standpoint of your enjoyment as if that can somehow alter what is being done or change the facts of the situation. Bringing up how many quests and options the game has doesn't alter what is being removed from the live servers. This isn't a discussion of how fun the game is.
The graphics engine in EQII blows though. Need a crazy good computer to max settings and even then it doesn't look that good at all.
I used to play it on my HP laptop and it ain't all that great almost 4 yrs old now. You must have one shitty computer from the early 90's...
I played EQ2 in open beta, bought the game and played in a guild of about 10 for well over a year and had a lot of great fun but just got bored of it after a while, it always seemed to grindy for me, but then our guild more or less broke up and I decided to go to WOW with a bunch of my friends instead ofp laying by myself on eq2.
I ended up staying a year over there too and got stuck grinding by myself there too after most of my friends had already maxed leveled out and quit. I've been back now and then resubbed here and there to check out new expansions and such but I always end up grinding alone and don't know anyone who plays it so I get bored with it and quit again. same thing happened with my 500 man guild in swg and the 100man guild in wow. I play these games to play with family and friends and if no one i know plays them I don't stay for the most part.
Now i'm unsubbed fm champions, trek and as of today only have a single wow acct where my sister/bro in law and son and few others play in a small guild. I might try out eq2 again on a f2p server but can't say i'll stay or not...
What we have is a new game. EQ2-Extended while its the same client it has a huge cash shop. Meanwhile any toons created on the Extended servers will not be allowed to change to current servers.
So saying that, the current servers will not get any new players, what do you think is going to happen. Yea the current servers are going to slowly die off and have to be merged.
This is another company who looking at one thing, cash. At the expense of its vet players.
I'm still trying to figure out what makes people think that some players won't sign up on the f2p servers, decide they really LIKE the game, and want to start over on the paid servers, so as to not have a stats-based pay to win marketplace? If it were ME....and I started playing a free to play game that I could see I really ENJOYED....and let's say I got to level 20 or so and decided....you know, I really like this game...I think I'd like to play on more equal footing where people can't buy their way to the top....I would start over on the paid servers.
NO...you can't TRANSFER your character from the free to play server, BUT...you CAN reroll on the paid servers and get the REAL EQ2 experience. So....why is it people are just so sure that won't be a choice that some new players make? Particularly in the case of seasoned MMO players that might decide to TRY EQ2X, end up liking it, but NOT liking the marketplace options, the racial limitations, class limitations, gold earning limitations, etc.....THOSE people are likely going to want to come on over to a paid server and start a new character. As long as it takes to level to max level in EQ2, do you honestly THINK you won't know LONG before then if you like the game?
I think this will still bring new players to the game. But of course....my opinion isn't popular around here....so I'm sure I'll be dogged for it, yet again. ROFL....what the fuck EVER.
Its just a shame that the "free" classes are all, in my view anyway, the boring uninteresting ones. I love playing a ranger, and the warden or Fury were favourites too, yet they are all "pay".
Free Classes: Swashbuckler, Brigand, Wizard, Warlock, Guardian, Berserker, Templar, and Inquisitor.
http://www.arksark.org/blog/3691/everquest-2-reveals-eq2-extended/
Because SOE has already merged standard servers into the exchange servers and left players stranded. Dealing with SOE is a fool me once shame on you, but fool me twice shame on me situation.
I still think it's a poor way to implement free to play. I've played EQ2 since launch and for most of the past 4 years I've had 2 subbed accounts, so I do like EQ2 and think it's a great game. I just think the "powers that be" at SOE make a LOT of bad calls and this is just another one of them.
Honestly I don't think that many will re-roll if they like the game, unless they really like it and have enough free time to dismiss their previous time investment and start again on a paid server.
This option just further segregates the EQ2 community and isolates the new players from the existing.
Honestly I agree with your mind set, I would be how I would react should a try a free to play game and enjoy it... but I feel I'm an exception, not the norm. I just don't see the justification of keeping the free to play section from the regular servers... the RMT/microtransaction I want kept well away from the regular server, I still resent the "marketplace".
Lets look at some of the reasons why players might not want to move from the free servers to the subscription servers.
If the current servers are not attacting quantities of new players right now with the free trial I don't see many reasons why raising the cost of moving there and decreasing the value of those servers will result in more players opting to do that.
I'm curious what incentives new players might find to give up everything and start over on the legacy servers. There doesn't seem to be many reasons to do so.
I have to admit my subscription just ran out for EQ2 and I'm hesitant to resubscribe knowing EQ2X arrives mid-August. I could just start a new character for free with all entitlements up through SF. I've been playing off and on since beta so it's no small thing to ditch my characters, but on the other hand I never have to pay SOE again if I start over. I'm just a casual player anyway so I don't care about what's offered on the cash shop and don't play to compete with others. Makes me think people are right on about the damage this will cause to the EQ2 servers. I imagine most casual players like me would prefer not to pay since having the latest gear, leveling the fastest, or raiding/grouping with important cash shop items just isn't my playstyle, eliminating the need for cash shop purchases or a subscription.
This is all assuming far too much into why someone might or might not do something.
If someone isn't into cash shops why would they play on a free server?
Why not go ahead and make a few assumptions on that as well?
In the end it really doesn't matter, if they fail in offering this F2P service, they fail. IF they succeed, they succeed. We'll have to wait and see.
Edit: Nevermind, I misunderstood Daffid's post.
Reason for the "Crazy" computer is the way the engine was written. Back then... processor speeds were still climbing. Graphics cards had just started getting "Beefy" and the EQ devs assumed that processors would continue to get faster and faster, so they built the game around that princple.
Sadly, processors didnt continue to grow, instead the number of processors did. So instead of having one big monster processor, we have a bunch of smaller ones.
Funny thing is, you get an old school 4ghz P4 and a Geforce 3 and EQ2 runs badass. Get a quad core I7 and it will run... its just not going to take advantage of all your system has to offer.
The engine was specifically designed at release not to use video cards, so soe's specualtion about CPUs getting bigger is really a moot point. That alone ensured that the game would never benefit from video card advances which is a dumb choice for a game that was aiming for cutting edge graphics. All these choices were done in an attempt to make the game playable on low end budget machines, which at the time lacked decent video cards.
Making a game with cutting edge graphics for people with budget computers isn't very smart. If it was that easy, everyone would be doing it.
I've been playing EQ2 off and on since release. I'm very casual about my play. I love EQ2. I like the stories and different dungeons. I recently just canceled and was pretty much done b/c I wand to play DCUO and TOR later so the money would be tapped out. This news actually made me jump for joy (in a manly way) cause I could keep playing. The only thing I plan on picking up is the Dark Elf race pack. None of the classes are truely my type but I can live with a warlock since its free. (I actually have 750SC on my account already.) So I'm pretty positive. And reading SOE forums, looks like once the shock was over people are starting to see some benefits. Even some vets are thinking of switching to platinum...so in the end, looks like SOE plan is working.
I would probably be mad about the spell level cap but I never remember what the new rank names mean so I'll save that anger for when I get killed by a rabid bunny.
And as a note...There are some ticked off Vanguard people. They want their game to go F2P.
What in the world is so great about EQ2 going free to play.
The new servers will have limited racial selection, limited class selection. They will also have a gold cap. Nothing above treasured can they ever equip. You no mythical for them. And least but last even if you want to you can no, and I repeat can not transfer to the current live servers. It will cost you more a month or multi month than our current live servers.
So saying that, how is this supposed to help the current servers. Having two separate set of servers. Nobody can explain to me how this helps the current legacy sets of servers?
Somebody come up with a good reason as to how this helps eq2, and its current server set?
That is a lot of nonsense. You can't design a game to not use the graphics card. You can of course rely on the cpu to do more work which is what they did. When EQ II came out it only ran on the high end computers to start with. They lost a lot of subscribers to Wow mainly because many of them could not run EQ II acceptably on their computers. It was just like Vanguard at release, you needed a powerful PC just to run it. Then it took them over a year to get the bugs out and get decent performance.
Leave it to SOE to completely fubar the introduction of f2p servers. All they had to do was look at how Turbine did it with DDO and do something similar. What they are introducing is just messed up and they will lose a lot of subscribers because of it.
Smedley's hand is all over this. The man can turn gold into lead like no one else.
SOE couldnt very well allow the freebs on the legacy servers. The vets have made it pretty clear they will not accept game breaking items in their cash shop. SOE has chosen instead to slowy kill the legacy servers and keep collecting sub fees for as long as they can and by the time the original servers are dead they are hopefull that the F2P servers will be making some money. No crystal ball, no inside information its just the only thing that makes any sense as to why the are doing it the way they are.
1st...You can write code so that it does not use the graphics card to render graphics. Google it cause its basic programming...well, more like junior college level.
The F2P program will do well. The only negative is broker access which I think they will change soon after it goes live if the playerbase groans enough.
Oh really? My server was merged with the Station Exchange servers? When did that happen? Five minutes ago? Because uhm....I've been playing all day and I never noticed that all the servers are now Exchange servers....lol. Last I checked there were STILL only TWO exchange servers. Been that way for YEARS now. Do you know what you're talking about at ALL? No.
Sorry I should have been more specific. The original EQ2 engine was designed from the start to intentionally not to use the processing power of video cards. All the graphics were rendered on the CPU which just bogged the game down ever more. A monster video card or a budget card really made no difference and still don't. The game relied (and still primarily does) on the megahurtz speed of a single CPU.
I know it makes no sense to design a game with cutting edge graphics and exclude the processing power of the graphics card, but that is exactly what happened. It is central to the problems of the games performance to this day. The game engine does almost nothing with multiple CPU cores or graphics cards.
Don't bother.
There are so many restrictions you are better off paying a subscription than playing on the F2P server.
Exactly. And this is why most people that end up LIKING the game enough to BUY IT...will LEAVE the EQ2X servers and START OVER on the paid servers. They will NOT LIKE the restrictions. But I'm just speculating here....like everyone else. Time will tell.
Again...only my opinion, and as you can see from all the people that think this is going to just TRAUMATIZE the regular servers....my opinion is not very popular, and not considered logical by some. All I can say is....if it were ME and my first exposure was to EQ2X and I liked the game enough to buy it to rid myself of all the restrictions that are present even at platinum level....I would HAPPILY leave EQ2X and start over as an EQ2 player.
I guess some folks just think most gamers are WAY TOO LAZY to go to all that "trouble." Whatever. Oh yeah...the other thing that seems to make some people consider my opinion illogical is that...."zomg the population is so much higher on the new servers." Oh really? Well...WoW is a good argument in my favor for that. Having a large population doesn't necessarily make playing more fun or pleasant. The regular servers have a stable mid-range population. I would rather play in that kind of atmosphere than the kind you tend to get with larger and larger crowds. If I had the choice to play on a crowded WoW server, or a mid-pop EQ2 server....my decision would be VERY easy.
This change is all about soe putting full blown cash shops into EQ2, not about going free to play. That is why they have effectively said they are not going to support the growth of the old server by removing the free trial there and by only allowing people to go away from those servers with copies to the new EQ2X servers. It is a squeeze play to get old players to cave into agreement for cash shops one way or another. Soe "heard you loud and clear"... so this is what they get.
SOE is going to make whatever changes are necessary to promote the servers with cash shops. Make no mistake that this is what soe is counting on. They do not want a subscription only game anymore. They want subscription + mega cash shop game and that is the goal they will be pushing. One way or another that is how all the servers are going to end up.
It is possible that masses of people will suddenly try EQ2 for free, enjoy it enough to purchase the game and then start over from scratch on a completely different server. We live in a world were anything is possible I guess. Seeing that people can do that right now without having to lose characters and transfer to new servers, I fail to see how this would suddenly change by allowing people to get involved in another server with more options. Possible, sure. Probably, not likely.
@shenny2001
On the EQ2X servers, your characters will always be available to play regardless of if you subscribe or not. You don't get that on the legacy servers, but I do agree with you that the extended susbcription restrictions are to restrictive.
Must be nice living in an alternate universe. Google "everquest 2 benchmark" or "everquest 2 review" to learn some more about the game's graphical performance in the early days. EQ2 specifically made use of features of high end cards of the time (though you could turn them off).
http://kriegshauser.blogspot.com/2008/09/eqii-getting-multicore-support-wait.html
There is a reason the EQ2 devs talk about CPU's and how much of a dramatic effect it has on the framerate of the game as seen in that link above. The game was coded to push the majority of the game onto the cpu and underutilize GPUs. Thats just how the eq2 team designed the game. I'm being a bit over the top by saying all, but it still stands true of how the game engine works and what it doesn't fully utilize.
Here is what Rothgar said about game performance (emphasis mine)
Frames per second - FPS indicates the number of 'frames' processed by your client per second. A frame is a complete loop through the game cycle. This includes receiving/sending network messages, processing game data and drawing what you see on the screen. The higher the number the better. Your FPS is affected mostly by your graphic quality settings and the speed of your computer hardware. Setting the graphics to lower settings should improve your frame rate. Specifically, the settings that seem to have the biggest affect on frame rate are shadows, and particle effects. EQ2 is a very cpu-intensive game, more so than the graphics card. So if you're looking for ideas to improve your hardware, upgrading your CPU will probably give you the biggest increase in performance over purchasing a very expensive video card.
You're just a late comer to the game. You'll notice that the quotes are from 2008. The game came out in 2004. At the time the graphics card mattered. Since then graphics card performance has gone up a lot more than CPU performance, making it less rewlevant. That still doesn't make the claim that all rendering is done on the CPU true.
It sounds from the post about multicore support that the game doesn't take advantage of vertex shaders very well. It would still use a lot of pixel power, and that certainly is GPU dependent (but as said, even low end current CPU's have more pixel power than high end card of old).
I haven't followed the updates of EQ2 that closely, but I'm surprised that there hasn't been a graphical update to take advantage of new technologies.
Yeah, I am a real late comer to EQ2. Thats it.
That's settled, then. :) Just make sure you don't make exaggerated claims in the future.
Yeah you totally got me. I quoted the devs talking in 2008 about the CPU dependancy of the game for framerate performance. Obviously soe changed the engine after releasing the game to not fully utilize the GPU and instead push the work onto the CPU.
I'm convinced now, thanks.
Gameplay, graphics and animation in EQ2 felt dated 3 years ago to me.
I'm not shy to pay monthly fee if I like the game. F2P never appealed to me, free trials for P2P are quite enough.
I REALLY dislike "free-to-play" system.
I guess my previous explanation wasn't clear enough, so I'll try to make it clearer.
The game used the CPU and GPU fully, and more than that, in 2004. Suppose the game was designed for a CPU and GPU twice as fast as available at a time. By 2008, GPU's were perhaps 10 times faster and a single core of a CPU was 1.5 times faster. So that top end GPU was 5 times faster than the game needed while the CPU wasn't yet fast enough.
The figures above may not be entirely accurate, but they should give you a general idea how a game which taxed both graphics cards (when not run on low settings) and CPU could become CPU bound.
Oh I understood what you were saying. Massive increase is video card technology, not so much advancement in terms of single core CPU speed. Result, game still suffers performance issues after 6 years despite massive video card advancement.
Hmmm... I wonder why that is...
Lets see what the developers have to say about the EQ2 engine.
Thanks for the quotes regarding the graphics engine updates. They make it clear that not only was the game designed to take advantage of the graphics cards available at the time, which couldn't do much, but was updated since to take advantage of even more modern cards and take some load off the CPU.
I don't know what you're saying "All those shadows, lighting, animations... all getting put onto the CPU" after you quote a change putting the shadows on the GPU.
EQ2 is a CPU bound game. It murdered the hell out of my 5780, mainly because it barely used it (heat temp programs showed my gpu barely heating up from its idle core temp).
EQ2 has a truly terrible engine by modern standards and that's a real shame because under all that code there might be a good game.
I just want to add that my problem is mainly with you saying things like "The engine was specifically designed at release not to use video cards" and "The original EQ2 engine was designed from the start to intentionally not to use the processing power of video cards. All the graphics were rendered on the CPU which just bogged the game down ever more. A monster video card or a budget card really made no difference and still don't. The game relied (and still primarily does) on the megahurtz speed of a single CPU."
So first of all, you're exaggerating with "designed not to use video cards". You might say that it was designed for weak video cards, but to say it was designed not to use GPU's at all is obviously an exaggeration. I also think you're misinterpreting what "intended for powerful CPUs and weak graphics cards" means. What this means is that graphics cards at the time the game was designed and written were weak compared to the CPU's. The game was designed to take good advantage of both CPU's and GPU's of the time, which meant that much of the work was put on the CPU simply because GPU's were comparatively weak (in particular, had much more limited programmability compared to current ones).
You're right in that by the time the game arrived on the market there were already much better cards which it didn't take full advantage of, and it took long years to move just part of the CPU processing to the GPU. But your assertion that "A monster video card or a budget card really made no difference" is incorrect according to this benchmark, at least -- a GeForce 6600 GT was much slower than the more powerful cards cards.
because we were talking about how the game was ORIGINALLY designed. Also, if you had actually read the links you would see that these changes only affect certain systems and even then only certain portions of those graphics. The bulk is still rendered on the CPU even after this change.
I'm not sure how you can read the developers specifically stating that the game pushed the majority of the games graphic functions on the CPU and then conclude that the game was designed to utilize graphics cards. You question what reality I live in?
I guess I am not the only one who is exaggerating in this thread. Sure I exaggerated slightly, but what I said was true to the point of being trivial to argue about. I don't think the same can be said about your claims, because they are not even close to the reality of how the game did/does work.
When you say that the game took full advantage of the GPU in 2004 you are so far from any truth that it isn't even a believable statement. Even though the developers have specifically said the game doesn't you want to hold onto that claim?
Ok then, lets look at your smoking gun benchmark link to see just how much the EQ2 engine "fully used GPUs in 2004": Just looking at the single video cards from the benchmark
The identical test system benchmarks for Doom3 in the same resolution
The identical test system benchmarks for Doom3 in the same resolution
So based on your information I will amend my comments
"The engine was specifically designed at release not to use video cards" and "The original EQ2 engine was designed from the start to intentionally not to use almost none of the processing power of video cards. Almost all the graphics were rendered on the CPU which just bogged the game down ever more. A monster video card or a budget card really made almost no difference and still doesn't"
You guys have talent when it's about going off topic and derailing threads. Thread is about the F2P service, not about the game's performance.
Honestly I never found EQ2 appealing.
Even on those rare occasions when SoE offered a free moths or two i struggled to stay logged in more than two days.
I don't see how the f2p option will bring someone like me back to a game i found below average at best.
You're right. While I'd love to show Daffid011 the error of his ways, it's probably a good idea that we stop that. Maybe we could take it elsewhere.
I don't think F2P is for people like you. It's perhaps partly for people like me, who felt that the game has some nice things about it, but paying $15 a month isn't justified. I could spend some time in the game for free, and I can even see myself paying some money for features.
Mostly I think it's meant to draw in new players. For many people F2P is a better model than trials because it doesn't require quick commitment to pay.