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Hero's Journey News - A Visit to Simutronics
Posted by Jon Wood on Jun 05, 2007 | 53 comments in our forums
Staff Writer Adele Caelia recently visited the Simutronics offices where they are making the MMORPG Hero's Journey. Today, she files her report.
I recently had the honor of spending the day with the developers of Hero's Journey at the Simtronics studio in St. Charles, Mo. I approached the day with a bit of curiosity as to what I would find, having never been in an actual game studio before. As I approached the front doors I found an artist sitting upon the steps, his sketchpad in hand, enjoying the nice weather the St. Louis area has had recently. He didn't seem to notice me, and why should he? It was very obvious that he wasn't in Kansas anymore, but in the far off world of Elanthia. In this world, the reporter does not exist. This is a world where only Heroes are to be found. Not wanting to force him to leave such a happy place I walked on past without disturbing him and entered the building.
When I entered the studio, a very pleasant woman behind the front desk and the Simtronics guardian hound named Xena greeted me. I am pretty sure both were elite mobs and I wasn't about to go any further without their permission! Lucky for me that they were non-aggro, and instead of being attacked, I was quickly introduced to Developer Eric Latham, and soon after met the head honcho, Lead Designer Stephanie Shaver. It was a very pleasant surprise to find a woman in charge (and also a dead give away that the game will naturally be a success... I joke.).
;)
Read the whole article here.
Uh...the link is broken :)
Detailed character customization, multi-classing, and combat more than just auto combat – it has my interest.
Good support for roleplayers will make me buy it, I'm looking forward to it.
This is a nice feel good piece and certainly there is much to like about the concept of Heroes Journey . I find a lot of its concepts very innovative and refreshing.
But the questions the writer apparently didn't push with Simu, and merely alluded to in the last paragraph, is the growing belief that this game will never see the marketplace. Personally, I would have started there and satisfied myself this game actually has a future before getting into the details of one that probably does not.
YOU, posting this over and over again, does not make it a "growing belief". It just makes you sound like a broken record and look dumber with the release of each new bit of information.
Jonny.
The game you are seeing has not been in production for 10 years, it is a different game than the original game, which would be now called vaporware. All it shares is the same name and same company making it. This game can't even be said to have been in production for 7 years. They fully admit that they were not working on the game all that much for about three years while they developed the Hero's Engine. Essentially, we have a game that we could maybe put a man hour equivalent of 5 years to.
Great article. I hope to see more soon. Not sure if I'd believe EVERYTHING mentioned in it, but we can hope.
Let's see some good video footage of gameplay soon please!
I don't think the game is a 100% vaporware but it's sure a frustrating game to follow with spurts of info followed by LONG tracts of silence.
As a fellow member of the industry, I must say, I am rather shocked by the overall state of the ergonomic working environment displayed in those photos. While I have to admit the chairs do look quite comfortable, I'm appalled by the seemingly general absence of underarm support and secondary desk lighting.
Now, granted I have no idea of how the actual working conditions are for these employees, however, I sincerely doubt I could manage such conditions myself anymore. I have had my share of both carpal tunnel syndrome and debilitating migraines as a result of poor working conditions, I'm sorry to say, and I suppose I merely expected more from a company with such a corporate history as Simutronics.
However, these are just my personal observations at any rate.
Looking forward to reading the rest of the article.
Edit: "a" relocation.
Vaperware? I think not. In fact, I predict more information being released "soon" now that they're focused more on development of the game than that of HeroEngine.
Glass half full for me, thanks.
Uhh *looks at the one guy with an armrest in the picture and the poor fellow barely fits in the chair* since all the chairs look alike im guessing they all have the same armrest. As for lighting..i dont know what it is about artist guys they like it dark which is why i had to resort to bringing my own desk lamp to where I work at. Course I atleast have a sectioned off cozy cubicle lol.
When this game finally sees the light of day I'll be totally excited!!!
Yes, I did in fact notice that the chairs have armrests when I first looked at the pictures, however, I also noticed that none of them are actually level with the surface of the table and so wouldn't provide the proper support of the underarm by my own estimation.
Now, I'm not so deluded as to think that I can sit here and lecture you on ergonomics in the working environment, of course. Therefore I shall merely say how it is my firm belief, as a graphics designer of the past 7 years and ongoing, that complete support of the lower arm is absolutely vital in order to avoid unnecessary pressure on the carpal tunnel for extended periods of time. As such I personally find that an extension of the desk surface is the best solution.
Oh and I wouldn't dream of doing any prolonged screen work without my architect's lamp but that may just be me.
I know its vital I pretty much went to my boss and was like look this chair I have you provided me is causig me to burn through money for back adjustments and everything else so I got my chair. Alot of people dont' realize they can ASK for another chair or bring one. Some don't even honestly care. I love having my lamp I dont know / understand how the artists here can function without proper lighting. Infact I think one of those jackels turned one of the over head lights bulbs off near my desk so i have to complain again.
btw this is completely off topic we should drop here since we agree i was merely stating they HAVE arm rests even if the chair isn't ergonomic and the lighting IS bad but I can bet those Guys WANTED it that way. Game programmers / Artists are weird beasts in my experience.
The list of races hasn't changed since our last reassessment. There was a minor error in the article. It has been corrected (along with a couple others). Qwi are still Ilvari-Burian hybrids.
There will still be morphing. The Ilvari-Burian-Human morph you saw at E3 and in some movies was just a proof of concept . We are anticipating that each race will have three morph targets to shift between, and in the case of the Silvan (Ilvari-Human), Qwi (Burian-Ilvari), and Dranaar (Burian-Human), we are going to be morphing between their parent races to give that mixed look.
This is still somewhat in development, though. We'll be playing with that feature in the engine sometime at the end of this month or start of the next. I hope to get our new AV dude working on getting some movies of just this sort of thing up...sometime.
Thanks to all of you with your kind words. They are greatly appreciated here at the offices. And man, I look half-asleep in that photo. :P
As far as ergonomics go -- my office is usually quite dark, with natural lighting. We purposefully turn off all the lights in the art section because the artists request it. The chairs are raised and lowered as per the individual's preference. Josh S. is a low-rider. He's also an artist. And as we all know, artists are nuts.
It's not just me. And don't confuse news with fluff. By contrast, and to illustrate my point, check out the Warhammer Online monthy newsletter if you want to see what information is, and how much information there is when a game is on track and being made. That's just one example. I'm not touting that particular title.
But seriously, why not ask some of these questions?
Are you still on track for a 2007 release as your website says?
When is the beta?
What is the target date for release?
How much of the game is complete?
How many classs are finished?
How many races are finished?
What parts of the world are finished?
And so on. I welcome being proven wrong! If this game is for real I will play it1 Show me something tangible. All we ever get are warm fuzzy what it's gonna be stuff, or things they did years ago. So there are lots of hairstyles? We knew that over a year ago. What has actually been done that is new in the last year?
As an artist, I can explain why this is.
When doing sketches and the like on paper, we generally like more light. However, when using the computer, heavy lighting, especially overhead florescent lighting, causes terrible glare issues and causes a lot of eye fatigue and headaches. Low and indirect lighting is much better for long term work on computers. Even eye doctors have recimmended it to my fellow artists to help stop the headaches.
The reason for this is the nature of the environment. The screen generates color by producing light. The brighter the color, the more light needed. Since the light is already being sent directky to your eye, you don't need another direct light source. If you are reading a piece of paper or drawing on it, you need the reflection of light to see what's on the paper. The screen is already producing all the light you need for it, so now you just need a small indirect lamp to see the keyboard and anything else on your desk.
I hope this clears up this issue for you. As an electronic production consultant for over 15 years, I've had to explain this very situation over and over again, so I'm quite familiar with it. It seems to contadict what we've been told by our parents growing up, but computers, and more importantly the screens, work differently. Once that's acknowledged, it makes perfect sense.
As foe HJ, I've been following it's progress for some time. I loved the article and share the same frustration about the lack of additional info, but that's just because of I can't get enough. Once the game is out, I'll be a very happy camper.
In the MMO industry, for every good apple there are 10 rotten. HJ and BioWare MMO's are mostly consisting of good apples! That is incredible.
To say I am hyped, that I am a fanboi or such comment would be underrated. I am not blind, and I would fire at will at the first sign of betrayal from any devs. But, they just seem to understand what they have to, and to work on strong basics.
I doubt I would be subscribing to two MMOs at once ever, but, I could afford to. I definitely plan on trying HJ, even if they are definitely not on my top expectations, they are on the "to try list". They have everything to keep me addicted to their game, only time will tell if they will.
Nice article and nice to see the guys at Simultronics getting the MMO part of this project back on line. It amuses me that posters such as Amathe seem to have such a negative approach and it is my hope that Simultronics will stick to their guns and develop as they see fit.
What is interesting is I believe that the concept of Beta will not be the norm as it will be mainly stress testing, I believe the content will be at a pretty polished level as well as the game mechanics. If they just get 70% of the complexity contained within there MUD offerings into the charachter dev code and the environment this game will be exceptional. A real challenge in a real 3D environment.
The sale of the Hero Engine to other Developers will almost certainly ensure that this game will go live due the MMO elements of this being developed no by multiple sources.
Can't wait...
Well put I guess Amathe has to keep the boards rolling shame that he/she/it will be considered a laughing stock if he/she/it continues to add no apparent value to these orums...
You and one other person thinking its vapourware - dont make a growing belief. Peddle your conspiracy theories somewhere else.
If you are so desperate to protect people from themselves - cant you join the CIA?
So they are slow to update their website - big deal. If this game comes out in 2008 or 2009 I will be happy and play it then. Until then - I dont loose sleep over it.
Warhammer is close to release so yes they are peddling the marketing.
I think you might be confusing marketing with product development. Phosphoros got it right in his post. Their marketing stinks. As for the questions listed, they probably were asked. It just doesn't make for much of a story to write, "Were not ready to release that information", over and over.
QFT.
Bzzt. Game never coming out. Prove me wrong.
Bzzt. Game never coming out. Prove me wrong.
Bzzt. Game never coming out. Prove me wrong.
Bzzt. Game never coming out. Prove me wrong.
Makes me want to oil him or get him a new battery or something.
CRT monitors are actually better for artists because they can be calibrated much easier. You have three guns to calibrate instead of a thousands of individual pixels. It's not that you can't calibrate an LCD, it's just more time consuming, takes more expensive equipment, and can go out of calibration much easier.
Hey, I was so pleased, when I saw the article on Hero's Journey today. Things do seem to be moving!
The way Adele describes the character creation and the grafics in the game sounds fantastic. I am one of these "shallow" gamers, who really like their eye candy!
I also like the way they don't seem to forget about solo-play.
And as a final observation, I also don't believe, that a company would invite a journalist into their office, just to pretend their developing a game...
Warhammer is set for release the first quarter of 2008. Heroes Journey claims on their website they are releasing in 2007. The difference is, Warhammer isn't lieing.
Oh my lord, Amathe. Please get a grip on yourself. You're making yourself and us sick with your constant complaining. You've made your point over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over... ad nausiem.
Stop!
Simutronics has never given a firm date. They originally said 2005, then changed it to 2006, then changed it to 2007. Each time they explained that their date was only a guideline and that it would be released when it was ready. Blizzard did much of the same thing for World of Warcraft. This is also not out of character with Simutronics with their existing games, giving a very broad time for completion and sliding that date if the project wasn't ready.
I highly suggest you go 'play a game' Amathe and quit obsessing over Hero's Journey. I'm suprised you don't have an ulcer with that frustration you obviously show in your life over a game. You seriously need to kill some pixels.
Just my humble opinion.
I suggest you direct your comments to the game, or to my opinion about the game, rather than to me. You disagree with me? Fine. Say so, and say why. The personal attacks don't support your opinion and if you haven't noticed, don't deter me from commenting in the slightest.
But thanks for clarifying for those who do not know the years of release date pushbacks, and the fact that they currently have no date (other than a fictitious one) and refuse to even select a target date.
Seriously if you think his post was a personal attack, you need to grow some thicker skin. This just leads me to think you're prone to over the top responses and I really think you might be doing the same over release dates. The company is well known for put backs until they get things right. Frankly I wish more companies had the same attitude. I'll play it when it's out, whenever that is.
But your opinion has been stated so many times, it's nutz. We get it. You don't think this game will ever see the light of day. It's time to move on.
It might be a bit to much to call it vapourware, but simu do have them self to blame for such rumours, when they suddenly became silent after the pretty good marketing campaign with screens and/or dev.logs once a week. And after the "radio silence" we only heard echo's on each interview (its not only Amathe repeating himself
..but, as Simu sais "Don't be surprised by anything, and expect the unexpected." ...and that includes the cancellation of the game I guess. However, it was fun to get an insight of their (indi?)office and I really, really hope to play this game.. I does sound fun!
..and Steph, I think you look like a very nice person, and not tired! Keep up the good work and make sure you hand over a great game experience to us, when HJ is finished! ;)
Based on you constant replies to responses to your original topic, it is obvious you are using this news post to incense the HJ community of this website. Your questions and points are not without justification, and even if you did not initially offer too negative of a post, your responses have quickly escalated you to a "troll" status.
We all know it is very unlikely HJ is coming out in 2007. With a lack of beta (to the best of my knowledge) and the test/revision cycles necessary to offer a production-quality release. However, you do not so much ask for new/updated information - you demand it! It is in the best interests of Development Studios to offer updates and information, to keep the community looking for more. However, if they do not do so, for whatever reason, it does not suddenly mean the game is "vaporware."
For now, HJ is on track. This may change down the road, but in the meantime, I'll eagerly await the release - and any new information that is released.
Looks like a nice game. I would so love a game where everyone did not look alike at the same level. Unfortunately another rigid class system. Wish some of these devs would break out of the EQ mold and go for a skill instead of class system.
I have been doing computer project management longer than any of you and the continued lack of any plan dates is discouraging. The problem is usually lack of reasonable goals for the feature set. That has killed more MMO's then you can shake a stick at. Then again they may have actually found some patient people to fund it. Having to release a game before it is ready can be a real disaster. They are dealing with a very fickle marketplace.
At least they are letting journalists see what they have, not like that other famous vaporware "Darkfall".
If they release it, I will most definitely try it, but I will not get my hopes up.
Just one suggestion for the devs, it is better to get something out with a feature set that works well than putting everything you promised into the build, A limited feature set at release can actually be tested by QA, most games I see today make the QA job impossible. Remember the KISS principle gets projects done once the major points have been identified and included, it is the fluff that is hard to identify and kills more projects than one can imagine.
Let me explain myself better in terms of my intent. I have played a lot of video games. I don't make a habit of praising or being critical of 99% of them. For example, I beta tested Auto Assault and thought it was crap. Never posted anywhere about it. I beta tested Rose Online (why, I dunno) and thought it was crap. Never posted about it. I have played others I really liked, such as City of Heroes. Never posted about it. I could list dozens of others, pro and con, about which I have said nothing, good or bad.
But there is one thing that raises my ire. It will cause me to post, early and often. That is when a game is held out as being something wonderful, and I bite and get interested in it, only to discover that material things being said about the game are not true. When a company does that, I do speak out. I spoke about about Vanguard and was branded a troll. Now look at the mess that game is in. There are so many people trashing it that I can hardly get a word in edgewise. More than half of everyone who purchased it has quit. More than half the employees were fired. People have come around to where I was 9 months ago. I'm not a troll there anymore - I am the majority view.
So it will be here. Right now people are angered by my opinions because I am telling them something they do not want to believe, just as with Vanguard. It's cognative dissonance. But not one of those people can justify HJ pushing back year after year after year after year, with no new date in sight.
If Simu is going to give interviews to promote its game, it ought to be willing and want to share with its fans what reasonably can be expected in terms of the release of that game. This is not a Star Trek Online situation where the game is so nascent they can't be expected to know. This has been in production for so long its absurd now that they don't know. When they hide from that, it should tell you something.
If anyone has actually noticed, that FAQ stating that HJ will be released in 07 was last updated in May of 2006. So I think it's obvious that the game isn't going to be released this year. Is that a problem? Not at all. Whenever the game is released is fine by me. It's better that they take their time and get it right rather than rush a game and have it be horrible at launch. Remember that WoW took 5 years to develop and it's not even that good of a game. So just think how much work is required to make a game with the depth and detail of HJ?
And I wouldn't worry about how many races are actually playable at launch. As has already been stated, this game will be in constant development, even after launch, so whatever isn't available at launch will be added later on. I think that some people are getting the impression that because something that was said to be in the game at launch and has since been scratched will never be in the game. Just because something isn't going to be able to make launch doesn't mean that they'll just give up on it. Whatever is included in the launch will still be better than at least 90% of the MMO's out there and their game engine will only allow the game to improve over time. That's what we're overlooking here. How their engine will seperate HJ from current games. You won't have to buy an expansion pack to get the new features so I don't think that we'll have to wait a year or two after launch to see the things that didn't make the launch.
This game will come out and it needs to come out. Right now the MMO industry is plodding through mud. There are so many games out there that follow the same old boring mold. This game will change how MMO's are made and it's only fitting that the company responsible for the MMO industry will be the one to take it to a brand new level.
You need to seek out Gyren. He has all the answers you seek and more. In fact, he may very well know everything there is to know about anything.
Bottom line? Gyren knows.
Cemm
Amathe is making some valid points. The game has been in development for a long time, the publishing date has been postponed several times and in the last year there was very little new information forthcoming. All this could point to vapourware.
But for me the situation reads a little bit differently. I do think, that they put the game on to the backburner a bit to work on their new engine. However, I think, that they now have gone back to HJ to finally push it out. Otherwise they would have just let it die a quiet death right now. Why rekindle interest in a game, that does not exist? What would be the business sense in that? It would only damage their reputation.
I do think, they have to now move speedily towards launch, otherwise they are in danger of having a dated game on their hands. They also have to give the community more solid information, I agree with that. But at the moment, I am totally willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. The screenshots, the little bits of video, the information they've given us on game-play, all sounds really interesting and fun, so I hope they can deliver.
Also, if an argument is constantly repeated, again and again, however valid it is, it starts to grate...
The fact is, nobody knows. Not I, not Amathe, nobody but the bosses of Simutronics. All else is speculation.
The company has a history of this sort of thing, it's not good but it really doesn't bother me.
For the most part they are self funded from the licensing of the HJ engine to Bioware for their MMORPG. In fact the MAIN reason we probably don't hear much about HJ is because they wanted to get the HJ engine down and out there, now they can get on with the game.
Not true! People are annoyed that you keep saying it over and over and over and over again. You arn't saying anything new. We get it. We understand your opinion. Their is no need for you to post it over and over and over. Your not labeled a troll because of what you believe, it's the redundancy. It's the tired "vaporware" whine, every time a new story or bit of information is posted.
Reading comprehension. Why is it so hard for you to get it through your head that they have not committed to a release date? The quote below is very clear. The game will be released when it is deemed ready, by the company.
Thank you for asking! (Though I am puzzled why, if you find me repetitious, you keep reposting my observations and asking me questions.)
When a game is brand new, it is common for it not to have a release date. Who knows how long it will take? Three years? Six? When all you have is some concept art you can't really expect that kind of specificity. And if you ask, you will be told it will be released when it is ready.
But the longer a game is in production, the more the presence or absence of a release date becomes an indicator or whether it is really going to market. The mmorpg.com list is filled with major games that went into production after HJ, and they have release dates. That's because they are real.
If you had asked Simu in 2005 when the release would be, and they had said when it is ready, that would have been fine. Mid 2007 and no answer? Combined with the paucity of new info and demonstrable progress? That's a big neon red flag.
I'm not surprised. Perhaps your need for repetition is because you don't get it the first few times around.
I asked you a questions that would hopefully elicit a NEW response from you. I see however, you just took the question to restate the same old response.
I don't care what you THINK simu owes you. I don't care what you THINK simu should do. What I want to know is, why can't you get it through your head, that they are not going to give you the answer until they are ready?
This is just the way Simu does things. I hate it and I think you hate it as well, but it does not prove your claim.
Time will prove you right or wrong. Your account of the situation is on record and noted. There is no need for you to repost it after every new post or bit of news.
Jonny
The article spoke to release at the end (albeit with no date). So my post was relevant. You don't like that? I don't care.
For the people who think it's Vaporware.. Maybe you're right. Judging by past mmorpg standards, yes, it might be right. However, this company is a bit different from the current companies out there so it is hard telling. If you ask anyone who is on the GM team, though, I'm sure they will tell you that it is NOT vaporware. Maybe it can be said to be wishful thinking, I do not know. The company is still taking on volunteer GMs (although with a strict hand) and that's probably all there is to tell from besides the many movies. One was made somewhat recently even, but it is admittedly blurry so it's hard to tell anything. www.heroshall.com/gdc20071.php
The rest of the site isn't bad for information either.
For the people who do not think it is vaporware.. It seems Amathe at least doesn't mind being ignored. State the reasons for your beliefs and move on from that one. Time will tell who is right and only the ones who feel under-confident that others have a reason to believe them repeat themselves. It reminds me of the song "I Just Can't do it Alone" from Chicago. It's also called Act of Desperation for a reason.
First off, I would like to say that this game will be good, if it ever releases. As much as I would like to see this game on the market, I understand that bad things happens, oh well.
And Amathe, I do agree that you have a valid argument, but I also think that you should be open to the possibility that it's not vaporware. And maybe you are, I don't know what you truly think, only what you post.
I know Simutronics has been around a long time, and I think they know they have a large enough fanbase that will wait patiently and loyally until the game is ready (if ever). I also think that Simutronics knows what sad shape the MMOG market is in right now, with games like Vanguard going to market in a state not even worthy of being called Beta, and that Simutronics wants to make sure that their game is released when it is ready.
And even if this game does turn out to be vaporware, it's not necessarily a bad thing. I think other developers will see the excitement generated by this game, and start to try incorporating the elements of this game into their own games.
So whether or not this game comes out, I still think it will change MMOGs. Everyone just needs to be open to the fact that it may or may not come out. My opinion is that it will come out, based on this article and the release of class info 3 at a time.
Ahhhh, the silence has been broken. Whew...
As several have said, they're waiting for this game and so am I. Additionally, there is that "Air of Caution" in the MMO arena. Pay X-Amount, see it crap out and spend more. Yeah, we love our MMOs but it's like the Holy Grail. Such is the Industry.
Are MMOs dead? No. Are *GOOD* MMO's coming out? Sure, although it depends on who you talk to and which game they're talking about. The question is which one to (both) play-test and lay down silvers.
With HJ, I honestly think that laying down the coin of the realm is in my (hopefully near) future.
Great article and my hope is renewed in Simu!
If this game gets even have the roleplayers it had in DR and GS then this game will hands down be the best if not for the rping aspect alone. Simu has the best GM's as well. There is just nothing quite like playing GS and DR.
Peoples idea of Rping in the current MMO's is laughable. They think if you say "Aye" or "Tis" there roleplaying.
If this company proved one things its that a game doesn't have to have graphics to be good.
Thumbs up Simu
I truly look forward to this one.
Raven
I just want to say thanks for the article, it was a good read. It is good to know that Simutronics is focused on creating a game and an engine that really does push the MMOG genre forward.