Here are the game features I think an AC3 must and must not have.

Must Haves

Huge seamless world, huge inventory size, complex random loot, ability to heal fast and tank lots of mobs if you have the buffs skills and equipment for it, ability to assign experience points to skills, as many or more skill and stat choices, server wide chat channels, monthly or every 2 month updates, tinkering and salvage or comparable system for crafting, complex dungeons, complex magic system, long long long way to max out levels and/or skills, twitch style combat, Darktide style pvp server with no safe areas, and Ulgrim the drunk town crier.

Must Not Haves

Instances, level dependant system where level determines what fights you can win, graphics that are so good that the team must make sacrifices in the "must haves" list, too many quests to the point where you can level on quests only, a quest panel, a map that shows you exactly where to go to complete all quests, level restricted loot, monster xp based upon your level compared to the monster's level (monster xp should be fixed for all monsters)

My list focuses on keeping ACs greatest and most unique traits in the next game, while keeping it from falling into the traits that every other mmorpg has. Post your opinions.

Originally posted by Falconoffury

Here are the game features I think an AC3 must and must not have.

Must Haves

Huge seamless world,huge inventory size, complex random loot.  Agreed.  Although hopefully there would be some advancements with the loot system to make it more easy to identify "good" loot.  Sorting through loot can be fun, but it can also be tedious.  Keep the complexity, add tools to help sort or something.  I guess simple things such as showing stats by hovering the mouse over the item and showing the stats of your equipped item would go a long way to reducing the tedium of AC looting.  Or something where if you have a ton of bodies around you, you could see all available loot in list form.  I also like how DDO has individual loot for each player.  No arguments over who gets what

ability to heal fast and tank lots of mobs if you have the buffs skills and equipment for it.  I'm not sure about this.  It's cool that you can take on hordes in AC, but when everyone is so self reliant it diminishes the need for teamwork and the ability for players to take on group roles.  Personally this is one of those things that I would sacrifice to some degree in order to have more balanced, team focused gameplay. 

ability to assign experience points to skills, as many or more skill and stat choices.  Maybe.  It will depend on how the class/skill system is built.  There's some discussion on that in another thread.  I've been playing around with an AC trial, and one thing that's been aggravating is the amount of micromanaging that needs to be done, especially at the start when you're raising your skills a lot.  And that's coming from a fairly experienced player.  I'd be willing to at least consider a system that is more like Oblivion where your skills are increased directly by your actions.  Swinging your sword raises your sword skill.  Taking hits increases your defense skill. 

server wide chat channels, monthly or every 2 month updates.  The problem with server wide chat channels on a new MMO is going to be gold (pyreal) seller spam.  I'm for updates as often as possible, but you have to realize that with modern games it takes more to develop content.

tinkering and salvage or comparable system for crafting.  Crafting system- yes.  Hopefully a more diverse and advanced system than what AC has.  Not sure about tinkering.  Maybe at some point. 

complex dungeons, complex magic system, long long long way to max out levels and/or skills.  Agreed.  One thing I loved about AC dungeons was that it wasn't all about grinding through trash mobs and then killing a boss. 

Twitch style combat.  Eh.  Yes and no.  Honestly I have no desire to see zig-zaging, animation breaking, and all that other stuff.  I'd rather see an evolved combat system with some "twitchy" elements. 

Darktide style pvp server with no safe areas  Sure.  All for a hardcore PVP server.  Hopefully there will be more advanced features that some games like AOC and Warhammer are implementing as well.

and Ulgrim the drunk town crier.   Why not!

 

Must Not Haves

Instances  I don't see the problem with having some instanced dungeons.  I'd like to see both. 

level dependant system where level determines what fights you can win.  Agreed 100%

graphics that are so good that the team must make sacrifices in the "must haves" list.  Well LOTRO does an awesome job of offering amazing graphics with excellent performance.  

too many quests to the point where you can level on quests only.  I'm all for AC style questing. 

quest panel.  I don't see what's wrong with a quest log necessarily.  It might be nice to keep track of npc dialog, directions, etc. 

a map that shows you exactly where to go to complete all quests  Agreed.  But a highly functional map would be great (i.e. you can make map notes, share map notes, etc)

level restricted loot, monster xp based upon your level compared to the monster's level (monster xp should be fixed for all monsters)  Agreed

 

My list focuses on keeping ACs greatest and most unique traits in the next game, while keeping it from falling into the traits that every other mmorpg has. Post your opinions.

It seems like you want something that sticks very closely to AC.  I'm more interested in just keeping to the spirit of AC. 

I agree more or less with the OP.

There are a few points that I think need to be altered.

I loved taking on many mobs in AC; that is fine. The problem came with the buffs though. I shouldn't be able to fight numerous extremely high leveled mobs simultaneously. This is what buffing allowed. This ruined certain aspects of the game and made players experience extremely watered down gameplay. Some grew to even depend on buffs. Last time I entered the game, lvl 7s were being handed out and one guy told me he never goes anywhere without them. He was about level 15...

One way they could change this issue: create a skill that limits buffs. A player can only have as many buffs as the skill level permits. Say it adds  buff point system, and once the maximum capacity of buffs is hit, no more spells can be added. Higher level spells cost more points. Clearly, this would not allow a level 15 to easily get a set of level sevens. Even if he did get a level seven buff, the skill would probably only be high enough for one spell, which isn't enough to be so godly that you trample everything, especially since few additional (lower level) buffs could be added. This is, of course, only one method to correct the problem.

If I recall, AC2 had a system where the toon could only go so far from the person who cast the buff before the buff disappears. I only played it once (for a few hours at most) but I remember hearing something like this. This method is ok, but doesn't help if a patron is power-leveling a vassal or friend. I also don't mind if the player receives a little help from some other source, as long as it does not completely break down the gaming experience like it does now.

My only other concern is tinkering. I don't mind crafting, nor do I mind salvaging and whatnot, but the tinkering system got out of hand. It was absolutely required in order to become even half way decent. It was not very complex. Really, it was just enhancing weapons and armor to become extremely overpowered. I would like to see a crafting system that melds some of ACs ideas with newer crafting concepts. I am not much of a crafter though, so my opinion probably doesn't have much weight here >.>

I think there should be some instances, but very few. I like it the way AC had it, but there were some quest areas that would have been helpful to have some form of instancing. Places like the Lugian Citadel, for example, should not have instancing though.

Originally posted by Kindelnol

I agree more or less with the OP.

There are a few points that I think need to be altered.

I loved taking on many mobs in AC; that is fine. The problem came with the buffs though. I shouldn't be able to fight numerous extremely high leveled mobs simultaneously. This is what buffing allowed. This ruined certain aspects of the game and made players experience extremely watered down gameplay. Some grew to even depend on buffs. Last time I entered the game, lvl 7s were being handed out and one guy told me he never goes anywhere without them. He was about level 15...

One way they could change this issue: create a skill that limits buffs. A player can only have as many buffs as the skill level permits. Say it adds  buff point system, and once the maximum capacity of buffs is hit, no more spells can be added. Higher level spells cost more points. Clearly, this would not allow a level 15 to easily get a set of level sevens. Even if he did get a level seven buff, the skill would probably only be high enough for one spell, which isn't enough to be so godly that you trample everything, especially since few additional (lower level) buffs could be added. This is, of course, only one method to correct the problem.

If I recall, AC2 had a system where the toon could only go so far from the person who cast the buff before the buff disappears. I only played it once (for a few hours at most) but I remember hearing something like this. This method is ok, but doesn't help if a patron is power-leveling a vassal or friend. I also don't mind if the player receives a little help from some other source, as long as it does not completely break down the gaming experience like it does now.

My only other concern is tinkering. I don't mind crafting, nor do I mind salvaging and whatnot, but the tinkering system got out of hand. It was absolutely required in order to become even half way decent. It was not very complex. Really, it was just enhancing weapons and armor to become extremely overpowered. I would like to see a crafting system that melds some of ACs ideas with newer crafting concepts. I am not much of a crafter though, so my opinion probably doesn't have much weight here >.>

I think there should be some instances, but very few. I like it the way AC had it, but there were some quest areas that would have been helpful to have some form of instancing. Places like the Lugian Citadel, for example, should not have instancing though.

i really like the your idea of  creating a skill that permits what level buffs can be used on you

but, maybe it could be a strict system, instead of a skill too..  for example

level 1-5: Level 1 buffs

Level 6-15: Level 2 buffs...

i didnt apply any logic to ^ these level/buff restrictions, just jotted these down for sake of making an example .

anyway, i think the buff restriction would help a lot. it would also prevent powerleveling but i dont know if thats something theyd want to do. maybe

A buff restriction based on level could work.

The reason I suggested a skill restriction is because I think certain classes would require more buffs than others. For example, a mage not only needs to buff his magic but also needs better protection. If the skill was based on a similar formula to magic like Focus+Willpower, then they would tend to have more buffs than a melee spec.

Also, the idea is intended to restrict the number of spells one has on himself, not just the rank of spells. This way the player is not 100% dependent on the buffs like in the previous version. This could be restricted by level if the system was incorporated right. Say at level 1-5 they can only have X amount of lvl 1 buffs on them at one time.

Either way, I think some buff restrictions could really help, both for grouping and soloing. 

I think a change in item magic is required too. I think it would be better if one buffs an entire set when buffing his equipment, vice each individual piece. It multiplies the amount of effort required to buff the ones items quite a bit. Weapons and shields would not be part of the armor set buff. They would have to be buffed independently.

Originally posted by Kindelnol

A buff restriction based on level could work.

The reason I suggested a skill restriction is because I think certain classes would require more buffs than others. For example, a mage not only needs to buff his magic but also needs better protection. If the skill was based on a similar formula to magic like Focus+Willpower, then they would tend to have more buffs than a melee spec.

Also, the idea is intended to restrict the number of spells one has on himself, not just the rank of spells. This way the player is not 100% dependent on the buffs like in the previous version. This could be restricted by level if the system was incorporated right. Say at level 1-5 they can only have X amount of lvl 1 buffs on them at one time.

Either way, I think some buff restrictions could really help, both for grouping and soloing. 

I think a change in item magic is required too. I think it would be better if one buffs an entire set when buffing his equipment, vice each individual piece. It multiplies the amount of effort required to buff the ones items quite a bit. Weapons and shields would not be part of the armor set buff. They would have to be buffed independently.

  Good point about different classes requiring more buffs like mages, i hadn't even thought about that. Yeah, the skill for buff restrictions would definitely be based on focus + willpower or one or the other.

You should post that idea on the turbine boards, they have a thread setup by the devs.

Continuing my less-likely idea... the buff restriction based on level could could somehow differentiate between mage and melee and so mages would get higher buff limits and ranks than melees.

your idea of buff restriction based on skill seems better though.

If ac3 does not have decal: there wont be buff bots, so  it is also  a possibility that the devs wouldn't care about buff restrictions.

I agree about item magic. It takes so much effort buffing pieces individually.

You all forgot that getting buffed by higher level characters created a community within the game.  This along with the Patron/Vassal system was the only reason there was interaction between players. 

I agree with just about everything the OP says. 

I will add that AC3 also must have...

   Item Loss Death Penalty, Patron/Vassal system, And Carbon Copy the entire AC1 weapon/ armor/ item inventory.  Nobody has come close to matching the different looks and combinations your character can wear.

Being able to buy things from a vendor that another person has just sold!  This also was a fun pastime.

Also bring back the lugian character type from AC2 that could build walls and turrets and such! it was a blast!

Ac3 Must not have.... Bind on Equip items,  Instances ,  Macros , Cookie Cutter skill trees, Level caps, and that  freaking white rabbit!@!

Buffing isn't the only thing that bound vassals and patrons. Items and questing did its fair share too. I came to a point where my sword toon was doing 7s by himself and I still did loads with my patron. I also almost caught up to him in level, so I guess that created a different kind of relationship that many vassals/patrons didn't have.

Besides, buff restrictions can still allow players to get buffed by others, just not to the extent of becoming a god among men.

I agree with all of your have nots except for the white rabbit . I loved that thing! =D

Originally posted by beavil

You all forgot that getting buffed by higher level characters created a community within the game.  This along with the Patron/Vassal system was the only reason there was interaction between players. 

I agree with just about everything the OP says. 

I will add that AC3 also must have...

 

   Item Loss Death Penalty, Patron/Vassal system, And Carbon Copy the entire AC1 weapon/ armor/ item inventory.  Nobody has come close to matching the different looks and combinations your character can wear.

Being able to buy things from a vendor that another person has just sold!  This also was a fun pastime.

Also bring back the lugian character type from AC2 that could build walls and turrets and such! it was a blast!

 

 

Ac3 Must not have.... Bind on Equip items,  Instances ,  Macros , Cookie Cutter skill trees, Level caps, and that  freaking white rabbit!@!

WHAT are you CRAZY, No POOKIE!!!!  OMG POOKIE is the only creature on Dereth that would survive the world being over run by Olthoi or Tuskers.  I think it would even kill the Olthoi queen.  I loved Pookie, except I never did find that Holy Hand Grenade to kill him with. :)

I don't like all the talk about restrictions on buffs. AC is all about freedom. Its lack of restrictions is among its greatest features.

Perhaps the buffs can have a reduced effect or random negative effects if the target character is too weak to handle it. It would be more logical and players would still have the choice of getting buffed.

Originally posted by Falconoffury

I don't like all the talk about restrictions on buffs. AC is all about freedom. Its lack of restrictions is among its greatest features.

Perhaps the buffs can have a reduced effect or random negative effects if the target character is too weak to handle it. It would be more logical and players would still have the choice of getting buffed.

Even AC had restrictions (for example, on weapons). Buffs had absolutely no restrictions and frankly it helped ruin the game.

The effect of the buffs was never a problem for me. It was getting something undeserved (level 7's at lvl 10). Offering a debuff for overwhelming buffs doesn't seem any more logical to me than a buff-limiting skill. I am not sure it would even work because it sounds like it would cancel the buffs out, thus making them pointless (thus it would be no better than the idea I presented) or it wouldn't cancel them out and we would still be presented with the same problem.

AC had limits based on skills. I do not see why buffs should be any different. I understand your concern, and would even agree, if players did not abuse the power they could acquire. You cannot expect plalyers to do it right, so one needs to limit it. By offering a skill to do so, the amount and level of buffs is really in the player's own hands (based on how relevant they made the skill in their template).