I hope Atari loses and suffers hard!

Atari is just pissing their pants.

They are gonna get what they deserve.

If you screw a company over. Expect to be screwed back.

It would be interesting to hear Atari's council stage a defense 'cs they need to dig deep for this one.  To think Turbine is requesting a jury trial, it's going to be juicy!

Turbine should be counter sued for the travesty they subjected us to with DD0. It's the worst thing they could have done for a D&D MMO.

Turbine destroyed Asheron Call's & D&D's licenses, turned LOTR into a theme park, what next..

They both destroyed DDO and the project of making a good true to the core roles we all love D&D MMO..

I just hope the next Dungeons and Dragons Online gets better luck.. wihtout Turbine AND Atari.

Atari fails just as much

I'm not a big fan of Atari (Or Infogrames), but Turbine basically takes really great IP and turns them into bad games.

D&D they tried to turn into a twitch-fest action game, then when it failed, they blamed Atari for all the problems. Maybe they should have tried a more faithful translation of D&D? D&D players might have wanted to play D&D online, not an action RPG.

LOTRO, they did a good job on landscape graphics. But the gameplay suffers from the worst grinding I've ever seen (and I play Korean games).  Slow leveling for one (300 hours and I'm 44th level).  And and top of that, you need to grind for deeds to boost your traits. Kill hundreds of a given sort of monster. Repeat over and over until your trait finally reached 10.

And in Moria, they added several more types of grinding.  Grinding to get your weapon better. Grinding to get your rep up. Raid grinding just to get gear to do more raids.

Originally posted by MikeB 

Atari fires back at Turbine, calling the lawsuit "frivolous"

Ok, is this news? What is Atari going to say "Gee! They got a helluva case against us!"

Either way, I'm not taking sides legally (cause I aint a lawyer) but in the end I hope a real D&D mmo can be made.

If Turbine wins, DDO continues on a few more years.  If Atari wins, they make a D&D game based on 4.0.

I play DDO and I thoroughly enjoy it.  I've been playing it since launch, and it is one of the most entertaining MMOs I have ever played.  Atari's D&D would be a World of Warcraft clone and a failure, without a doubt.

Turbine has a great case against Atari, and Atari has jack shit.

Rot in whatever hell you desire, Atari.

and yet deep down they know they are screwed.  Still...let the cat fight begin!!!!

When one multinational company decides to sue another multinational company the lawyers' and court fees can literally end up in the millions of dollars for those involved. For Turbine to sue Atari on this massive scale means that there are substantial stakes at risk. These court  proceedings should not be taken with a grain of salt.

When a company decides to pursue such substantial legal procedures this is undoubtedly based on in house meetings between the lawyers and top executives of the Plaintiff making the accusations. In this particular case, Turbine being the Plaintiff. These meetings/discussions about an impending court process would have take place for several months ahead of the actual court filings. We are talking about multi national businesses here, not some mom and pop shop 2 blocks away from where you live.

Both companies involved (Turbine and Atari) do business on a global scale. As with most multinational businesses nowadays their main objective is to offer a service that creates MAXIMUM revenue in return. Perhaps Turbine legitamely believes that Atari's actions (or lack of action) was illegal. Perhaps they simply see a LEGAL avenue to try and produce more profit for their company. Remember, LEGAL does not always mean RIGHT or FAIR.

One thing I am certain of; the filing of the lawsuit against Atari AND the launch of the new  'Free2Play' business model for DDO is NOT coincidental. Turbines lawyers would  undoubtedly have been talking to the 'powers that be' for quite some time as to evaluate their position. Part of these internal proceedings would have been to discuss the most appropriate time to file this lawsuit. Everything that is being done right now is being done DELIBERATELY. The question is, 'WHY'?

Does Turbine legitimitely feel that Atari negated its end of their contractual agreement, and is therefore suing for money they believe is rightfully owed to them so they can market DDO? Or, does Turbine believe they simply have a LEGAL shot at a lawsuit? Like I have already stated these types of legal proceedings are talked about for months before being implemented. So, since they are INTENTIONALLY launching DDO F2P at the same time as they are filing a  lawsuit what is their justification? Are they simply trying to create publicity for the game to create more interest in the game, and therefore more subscribers and revenue?

As they say in Holleywood, negative publicity is better than no publicity at all. 

Neither one of these companies is 'sweet and innocent' in my opinion. Only time will tell who is 'legally' in the right.

Originally posted by Thrawl

When one multinational company decides to sue another multinational company the lawyers' and court fees can literally end up in the millions of dollars for those involved. For Turbine to sue Atari on this massive scale means that there are substantial stakes at risk. These court  proceedings should not be taken with a grain of salt.

When a company decides to pursue such substantial legal procedures this is undoubtedly based on in house meetings between the lawyers and top executives of the Plaintiff making the accusations. In this particular case, Turbine being the Plaintiff. These meetings/discussions about an impending court process would have take place for several months ahead of the actual court filings. We are talking about multi national businesses here, not some mom and pop shop 2 blocks away from where you live.

Both companies involved (Turbine and Atari) do business on a global scale. As with most multinational businesses nowadays their main objective is to offer a service that creates MAXIMUM revenue in return. Perhaps Turbine legitamely believes that Atari's actions (or lack of action) was illegal. Perhaps they simply see a LEGAL avenue to try and produce more profit for their company. Remember, LEGAL does not always mean RIGHT or FAIR.

One thing I am certain of; the filing of the lawsuit against Atari AND the launch of the new  'Free2Play' business model for DDO is NOT coincidental. Turbines lawyers would  undoubtedly have been talking to the 'powers that be' for quite some time as to evaluate their position. Part of these internal proceedings would have been to discuss the most appropriate time to file this lawsuit. Everything that is being done right now is being done DELIBERATELY. The question is, 'WHY'?

Does Turbine legitimitely feel that Atari negated its end of their contractual agreement, and is therefore suing for money they believe is rightfully owed to them so they can market DDO? Or, does Turbine believe they simply have a LEGAL shot at a lawsuit? Like I have already stated these types of legal proceedings are talked about for months before being implemented. So, since they are INTENTIONALLY launching DDO F2P at the same time as they are filing a  lawsuit what is their justification? Are they simply trying to create publicity for the game to create more interest in the game, and therefore more subscribers and revenue?

As they say in Holleywood, negative publicity is better than no publicity at all. 

Neither one of these companies is 'sweet and innocent' in my opinion. Only time will tell who is 'legally' in the right.

If you read the filing you will se that the lawsuit is indeed about the Free to play version and that the old contract issues are just extra fluff to show that Atari have a long histury of screwing with Turbine. Atari wanted more money from Turinbe or trying to breake their contract, thats why the are being sued.
 

"On information and belief, even as Atari was accepting hundreds of thousands of
dollars of payments from Turbine in connection with the May 13 Agreements, Atari unveiled a
course of action-started months earlier in or about November 2008-to manufacture a trumped
up and false basis to threaten to terminate the contractual relationship between Atari and
Turbine. On information and belief, Atari knew, even as it extended the parties’ relationship
under Amendment Number Five (This is making the game Free to play) and took hundreds of thousands of dollars in payments from
Turbine, that it planned to immediately threaten to terminate the Agreement in an effort to extort
more money from Turbine or, alternately, to free itself from its obligations under the contracts in
order to clear the way for the launch of its own competing MMO service based on the D&D’ and
Advanced D&D@ intellectual properties"

The most fun pat of this is Atari saying:

"This action can ultimately do a great disservice to D&D fans and to the MMO community at large."

As if Atari have benn doing anything good for the D&D franchise or MMO gaming at all. I think Turibne is doing us a favor if they kill this scaming company.

Originally posted by Papadam

If you read the filing you will se that the lawsuit is indeed about the Free to play version and that the old contract issues are just extra fluff to show that Atari have a long histury of screwing with Turbine. Atari wanted more money from Turinbe or trying to breake their contract, thats why the are being sued.
 

"On information and belief, even as Atari was accepting hundreds of thousands of
dollars of payments from Turbine in connection with the May 13 Agreements, Atari unveiled a
course of action-started months earlier in or about November 2008-to manufacture a trumped
up and false basis to threaten to terminate the contractual relationship between Atari and
Turbine. On information and belief, Atari knew, even as it extended the parties’ relationship
under Amendment Number Five (This is making the game Free to play) and took hundreds of thousands of dollars in payments from
Turbine, that it planned to immediately threaten to terminate the Agreement in an effort to extort
more money from Turbine or, alternately, to free itself from its obligations under the contracts in
order to clear the way for the launch of its own competing MMO service based on the D&D’ and
Advanced D&D@ intellectual properties"

The most fun pat of this is Atari saying:

"This action can ultimately do a great disservice to D&D fans and to the MMO community at large."

As if Atari have benn doing anything good for the D&D franchise or MMO gaming at all. I think Turibne is doing us a favor if they kill this scaming company.

Completely agreed here. Atari screwed from the start - if there was ANY advertisement, which in fact only Atari could do (and they insisted on it!), this game might be huge now.

ATARI sent their auditors to Turbine's offices about a month before the launch of new DDO, without any warning, seeking some "unpaid bills" or "hidden information". Turbine opened their archives, and ATARI's staff didn't find a thing that's not right. Yet, they tried over and over...

This was the last indication for Turbine, that's something's going on. That ATARI's trying to break their agreements. On May 13th they've signed a license for a D&D MMO valid until 2016 (ATARI's rights for D&D last until 2017...). ATARI acted as happy to see D&D F2P Project, and they've promised their marketing and PR support. But they haven't done a thing yet - and DDO launches on the 9th of September. Champions Online got some well-recorded videos and banners, DDO got nada. All what is done is thanks to Turbine - booth on GenCon, and now DDO booth at PAX.

ATARI insisted on having exlusive rights to promote DDO in Europe, even while Turbine was and still is trying to buy them out. ATARI insists on having them, though they're in fact not promoting DDO in Europe in any way since more than 3 years. Isn't this case getting obvious?

Now we know why BioWare isn't going to do D&D games anymore - ATARI (=Ubisoft) is holding the license.

I dont believe this game would have been any better off either way its a bad game , loved by a few and i dont begrudge them that, but seriously flawed to become a competitor in the market none the less.

Frivalous.  Funny that is exactly the term Microsoft has used many times over.  It seems to be a good word when you know you got caught with your hands in the till.

Nice to see that Atari has idiots in charge of their public relations.

Someone wants popcorn? ;)

Originally posted by Yunbei

Someone wants popcorn? ;)

Better make a lot, it's gonna be a long show :-)

Atari is already suffering financially, this could very well crush them, leaving CO, STO and the Neverwinter Nights project that Cryptic is working on dead in the water. Has CO done well enough to keep Atari afloat long enough to weather the storm? Is Turbine's case strong enough to win, or is it really a trumped up suit by Turbine to hit Atari when it's weak and collapse them before they have a chance to release NwNO?

Either way it's interesting, and bad for Atari. I think Cryptic hitched their cart to the wrong horse.

Originally posted by xaldraxius

Atari is already suffering financially, this could very well crush them, leaving CO, STO and the Neverwinter Nights project that Cryptic is working on dead in the water. Has CO done well enough to keep Atari afloat long enough to weather the storm? Is Turbine's case strong enough to win, or is it really a trumped up suit by Turbine to hit Atari when it's weak and collapse them before they have a chance to release NwNO?

Either way it's interesting, and bad for Atari. I think Cryptic hitched their cart to the wrong horse.

Has the NWN project by cryptic been confirmed?

If so, and it's an MMO as speculated, maybe Turbine is right, maybe Atari left the DDO Unlimited project high and dry because they're banking on NwN MMO.

---

Originally posted by Emeraq

---

Originally posted by xaldraxius

Atari is already suffering financially, this could very well crush them, leaving CO, STO and the Neverwinter Nights project that Cryptic is working on dead in the water. Has CO done well enough to keep Atari afloat long enough to weather the storm? Is Turbine's case strong enough to win, or is it really a trumped up suit by Turbine to hit Atari when it's weak and collapse them before they have a chance to release NwNO?
Either way it's interesting, and bad for Atari. I think Cryptic hitched their cart to the wrong horse.

---

 
Has the NWN project by cryptic been confirmed?
If so, and it's an MMO as speculated, maybe Turbine is right, maybe Atari left the DDO Unlimited project high and dry because they're banking on NwN MMO.

---

It hasn't been confirmed as far as I know, but I'd bet dollars to doughnuts that it's true. Neither Atari nor Cryptic has confirmed nor denied the rumor, and we already knew that Cryptic was working on a mysterious third MMO that they weren't willing to talk about before the rumor started. It's pretty hard to keep anything under wraps in this day and age, just look at SW:TOR, everyone knew what Bioware was doing long before the official announcement.

---

Originally posted by trancejeremy
I'm not a big fan of Atari (Or Infogrames), but Turbine basically takes really great IP and turns them into bad games.
D&D they tried to turn into a twitch-fest action game, then when it failed, they blamed Atari for all the problems. Maybe they should have tried a more faithful translation of D&D? D&D players might have wanted to play D&D online, not an action RPG.
LOTRO, they did a good job on landscape graphics. But the gameplay suffers from the worst grinding I've ever seen (and I play Korean games).  Slow leveling for one (300 hours and I'm 44th level).  And and top of that, you need to grind for deeds to boost your traits. Kill hundreds of a given sort of monster. Repeat over and over until your trait finally reached 10.
And in Moria, they added several more types of grinding.  Grinding to get your weapon better. Grinding to get your rep up. Raid grinding just to get gear to do more raids.

---

I really like this and I want people to read it a second time.

hope Atari burns

Originally posted by Dubhlaith

 

---

Originally posted by trancejeremy
I'm not a big fan of Atari (Or Infogrames), but Turbine basically takes really great IP and turns them into bad games.
D&D they tried to turn into a twitch-fest action game, then when it failed, they blamed Atari for all the problems. Maybe they should have tried a more faithful translation of D&D? D&D players might have wanted to play D&D online, not an action RPG.
LOTRO, they did a good job on landscape graphics. But the gameplay suffers from the worst grinding I've ever seen (and I play Korean games).  Slow leveling for one (300 hours and I'm 44th level).  And and top of that, you need to grind for deeds to boost your traits. Kill hundreds of a given sort of monster. Repeat over and over until your trait finally reached 10.
And in Moria, they added several more types of grinding.  Grinding to get your weapon better. Grinding to get your rep up. Raid grinding just to get gear to do more raids.

---

 

I really like this and I want people to read it a second time.

I agree with where you are coming on this, but you gotta realize that is the ESSENCE  of the WoW phenomenon. LOTRO just copied it. There are also tens of thousands of people who like that. I dont and I play LOTRO off and on every other year , get bored move on, but a lot of people love that stuff

Originally posted by trancejeremy

I'm not a big fan of Atari (Or Infogrames), but Turbine basically takes really great IP and turns them into bad games.

D&D they tried to turn into a twitch-fest action game, then when it failed, they blamed Atari for all the problems. Maybe they should have tried a more faithful translation of D&D? D&D players might have wanted to play D&D online, not an action RPG.

LOTRO, they did a good job on landscape graphics. But the gameplay suffers from the worst grinding I've ever seen (and I play Korean games).  Slow leveling for one (300 hours and I'm 44th level).  And and top of that, you need to grind for deeds to boost your traits. Kill hundreds of a given sort of monster. Repeat over and over until your trait finally reached 10.

And in Moria, they added several more types of grinding.  Grinding to get your weapon better. Grinding to get your rep up. Raid grinding just to get gear to do more raids.

And yet, you continue to play. Amazing. :D

I've been seeing ads for DDO all over the place. So who does all those ads that I DO see?

---

Originally posted by Bleakmage
I've been seeing ads for DDO all over the place. So who does all those ads that I DO see?

---

Originally posted by Bleakmage

I've been seeing ads for DDO all over the place. So who does all those ads that I DO see?

I havent seen any adds for DDO yet (only for D&D 4th edition) but this was posted by Turbines Marketroid concerning adds:

"Those ads are from Turbine, not our friendly neighborhood publishers.

The campaign doesn't start in earnest until 9/9/9 but some sites are testing the units now, and that's what folks saw.

Expect to see many more ads in the coming days as the campaign rolls out."

Awesome :D

Originally posted by Emeraq

Has the NWN project by cryptic been confirmed?

If so, and it's an MMO as speculated, maybe Turbine is right, maybe Atari left the DDO Unlimited project high and dry because they're banking on NwN MMO.

DDO is not the huge success Turbine hoped for. To me it just seems like they are blaming Atari instead of making the game better and more appealing to D&D fans.

NWNO is not confirmed but very likely. I however still think Atari gave DDO what it deserves.

I am not saying that DDO and LOTRO are bad games, they have their points but it is kinda embarasing that the most popular fantasy IPs ever have so few players. Both those games should have 1 millions subs or more but Turbine messed up. The games just didn't attract fans of the original IPs and Turbine should have spent more work to get the fans into the games.

Same thing as with WAR, Mythic just got MMO fans to play it, not Warhammer fans.

Originally posted by Dubhlaith

 

---

Originally posted by trancejeremy
I'm not a big fan of Atari (Or Infogrames), but Turbine basically takes really great IP and turns them into bad games.
D&D they tried to turn into a twitch-fest action game, then when it failed, they blamed Atari for all the problems. Maybe they should have tried a more faithful translation of D&D? D&D players might have wanted to play D&D online, not an action RPG.
LOTRO, they did a good job on landscape graphics. But the gameplay suffers from the worst grinding I've ever seen (and I play Korean games).  Slow leveling for one (300 hours and I'm 44th level).  And and top of that, you need to grind for deeds to boost your traits. Kill hundreds of a given sort of monster. Repeat over and over until your trait finally reached 10.
And in Moria, they added several more types of grinding.  Grinding to get your weapon better. Grinding to get your rep up. Raid grinding just to get gear to do more raids.

---

 

I really like this and I want people to read it a second time.

Why should any of us read nonsense a second time?  It is fine to not like DDO or Lotro, but the reasons given are ludicrous at best.  Maybe you should reread it. 

I hope atari gets it, and as to people saying LoTRo takes to long to lvl in I seriously think they have to suck as a gamer. I can solo from one to max level in at most a hundred hours and thats with me doing traits. Weapons level easy as pie, and you don't need traits to get to max level.

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Emeraq

Has the NWN project by cryptic been confirmed?

If so, and it's an MMO as speculated, maybe Turbine is right, maybe Atari left the DDO Unlimited project high and dry because they're banking on NwN MMO.

 

I am not saying that DDO and LOTRO are bad games, they have their points but it is kinda embarasing that the most popular fantasy IPs ever have so few players. Both those games should have 1 millions subs or more but Turbine messed up. The games just didn't attract fans of the original IPs and Turbine should have spent more work to get the fans into the games.

I actually enjoy LOTRO, and believe it should have subs than it does... But on  DDO, the setting is Eberron, what did they expect, if I remember right even the PnP community wasn't really that sold on Eberron.

Well stop pre-ordering games backed by crap companies or made by IP destroying developers. Vote with your dollars. Say... isn't Atari backing Champions Online? Hrrm...

Originally posted by Loke666

Originally posted by Emeraq

Has the NWN project by cryptic been confirmed?

If so, and it's an MMO as speculated, maybe Turbine is right, maybe Atari left the DDO Unlimited project high and dry because they're banking on NwN MMO.

 

DDO is not the huge success Turbine hoped for. To me it just seems like they are blaming Atari instead of making the game better and more appealing to D&D fans.

NWNO is not confirmed but very likely. I however still think Atari gave DDO what it deserves.

I am not saying that DDO and LOTRO are bad games, they have their points but it is kinda embarasing that the most popular fantasy IPs ever have so few players. Both those games should have 1 millions subs or more but Turbine messed up. The games just didn't attract fans of the original IPs and Turbine should have spent more work to get the fans into the games.

Same thing as with WAR, Mythic just got MMO fans to play it, not Warhammer fans.

You've just pointed out part of the success of WoW. It attracted MMO fans AND Warcraft RTS fans. :D

either way both atari and turbine are screwed by this.  All their dirty laudry is going to be brought up.

Originally posted by trancejeremy

I'm not a big fan of Atari (Or Infogrames), but Turbine basically takes really great IP and turns them into bad games.

D&D they tried to turn into a twitch-fest action game, then when it failed, they blamed Atari for all the problems. Maybe they should have tried a more faithful translation of D&D? D&D players might have wanted to play D&D online, not an action RPG.

LOTRO, they did a good job on landscape graphics. But the gameplay suffers from the worst grinding I've ever seen (and I play Korean games).  Slow leveling for one (300 hours and I'm 44th level).  And and top of that, you need to grind for deeds to boost your traits. Kill hundreds of a given sort of monster. Repeat over and over until your trait finally reached 10.

And in Moria, they added several more types of grinding.  Grinding to get your weapon better. Grinding to get your rep up. Raid grinding just to get gear to do more raids.

Using your logic *as far as LOTRO is concerned) every thing you do in a video game is a grind, with the exception of crafting(which I do alot of) what else are you going to do in a video game other than kill things? I've played a few Korean games and buddy if you think LOTRO has the worst grind you are either not really playing Korean grind fests or you just suck at LOTRO because the grind certainly is not worse than any mmo I've spent alot of time playing.  Let's see here how can they compete with a game like COH which gives exp debt everytime you die, and I'd stand to reason from my experience there that any game offering exp debt has a much greater grind than LOTRO which is the only game I can think of that literally offers you a way to keep your characters recieving double exp through the use of destiny points.

Now as for "kill hundreds of a given sort of monster" name me an mmo that does not have some slick way to make you do it, what game doesn't have raids or instances that require you to take massive amounts of time fighting through with a group for one person to get a great weapon at a time.  I take it your complaint is simply the method Turbine uses to do keep players playing different strokes for different folks.  Ultimately you almost sound like one of those types who wants everything and want it now I still don't have a single avatar with a trait full to 10 and that's with 2 level 60's a champ and guardian,55 runekeeper,50 loremaster and a gang of other toons over level 30 and I've only played for two years with about 6-8 months off.  You feel like you are being made to grind to get the traits up well don't worry about them they certainly don't make or break the game.  And again where does it say you have to raid, I have never once raided in a single mmo I've played because again I'm here to have fun not have epeening contests with other players, if you don't find it fun you may feel the way you do but I just have to point out your post seems to embelish a bit much.