Gods and Heroes: Rome Rising News - Perpetual Downsizes, G&H Release Delayed
Posted by Keith Cross on Sep 21, 2007 | 65 comments in our forums
Perpetual Entertainment has announced that they will be downsizing their Gods and Heroes development team by 30 to 40 people, citing the need for a less specialized team. PE has also stated that they will support their employees in transitioning to new employment. The game was originally scheduled for a Fall 2007 launch, which has now been pushed back to early in 2008 saying the game still needs more polish. Dana Massey of WarCry spoke to PE Co-Founder Chris McKibbin about these developments.
For the last several weeks, Gods and Heroes: Rome Rising had been in Closed Beta testing. While it is, according to Perpetual, content complete, they felt it needed more polish before it goes to market. "Our feeling was driving hard to make a fall launch would lead to less than high quality results and we've seen that in other launches," he said. "We've made the decision to give the game more time. What we really want to do is to deliver a polished and high-quality game."
The moves were born out of their desire to switch focus to a less specialized development team that he believes will be able to act with more agility on the feedback of the player base. The current marketplace demands high-quality, huge MMOGs and to achieve that they required many specialists who performed very specific functions. That kind of set-up is not perfectly suited to MMOGs in this phase of development.
;)
Read more on the WarCry Network.
As if copying the EQ-style grindfest games wasn't enough, now companies feel the need to copy PR tactics as well. I'm about sick of reading "such-and-such has delayed the release of their game because they feel it needs more polish." We all know that 90% of these games come out looking like crap anyways, no matter how much these guys "polish." If you had to DELAY your game to add more polish, you've already failed. These things need to be taken into consideration long before you have actually made the game. These companies need to stop doing things just because "everyone else is doing it."
While i see your point, they are learning from the mistakes of their competition. Players will not stick around and pay to play a beta game ... They have one shot to make the game work and that is launch day. What they should do instead of delay is open up the beta even more, allow the players to play and critique (or even just to investigate on their own). This will, in the event of a "good" game increase sales at launch as more information regarding the game is released, and more opinions freed from a NDA are released. The downside would be if the game is as you say "crap". That will ultimately lead to the games overall failure. It is a risky choice, but if they believe in the work they have produced over the last few years then this shouldnt be a hard decision.
Just my two cents
Xy
The delay is a good idea. G&H will benefit from the extended beta time greatly.
Kramer0467,
I could not disagree with you more. Adding more beta testers.....who really arent' beta testers but people looking to play the game before its released will not help the situation. Only hurt the image of the game more.
Nice to see them trying to get a better product out, instead of rushing release for the dollar count.
Also, NDA breakers are being reported. If you are in the beta, you are forbidden to discuss what you see in it. Perfect examples of people who are "beta players", not "beta testers".
While I admire and support a delay in order to launch the game polished and high quality,
they think laying off 30-40 employees will enable them to "act with more agility on the feedback of the playerbase"?
What kind of illogical nonsense is that? The game is in trouble.
Delaying the game to polish is one viewpoint which is positive, but laying off 30-40 of your development team at the same time you are delaying the game spells problematic.
Didn't they just announce preorders being available just before this announcement? hehe
After not being able to d/l the client after getting a key,I could care less.This just shows me what the entire span
of the game is going to be like.NOT a good first impression.See ya! One less potential customer here.
I fail to see how this can be a good sign.
Laying off 30 people before launch, no matter how much spin you put on it, is indicative of a problem that is a lot deeper than the flimsy, cliched excuse of "the game needs more polish." This may be true, but it is far from the real reason. Remember, you can polish a turd all you want, but it is still a turd. I think they may get the feeling from beta response that, quite simply, their game lacks the appeal they felt it had and will need to radically change things.
Anyway, I sense another failure in the wings (though I sensed that when this game was announced, but that was merely a hunch). On the bright side, 2008 is going to be the year of the MMORPG. WAR, AoC, and G&H, just to name a few, are all looking to be released in the first half of 2008, if not the first quarter. Unfortunately, the strongest one will get reap the spoils, and the weakest one will be steamrolled and be a footnote in the annals of MMORPG history. Will that be G&H? Maybe, maybe not, but compared to the other two mentioned it seems likely.
Look back to where you see random big players in a company pop into the Forums and/or Chat randomly towards the end of the production cycle during polish/Beta phases. That's the ill attempts at keeping their jobs, they don't really care about the player base.
This is PE's 2nd set of layoffs. Chances are their funding is starting to look more thin then they originally anticipated, and the people at the top know they need to, at least, appear useful in order not to get canned. Laying off 5 artists that would make content will allow you to keep 1 Producer or Director.
So really, they could've laid off 6 - 7 big people, or 30 - 40 little people. Want to guess who got the shaft?
I have been watching this game for sometime now and you should never put "Delay do to polish" and "laying off 30-40 people" in the same headline.
I agree with some of the people here on the forum, is this really a bigger problem in disguise? I am not sure but I have noticed that a lot more games are coming out with delays for this or for that. I am not sure if they are doing that because the majority of people would rather have a finished produce rather then a bugy game. I personally think it would be funny as hell if a game producer threw out a way far out there date and then moved release up for a change.
Anyways I look forward to G&H hell I even tryed to get into beta but my name was not pulled. I blame everyone else in the contest, because without you I would have won
.
Yeah, whilst I find it sad that 30-40 souls lost their jobs, and 'tis true this could indicate a deeper issue beyond simple team makeup as launch approaches, I'm inclined to believe the 2/08 launch will be successful and that this will be a mature game that is "complete" come the go-live date...and that for the most part we will be satisfied and end up buying/subscribing to his (alongside our current beloved games and other games launching early '08). I do not feel overly concerned by this news, and feel it merits only mild eyebrow-raising attention at most (for now). I just hope G&H gets added to SOE All Access because from a socioeconomical standpoint it's an overtly logical win-win-win (for Perpetual, certainly Sony, and most of all...those of us that have SOE All Access already and want to add a great game like G&H to the mix alongside Eq2, Vanguard, Planetside, [Eq1] and SWG).
Well. Coming from a very long stint in 2 supposed MMO's (3 years plus each), I can say that a large staff != a quality game. In one case, the staff grew exponentially, in the other, the staff dwindled to nothing. Not to mention the two which reflect the long played. A smaller staff does not by any means, er mean a less quality product. If you care to know what those games are, one is SWG, where the staff was gutted after the NGE. The game has done nothing but improve since the NGE (not comparing to before, I mean literally since 11/15). They have a skeleton crew, but they are working. The other is SL, and given their growth, and number of staff added, the client has done nothing more than become more instable over time, with customer service going straight to hell, with the only consolation prize being a better sky, and a voice system no one uses.
As for the other two. Lineage 2, which has added CS staff yet gone no where, and MxO, which has cut staff yet dramatically improved bug swatting and game play, but has added nothing to the game content-wise to encourage play. MxO's small staff has done an admirable job minus expansion.
So, Perpetual is cutting staff. I have to say this worries me a little. I have no intention of playing AoC or WAR. Simply because YAFMMO (Yet another Fantasy MMORPG) does not interest me in the least. I am an adult. I read Asimov, Bradbury, and Coupland. Fantasy holds little interest for me. The future, on the other hand, inrtiges (sp) me. So, why post about Rome? Because it is reliable history and not an elf driven concoction of someone's imagination. There is so much that can be done with this title. True beliefs realized, real politics to be engrossed in, true consequences to be shared. This was a good idea, fantasized of course, but Rome actually had a stake in fantasy. The last Rome to launch was a dismal wreck of a game. Rome Rising was scrapped (damn that one looked promising). This one will launch, and I look forward to trying it out.
So, they now have a smaller staff. My guess is they want to cut losses and hope they gain enough to expand after launch. I do wish this title the best. Of the big three for 08, AoC, WAR!!!!!, GnH, this one has had my attention (not in a FB way). I really wish them the best, and hope they can pull off a period that others have completely screwed up.
Also two conspiracy theories. 1) Sony is the publisher, look out for a takeover, at least this time before launch. 2) Aren't these guys STO? If so somebody shoot me. Rome and Star Trek under Sony rule will make me a complete loser.
What a bunch of pure gobbledegook. Love how the idiot spin doctors try to make layoffs look they are good.
All this really says is oops, we are not going to meet our deadllines and we are running low on money so some staff have to be cut.
What kind of fools do these people think we are anyways?
OK well Dalevi1 must be on the payroll of either $OE, Platform publish, or PE 'cuz viewing the post as an attempt of damage control "Every thing's fine here.. we're all fine... how are you?" is the only thing that makes sense.
PE is in serious trouble, and by the looks of it Gods an Heros is bombing, and the chances for Star Trek Online comming out are getting slim. I really doubt if even $OE would consider buying this title to have it go forward, and here are the reasons:
1) $OE has to have learned by now the MMO playerbase will not readily jump in to a game just because. Long gone are the days of incomplete 1/2 baked games that still draw the masses, just because. Not to mention $OE is in serious damage control over this very issue due to the past histories of them and game flops due to incomplete buggy messes that were given to the playerbase. How long did it take EQ2 to recover from it's bad launch? MXO had a serious hic-up in their own combat re-vamp. $OE may never get past the wreckage that became of their NGE bomb dropped upon SWG, and let's not forget that even though it was Sigil that trashed Vanguard, $OE still took a very big hit in credability just being associated with the title.
All that means is it's unlikely that they are ready to jump in and rescue annother game when the fires of SWG, and Vanguard still burn so brightly. Not to mention they have really dropped off of supporting MXO, and Planetside. So does annother fantasy MMO like G&H really mean $OE will pick it up? hrmm... EQ, EQ2, Vanguard.. I think they are covered in Fantasy MMO's. Even if Dalevi1 tries to assure us it's more adult, seeing as there are no elves, and such.. yet the heavy particle effects, Mythic mosters, and sub standard looking combat...
Moving on..
2) Nine months back Perpetual Ent was bragging about the new facility they were moving to, how they were ramping up to hire for STO seeing as G&H was comming into the home stretch... Then it began to all fall apart.
D. Stennett has the famous interview where he states they are starting over on STO, no more interior's blah blah.. the community there revolts, and he states basically "Don't like it, leave now.."
Problems continue for PE with the STO side of the house, so they close the boards, move over to allow STO.net to run rampant in silencing the dissadents, and STO enters a 'dark period of heavy development disscussion'
PE let's slip the STO dev's are going slower than anticipated due to moving over to aid in G&H...
G&H get's mediocre to bad reviews at the recent game con's...
They had slated an Oct launch.. and NOW it get's pussed back? Now 1 week til Oct they push it back.. After open beta 'competitions' and Pre-orders go out.
Now a push back is one thing, but you'd think they could have known it wasn't ready and do this before they open pre-orders, and have a contest here on MMORPG to get into Beta.
What really shows it's going bad is the layoffs. Not a return of the STO Dev's to work on their project, but pink slips...
So what do we have.. inside nine months they go from 1 game long in development, to hiring for their next project, and moving into a better facility to house both teams... to canabalizing one Dev team to aid the other... to layoffs less than a month before launch, which is now pushed back...
Yet they assume we are too stupid to see there is something wrong here... and swallow the PR bull of a smaller more focused team to root out and polish...
Read: Star Trek Online needs more money.
Funny thing is (and it came to my big surprise) ,
that i hear from a friend that G&H actually looks quite good at this point. He actually thinks it looks ready for release.
Go figure
WTF difference does it make guys? Every company downsizes generally AFTER launch to have less specialized teams. This is a GOOD thing.
when you have specialized teams it takes money.. lots of it.. AND communication between teams is at times VERY frustrating and difficult. Sometimes information gets lost between 1 team and another. This causes serious problems in the game that we players have to deal with. They also can't properly communicate players needs between one another. These issues are just human nature.. we forget.. we misplace..etc... it happens.
Anyway, they should be able to really focus on 1 thing at a time, which is what happens to all games as time progresses. They are getting a jump start and improving before it even begins. That is just AWESOME. Learning from past development mistakes.
I for one can be patient as I need to be, because I'm having a absolute blast playing Rappelz. Just an awesome game. If G&H sucks. I'll be playing Rappelz. If G&H rules.. i'll still play Rappelz, but G&H too.
I think this is a fantastic move they are doing and they are helping the other employees find new jobs (which doesn't happen very often). I for one can't wait to get my hands on it, but i'll be patient. I have a beta key, but I don't have the dedicated time to test to their needs. So i'll not be playing.
They are laying off 30-40 people at the exact point they had originally hoped to release, AND they are delaying the game for "more polish"
Reading between the lines, they are out of money, the game is still unfinished, and while they themselves may not have learned the lessons of recent releases soon enough, those giving them what little money they are still getting have. The investors are demanding a reduction of costs and a "polished" release.
If they are doing these things at this point, in all liklihood the game is a turd and will join Horizons, AC2, Vanguard and the imortal Dark & Light in the annals of bargain bin bad games.
Actually the game isn't a turd and it's quite good.
It does need polish.
They are not ready to launch right now. Kudos to PE for recognizing this and wanting to release a quality game.
/agree. Perpetual wil be bought by SoE, and be on the Station pass.
Do any of the laid off employees have blogs? Anyway...
My guess is: the feedback PE has been getting from the beta has revelaed that the game will be just "so-so" in popularity and not the blockbuster the owners hoped for. Management went "uh-oh" and started throwing cargo overboard early to save the ship from sinking.
- Trimming back on staff to make the company more attractive for a buyout. That's what happened years ago at a game company i worked for, nearly 1/2 the staff was laid off just weeks before it was acquired. Apparently it's a common business tactic.
- Timing of release - There's 2 'best' times of the year to ship a AAA game - Oct / Nov just before Xmas and Jan / Feb just after. The danger in waiting til Q1 of 08 is they'll be competing for publicity and subscription dollars with WAR and AoC. Seems like a very dumb move marketing wise.
- "Agile" Project Management - despite the claim of needing to shift to a narrowly focused and specialized team at this stage of development, I don't think that's what going on here. I think instead of waiting til after ship for layoffs and / or reassignments to other projects, they're just cutting back early to save cash.
I don't think new studios should start mmorpg's. They should build years of savings first with other game styles. The publisher NCsoft holds a good model to follow. I would hope that P.E would engage NcSoft. But I am just a gamer and not a businessman. In fact theUS should embrace the Japanese and Korean way of the company model. So should its boards memebers.
Couldn't agree more...... this just reminds me DnL.
How would you know this...unless your breaking NDA? Based on the various material I have seen and read...this game is not any good whatsoever...All quests, boring skills, horrible performance, bland characters, slow combat, no crafting, housing, timesinks...just kill, kill, kill...can we say Grindfest?
No..I think this is a sign...sorry...bye bye GnH!
i would still love to beta test it
How is saying its not a turd and it's quite good breaking nda?
By saying its a good game that needs polish I'm just reiterating what PE has already said. I've told you and everyone else absolutely nothing about my game play experiences in GnH, nothing about the skill system, questing, the combat system, the ui, absolutley nothing.
My opinion is from first hand knowledge, yours is obviously from "reading between the lines", third parties evaluating closed beta (which their not supposed to) and speculation.
Give your head a shake.
PE imo is on the ball, a lot more on the ball than the majority of game developers out there, and I have tested a lot of games.
Someone is confused or lying. Those highlighted posts conflict with each other. Either you are speaking from first hand knowledge which means you are violating the NDA or your opinion is totally bogus because you are just repeating what the developer has spouted off like a parrot.
Most of your post makes sense, the parts where you try to support the argument of me being on a payroll just fail miserably.
Calm down guys, it's simple minded to think that saying a game is good or bad without revealing any actual element details is breaking NDA, you're like a bunch of kids who think they have something to tattle on someone about, but really have no idea what they're saying.
This could go one of two ways:
a) PE is being humble and honest and saying that, though their game is well put together, it lacks certain elements that make this game not only nice looking and fun, but also as epic as one would expect from an MMORPG. You don't need a huge team to put the finishing touches on a game like this. Most of the computer animators, the writers, the character designers, the environment mappers, and some of the supervisors probably have no reason to stick around.
b) The funding is is low, the game is looking bad, and they're ready to write this off as a second-rate game.
My guess is closer to A, but I'm sure money is indeed a factor, I just don't think Things are as bad as most of you think. It's poor management to release a game as soon as you can and with as many people on your team as possible. That's a recipe for financial disaster.
looks like another EQ-clone is bout to bite the dust prematurely. they pushed us PVPers to the side so looks like they are getting whats coming to them
Are you trying to say that the game is about to bite the dust because of lack of PvP?
You are making a childish and naive assumption about the requirements of a legal contract unless you have actually "READ and understand" the the terms and conditions of the specific document in question.
Technically speaking even admitting you are in the Beta is breaking NDA.
Other than a possible 'future sale' move, if the statement about less specialized staff is accurate, it leaves me concerned about future of G&H. All games (well not BIG titles) tend to run into lean times when starting out but if Perpetual is looking to cut more experienced coders/designers/etc in favor of less experienced (insert lower paid here) ones, it means they have a lot of cleanup to do and no money with which to fund the process. Quite scary when referring to G&H's future.
In thier defense though, what I have read and seen (some on the open G&H forums where Beta testers posted accidentally or uncaringly) the game is a fair amount of grindfest somewhat wrapped up in a heck of a lot of quests but still generally fun. From the general opinion I thought G&H sounds like a good game for the Guild Wars type of pricing package. Moderate out of box cost and then free to play. If Perp is changing thier pricing plans, this too could result in the loss of 'less essential' team members.
I'll stil hold out hope for a while, even if I don't end up playing. Hope they make it in the end.
This news was something that was quite expected. I mean look at it this way, all they are gunning towards really is the STO game, G&H is just a front for them to gain more funding to pump into production for STO and the downsizing was a given since i bet all of their best talent is on the STO project. This game will be very lucky to still be running a year from its initial launch.
While I doubt Gods and Heroes will be a success, it will exist for a long time since it does not look absolutely terrible and, more importantly, MMOGs are very, very hard to kill. They are like the James Bonds of the video game industry with their ability to get out of fatal situations.
Games can easily be put on life support and can generate a bit of income from the thousands of people who still play. This is especially true with games that get put in the SOE Station Pass. It is nice to have a thriving game with 200,000+ subscriptions, but 20,000 is doable, too with a minimum of staff.
Mark my words, even if Gods and Heroes bombs, it will be up and running for a few years.
Its a shame.
No offense, but i belive the earlier release date was the only thing going for it.
I lol'd at all the deleted posts on the first page. I never got to read them, but I agree 110% with whatever they said.
Be afraid... SOE takeover imminent, no doubt.
Clearly they are in trouble. I look for SOE to end up owning perpetual AND this game, AND Star Trek Online.
Which is horrible, SOE is the most incompetent and unethical MMO publisher out there.
Not that I had high hopes for STO recently, but this latest announcement troubles me even more.
PVPers are the absolute smallest group of MMOers - they are not an issue one way or another
I would say that both role-players and crafters (the ones that solely craft) are both smaller groups, actually, especially the former.
In fact, past the general PvE crowd, I think the PvP group comes second.
Look at the popularity of PvP servers for games that support different rulesets. Typically PvE is something like 50%-60%, PvP is 30%-40%, and RP is 10%.
I would never underestimate the PvP crowd, particularly after so many people are getting burned out on static content and the loot grind.
Honestly, didn't look like that great of a game. Of course, I'm reading in between the lines that this game won't be coming out, or it will be another half finished turd.
SOE is only publishing the game, PE is in change of designing and making the game.
Sony might as well have mad this a joint press release about their new aquisition and saved us all some time.
PE is cutting overhead and has a prime title in star trek that is way off production. Sony has capital and loves ruining high profile titles. You can already hear the wedding bells.
Don't try and read too much between the lines. So they are laying off 30-40 people at the point they were planning to release the game, and they are delaying the game to add some polish? Makes sense. The main parts of the game are finished. They may not need anymore as many sound people, graphics artists, animation specialists, world designers, etc. The actual polish can be done with less people. And a sound guy may not be the best person to tune the graphics engine or write quests or whatever.
Why didn't they move these people onto another game? It may be fully staffed, may not be at the right stage of development, be on a different budget or whatever. I don't know. Nobody who can post knows. And those who speak can't be trusted because they've already lied on the NDA :).
Here is something to think about.
When I first read that PE was assisting the 30 - 40 people that they were laying-off find new jobs, I thought, that's very nice of them.
But the more I think about it in the context of of all of the other news that leaks out of PE, I believe that the offer of job placement assistance is only a damage control device.
I have no proof, only a gut instinct, that PE is only offering job placement assistance to those that were laid-off, in an attempt to avoid having a flood of disgruntled (former) employees attack the studio on the various online game websites.
Remember the forums after the lay-offs at Vanguards, Siegel? That's when some of those laid of started spilling their guts about the inner workings of the studio.
My only issue is Paramount owns the rights to Star Trek and all of it parts....So, Paramount would be the ones discussing STO. Sony has no ownership of this...so even though SOE may have distribution rights..Paramount may have the final say regarding the ST license..
But, Paramount also is in league with Sony and the Blu-Ray media...who is to say they will not partner in respect to this license...and this could be the infusion of cash PE needs, SOE may be "evil" as everyone says...but, they also have a boatload of cash to work with...which is what it sounds like PE needs right now
Cheers!
"Gods and Heroes development team by 30 to 40 people, citing the need for a less specialized team."
What this says to me is "combat upgrade". The only way you can manage to lay off 30-40 devs specializing in certain areas of the game mechanics is if your planning to revamp the whole system to make it more simple. Anyone who has played a game "published" by SOE knows that gloomy cloud over the horizon.
I have a feeling this game will turn into another SOE dusty gamebox come release. Now I could be wrong and this could mean nothing but, looking at SOE's track record with everything thier involved with minus the everquest series I would be extremely shocked if PE and SOE didn't revamp the game into another EQ2 or WoW clone.
SOE is in this for the money and nothing else, despite thier claims to please players. It's fairly easy to influence developement when you say "look at this game and it's profits, now look at games like yours and thier profits".
This may have been a PE decision to take the game in a new direction but if you think SOE didn't play a role in influencing this then your sadly mistaken.
Gee, this subject seems to have arisen before with Sigil and Vanguard, it ended up with Sigil being bought out by Sony. I don't think it will be too long before PE succombs too. SOE probably could care less about Gods and Heroes, they want the Startrek Online name.
My 2 cents:
They didn't want to "vanguard" the release of the game. So, they push back the release date to get as many bugs out as possible.
But, since they have to push back their release, they also need to cut costs. Letting 30-40 non-critical people go is the easiest way to do that.
Exactly, it's a total PR line. Businesses downsize for ONE REASON ONLY --because of finances.
As others have stated. I don't see the delay as a problem. I have played most all of the major MMOs and they all seem to have one delay or another. Taking their time seems like a good move to me.
However, also what others have said, what sends a red flag for me is the corporate mumbo-jumbo about letting the "specialzed" people go. *cough* You mean you fired people. That sounds like money crunch talk to me. I mean how about let'em become testers? They would be better than testers as they could not only test but probably fix things as they go.
I don't know. Sounds like money crunch talk to me. And I don't think that is a good sign.
I am not crying doooomm by any means but as I said it does send a red flag up for me.
Also, remember that in 2006, they did the SAME THING -- said they didn't need so many devs, and fired a bunch of them. So this is the second time they've done this during the development of this game. That's horrible for morale in the company, if nothing else.
And let us not forget by delaying early next year, that the potential revenue from the Christmas sales have lost. Q1 is not a good time for releasing, ought to wait 'till Q2 for the summer, but the money tree may not be able to support that.
I'm happy, G&H doesn't want to be the next Vanguard. Good for them.
I love those people that want a game to come out early unfinished and when it does they rip it apart about not being done.. Let me guess you aren't still playing Vanguard or SWG. I think they know the real fanbase are the real mmo players not the ones that complain till a game comes out then when it does they don't even buy it. LOL...You are mad because you couldn't download the beta client but that's minor compared to testing a unfinished game so just give it away to someone that doesn't have A.D.D.
Yeah, i dont see laying off 30-40 people is going to do them any good and i would have to say that not only is the game in trouble though i would say the company is in trouble as well. Hmm, i wonder were this puts STO know that they have delayed and i guess going with another no name company for another Startrek title will be a goner as well! Also, Daron Stinnett is a PR whore to be honest and this guy should have been put out to the pastures along time ago.
Iam going to tell you all this right know and iam not going to say how i know about this but ill tell you what PE are hurting for money, they have made many mistakes when it comes to there financing. They have spent a lot of money and they are running a little dry and this is what the second layoff in the last year if iam not mistaken? I suspect that they are in some real trouble and iam even wondering if this title could even see daylight.
As for STO.net those guys are nothing more than the Nazi that will and say and do what ever they are told it why they have and control the flow of what comes out of it. These guys will go after anyone and they will attack you so I would watch out as they are nothing more than lap dogs for PE!
As for the STO title it is owned by Paramount/CBS and they should have in the first place should have gone only with STO. GNH is nothing more than a platform to launch of get more money to build STO.
What people need to realize is that the gaming industry is simply dysfunctional and we have seen this too many times, with Blizzard being the exception and the people who made Guildwars. They are the only two that I have seen that are on the ball and instead of producing half baked games.
Cheers,
Acidrain
http://www.outpostraders.com
Correct me if I'm wrong....
I see a lot of people here mentioning SOE as being the publisher for this game.
Didn't PE abandon the Platform Publishing idea a month or two ago so they could either publish it themselves or with another publisher? Reason I mention it is because PP won't give you oodles of cash, since PP isn't taking a huge chunk of the profits... so if PE wanted more money to get the game out, they'd have to go with another publisher to 'front' them some cash... sounds like that effort has failed and they've got a turd on their hands.
http://www.cuppycake.org/?p=207
http://www.uberguilds.org/radio/node/161
SOE might be 'marketing and distributing' it... but not publishing it... hmmm... ;)
You're not wrong. they canceled out SOE as publisher, as you stated. Which is more than likely why they are in a financial crunch, now.
Think about it.
Any company, not just SOE, who has a nice fat contract which will give them a nice chunk of change and continuing revenue (publishing GnH) suddenly loses that big money-making portion of the contract, they're going to try to get it back.
Any little opportunity to create a hardship on PE, in order to make them rethink the decision and renew the original contract for the benefits of additional funding ( at a higher cost to PE as a lesson for cancelling them out in the first place), would be, and will be, done.
This is not a SOE invented tactic, it is a big business tactic. And it works (for the big business, anyway).
Gods and Heroes is still listed on the SOE site as a station game. There is no press release anywhere I could find saying they parted ways.
I do recall reading one press release when they joined forces that spun a little damage control. Then another later that downplayed SOE's role saying they were not a publisher, but yet they were retaining all the same responsibilities as before. It still sounds like SOE is the publisher.
Can you point to where they split ways with SOE?
http://mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/144515
They didn't split ways, they just removed a portion of attributable responsibilities.
The only difference really between now and when SOE was officially the publisher, is the amount of input and profit share SOE has.
Basically, the title "publisher" gives SOE ( or any other company given the contract) influence over certain things like release dates, since the publisher can put pressure on developers as far as deadlines and release dates, as well as financial pressure by cutting off financial loans and/or extra manpower when money has run out for the devs pre-maturely ( see Vanguard for an example). A publisher also makes a certain percentage of profits or royalties, depending on the contract structure.
Without being contractually recognized as a "publisher" for the game, SOE is relegated to simple "make the DVDs and get 'em on the shelves" - simple distribution and marketing. And they get no money other than a flat fee per unit for production and marketing cost.
This is why, if PE is in financial straits, SOE will be highly unlikely to extend any support - financial or otherwise - to help them through it. Because there is no incentive for SOE to do so. However, it could very quickly turn into a do or die incentive for PE to reinstate SOE as the recognized publisher.
So, if in the near future, PE announces they have again made SOE the publisher, then we know what happened. And then there may be actual cause to fear a SOE buy-out of PE, as was shown with Vanguard.
For right now, I'd say GnH's future is very much up in the air and could go either way. Only time will tell.
I read that MMORPG article and all I got from it was that PE was just downplaying the SOE involvement a little more than previous. I'm sure there are dollar figures behind that move, but it doesn't sound like much changed if anything at all.
I don't see why SOE would baulk at the chance to infuse Perpetual with cash given SOE's track record. They did it with sigil and to a lesser extent monolith. IMHO I would say that PE is the ideal candidate that SOE targets. Struggling game makers with high profile licenses in GnH and ST:O. If perpetual gets deep into financial trouble I doubt SOE would just allow them to give up a little more money in return for publishing rights again. It isn't like they will be in a stronger position to barter for deals than right now. If that happens SOE will be holding all the cards and can extract a greater price like ownership/partnership.
I agree that the future for this company is up in the air, but all the signs are way to familiar with titles that ended up on station pass. Missed releases, loss/change of publisher, staff cuts and financial woes. It is like vangaurd meets matrix in rome.
Dealing with SoE is like dealing with the devil, and I do not mean that in a "SoE is a terrible company that makes terrible games and killed my kitty." SoE usually produces good games (EQ2 is amazing, for example).
My point is that you are dealing with a company that has, for all intents and purposes, unlimited funds, compared to these smaller companies. It is always going to be the superior in any relationship as the one with the money holds all the cards. So, SoE can sit back, wait for a game to falter, and then offer a deal...
This is making a deal with the devil. The flagging company has no choice but to accept their financial and development help, but in turn they need to sign over a massive amount of control and profit if the game succeeds. Since it is either that or bye-bye game, everyone signs over whatever is necessary. This often ends with the company being absorbed be the SoE giant.
Sigil did this with Vanguard, and Perpetual will likely do this with Gods and Heroes. This is how it works when you deal with big business. Taking control of a company in dire straits with a product with some potential is cheap as hell compared to buying out a company with a successful one. Companies at risk of going bankrupt will sign horrid deals to keep going. Do you think SoE paid an amount even close to what Vanguard cost Sigil to develop? I doubt it. They probably paid enough so Sigil could pay off outstanding debts, plus a little more, and that is it. All the other money sunk into development disappeared with no return.