I wanted to ask this question here, because... I figure you all have played AC1 and many other MMO's as well (quite likely far more than I have).

What MMO have you played since AC1 that you consider to be better than AC1?

Why?

In all seriousness, I don't think I have.  AO came close, but nothing compares to the experience of playing Asheron's Call right around the Shadow Wars.  Nothing.  (And let's not even talk about Darktide -- someone could write a Ph.D. dissertation on community formation, human nature, and economics around that server.)

I'm willing to give any game a try that someone who knew and loved AC1 really considers to be superior to AC1.

/gren

I have played a lot of MMOs and none have come close to what I experienced in AC (I also played during the shadow wars)

WoW is the only other MMO to keep my interest for a long time aside from AC. Ryzom and Eve also kept me playing for a little.

So far EVE is the only game I've found to be better than AC1.  And not in the same ways.. I'll still love AC1's PvP hands-down, but EVE is the only one after years of trying different MMOs that has been able to hold my attention.  Class-based games just haven't been able to give me fun like AC's skill/attribute system did.  EVE at least gives you the customization for character builds that AC1 did.

There hasn't been one for me yet.

Was with AC from launch for just over 5 years.

AO was a close 2nd since it had a skill/attribute system somewhat similar to AC, although very restrictive.  I played that for about a year and a half off and on, but no where near the dedication of AC.

I liked SWG alot at release but it's no where near the game it was then.

Most MMO's seem to be hell bent on premade classes.  Granted, I'm sure that makes it easier for the devs to balance content, but if I want 10 focus on my melee guy, I should be allowed to make him that way.  The imagination was the limit for the playerbase in AC as far as player creation and that was one of the many things that made it so great.  It was a true sandbox MMO, probably of the likes we'll never see again.

Originally posted by Einherjar_LC

There hasn't been one for me yet.

Was with AC from launch for just over 5 years.

AO was a close 2nd since it had a skill/attribute system somewhat similar to AC, although very restrictive.  I played that for about a year and a half off and on, but no where near the dedication of AC.

I liked SWG alot at release but it's no where near the game it was then.

Most MMO's seem to be hell bent on premade classes.  Granted, I'm sure that makes it easier for the devs to balance content, but if I want 10 focus on my melee guy, I should be allowed to make him that way.  The imagination was the limit for the playerbase in AC as far as player creation and that was one of the many things that made it so great.  It was a true sandbox MMO, probably of the likes we'll never see again.

I'm not as pessimistic -- I hope that some intelligent devs out there realize there's a fortune to be made by taking the best ideas of the great games and creating a new sandbox game.  AC was such an enormous innovation that I still haven't seen some of its ideas implemented to be equal.

For example... the Patron/Vassal system.

I know the XP chains kinda ruined it, but fact is, I have yet to see an in-game mechanic that really, truly encouraged higher level characters to really help out lower level characters, and provided a solid, tangible benefit to those individuals who took the time and energy and the headaches to run a large guild.

Another example... zoneless, truly vast, truly explorable world.

I haven't seen its like since AC.  Remember those Arwic-Qalabar Naked Races?  That was no quest designed by devs; it was something the playerbase thought up because the world allowed such a thing.  I remember sometimes logging in with nothing to do, nothing planned, and just going running across the Obsidian Plains just to sightsee.   Not even WoW offered me that sort of 'questing' experience.

Another example.. the original, scroll-less, spell system in AC1 that had you up for hours on end trying to figure out the taper combination for Lightning Bolt VI.  Any archmage you went to, you'd see dozens of mages sitting around yelling "Zojak Quareth" or whatever and fizzing.  There was incredible balance built into that system of magic -- yes, it's enormously powerful, but you'd have to spend hours, days even, to gain that power.  Just like how a mage should be.  And those players who wanted to spend that time were few and far in between -- just like how a mage should be.

The skill-based character builds resulted in some fantastic, original builds.  Remember the Grief BM?  The 3-school archer?  I remember seeing a BM in a PvP duel whip out a Hollow Sword and rip the other mage to shreds.  I have never seen such freedom to experiment in ANY other game since AC.

Add in some of the good ideas/good things from other MMO's -- I'm personally in favor of the instanced Random Mission system in AO that you and a few friends can knock out in 20 minutes.  Great for those times when you want to do something in a group but don't have hours to do anything major.  I loved the freedom of Yalmahas (personal flying vehicles) in AO.  The aggro-mechanism of AO was also superb and really allowed for true Tanks, true DPS, true Support.  The active combat system of DDO is unparalleled in my experience so far.

And Darktide.  What a great world.  As long as the devs resisted doing ANY balancing for the sake of PvP, a world like Darktide was and will be an amazing sociological experiment.

I think in time, it'll rise again.  The Fifth Generation MMO's are out of ideas.  They're trying to spice up the gravy, but forgetting the meat underneath.  Eventually, a great developer will arise and harness a great graphics engine (someone license Crysis Engine please) to a great, open-ended game engine and we'll have the game that will redefine the MMORPG genre.

And I suspect it'll be a LOT like Asheron's Call.

/gren

I don't think any game made since AC can be a called a derivative of it. Games like Dark Age of Camelot, World of Warcraft, and Lord of the Rings Online are derivative of Everquest. It is the reason I still play AC, because nobody has made a better one. I almost made the jump to Star Wars Galaxies in the early days, because some of the ideas were derivative from AC, but the game was more a derivative of Ultima Online, and the combat upgrade destroyed any hope for that game. I might try Eve Online if I get bored.

OMG I loved this, "Naked Runs", hell I remember playing AC in the first week and not knowing anything about magic.  We thought we were doing good being able to kill level 15 shreths...LOL.  Making runs to Qulabar were like a death trap before we learnt about portals.  I remember the first time I saw a character opened portal, I clicked on it and was whisked away with my mule to a dungeon where I fell 100ft to start.  You all know where I was, I thought wow this is cool, I survived the fall because my mule was a previous character.  So I walked down the ramp a bit just to see, and I saw a UA attacking what looked like an insect and there were hundreds behind that one.  I was like, "COOL!!" untill one chased me back up the ramp, I quickly exited only to be greeted by 3 more outside that killed me very quickly.  I didn't even have time to see where I was on the map, so I had to ask around and found out I was at the BDC, and then I had to find a portal there. 

Man the times I had in that game, learning magic, taking on my first 100 Olthoi, meeting my first Tusker.  Oh yea and being the first Sword fighter on my server to take down a Diamond Golem the morning of the patch.  Took me 15 minutes, oh and we can't forget the White Bunny of doom, I still want to know where the holy hand grenade is in AC to kill that thing...LOL.

The times in AC were great, your character was original, it didn't matter what you did somewhere you were different from everyone around you.  One person would do the 10/100/10/100/10 type character but everyone would raise skills differently.  Truely a one of a kind MMORPG, and still one of the best.

What game have I played that comes close to AC, I have to say nothing.  I have played most of the big titles, but none come close.  I thought AO was cool but too many problems from beta to release to almost a year afterwards for me.  I would think the only MMORPG that seems like it might come close, but I won't know till it is released or I am in Beta will be "The Chronicals of Spellbourn".  I am not saying it will be a match but it might come close, it offers you true skill development which seems good so far.

We won't talk about the biggest joke to an AC1 player ever, the release of AC2.  Honestly I gave it a chance had 2 max level characters, a Lugi that set up turrets(can't remember class) and a human Mage.  In AC1 your character was defined by your skills, you skills allowed you to survive.  How many people who played AC1 remember going into a dungeon and dieing like 5 times and loseing everything.  Going back with a store bought weapon and a robe buffed by a nice mage, and retrieving all of your crap?  I do it happened to me constantly, I think by level 75 I had like 800 Deaths on one character...LOL.  AC2 and I have to say EVERY MMORPG out there, your success is dependent on your gear, not on your skills.  Side note the Rogue in WOW although powerful with starter weapons in PVP could not go into a high level instance and help kill Rag, In AC1 you could go into MOST dungons with nothing but your weapon and a robe and survive.  At least untill hollow weapons were introduced, then that got a bit dangerous.

So the short answer to the question, "What MMO Was/Is Better Than AC1?"  is Nothing touches it.

Originally posted by Grenfell

 

Originally posted by Einherjar_LC

There hasn't been one for me yet.

Was with AC from launch for just over 5 years.

AO was a close 2nd since it had a skill/attribute system somewhat similar to AC, although very restrictive.  I played that for about a year and a half off and on, but no where near the dedication of AC.

I liked SWG alot at release but it's no where near the game it was then.

Most MMO's seem to be hell bent on premade classes.  Granted, I'm sure that makes it easier for the devs to balance content, but if I want 10 focus on my melee guy, I should be allowed to make him that way.  The imagination was the limit for the playerbase in AC as far as player creation and that was one of the many things that made it so great.  It was a true sandbox MMO, probably of the likes we'll never see again.

 

I'm not as pessimistic -- I hope that some intelligent devs out there realize there's a fortune to be made by taking the best ideas of the great games and creating a new sandbox game.  AC was such an enormous innovation that I still haven't seen some of its ideas implemented to be equal.

For example... the Patron/Vassal system.

I know the XP chains kinda ruined it, but fact is, I have yet to see an in-game mechanic that really, truly encouraged higher level characters to really help out lower level characters, and provided a solid, tangible benefit to those individuals who took the time and energy and the headaches to run a large guild.

Another example... zoneless, truly vast, truly explorable world.

I haven't seen its like since AC.  Remember those Arwic-Qalabar Naked Races?  That was no quest designed by devs; it was something the playerbase thought up because the world allowed such a thing.  I remember sometimes logging in with nothing to do, nothing planned, and just going running across the Obsidian Plains just to sightsee.   Not even WoW offered me that sort of 'questing' experience.

Another example.. the original, scroll-less, spell system in AC1 that had you up for hours on end trying to figure out the taper combination for Lightning Bolt VI.  Any archmage you went to, you'd see dozens of mages sitting around yelling "Zojak Quareth" or whatever and fizzing.  There was incredible balance built into that system of magic -- yes, it's enormously powerful, but you'd have to spend hours, days even, to gain that power.  Just like how a mage should be.  And those players who wanted to spend that time were few and far in between -- just like how a mage should be.

The skill-based character builds resulted in some fantastic, original builds.  Remember the Grief BM?  The 3-school archer?  I remember seeing a BM in a PvP duel whip out a Hollow Sword and rip the other mage to shreds.  I have never seen such freedom to experiment in ANY other game since AC.

Add in some of the good ideas/good things from other MMO's -- I'm personally in favor of the instanced Random Mission system in AO that you and a few friends can knock out in 20 minutes.  Great for those times when you want to do something in a group but don't have hours to do anything major.  I loved the freedom of Yalmahas (personal flying vehicles) in AO.  The aggro-mechanism of AO was also superb and really allowed for true Tanks, true DPS, true Support.  The active combat system of DDO is unparalleled in my experience so far.

And Darktide.  What a great world.  As long as the devs resisted doing ANY balancing for the sake of PvP, a world like Darktide was and will be an amazing sociological experiment.

I think in time, it'll rise again.  The Fifth Generation MMO's are out of ideas.  They're trying to spice up the gravy, but forgetting the meat underneath.  Eventually, a great developer will arise and harness a great graphics engine (someone license Crysis Engine please) to a great, open-ended game engine and we'll have the game that will redefine the MMORPG genre.

And I suspect it'll be a LOT like Asheron's Call.

/gren

Oh man this post brings back fond memories, things we'll probably never get to experience again in a MMORPG.

I Agree, AC was the best game ever, period.

I played into the Throne of Destiny expansion and would still be playing today if there was any kind of population still there.

As other posters said, one of the best aspects of AC was the ability to completely customize your character, picking your own combination of skills, creating something unique.

AC also had the best player base I've ever seen in a game.  People were always willing to help you retrieve your corpse, or form pick-up groups for quests/dungeons.  Hell, you could have fun with AC people just hanging at the mansion and having jumping contests to see who could jump from one part of the mansion roof to another, etc.

And just being able to take off in any direction and explore and actually find something worth seeing, ah, how I miss that.

No other game even comes close.

Imo, there is no and has never been any mmog that comes close to AC1 in the matter of fun factor and even the loot system is the best ever.You do not have to join the same raid 68 times and hope that the boss will drop the item you need(and that item is never unic) but you can find something unic every time you fight a mob grouped or solo. Asherons Call is a unic game and I'm afraid we will never see anything like it ever again.

I too loved all the features already mentioned, but random lewt was another one of my favorites (a feature that you essentially never see in other MMORPGs). It was great fun rummaging through dozens of items after a long days hunt, and sometimes finding that true gem. And even hanging around the NPC shops waiting for the stuff the higher level players were dumping could be a rewarding past time in AC1.

But...SWG came very close to recreating the quality of the AC1 experience for me. However I took a sabbatical waiting for those screwball Sony devs to get their act together and quit nerfing my Creature Handler, only to be thinking about coming back right when the NGE hit. So I never did get a second chance. Though that may be changing soon. But at this site I'm not allowed to talk about why. So I won't.