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Age of Conan Forum » General Discussion » Lord Bonezy Asks Why not shut down AOC before launching the expansion?
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for the love of my eyes, please stop quoting huge walls of text only to answer with a few lines 
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Originally posted by Aercus
Then I guess I misread your thread title. Sorry for the confusion. As to your example of portable music devices, I have absolutely no clue as to how it pertains to the (admittedly misunderstood) thread title. As far as I know, Sony made both Walkmans and Diskmans overlapping for many years. Also, again as far as I know, seeing as my reading comprehension appears to be sub-par, AoC is raking in money for Funcom. Evidently your reading comprehension and comprehension in general, according to their last quarterly report they lost money to the tune of millions of $, and they've let staff go more than once in mass terminations, they've merged servers and lost hundreds of thousands of subscriptions. Free trials which one would think would be a huge benefit to turn the situation or trend of a situation around, have actually reinforced a downward decline in subscriptions. These are all facts. Comparing Sony to Funcom is a joke. |
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Originally posted by LordBonezy
I think re-launch would be a very brave move by Funcom to sort out AoC. In addition to preparing for the expansion and fixing the remaining bugs from the current game, they could also make the brave decision to go F2P along the DDO lines. That type of action could save their struggling mmorpg from collapse and re-gain gamers support. Next year is likely to be a very competitive year for mmo as there are many new games coming (SWTOR, STO...etc) and several established games are releasing expansions (WoW, EvE...etc). But, in reality I think Funcom make money out of AoC still, so it will continue bugs and all until their expansion. I wonder if it possible to bet that the expansion will contain many significant bugs on launch day. |
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Originally posted by LordBonezy Evidently your reading comprehension and comprehension in general, according to their last quarterly report they lost money to the tune of millions of $, and they've let staff go more than once in mass terminations, they've merged servers and lost hundreds of thousands of subscriptions. Free trials which one would think would be a huge benefit to turn the situation or trend of a situation around, have actually reinforced a downward decline in subscriptions. These are all facts. Comparing Sony to Funcom is a joke.
How you were able to make my statement out to be a comparison between Sony and Funcom is beyond me, guess I'm not the only one with impaired reading comprehension. Also, Funcom reported gross income of 7.6m from the Full-fledged MMO segment in their Q2 report, with EBT being 1.5m. I doubt AO is the largest contributing factor, and the majority of results are therefore due to AoC. At least my general comprehension appears to be better than yours. :) But who knows, maybe your reply was another joke? Eagerly awaiting |
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Originally posted by Illyssia How can they do that right now? Turbine could do it because they have a product out on the market that actually returns on their investment. AOC is funcoms main income, AO got them by before, it wouldn't now IMO. That was before they put so much into AOC. Shutting down AOC would mean cutting off their main investment, that won't happen until it's lights out in Oslo. I doubt you're going to see a f2p version of AOC anytime soon. If TSW takes off it may be a possibility. For every minute You are angry , You lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson |
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Originally posted by Illyssia
I think re-launch would be a very brave move by Funcom to sort out AoC. In addition to preparing for the expansion and fixing the remaining bugs from the current game, they could also make the brave decision to go F2P along the DDO lines. That type of action could save their struggling mmorpg from collapse and re-gain gamers support. Next year is likely to be a very competitive year for mmo as there are many new games coming (SWTOR, STO...etc) and several established games are releasing expansions (WoW, EvE...etc). But, in reality I think Funcom make money out of AoC still, so it will continue bugs and all until their expansion. I wonder if it possible to bet that the expansion will contain many significant bugs on launch day.
What is most disturbing is that they can't even seem to get patches which sit in development for months and then on testlive for weeks to launch smooth. I mean can you think of a patch that was problem free since Craig took over? Of course not, there is a feedback forum filled with shit they break on every patch so our faith in Funcom execution is very low. Suppose they do deliver a nearly flawless expansion, I for one will be right there to support it, spread the word, and try to bring as many players into that exprience as possible explaining full well why I think it is a good exprience just like I'm here sharing the lore about how AOC is fail-potatoes. I really wish they had made smarter, better, and faster decisions, implemented on AOC Hyborian Adventures but I'll be able to live with the expansion if it plays better, has mechanics which aren't AOC's and sees updated faster and is a more complete exprience. You don't see Craig talking about it too much, about how complete, polished, finished the fucking expansion is and they mother fucking better not drop a half-baked egg on the community like they did with AOC. There will be boycotts and beheadings. |
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Originally posted by Aercus
I think all of my threads have been relevant. Are not busted sieges relevant? Is not the clumsiness of the overall design including the guild banks of 50 slots of 100 player guilds not an issue? How about the consistently declining populations and desire for trying this game out for free, is that not a relevant topic? Is it controversial, yes of course, however who is causing the controversy. I would argue that Funcom is by ignoring the base of players who would re-sub and recruit old-time players as well as advocate for new blood with several very basic and necessary changes. The fact that they don't and they continue to go off in other directions while their playerbase continues to shrink backs that fact that their direction is the wrong one. Given that there are serious limitation evidently with the current product and that they cannot even generate interest by giving it away they have decided that the time is right to dump a new product on the market and by doing so, they have of course made an opportunity cost of, the delivery of the features and implements they advertised and sold the original game upon. Is that inflammatory, yes, am I fanning the flames stating facts? Or are these facts wrong. Have they not decided to abandon the current product given that they can't even give it away, and move resources and productivity from fixing what is busted in Age of Conan Hyborian Adventures and pour those resources into the Expansion? Of course they have. Is this off-topic? No. If you want to have an emotional response to this thread that is your call. I believe that we have a freedom of expression and that all opinions which have some merit and factual rooting with supporting evidence, i.e. the history of the exprience, are valid, relevant and necessary for folks to make an informed decision about a purchase or support of Funcom or anything they produce in the future. The past is the best indicator of future events. History repeats itself. Funcom has a history and Age of Conan certainly has a history. Their history with Age of Conan is well known, the idea of shutting down AOC when it becomes necessary has of course been talked about at their company and you know that when they somehow talked about how MMOs are long term commitments and decades long projects. This project isn't going to last 10 years or even another year if their subscription numbers fall to 10k or even lower. They can't rebrand their product Age of Conan because they have tried and tried and tried, and in more ways than just branding and front over the table marketing, they employed shills and advocates and all kinds of underhanded as well as middle level questionable marketing efforts. You may recall the ten ton hammer exclusives and the video campaigns, the early access, the hype machine was out of control and lasted months after launch. You may also recall the free trials and how well they went over and the shilling that was occuring and the results of those trials. The results are what speak the loudest even though they are shrouded in the most secrecy. The real joke, is that you, me, many hundreds of thousands of others, paid for a product, invested in it and didn't get what we paid for or invested. When given the opportunity over and over to improve and take the game in the direction it needed to go to stop the hemorraging of subs and to give it the chance at having free trials mean something positive rather than neutral at best, well they simply haven't gone with that opportunity.
I have not lied or spun their actual implementations negatively. DX10 which works for some folks is still beta and it works for some but not all, but its in the game. Sieges are busted. The guild bank which was requested first a few days after launch be expanded and commented on in just one thread for 43 pages, is still as it was at launch. They simply haven't given the things, the substantive things and mechanics things that needed real changes the changes they have needed. We all know populations are as low as they have ever been and continue to slide so either put up your reasons for why I shouldn't speak or shut up.
Skimming through your wall of text: Your defense for starting a troll thread is to derail it? Please cut'n'paste the statements supporting your original claim that AoC needs to shut down. No more than 5 lines, my time is limited :)
If you don't have the time or will to read what I have spend the time and effort thinking and putting into words Fuck Off. I don't need your understanding, support, or sympathy, or your opinion matched conversely with my own. If you don't like what you are reading and don't have the ability to read what I say to the level of comprehension necessary to come up with a more compelling response then asking me to summarize my points, then simply fuck off. |
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Originally posted by LordBonezy Skimming through your wall of text: Your defense for starting a troll thread is to derail it? Please cut'n'paste the statements supporting your original claim that AoC needs to shut down. No more than 5 lines, my time is limited :) If you don't have the time or will to read what I have spend the time and effort thinking and putting into words Fuck Off. I don't need your understanding, support, or sympathy, or your opinion matched conversely with my own. If you don't like what you are reading and don't have the ability to read what I say to the level of comprehension necessary to come up with a more compelling response then asking me to summarize my points, then simply fuck off.
I asked simple and short questions which demand only simple and short replies. If you are unable to provide one, you are disguising the the lack of reply in a wall of text. Therefore, no need to read wall of text replies. And ditto to you, sir. :) |
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Originally posted by Aercus Evidently your reading comprehension and comprehension in general, according to their last quarterly report they lost money to the tune of millions of $, and they've let staff go more than once in mass terminations, they've merged servers and lost hundreds of thousands of subscriptions. Free trials which one would think would be a huge benefit to turn the situation or trend of a situation around, have actually reinforced a downward decline in subscriptions. These are all facts. Comparing Sony to Funcom is a joke.
How you were able to make my statement out to be a comparison between Sony and Funcom is beyond me, guess I'm not the only one with impaired reading comprehension. Also, Funcom reported gross income of 7.6m from the Full-fledged MMO segment in their Q2 report, with EBT being 1.5m. I doubt AO is the largest contributing factor, and the majority of results are therefore due to AoC. At least my general comprehension appears to be better than yours. :) But who knows, maybe your reply was another joke? Eagerly awaiting
FACT: November 12th is when Funcom's stock takes another dip because there we find out they have 3 long quarters or struggle and without much sign of light at the end of the tunnel. FACT: Force Layoffs of which Funcom is performing is not an indicator of a strong healthy company or the sole effects of the "tough and troubled economy" we keep hearing about in the world. Its only seriously troubling for those folks without jobs, corporations are seeing smaller profits but seeing profits, unless their products are doing poorly in their respective markets. Gaming and entertainment in general is a growing market in the current economy. Funcom is loosing marketshare due to their inept implementation of Age of Conan, their product. AOC is of course generating an income but at what expense? They were counting on a lot more income if they are issuing layoffs in a market which is growing. It was you who mentioned Sony in name, rather than just mentioning that companies produced the walkman, CD players, and MP3 players, however Sony did that and remained profitable, Funcom isn't returning a profit that anybody holding a stock wants to see a company returning. When you mentioned Sony you drew the comparison. If you want to withdraw your comparison that is fine. I have a hard time finding similarities between Sony and Funcom unless you talk about Starwars Galaxies and NGE. |
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Originally posted by LordBonezy
How you were able to make my statement out to be a comparison between Sony and Funcom is beyond me, guess I'm not the only one with impaired reading comprehension. Also, Funcom reported gross income of 7.6m from the Full-fledged MMO segment in their Q2 report, with EBT being 1.5m. I doubt AO is the largest contributing factor, and the majority of results are therefore due to AoC. At least my general comprehension appears to be better than yours. :) But who knows, maybe your reply was another joke? Eagerly awaiting
FACT: November 12th is when Funcom's stock takes another dip because there we find out they have 3 long quarters or struggle and without much sign of light at the end of the tunnel. FACT: Force Layoffs of which Funcom is performing is not an indicator of a strong healthy company or the sole effects of the "tough and troubled economy" we keep hearing about in the world. Its only seriously troubling for those folks without jobs, corporations are seeing smaller profits but seeing profits, unless their products are doing poorly in their respective markets. Gaming and entertainment in general is a growing market in the current economy. Funcom is loosing marketshare due to their inept implementation of Age of Conan, their product. So you avoid my statements by making two claims out to be facts, good job :) To get back on track: You agree with me that I never made any link between Funcom and Sony. Also, that AoC earns good profits and cash for Funcom?
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Originally posted by LordBonezy
This question comes from a clear lack of understanding of how things work. There is a development department, and an operations department. If the game were shut down, you would lay off operations... shut down servers, etc. This would have a large cost (shutting down has a cost as well) and then there would be a startup cost when you started again in a few months. This would cost you a LOT more than simply maintaining operations for this time. This would also have no effect on development, because they are a separate department... As for the numbers, well, I dont think you are understanding those either. Sure they had to close a bunch of servers, and layoff a bunch of people... but that was to reduce the cost so that they would keep making a profit... So, in reality they have already done what was needed to keep things running, and making more cuts (not in line with the customer base) would just undermine thier ability to make money. Also, most of the layoffs were developers. This is normally done when a game goes live, as they dont need a large developement team anymore. |
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Originally posted by Aercus
How you were able to make my statement out to be a comparison between Sony and Funcom is beyond me, guess I'm not the only one with impaired reading comprehension. Also, Funcom reported gross income of 7.6m from the Full-fledged MMO segment in their Q2 report, with EBT being 1.5m. I doubt AO is the largest contributing factor, and the majority of results are therefore due to AoC. At least my general comprehension appears to be better than yours. :) But who knows, maybe your reply was another joke? Eagerly awaiting
FACT: November 12th is when Funcom's stock takes another dip because there we find out they have 3 long quarters or struggle and without much sign of light at the end of the tunnel. FACT: Force Layoffs of which Funcom is performing is not an indicator of a strong healthy company or the sole effects of the "tough and troubled economy" we keep hearing about in the world. Its only seriously troubling for those folks without jobs, corporations are seeing smaller profits but seeing profits, unless their products are doing poorly in their respective markets. Gaming and entertainment in general is a growing market in the current economy. Funcom is loosing marketshare due to their inept implementation of Age of Conan, their product. So you avoid my statements by making two claims out to be facts, good job :) To get back on track: You agree with me that I never made any link between Funcom and Sony. Also, that AoC earns good profits and cash for Funcom?
Can't say that I do agree with your assesment that Funcom is earning a good profit and generating the cash Funcom needs to stay healthy, growing, and viable, and neither do investors or their stock wouldn't be rated like an African penny stock. It is a fact that 3rd quarter numbers are coming out for them on the 12th. It is my supposition that they will see a stock price decline because we've seen a population decline, which means subscriptions are down, which means revenues are down, which means profits are down, and that means stock holders will not be making a profit holding their stock, which means more of them will sell then buy, which means the price will go down, because the supply of Funcom stock will be up, and demand will remain the same. I'm sorry if that is too much for you to follow but logic comes rather easy for me. Look if you are going to quote me get my whole statement in there even if you don't read it otherwise you just look like you are re-writing what was posted and you look pretty amatuer doing it. Thanks, LB |
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Originally posted by Superman0X
This question comes from a clear lack of understanding of how things work. There is a development department, and an operations department. If the game were shut down, you would lay off operations... shut down servers, etc. This would have a large cost (shutting down has a cost as well) and then there would be a startup cost when you started again in a few months. This would cost you a LOT more than simply maintaining operations for this time. This would also have no effect on development, because they are a separate department... As for the numbers, well, I dont think you are understanding those either. Sure they had to close a bunch of servers, and layoff a bunch of people... but that was to reduce the cost so that they would keep making a profit... So, in reality they have already done what was needed to keep things running, and making more cuts (not in line with the customer base) would just undermine thier ability to make money. Also, most of the layoffs were developers. This is normally done when a game goes live, as they dont need a large developement team anymore.
They are not in the process of launching a new product. They are in the process of expanding AOC, finishing as fast as possible the secret world so that they actually get the product out before the company goes under, or they have to layoff more staff, and they aren't doing layoffs because they don't need the people, they are doing "restructuring" because they need to free up the capital in order to stay afloat. They can't raise capital with the sub numbers they have in AOC and they sure as hell aren't doing it by offering free trials, or with the stock price where it is at today. This is supposing I was serious, which I was not, merely joking about the idea. They are a corporation and wouldn't shut down AOC. Clearly though it is an option which might allow more success with the expansion than hugely negative word of mouth spreading from the old bitter, jaded crowd of players on the AOC servers as they are. Just a thought. |
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Originally posted by LordBonezy
They are not in the process of launching a new product. They are in the process of expanding AOC, finishing as fast as possible the secret world so that they actually get the product out before the company goes under, or they have to layoff more staff, and they aren't doing layoffs because they don't need the people, they are doing "restructuring" because they need to free up the capital in order to stay afloat. They can't raise capital with the sub numbers they have in AOC and they sure as hell aren't doing it by offering free trials, or with the stock price where it is at today.
The cost of shutting down and restarting the game would deplete the company, and would effectively kill this game. They would be better off just firing everyone and doing a hard shutdown. However, the more reasonalbe option is to keep it on life support with minimal staff, and bring in the money that it is making... which is what they will do. |
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Originally posted by LordBonezy
So NOW you agree that Funcom is actually earning a profit from AoC, and not making losses. And seeing as you avoid commenting on my question that I never equated Funcom with Sony I take this a tacit agreement that I did not. Funny how quickly these things change :) Can we also agree that 1.5m in earnings before tax is more than 0 dollars, which is what it would be if they shut down? |
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Originally posted by Halandir
I'll just reply to your comment with OP's own words
Originally posted by LordBonezy:
"Actually this whole thread was kind of a joke..."
[edit: added link]
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Originally posted by Barteaux
I'll just reply to your comment with OP's own words
Originally posted by LordBonezy:
"Actually this whole thread was kind of a joke..."
[edit: added link]
Yes I read Lordbonezy's post. While I may consider that post somewhat feeble I dont really see how it would invalidate any of the points in my post. The on-topic part of my reply was NOT supporting a total shutdown of AoC for any period of time and the offtopic part of my post (the part quoted) was a reply to your post. I stand by my post in full - The part you quoted + my feeling that it would be, looking at the longterm perspective, worth putting AoC development on hold for a month or two while Funcom restructures, relocates, train new developers etc. instead of just trying keep up appearences that "everything is business as usual". Their latest patch-repatch-hotfix cycle seems to support my feelings in that regard.
The EE Hex: A powerful spell that prevents the target from telling the truth, eventually turning him into a caricature. |
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Originally posted by Halandir
I guess the most important part is that you believe in yourself... and of course, Lord Bonezy. |
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