So I come back form a 4 month ban (long story) and started posting on official forum.

One of the threads I start is

Quote:
The excessive focus on maturity is immature !!!!!

Youth is not a disease !!!

Grow up !!!

I intended to start discussing maturity because the game is supposed to be for "mature people", and it's full of people who call everyone immature kids.

Also, the phrase "wow is full of kids, AoC is mature" has been heard a million times.

But I think it goes to far, caring so much about being mature IS immature, mature people get along fine with kids you know?

ANYWAY. 3 minutes after posting that, here the message I got

Dear SirPaco,

You have received an infraction at Age of Conan Europe Forums.

Reason: Spam
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Spamming is posting the same thing several times, or posting without any real content. "Bumping" (posting to move a thread up on the forum list) and cross-posting (posting the same thread in several forums) are examples of spam.
-------

This infraction is worth 1 point(s) and may result in restricted access until it expires. Serious infractions will never expire.

Do you really feel it was spam? lol

What about the "hug thread" where everyone gives each other hugs (for 9 PAGES?????) what about the "3 word game" where everyone adds 3 words to previous 3 words posted???? (12 pages)

Now, obviously, questioning moderation on official forums is not tolerated. I don't know if it's tolerated to question another game's moderation on these forums (I didn't read the rules and before you go there, no one reads the rule you know?) but can we maybe discuss this problem?

The main issue is that the moderation is done by volonteers. That means that they are players, do you think it is normal?

I am pissed !

On what underforum did you post? Off topic?

And let me guess; those "hugs" are posted on Off topic right?

Just make sure you post in the right forum also when posting.

Calling the mods "noobs" because one of them banned you is a pretty big sign that we shouldn't be taking you seriously on the topic of maturity.

You might trying sending a PM to Famine on these forums (mmorpg.com) to see if he will look into it. If you want the matter looked into.

I posted in General :)

hug etc threads I spoke about are on Aquilonina and Fury related forum (which is general, but specific to a server)

Also, I didn't get banned, it was first day of posting after a ban! Just got warned, but omg still..

Finally, I won't bother with pm Famine, don't think he can do anything...

About the mods though, since 2 days, they seem to be less active. For months before though, the Fury forum was DEAD because only threads there were either closed down or removed entirely. 

No one wanted or even dared to post anything anymore.

Funcom uses those forums more for propoganda and advertising than information so unless you post positive information expect to be censored.

There is some negative slant on those forums, but considering how disappointing the game is the mods are miracle workers over there at censoring...is even easier now that so many peoples subscriptions ran out and they don't have to deal with new posters.

On a side note....how were you able to deal with subscribing to AOC for 4 months? you lose a bet? ;p

First, what forum were you posting in? Second outside of calling people immature what was your point going to be? It's not a good idea to start your first day back from a long ban, with something some mods would view as flamebaiting. Whether you were or not I can't say. That's for them to decide, but you have to understand where your topic could be viewed in such a way. Especially with how you worded your opening post.

LOL the part that caught my eye was the "SPAM" "No real content" part.I wish developers had to abide by that rule :D

I could come home drunk from a bar and have a more creative mind for content than probably 90% of the developers out there.

As to the topic about maturity.I think the op is taking too much of a defensive stance,yes maturity DOES matter and A LOT at that.It is not an aim towards age at all,one example that comes to mind was when i was playing RFO/RF? i think that's the initials lol,anyhoot i was hanging around with this player for quite a while ,a very mature minded player,no goofing off ,very serious person.I was shocked to find out he was only 14,i was like holy crap,he acted more mature than many adults i have gamed with.

My point is that do not automatically assume someone is relating immaturity to age.Geesh if i had to i could probably post some 50+ people in you tube that shows how extremely immature they are.Immaturity is such a big factor that i quit WOW about 2 days after release when i bought the game,it really bothered me that much.

The VERY little immaturity i witnessed in MANY years of FFXI,was more or less frustration with players than them actually being so immature it bothered me.When i play MMORPG's i have two goals in mind ,to play something relaxing and thoughtful.

I should imagine Funcom is enforcing a strict code of censorship, probably as more and more posters are pointing out the negatives of AoC and fewer are pointing out the positives (Due to the negatives growing with each patch as the positives diminish). As there are more posters being negative (with good reason) they're balancing the forums which is alot easier than say fixing bugs in siege warfare (which after 18 months they've failed to do in my opinion). So just delete enough naughty posts in order that there are more positive ones with a few token disgruntled posts that aren't to inflamitory.

However this is Funcoms right, they may do as they please with their forums and if they want to censor it inorder to make it look like players are happy that's fine. AoC and maturity? I'm sorry but any MMORPG that had the ability for women to get out their boobies, nipples and all was only ever going to go one way, or am I the only one that saw that coming?

As for the topic of maturity, one only has to look at any gaming fourm to see how mature some can be. Look at how people "discuss" things. Then you wonder why gaming communities can seem immature?

Originally posted by SirPaco

One of the threads I start is

---

Quote:
The excessive focus on maturity is immature !!!!!

Youth is not a disease !!!

Grow up !!!  [/quote]

---

 Can I just check - was the above all that you posted on your opening post ?

If it was I can see why it was deleted - it means nothing and leads to no discussion so shouldn't have been posted in that form.  

If however you continued that opening post with a discussion asking for other players opinions and giving yours its a perfectly valid post imo but should have simply been moved to Off Topic where it belonged rather than general discussion.

Btw having never been banned, but having a couple of guildmates that have - may I suggest its not actually what you post - but how you post it that tends to lead to deleted posts - starting and finishing posts with f***k this and b***r that generally isn't the best start.

Originally posted by finaticd

 

On a side note....how were you able to deal with subscribing to AOC for 4 months? you lose a bet? ;p

I've been playing it steadily for over a year and still love the game :)

And yes, like many companies, they censor their forums A LOT (its why I got banned).

Originally posted by Malickie

First, what forum were you posting in? Second outside of calling people immature what was your point going to be?

First, read my other reply, I answered those 2 questions already.

Second, any sensible mod would have moved the topic to off topic if that was the real  issue.

The point I am making is that the mods are PLAYERS who probably KNOW ME IN GAME lol.

Originally posted by Wizardry

LOL the part that caught my eye was the "SPAM" "No real content" part.I wish developers had to abide by that rule :D

I could come home drunk from a bar and have a more creative mind for content than probably 90% of the developers out there.

As to the topic about maturity.

Funny post :))

About maturity, I would have discussed, if the topic had not been removed ^^

Start a topic here I'll discuss it here if you wish :p I honestly think that most people who are obsessed with maturity are kids trying to act old :))

quite a silly thread and its not the mods job to determine age or gender. However i dislike very much the fact that nazis can hi jack mmorpg at times and mods cant stop it..

bobm111

Originally posted by Agricola1

I should imagine Funcom is enforcing a strict code of censorship, probably as more and more posters are pointing out the negatives of AoC and fewer are pointing out the positives (Due to the negatives growing with each patch as the positives diminish). As there are more posters being negative (with good reason) they're balancing the forums which is alot easier than say fixing bugs in siege warfare (which after 18 months they've failed to do in my opinion). So just delete enough naughty posts in order that there are more positive ones with a few token disgruntled posts that aren't to inflamitory.

This is very true. Even though my post was about maturity and not the game itself, I've seen it happen many times ^^

However I guess they have a right to do that. But I've been wondering, as far as "rights" go, how can a player protect his rights?

I'm not saying it is the case, but lets imagine a Moderator goes bananas and bans you for no reason (again, this is a fictional example), what can you do about it? Is there any legal prescendent? :)

Do people have "rights" in a virtual world?

Originally posted by Solldara

Originally posted by SirPaco

One of the threads I start is

---

Quote:
The excessive focus on maturity is immature !!!!!

Youth is not a disease !!!

Grow up !!!  [/quote]

---

 Can I just check - was the above all that you posted on your opening post ?

If it was I can see why it was deleted - it means nothing and leads to no discussion so shouldn't have been posted in that form.  

If however you continued that opening post with a discussion asking for other players opinions and giving yours its a perfectly valid post imo but should have simply been moved to Off Topic where it belonged rather than general discussion.

Btw having never been banned, but having a couple of guildmates that have - may I suggest its not actually what you post - but how you post it that tends to lead to deleted posts - starting and finishing posts with f***k this and b***r that generally isn't the best start.

Yup, this was exactly my opening post.

I see nothing wrong with it, I was hoping people would react to do it and take the discussion from there. Can I also say that it was done with a bit of humour (if you didn'r see that).

Again, all the mod had to do was move it to off topic forum if that was the problem.

Btw I know what gets you banned, and most of the time, it's getting warned for what you genuinely consider an unfair reason, then contesting the warning, then being warned again, then raging, then getting banned.

it"s how it happened to me and how it happened to many I know ^^

Originally posted by SirPaco

---

Do you really feel it was spam? lol

What about the "hug thread" where everyone gives each other hugs (for 9 PAGES?????) what about the "3 word game" where everyone adds 3 words to previous 3 words posted???? (12 pages)

 

Now, obviously, questioning moderation on official forums is not tolerated. I don't know if it's tolerated to question another game's moderation on these forums (I didn't read the rules and before you go there, no one reads the rule you know?) but can we maybe discuss this problem?

 

The main issue is that the moderation is done by volonteers. That means that they are players, do you think it is normal?

 

I am pissed !

My honest opinion on the thread is that I would label it as spam too. So I really don't have any disagreements there in that regard. The general discussion forum has a topic restriction and more so content requirements that haven't been posted a thousand times over and actually can be talked about. That's why you see such threads as the hug one in off-topic.

Questioning moderation is perfectly fine to do in private. You have the right to message the moderator and challenge the infraction. We just rather you not post it on the open forums as a way to get others to rally with you as if we can tell them the full details of why you received the infraction anyways (yes we do keep all your suspensions, bans, and infractions private in the sense we don't tell third parties the details of your issues).

We rarely ban anyone from the forums. We do however have temporary suspensions that are automatic based on the infraction system we have in place. Spamming and flaming are actually super low but over time can be a pain in the ass.

Hope this answers some of your questions. I wouldn't take a spam infraction too seriously. We all flame, troll, and spam sometimes! I know I would be moderated too.

Originally posted by FC-Famine

Originally posted by SirPaco

---

Do you really feel it was spam? lol

(()))

I am pissed !

 

My honest opinion on the thread is that I would label it as spam too. So I really don't have any disagreements there in that regard. The general discussion forum has a topic restriction and more so content requirements that haven't been posted a thousand times over and actually can be talked about. That's why you see such threads as the hug one in off-topic.

Questioning moderation is perfectly fine to do in private. You have the right to message the moderator and challenge the infraction. We just rather you not post it on the open forums as a way to get others to rally with you as if we can tell them the full details of why you received the infraction anyways (yes we do keep all your suspensions, bans, and infractions private in the sense we don't tell third parties the details of your issues).

We rarely ban anyone from the forums. We do however have temporary suspensions that are automatic based on the infraction system we have in place. Spamming and flaming are actually super low but over time can be a pain in the ass.

Label it as spam if you want then... what can I do?

See? this is why people WANT to talk about it in public, because obviously in the balance of power, YOU have it all, and the players got none. Bringing it to public, and, as you say getting others to rally with you, is a way of finding a way of excercising pressure.

It's a power game and as long as everything happens "in private" the player got no chance at all.

By the way, I got warned on Test Live and wanted to reply and justify what I posted but was not able to do so?

WIth regards to "private"  contestation, at the time, I tried to do so with Tahitoa many times and got no replies so gave up.

With regards to this particular case (which is not a big issue really, just a 1 point warn for what you consider a spam post), I replied while giving the link to this thread. ... and got no reply :)))

Do you honestly believe that a post like the one I did warranted a 1 point warning? Do you consider it malicious or with having bad intentions? 

Though you rarely permanently ban people (I don't know of any cases) you OFTEN give out temporary suspensions, as was the case with me. I called it ban by mistake "way of tongue" I sohuld have said it was "temporary suspension" :)

Originally posted by SirPaco

Originally posted by FC-Famine

Originally posted by SirPaco

---

Do you really feel it was spam? lol

(()))

I am pissed !

 

 

Label it as spam if you want then... what can I do?

See? this is why people WANT to talk about it in public, because obviously in the balance of power, YOU have it all, and the players got none. Bringing it to public, and, as you say getting others to rally with you, is a way of finding a way of excercising pressure.

It's a power game and as long as everything happens "in private" the player got no chance at all.

By the way, I got warned on Test Live and wanted to reply and justify what I posted but was not able to do so?

WIth regards to "private"  contestation, at the time, I tried to do so with Tahitoa many times and got no replies so gave up.

With regards to this particular case (which is not a big issue really, just a 1 point warn for what you consider a spam post), I replied while giving the link to this thread. ... and got no reply :)))

Do you honestly believe that a post like the one I did warranted a 1 point warning? Do you consider it malicious or with having bad intentions? 

Though you rarely permanently ban people (I don't know of any cases) you OFTEN give out temporary suspensions, as was the case with me. I called it ban by mistake "way of tongue" I sohuld have said it was "temporary suspension" :)

It's a question for the ages really. Why would we have public debates on all infractions in the community? The same would still apply with no matter what the player would always be right and the moderation would be wrong. That is why we try to have a balance system where the rules are very clear for all to understand. 

The question however is if the context is really against any said rule. In example, is this really spam or isn't it? You can really say that about any post in the forums that has been moderated. Is this really a flame or is he or she just joking? We must be fair on all accounts and use the best judgetment we have to issue infractions. Otherwise there would be nothing but pure havoc with people running the streets killing other players with swords and rusty blades!

I've personally overturned dozens of infractions due to mistakes or misunderstanding either from my end (Funcom) or from the other moderators. They happen all the time and most of the time it's due to the player questioning the moderation. No one is perfect and mistakes will happen. That's why I advocate to message your moderator because you do have a worthy chance for a second review even if it ended in a suspension. No one ever gets bad marks for making mistakes on the moderators end.

Hope this helps!