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Age of Conan: Unchained Editorial: Adult MMOGs: Innovation or Gimmick?
Dan Fortier looks at adult MMOs like Age of Conan and 2Moons and why this may or may not be a good idea.
By Dan Fortier on November 06, 2006
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MMOWTF: Adult MMOGs - Innovation or Gimmick?
Weekly Column by Dan Fotier
It seems like every week something completely unexpected pops out at me that just screams "turn me into this week's article" at the top of its nonexistent lungs. In this case, I was reading an interview on our beautiful site with David Perry who was giving us some details about his new ultra-violent MMO, 2Moons. 2Moons promises to feature tons of adult content including profanity. I decided to find out more about it and another game that promises a bit of extreme content, Age of Conan, and take a look at the motivations behind creating this type of game. The previous incarnation of the 2Moons publisher, Acclaim, was famous for their mature content titles. Having released games like BMX XXX and video game conversions of franchises such as South Park and WWF, they are not newcomers to producing these kinds of titles. Even if this is a new company under an old name, it comes as no shock then that they are very supportive of this venture. The game itself is a conversion of a Korean game called Dekaron which is billed as an extreme action game. It seems like the tempo of the game will be carried over and I can imagine that doing the English voice-overs for the profanity would be one of the many tasks in localizing this to a Western audience. I'm not sure what the effects of keeping kiddies out of the game will do for this title, but I salute them for their guts either way. I can only wish the 2Moons team luck in their venture to gain a following here, since Korean games aren't really my cup of tea. Perhaps a slash 'em up MMO will be more successful than the more grind oriented conversions of the past, because we definitely don't need another RF Online. Another title that claims to be pushing the boundaries for more violent content in MMOs is Age of Conan. Based on the stories of Robert Howard (a contemporary of HP Lovecraft) it features combat that will be "bloody, barbaric and brutal" including the ability to decapitate your opponents. The idea sounds great, but after decapitating hundreds of victims I can imagine even that would get stale. I'm happy to see someone looking to advance the boring click and wait system that has become the standard. Now obviously violence and profanity are nothing new to video games in general, but MMOs that take the adult route are a bit fewer and far between. This mostly due to the fact that unless the adult part of the content somehow enhances the game play, instead of just providing a reason to ban children from the game, then it's not much use other than to alienate potential customers and publishing options. There could be several different reasons behind a team of developers making the decision to take their game to the adult level: The first that springs to mind is shock value. The original Grand Theft Auto was a mediocre game at best without the mature subject matter, most of which took place only in your mind anyway. I can imagine a team looking to make their name known in the industry might be looking to tap the mythical untouched masses waiting for a truly great adult online game. I stopped believing in the tooth fairy quite recently and a massive adult MMO market is just about as real as far as I'm concerned. In the case of Age of Conan, I believe that the extreme combat options are probably just an attempt to give the game a grittier feel and less like the EverQuest. Will the game get rated Mature and loose Funcom more fans than they will gain from the license and more graphic game play? Not likely since the average age for gamers is steadily climbing and most people that would be interested in a Conan game would most likely be older than eighteen anyway. They have promised quite a bit and it remains to be seen if they can deliver the goods and bring PvP with purpose into the next generation of MMORPG titles. Of course, none of this really addresses the central topic about adult content making or breaking a game in the modern era. There all sorts of tricky issues that pop up when you start talking about excluding people under a certain age, one of the biggest is how to tell who is under the age limit. Obviously some form of token age verification would be employed but ultimately that wouldn't be enough to keep a horde of teens from paying and logging in anyway. How responsible would the developers be for policing these underage offenders? Developers today have enough trouble combating exploiters and gold sellers let alone try and figure out if they are too young to play. If you draw the line at nudity and foul language, what market are you really catering to? Being an American I can say that we are perhaps the most sensitive consumers as far as what we think of as 'adult'. Most of the things that would keep a game off the shelves here in the states would be barely considered mature for some of our European friends; it's just a difference in culture. In a global marketplace with such a diverse customer base as MMOs you have to try and develop something you can easily use around the world or risk falling into the 'niche of death'. Sure some of the most violent games have been created in the States, but for some reason we are considerably more sensitive to sexual references. A game that wants to avoid crippling controversy and gain a decent sales profile in our part of the world would have to tone down any kind of borderline pornography. Ultimately though, a game has to be fun to play and have engaging content, adult or otherwise. If the adult content is just a smokescreen for a lack of depth or creativity in the game's design then I doubt it would get any more attention than a roadside freak show. While I don't want the genre to go Nintendo on us, we don't need titles that are empty beyond their extreme settings and features. They don't serve any purpose other than creating another generation of jaded gamers. Now that I'm off my soapbox you can weigh in on the topic. Don't be shy, wade into the forums and bust some heads extreme gamer style!
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Best article he has done to date.
It never ceases to amaze me how "adult" and "mature" mean sex + violence, as opposed to, for example, complexity and depth. Oh well, I'm a European, so I'm pretty sure that I will never really understand you yanks anyway.
I will say one thing though: crying blue murder every time a computer game shows some skin (or blood), while at the same time most of your average rap music videos have more p0rn in them than all computer games to date combined, plus lyrics that glorify violence, seems a bit strange to me; yet kids can watch those as much as they like. Or they can watch your army kill people for real in Iraq. Not pointing fingers here, just saying the stuff is already out there.
To me a mature is dealing with issues and complexities that most children would not have the abilities or experiences to comprehend.
As Cowinspace posts, I agree, I think the mature content label would have the effect of appealing more to young teenage boys than any other demographic group that play MMO's and the issue, as Dan quite rightly raises, is:
How can you be sure that someone on the other side of an internet connection is in fact an adult if they are determined to play?
It will be interesting to see the effects of the mature rated games.
I sort of agree with Vociferor in that I think teenagers would be more drawn to something that is a little risquee than they would to something with a 3+ tag. But at the same time I've always been very anti-corporate censorship and don't think something should be removed just to appease the wig-wearing old-school 90-year-old bureaucrats - after all, they're not the majority market here.
The fantasy genre has always been about buxom wenches wearing very little and musclebound guys running about in a loincloth waving a sword around. You can't have weapons without violence, and a fantasy game without weapons isn't living up to what people want from the genre.
So release whatever product you want, stick an advisory label on it (T or 16+ or whatever the ESRB uses these days) and see what happens. I think more people will be turned away by inaccurate or unbelievable content than they would by a bit of wanton violence. On the other hand, if it's just gore for the sake of gore then it's a bit pointless.
As for trying to figure out the real age of the person at the other end of the connection? That's not the company's problem. If the store sells a game without asking for proof of age, then the parents allow their child to use their credit card without asking what it's for, then they have absolutely no comeback if that child then has nightmares or needs therapy. I'm of the school who believes parents should be responsible for their own children - is that silly?
And don't even get me started on the whole issue of "Oh, little Johnny was such a good little boy until he played <violent game>, then he broke into our shed and shot up the town," Grrr...
When questions like this are raised I always give the same answer. Time will tell. Lets revive this thread 3 months after AoC is released and see if flesh of a bare or bloodied nature has had an effect on the gameplay and general enjoyment. Much easier to reflect on the past than guess the future.
Flesh is fine as long as the gameplay and atmosphere is also of sufficient quality. Boredom will soon set in otherwise.
If we are going to have adult MMPORPG's then I would love to see something along the lines of GTA rather than the already crowded market pertaining to Sword and Sorcery titles.
Hehe, don't get me wrong Dajmin, I didnt mean that I thought the game was going to warp kid's minds or that it would be FC's fault if kids play the game. You're quite right to say that it is the responsibility of a child's guardians as to what they are exposed to or playing.
What I meant is that it is all really academic when it comes to the age rating of the game.
As you quite rightly suggest, it is completely ridiculous to suggest that it could be enforced with any accountability put upon the company. Also, Impossible to regulate with any reasonable degree of assurance unless the child has strict, technology savvy and attentitive guardians.
On the other hand though, after giving it some more thought, why are FC making a big deal out of this fact now?
Being obligated under law (not even sure what obligations there are with this regard) to have the game rated is one thing but the game is not a finished project yet and I assume that closer to the release date it will be given to the relevant body(ies) to place the final age limit(s)/warning(s) on the game. I'm pretty sure the game hasnt gone into open beta yet so the age verification part isnt going to be a big deal or a legal obligation just now.
So what is the number 1 most likely reason as to why, for a considerable length of time now, FC have been claiming it will be a mature rating? I suspect it is probably to hype it up and keep teenage boys interested while they anticipate the release.
But to give some impartiality to my view:
Another possibility could be that they released the information so that they do not disappoint anyone who will be under the age threshold of the game by waiting till nearer the release date to announce the mature rating. Personally, I don't buy that side of the coin though.
I'm a 24 year old red blooded young male and the mature rating will not be one of the reasons that makes me try AoC if I do, as Dan said, you can only decapitate someone so many times before it loses the appeal. I can't speak for everyone my sex/age but that is my view.
I was a little unclear as to why the age verification was an issue to me. This should have explained it a bit better for me. I just don't see what the point in it is as it is largely un-enforcable. Placing age restrictions on online games will have even less of an impact than age restrictions on movies. Just a token gesture, I guess, that FC seem to be exploiting for additional advertising in my opinion.
On another note, lets realize (at least in the case of Age of Conan) that Robert Howard's books had a good amount of sex, drugs, and the ultra-violence. With the pressure being put on the ESRB there is no way that funcom could stick to the background without having those 3 things running around in the game without getting a mature rating.
I would pay GOOD money for a server that had an age restriction on it...25+ sounds like a good number to start with :)
Seriously though, In the long run the advisory stickers really don't do much to keep kids from buying a game. Most parents are not even aware of such things until they hear about them on CNN or the nightly news...ie Grand Theft Auto. The shock value of the content will initially wear off then you are left with one thing...do you have a good game or not. Regardless of the age of the player that is what will keep them paying every month.
I applaud the makers of AOC for taking this step, now how it is implemented and what steps they take to insure that the population is who they want it to be will be interesting to see.
I find it interesting that most games rated as "mature" are not all that appealing to those who possess true maturity. Maturity, to me, is a measure of a person's ability to relate to the world while still remaining independent and choosing their own path. Immaturity, conversely, is what I see as a general lack of faith in oneself and a tendency to follow the whims of whatever social crowd that person is drawn to. Mature subject matter may very well involve acts of sex, violence and profanity, but does so in the context of a larger message, one that is ultimately redeeming to the human beings receiving it. I would love to see more TRULY mature games on the market, games that you might want to restrict younger children from playing, simply because they have not evolved past the parroting stage of their development and are not yet able to make conscious choices or be moved by the more subtle messages that mature content might offer when viewed in the context of the medium. This is more the failure of the culture involved that tries to shield children from "taboo" subjects and convince them that any contact with such things is unequivocably bad. Education needs to take place, and at some point, it needs to be done with more mature content, as eventually children will become young adults and begin asking difficult questions where the answers are not always clear-cut or pretty. MMOGs have the ability to provide some of that education, and I, for one, would like to see a company take a mature rating seriously and start providing more than visceral content to warrant an "M."
Let's take a game such as Grand Theft Auto and say, A game with a dark theme to it such as SMT: Nocturn. Both games certainly have content and themes that there is an age limit for, but would anyone recomend a game like SMT with its story and theme to someone who just wants to roam around killing people like in GTA. One could put GTA as a "mindlessly killing" game. An example of it's "mature: content being just a smokescreen.
That's just my 2 cents on that issue, the article at hand was an interesting read, but truth be told on the matter, putting mature/dark themes is really part of the game world, the game itself should be fun but in say a game like Conan, it works well with the world Funcom is trying to create. After all, sure the game may be fun, but especially with MMOs, the world needs to appeal to the player in order to keep them immersed in the game world.
If one mentions things is a rant about overt bloodyness and nudity and whatever trying to appeal to the M rated crowd and also mentions a specific game like Age of Conan, one should also include a little context.
Though nothing overt was said negatively, from some of the posts here I think some people are lumping AoC into the egregious/gratuitous M content crowd, and that really doesn't apply.
In fact the only way to stay true to the Hyboria of Robert E. Howard is by having it be a gritty, lusty, brutal, savage, amoral world.
And the fact they Funcom has done that, so far as we can tell up till now (we'll see what happens in game), without either going over the top and getting all "Second Life" cyber nor dumbing it down ala the Conan movies, gives it a special place in the M rated catagory, as it is truly M=FOR ADULTS, not M=for grown up teenagers.
Secound, how to make sure that those on an adult server were actually adults, good luck with that .. i dont see how its possible to totaly make that happen.
Third, maybe they could just move annoying people to the same server... hmmmm
I find that mature people usually oppose those things. A mature game from my viewpoint would emphasize such things as complex economy and complex relationships. Things that you do ingame should affect your gameplay later
(popped my mind : virtue stuff in Ultima IV).
edit:typo
Blood, gore, and sex = mature because they're things kids shouldn't be exposed to. Because they can't yet comprehend and will go to their elementary schools and try to practice on their friends. I know everybody at my school was as soon as Power Rangers and Mortal Kombat got popular. Even TMNT got quite a few people kicked in the face during recess.
On a side note, they're trying to sell games like AoC, 2Moons, and Gears of War to College Students, Young Adults, and even older audiences who want a stress reliever, but don't have a lot of time. It's who they're always selling to. But little kids are always going to find appeal in what they're parents and older peers are doing. I personally owned 0 M rated games before I turned 18, and any "Explicit Lyrics" CD's I had were bought or acquired through shady means. Sure I still played those games over at friends' houses, but trust me i'd always regret it when I got caught. Not that i'm complaning, that's what parents are supposed to do.
I recently got to see 'This film is not yet rated' at a UK film festival, which gave me an insight into the bizarre and wacky world of American film ratings. What it taught me was that, for the US audience at least, mature content is 'all' about violence and sex portrayed on the screen. Actually, it seems to be mostly about sex, even if it's between two consenting and committed adults.
Age of Conan looks promising to me, as long as the ability to use mature content is used to create better characterisations and stronger plots. I want to use 'Saving Private Ryan' as an example, but I'm not sure what rating it got in the end, but without the horrific beach landing scene it wouldn't have had such an impact.
Loping heads off though, isn't mature content. I remember games on my Amstrad CPC464 where you could do that. The thing that worries me though is that I don't recall the Conan books having much depth. It was pretty generic stuff, warriors fighting giant snakes and female warriors in nought, but scraps of chainmail (ouch, gotta chaffe), I guess mature in this case will be that you'll finally get to shag the maiden when you rescue her.
I can only really see one major advantage of giving a game a more mature rating, and that's to keep out (assuming the parents adhere to the rules as specified before!) the script kiddies. Or at least attempt to.
The problem is I was a mature teen, so I'd never have gone up to a total stranger and said "ZOMG!!! U R T3H !1337!!11 gimme ur gear FTW!!11!" in any game at any age. But likewise I've seen some pretty shockingly immature behaviour from people who are older than my 26 years.
Slapping a generic "adult" tag on anything won't stop kids who can sweet-talk their parents. Nor will it stop the hordes of actual adult louts with more money than brain cells.
Oh, maybe we need a new tag - MN for Moron. If you are an idiot, you can't play. How's that? :) Could be enforced by some mandatory common sense questions during account creation. I'm liking the sound of this more and more ;)
Its nothing new. The European mmog Entropia Universe have MOBs resembling human males but with enormous dicks swinging between their legs. It looks hillarious when they perform martial arts kung-fu attacks! :-)
(but then again, they have a 18+ years of age, as they also have a real cash economy in place within the game)
Immature folks will react to sex and violence immaturly, more mature folks will not. I personally think that it is about time that more mature content in ALL forms, including sex, violence, depth and complexity be added into our games.
So long as the sex and violence add to the feel of the world, the lore and the characters and not just thrown in for the sake of shock value alone. THAT is what separates the mature content from the nasty smut.
It is only a gimmick if it is implemented as one. However, if used cleverly and appropriately adult/mature content could enhance games and be the growing trend as we gamers continue to grow up and tire of cute, cuddly and celibate gaming.
2Moons lost me at: "...conversion of a Korean game...", I'm just not a big grinder I guess. hehe
To the author (And everyone who didn't catch his use of the word loose): Please, PLEASE read my brief article Of Loose and Lose on this fine site. This helpful definition from m-w.com may be of use: "Loose: 1 a : not rigidly fastened or securely attached." I will be doing weekly posts, trying to correct some of the more common word blunders...Loose vs. Lose had to be first; the misuse of these words is chronic. I lose sleep over how often people say loose when they mean lose! hehe
Good article over all though.
A Mature Rating is an age restriction. In this sense there's a misnomer to the term "Mature". It in no way reflects the mentality of players. An Adult Rating would be more appropriate of a rating which depicts violence and/or nudity.
I'm "older", by a long shot, and I *am* interested in dynamic environments with complex gaming systems that have a good detail to graphic "violence" and a fair share of "adult" settings and presentations.
While I don't see myself playing a game that's based around fornication-online, I would deffinetly be interested in one that allows for certain settings which would be age restricted. Breasts are good for health and piece of mind. Children will not be ruined by seeing breasts in games, on TV or in the bedroom. I'm an "adult" and I've seen my fair share of breasts (boobies) yet just as much I enjoy good exploitation flicks I like to see boobies.
As stated, violence is a marketable product in the United States and sex sells. Too many parents are uneducated while their kids are skipping school to pretend to be "cool" 'cs they're in a "gang" selling "crack". But some ill informed fool wants to say what can and can't be viewed by consenting "adults".
Radio play lists are full of demorializing, racist and stereotyped proganda that's it's digusting. All this in the US media yet heaven forbid if someone should see boobies. You can listen to songs which attempt to overglorify raunchy and degrading behaviour that purpetrates ill regard for society all day long on most radio stations. But if I want to play a game with other "adults" that might have some sort of brief nudity exposing a booby it's wrong?
My Milkshake brings all the boys to the yard,
And their like "It's better than yours"
Damn right, It's better than yours,
I can teach you, but I have to charge
There are many songs which are intently dirived to be sexually permiscuous while morally distasteful.
If anyone is going to play the moral police it should start with seperating the over zealous mass marketing with individually choosen expression. Afterall, sex is an age old commodity that's been sold and purchased for as long as society knows...
The moral: Boobies don't kill people, guns and drugs do.
Jeez, what a letdown.
Here I was, all ready to read about an ADULT MMO--you know, like SWG used to be before the NGE--something that required community and THOUGHT--and all this silly article was about was feelthy talk and sex. what is so "adult" about that?
Ho hum.
For some reason MMO's are way behind the curve in creating M rated content. Consoles and most offline PC game have been using this kind of stuff for years...Are they assuming that MMO players are young or more squemish?
Anyway good read dude..
Adult MMORPGs would be nice, except that im 16, so I would be excluded, so lamez.
Plus, you adults need retarded kids to make you appreciate your own maturity.
It takes effort to fake an identity >_>
But, on the downside, all teh adult gamers would be powergaming, cuz thats what they do. So, there would be HUGE level gaps. Huge.
You americans are such hypocrits sometimes (or better most of the time).
- Janet Jackson accidently shows a nipple in the Super Bowl final and your country isnt large enough. It was like the whole world was coming to an end
While you try to sensor every nipple and every piece of skin on TV you have the largest Porn industry of the world! Asia looks amaturistic with it. And still trying to deny that fact 
- You americans worry so much and making such a big deal out of nothing, while you should start try to worry about the more serious issues within your country!! Like for instance that every kid can buy a gun on almost every corner of the street! That your country has the largest number of shooting accidents, murders, serial killers of the whole world!
- You americans produce the most violent Hip Hop video clips of the world and its ALL OKAY, while when a videogame shows a nipple or a tiny piece of nudity you act like the world is coming to an end!
You americans talk about how your country is the land of opportunities and total freedom? Well, let me tell you that I feel a lot more safe and have a lot more freedom back here in little Holland!
I think its the adult Americans that need to grow up and start dealing with more serious issues, like the amount of violence (not because of videogames or TV, but because fire arms are legal) and how you are all selling your freedom and privacy to your beloved 'conservative' president (who still thinks homosexuality is a serious dissease)!
I really dont understand you Americans and how you can keep up like this and I probably never will. One thing is for sure and that is that the rest of the world laughs at you when the next nipplegate afair is Prime News on TV (while on the background another kid empties a rifle in a school or the FBI places some extra camera's in your house)
cheers!
Sterotyping is uncreative and shows a lack of interest in truly putting forth anything worthwhile. There are many groups of people in America that push all of these various issues you pointed out. At the same time there are groups of people in America that disagree with many of these areas. Then there are some people who will be for some of these issues and yet against some of the others. Or maybe...every American is just as you said...and every Dutch person is a drug addict strung out on the streets of amstermdam visiting every prostitute and attending every sex show they can....or wait...maybe neither is true and this is a forum for games and not for racist unfounded political propaganda crap...
edit: cheers
second edit: P.S. I've been to Holland several times...Amsterdam Den Hague and a few other places. Lived in Belgium for 4 years too....have you ever been to Springfield, Missouri? Oh wait...it doesn't matter does it...because every American is like Enimem and Snoop Dog embracing porn and violence....my bad..you're right
I don't want to generalise ALL americans. What I try to say is that the rest of the world sees it that way. And I was referring to games ;) As politics always put the blame on games when some kid empties a rifle somewhere. Yes we get that news here. Or the Nipplegate afair of GTA in your country that made world news as well ;) But the Janet Jackson Nipplegate really did it tho ....my god.. it was still appearing in the news almost a year later and what was said in the world: "Don't the americans have more serious problems do deal with then the nipple of Janet Jackson?"
It's maybe your media that has been turned into Strict Conservatives... I don't know. Maybe start voting for a Democrat again? (or are they conservative as well?)
And about Amsterdam .... well it's mostly UK and Japanese people coming there to visit the red light district and the coffee shops hehe
this is a funny thread (made me laugh anyway)
i've always wanted a more adult MMORPG for 2 reasons
1/ tedious l33t kid avoidance
2/ childish enjoyment of the amorality of gratuitous sex and violence (and did i laugh when i discovered on GTA vice city that you could pick up a prostitute, have sex, then beat her to death to get your money back and turn a profit!)
"maturity" has nothing to do with it - in fact probably teens would be more eager to play an adult rated game than adults (i certainly would have been all those years ago)
VIOLENCE - it certainly seems hypocritical that most US tv / films seem to involve good guys and bad guys shooting each other, yet this is not a problem since it is so easy for anyone to get a gun
heaven forbid though if there is a blood splatter in a GAME as opposed to a film / tv program
SEX - i was so amused by nipplegate - especially since it was blatantly a choreographed stunt by justin trousersnake and JJ to tear away the top and show the covered nipple (why else would she have it covered?). The rediculousness of the reaction shows the immaturity of the media and political classes. I once saw a documantary on the mid west in the US, where schools actually hired this person to do sex education, and go into classess and tell teenage children NOT TO USE CONDOMS, that they were unsafe
! And parents were happy about this
! (abstention was the (only) preffered method - ROTFLMAO)
So perhaps, if the US can't get their heads around the inconsistency of guns for all / daily images of violence on the small screen being OK but not in a game. A massive porn industry and the objectification of women in music being mainstream, but to actually see a breast being an outrage. They are uniquely inequipped to deal with "adult content" in a game - so lets have it on our european servers.
I don't want to generalise ALL americans. What I try to say is that the rest of the world sees it that way. And I was referring to games ;) As politics always put the blame on games when some kid empties a rifle somewhere. Yes we get that news here. Or the Nipplegate afair of GTA in your country that made world news as well ;) But the Janet Jackson Nipplegate really did it tho ....my god.. it was still appearing in the news almost a year later and what was said in the world: "Don't the americans have more serious problems do deal with then the nipple of Janet Jackson?"
It's maybe your media that has been turned into Strict Conservatives... I don't know. Maybe start voting for a Democrat again? (or are they conservative as well?)
And about Amsterdam .... well it's mostly UK and Japanese people coming there to visit the red light district and the coffee shops hehe
It had nothing to do with which political party was in office or if our media is conservative or not. It was big in the news because sooo many conservative people complained about it. Unfortunately, complaints are always heard louder than praise and of course apathy is even more silent. So it isn't that everybody in America thought that Janet's nipples were going to ruin the world, it is simply that the closed-minded fools who thought so made a big deal out if it.
But back to adult content in games - I also believe that America at this day and time will still have an issue with this because many adults and especially parents have a very difficult time accepting the concept of video games not ALL being intended for children. The GTA fiasco would have never been considered a fiasco had parents a) paid attention to original ESRB rating in ther first place, and b) took the time to notice that if their child was too immature to be exposed to pixelating sexin', that they were too immature to be exposed to the violent and vulgar content that was in the game in the first place.
It isn't that all Americans are boob-fearing gun-toters at all - we most certainly are not. It is merely that those who are hurt the most usually scream the loudest, and that many here are still ignorant about video games and who plays them and why.
Ok that's a comment well put.... to put your mind at rest...you only hear about the extremist sensationalized issues from the mouths of people like Ted Kennedy and Rush Limbaugh. The other 75 percent of the nation are somewhat normal that don't fly to one end of the spectrum or the other but live in the middle with differing opinions on different issues. Being someone that has lived in Europe, Middle-east and America....People are people no matter where you go. Different regions have their own problems...the only difference is that due to America being a free enterprise capitalistic nation...our media sources are huge profiteering companies that make more money out of making big deals out of little stories.
Games...well...games are games. The whole mature rating thing in America is to be a guide for what kind of content will be in a game so that buyers are not surprised about what they thought they bought for their 6 yr old Timmy. Personally, I like the whole rating system. That way I know what I'm getting....or I know what I don't want to purchase.
On the issues being brought up by xauss:
Most people in America are not against violence in films and games...obviously because it is still a huge market. Most Americans are not violent thugs just waiting to beat people up. Most are actually pretty harmless. Heck...most Americans don't even listen to rap...most listen to country music. Most poeple don't own guns in America...although all law abiding citizens have the right to go buy a weapon via a legal process. Most people don't preach about the in-effectiveness of condoms. I saw a crazy guy in Belgium when I lived there who dressed up like Santa Claus and called himself Jesus....some how I don't think every Belgian is like that.
Personally...I thought the nipplegate things was un-called for. People who sit down to watch a sports event shouldn't have to worry about nudity popping out on the tv infront of their little kids. That's why we have ratings and controls in this country. There are channels and times for everything...that way when someone sits down to watch something....they get for exactly what they want.
Is that a bad thing?
On the other hand....it wasn't a big deal to me either. I stopped talking about it the day after it happened...except in humourous reference to "ward-robe malfunctions"
On the topic at hand, a product aiming at a 'M' or maybe even 'AO' is probably commendable in this day and age, since whatever its eventual contend will be, its creators will at least enjoy some freedom as to what they'll gonna do.
Why is that a good thing? On Turbine's LotRo Forums I witnessed discussions on how sexist the women are portrayed in that game, on how much skin they show, on how degrading that is, etc. I think you get the idea. Now have a look at the screenshots from that game. I think you will be hard pressed to find a screenshot showing a female with uncovered arms. In this brave new world that already is pretty sexist, apparently. This may have been some people exercising their special brand of humor, which I doubt, but there's certainly hope.
But there is also this 'T' rated game Everquest 2, it has - sorry, had, a rofl-emote animation where your Avatar would be shown rolling on the floor, laughing apparently, when invoked. You might think this harmless, but the spectre of pornography looms everywhere, because this animation was deemed too offensive for female player characters to perform, as I was told. It was removed. Male or sexless humanoid NPCs in game still get to do it in scripts, but not you.
When a rating of less than 'M' implies some twisted form of an online amish paradise, then yes, I want a 'M' please.
Things like this happen when you aim at appealing a wide customer base. They are bound to, because when trying to appeal to a very large audience, you search for the lowest common denominator, and nothing kills creativity and originality faster than that. What's worse, it probably doesn't even work. WoW wasn't really expected to take the world by storm, it was a surprise hit at the time. While other games which were planned to be global successes phenomenally failed at that endeavor. I'm sure we all can think of one or two such cases.
Other industries already know that the one size fits all doctrine simply doesn't work. You buy different cars in the US than in Europe, and others still in the far east. How many of us do fancy the asian MMO grind model? Yet that is very popular somewhere. So much for the 'global' market.
I am on the internet. And the internet is for porn, as the technicians from the hosting provider keep telling me, as more than half the traffic they get is connected to sexual content. Not really that much traffic from violence related material, which I think is better than the other way around (though both areas seem to overlap in places).
I consider the current crop of MMORPGs rather violence orientated. We hack, slash & blast all kinds of creatures and even each other online.
Now what if a publisher decides to throw a game on the market which basically centers around having sex in the same degree as current MMORPGs center around bashing and killing this and that? Complete with comparable graphics, sound, UI? Guess what? I'd even buy it and subscribe, for novelty value alone.
The religion aspect would be, IMO, the best "adult market". It just have to be developped accordingly.
Take any of these MMOs, most have a dozen or more "Gods" with their Church and all. We have no "direct divine intervention" that we can unquestionnably say it is God or whatever...imagine in a world with GodS, direct interventions and so on...I think they would see far more than a few Crusades, a few Jihads, the Inquisition and so on. Yet, this aspect of the MMOs, is always under-developped...understandably, but...I would personnally like it, if it was more developped.
But that mean having a game that open many canworms...I think devs will cower in fear before they developp such a game to the full extand.
Medieval II : Total War is a game that is developing the religion aspect to a game. God's and Heroes is another game that is delving into the "divine" realm. There are a few games out there expanding on the idea...I think really though to get at what you are referring to you would need to have an MMORPG that is historically based in the first place.
I would find it intriguing personally and would like to see something like that develop.
first post
violence and sexual imagery have nothing to do with maturity. maturity is found in the way one responds to different situations around them. if AoC involves roleplaying a barbarian in a world as described by howard (cant remember his name...forgive me) and a consequence of that interaction happens to be your decision to run around in a loin cloth killing things then so be it. if you are mature, when you kill something in a game, you will realize it as a part of the necessary whole, for you are doing what you are supposed to do, you are interacting with the world in a manner in which you have been told to interact with the world. think about it, from the ground up mmo's often focus on leveling, combat skills, crafting skills that serve supporting roles to combat (potions, armorsmithing etc) so when you log into this world, its not like you have much other choice then to run aruond and kill things and do the a to b, collect 10 cherries-type quests. so, the necessary whole will be found in the end-game where you have become so powerful as to finally conquer or slay the last quest/boss/dungeon thing to pronounce yourself victorious over the situation you were presented with. now, whos to say that you cant be a RL 35 year old female but in the game, roleplay a vile, twisted and immature character of sorts, the kind that drives everyone away from himself and makes everyone think "damn 12-year-olds". it does take maturity to constantly and consistently roleplay a character to this extent. but what would be the end-result, a banning? think about it, from character creation into the tutorials of the game, you are basically being told "this is the character you have chosen (ie a mage), this is what it can do (cast spells), this is what it stands for (fights for the "allied side") and this is how you will "beat the game" (by slaying "arnie") so im not totally sure what is supposed to be "mature" about this kind of an interaction. imo true maturity would be me, in a game, left to my own devices to pick and chose what i will or will not do or what kind of character i will or will not be. realistically this is currently a practical impossibility but im sure in several years we will see more freedom within mmos.
not totally sure what im trying to say here lol...
im 23 and male. if you want a "mature" game why not try check out some of the more mature areas of second life. or perhaps check out a tale in the desert. there are lots of "mature" games out there already that dont involve killing, maiming and the likeness of janet jackson's nipple (my eyesssss noooooooooo)
Most resent games control everything with Encounter locks And anti-Train programsEtc..
You have instances
The list gos on for ever
I have no fun in a totally controled enviroment
When i say im looking for a mature restricted Game
That could mean only some of the servers are restricted to the game
Let the Kids Train the hell out of each other i dont care
And if some adult dont understand the play nice Rule let them be banned to Kids Servers!!!!!
Im tired of Playing in a controled enviroment. Its medeval Fantasy For gods sake.. Isent that supposed to be the wildess thing ever?
I dont care about Nuditie or vilent graphics
I just want a wild Dangerus enviroment
And players in a comunity i know are mature nuff not to be little Prik children That have nothing smarter to do but cause truble for absolutly no othere reson then be annoying and disrespectfull!!!!
As a mature Player i know that and i respect my fellow players.
Wonderfly said! so true!
Mature means something that kids arent really interested in. (not something they badly want but arent allowed). Remember when you were a kid at a family dinner, how the grownups would talk for hours and hours about economy, and it would bore you to tears? Like in dept politics. Or complex research, ecology and world economy. THAT is mature content, something that the younger crowd really has no developed interest in.
(dare I mention the complex systems of bioengineer in swg? boy soe will never fail to burn for that one =/ )
Perhaps grownups really appresiate detailed systems and social "games" ( not hinting to sexual content) on a totally different level, where the younger crowd wants action and bigger stories.
Being an American I can say that we are perhaps the most sensitive consumers as far as what we think of as 'adult'. Most of the things that would keep a game off the shelves here in the states would be barely considered mature for some of our European friends; it's just a difference in culture.
I've lived half my life in Los Angeles and the other half in Europe, and I think the difference in what's given an adult rating is more differentiated than stated:
In America, your product can be very violent, yet still be rated ok for teens.
If there's any nudity or anything sexual on the other hand, you go straight to an adults only rating.
As you pointed out, In Europe, nudity and sexuality is not cause for much worry.
But with violence, its the opposite: your rating will go to mature much quicker than in America.
To put it in one sentence: Americans seem more sensitive to nudity and sex, European regulations seem more sensitive to violence.
maybe they should change ratings to signify whether it will stimulate your reptilian brain or one of the others
Can we get realistic here? It seems so easy these days for people to look at a game that pushes an envelope towards adult content (if you can say that it does really) as if it is somehow Pandora's Box and if we open it, our kids will be warped in ways that otherwise they would never have been exposed.
Folks we are talking about an internet based game. If a kid is clever enough to whip out a credit card and sign onto an MMO to get some "saucy" content in a game or hacked heads, don't you think they could save a lot of time just going straight to Google and feasting on a sea of porn and a mountain of corpse photos? For this reason I find the discussion of whether adult content in an MMO being bad because kids might see it to be kind of petty. It's labeled Mature, they know its there. If the guardian is paying attention they will keep them away from it. But, it won't be any more or less easy than them keeping them from seeing this content in a hundred other ways. Besides that I quite seriously doubt that the content we are going to see are some hardcore sex acts or anything beyond what is shown on regular television.
Point is MMOs are by and large played by adults these days and I for one get a little tired of taming things down to a kids level when statistics show they aren't playing these kinds of games much anyhow.
im 28 and loved EQ1 way back when i was a kid...
But mabe its time We "old" folks faced the music!!
Mabe paying the rent and Car seems like more importent then paying, a online game???
Mabe we realised how silly We were when kids???
Mabe we cant find a good game cause we have moved on with are lives???
I know i have, but still cant bring myself to belive it !!!!
We still crave that old feeling OF Power ,Success Etc...That we got from MMO's But Have Matured and realised how much thos feeling s were just illusions.
Think about it Though!!!!
If any of thes resent games, that have lauched , Had Lauched when i was a kid , id be eating them up like Peanuts At a baseball game..
Just like How i Got myself a pair of MC hammer pants when that was just so cool!!! (wich really was the most awfull pair of pants iv ever seen!)
And wearing my pants down to the floor Cause it just looked so Phat!!! (Witch really was so Annoying to look at )
And how i wore my hat all weird like, just cause i thought it looked so cool. ( man i looked so stupid Though lol)
So What now? Can a MMORPG Game Keep a adults attention Longer then 2 months?
When i was 3 lego' keeped me happy till i was 10 then my Super Nitendo Was great!!!
Then MMORPG Got my attention
Have i out grown MMORPGs? Like I outgrown Lego's at 10?