Make this game truly D&D :

- Not instanced dungeons. This is named MMORPG , and it is just neverwinter nights
- perma death. In D&D players can die forever if not rezzed
- Not PVP : in D&D dungeon masters cant tell a player not to fight with his mate if they want to do it. I have seen lot of player vs player fights, and they love it, its a very important thing to be powerful and not just to kill a npc.

These changes wouldn't really make it D&D.

1 - This one arguably would be better. It isn't really an MMO, it is more like Xtreme Dungeonbashing at the moment. But NWN actually makes for a better MMO.
2. - D&D is one of the few game backgrounds where resurrection actually makes reasonable sense. Removing resurrection would be somewhat counter to the D&D feel and making it too hard would just frustrate and annoy people. For a casual game like they're trying to make, permadeath is a bad idea.
3. - PvP is extremely counter to the 'spirit' of D&D, particularly the way in DDO they're trying to make you play heroes. It is also one of the major things going for the game that it DOESN'T have PvP. Its nice to just play cooperatively with people and avoid all the BS, name calling and schlong comparison that goes with PvP.

1. No Instanced Dungeons:
Bad idea. Too unrealistic. I woud love to find others players inside the dungeons but this doesn't work in any MMORPG. See, eventually you will find every dungeons full of people and this will ruin the D&D feel: "your party alone againts the darks inside". Algo with the nature of the XP by adventure only you can't do that.

2. Permanent Death:
Really bad idea. How you tell to the Bard Lv. 10 player that his character is death without possibility to resurrect (because his party can't resurrect his character, just think any reason) and have to create a new one? Impossible. Not for a MMORPG game. And any other game. I know that this is part of D&D, but you can't do this in a videogame. If I pay two months of game just to die at level 10 I will drop my account. If I have to reroll a character at Lv. 3 because I can't resurrect and no one in the party could pay for a resurrection I will drop my account too. No way I will start another character because I die. In the D&D game is a risk, but I don't pay to play it

3. No PVP:
As I stated on another thread you will have PVP sometime. The PVP system is there. But you really want PVP? I don't like it.
I can handle it if there are arenas and I can play there if I want, but if they make something like WoW when you have to do PVP combats in order to get better equipment, I don't know, I will hate it...

1. Too unrealistic??? just the opposite. Realism is that players can go whereever they want, and be able to meet lots in the same area. Maybe its what you dont like but its not unrealistic at all. Most games are unrealistic cause there is not a real big world like real D&D world where the chance to meet many places in the same area are not much. Also dungeons must not exist always, if you kill an unique mosnter there its not supposed to appear the next day.

2. I have never said there was not possibility to resurrect a player. I SAID CLEARLY permadeath IF not rezzed, but welll you read what you want to read. I just talk about permanent death, IF you are not resurrected of course. Also in real D&D there is not a regional chat or a chat to tell thing to a character miles away ( not using a spell, just something any char can do in any mmorpg ). So, if you die and noone of your mates can rezz you you will probably die, exactly the same as in D&D, the ones that dont like this probably play D&D with a Dungeon Master that never kills them or cheats to keep them alive ( like telling tips to players so that they make the right decissions )

3. We dont talk about who likes or not PVP, just that D&D is PVP, that is a fact. You can do it or not, but you CAN PvP. Maybe you with your friends dont do it but lot of ppl do it, and rules allow you to do so. I remind you there is an alligment in D&D called Chaotic Evil.

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Originally posted by gurthgor

Make this game truly D&D :

- Not instanced dungeons. This is named MMORPG , and it is just neverwinter nights
- perma death. In D&D players can die forever if not rezzed
- Not PVP : in D&D dungeon masters cant tell a player not to fight with his mate if they want to do it. I have seen lot of player vs player fights, and they love it, its a very important thing to be powerful and not just to kill a npc.

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1. I disagree. If players could exist in the same dungeons as other players, they'll help other players pass the dungeons by camp in them or steal-kill monsters, etc. I think what needs to be added is middle-areas with quests like GW, but have other players co-exist in those area too. To prevent farming or powergaming, allow players on quests in those areas to gain XP from the quest taker only and confine the loot to dungeon monster only. Think of the middle area as a training area for players who have to meet the level requirements for a dungeon.

2. No, new players and causal would quit DnD. Why is it that there is always one jack@$$ like yourself who has to ask for Permanent death in nearly every MMO. You guys ask for PD with no reasonable rational explanation. Have you ever consider the new players and causal playing this game would be pissed off if they got to level 9 and die only to not be able to rez their character? The hours they spent playing this game would be a waste of time if they rez and correct their mistakes. The only reason you want permanent death is to separate the elite/veterans from the noobs. If you want to play a DnD game with permanent death, go play Baldur's Gate. Can't you see this company trying to make money?

3. PvP can be roleplayed. If you're a paladin and you run into a rogue killing someone, you'll want to make him pay for his crime. The whole of point of DnD is being able to roleplay in any and every which way you can, not just one.

1. In real D&D there are not instanced dungeons, you can meet other npc adventurers.

2. I dont care who quits, i am just saying to noobs like you that real D&D uses permadeath if you are not rezzed. If you dont like this just dont play D&D or play a crappy D&D where Dungeon Master just let you do whatever you want without possibility of dying, which is quite boring. I have played with some Dungeon Masters that are similar to this game, they help you all the time so that you dont die, they make you go exactly to the dungeons where there is a very low chance to die...they give you powerful items, they make feel ubber... its pathetic and boring. I dont think devs get much money with this game. It would be better they made other game, but making D&D ppl expects other thing, this is not D&D at all. I am sure a game well made with permadeath will get much more money than this, just cause there are tons of EQ clones, all about the same that is basically crappy quests and grinding, just time killers with chat. You can even enjoy a game like D&D online but its not D&D. If devs think they are going to get more money with that crap its up to them but I AM JUST TALKING ABOUT HOW IS REAL D&D

3. Pvp can be roleplayed of course, but there is not pvp in this game. How can a paladin make that in this game if there is not even pvp ??

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Originally posted by gurthgor

1. In real D&D there are not instanced dungeons, you can meet other npc adventurers.

2. I dont care who quits, i am just saying to noobs like you that real D&D uses permadeath if you are not rezzed. If you dont like this just dont play D&D or play a crappy D&D where Dungeon Master just let you do whatever you want without possibility of dying, which is quite boring. I have played with some Dungeon Masters that are similar to this game, they help you all the time so that you dont die, they make you go exactly to the dungeons where there is a very low chance to die...they give you powerful items, they make feel ubber... its pathetic and boring. I dont think devs get much money with this game. It would be better they made other game, but making D&D ppl expects other thing, this is not D&D at all. I am sure a game well made with permadeath will get much more money than this, just cause there are tons of EQ clones, all about the same that is basically crappy quests and grinding, just time killers with chat. You can even enjoy a game like D&D online but its not D&D. If devs think they are going to get more money with that crap its up to them but I AM JUST TALKING ABOUT HOW IS REAL D&D

3. Pvp can be roleplayed of course, but there is not pvp in this game. How can a paladin make that in this game if there is not even pvp ??

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A mmorg can be made much more similar to true D&D than this for sure, MUCH MORE. I dont ask for a truly D&D game cause it is not possible but there are ton of things that can be made in a game to be near that. I am not asking what i play, i am asking they keep what they can of D&D rules. There are lot of things they can do and they dont want cause the crappy reasons you gave me. Thats the loser way of thinking they have, and i am sure this game wont get many players. As i said there are tons of game with the same features, but this one is even worse cause implements instances. I have played EQ and there were tons of players in that game without any instance and with graphics much worse than D&D. At least EQ didnt try to copy a successful game like D&D, but if you do it then do it well, and dont do just what you want, do it near to what D&D is, i just say that, other thing is just a try to get money using the marketing of something that is successful like D&D but giving other thing.

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Originally posted by gurthgor

A mmorg can be made much more similar to true D&D than this for sure, MUCH MORE. I dont ask for a truly D&D game cause it is not possible but there are ton of things that can be made in a game to be near that. I am not asking what i play, i am asking they keep what they can of D&D rules. There are lot of things they can do and they dont want cause the crappy reasons you gave me. Thats the loser way of thinking they have, and i am sure this game wont get many players. As i said there are tons of game with the same features, but this one is even worse cause implements instances. I have played EQ and there were tons of players in that game without any instance and with graphics much worse than D&D. At least EQ didnt try to copy a successful game like D&D, but if you do it then do it well, and dont do just what you want, do it near to what D&D is, i just say that, other thing is just a try to get money using the marketing of something that is successful like D&D but giving other thing.

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You can believe whatever you want, but this is company and money is the main priority. Right now DnD Online lacks a lot of features, feats and other things from the original game so asking for the game to be a 100% faithful clone is unrealistic. DnD's mechanics and rules revolves around situational events while MMORPG are real time so you can't expect PnP rules to translate well into a MMO world.

Lastly, EQ did copy DnD; infact, we game has copy ideas from DnD. We wouldn't have RPGs if it weren't for DnD as DnD provide elementals that would inspire other RPGs and MMORPG to do better, but the problem is that DnD hasn't evolve and will never evolve making it difficult transcend with time.

I dont see how they expect to get money with this game. They just made the same that other tons of mmorpgs, but worse than many. Just check the rating, it just has 7.9 when there are tons of not good games with better rating, and they are older most of them. They thought just calling this D&D lot of ppl would join it. It happens with many games, like the ones of Lord of the Rings, which were made lots that wwere absolutely crap. They trust too much in marketing. When WoW or Guild wars were launched they were at top of the rating list pretty quick, this game atm is not going to get much money, maybe if they change most of things. Many mmorpgs are going to bankrupcy cause they just tried to copy EQ badly, they just try to make ppl more or less happy, but the game doesnt rock. Nowadays in mmorpg market you must aim the game to a kind of players and that there are not 234234 games about the same like now, all thinking the same you think and they are not getting a shit.

EQ didnt copy D&D, thats like saying that all movies copied Star Trek for instance. D&D just made a genre, that is all.

D&D doesnt have to evolve, its the Dungeon Master who has to evolve and make good games.

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Originally posted by gurthgor

I dont see how they expect to get money with this game. They just made the same that other tons of mmorpgs, but worse than many. Just check the rating, it just has 7.9 when there are tons of not good games with better rating, and they are older most of them. They thought just calling this D&D lot of ppl would join it. It happens with many games, like the ones of Lord of the Rings, which were made lots that wwere absolutely crap. They trust too much in marketing. When WoW or Guild wars were launched they were at top of the rating list pretty quick, this game atm is not going to get much money, maybe if they change most of things. Many mmorpgs are going to bankrupcy cause they just tried to copy EQ badly, they just try to make ppl more or less happy, but the game doesnt rock. Nowadays in mmorpg market you must aim the game to a kind of players and that there are not 234234 games about the same like now, all thinking the same you think and they are not getting a shit.

EQ didnt copy D&D, thats like saying that all movies copied Star Trek for instance. D&D just made a genre, that is all.

D&D doesnt have to evolve, its the Dungeon Master who has to evolve and make good games.

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1. The ideas you proposed again, where not good and no one agreed with you can stop asking for sh!tty rules that will only mess the game up further. With no explanation as to why we should have the rules, there is reason to have the rules.

2. Many MMORPGs are going bankrupt because they are have poor customer service, they aren't offering any new features and they offer worse then the last RPG.

3. Every RPG copies from the next RPG. GW copy from NWN and NWN copy from Diablo, but all the MMORPG owe their ideas and inspiration to DnD who came up with all these before them. And yes, Star Wars did take from Star Trek. It's a universal concept to take trends, shows, games, musicians and movies and apply those ideas into other trends, shows, games, musicians and movies that alright exist. (DBZ inspired the fights scene in the Matrix; Dante's Divine Comedy inspired the Homonculi in Fullmetal Alchemist, Lucas's admitted that the fight scene in all his Star Wars films were inspired by Akira Kurosawa, etc.)

4. There is no DM because it's a MMORPG and the game does need to evolve because DnD is turn-base game you moron. MMORPGs are not-turn based, they are real time. The feats and skills revolve around situational events while feats and skills in MMORPG are again real time. Real time and more strategic than situational, turn-based games so don't tell me that DnD doesn't need to evolve...it does so get over yourself, fanboy.