To date almost all games have been affraid to do this and I am sure Atari/Turbine wil follow suit, which I find very depressing.

One of the main features of PnP DnD was the fact that every action, every decision had a consequence, which could be dire. The MMORPG's today have removed this aspect of the game and because of that I believe a lot of the immersiveness of the game with it.

Now of course this is just my opinion, but I would love to see some type of permadeath involved in the game. This would bring about a true sense of accomplishment. A reason to rethink your planed actions, a stronger reason to relish your character.

The sense of surviving a tough scenario, or even the agony of death of a character you had for months if not years was what made the game worth playing to me. I remember people in my group going to the point of tears when a character died, and the ceremonies we would have to say our farewells. This is a feature I would love to see implemented in one way form or another.

Again, this is my personal opinion. Nothing more.

exactly Dregard. With the use of Ressurect, and Reincarmation spells I think this could be very doable. This then allows for a miriad of spells to be implemented that won't because ppl are affraid to lose their characters. i.e Power word Kill, Disinegrate etc.

Just the possibilities that would be revealed due to a reincarmation spell bring a whole new aspect to the game that few have contemplated.

And when I say Permadeath, of course there are many varieties of this type of feature. Mourning is adding an interesting feature called "Blood lines" which makes permadeath not so harsh by allowing you to create kin that can carry on the family name and level faster based on the skill level of the main character upon death.

So there are alternatives to adding a feature such as this, people just have to think out of the box to see it's many applications.

GalletGun, I understand your apprehension to a feature such as this. But if you ever played PnP D&D then you know that it isn't as bad as some people surmise.

Most people played a PnP gamming session once a week/once a month. What happened when your toon died? You created another, of course, depending on the compassion of the DM you may have been able to recreate at 1/2 the level of the traveling party and possibly keep a couple items.

Again, this is another way to implement permadeath so that the reality of your characters death is not so harsh.

Many ways to do it to appeal to the masses. I think the term "permadeath" automatically causes people to put on blinders and not look for the possibilitie.

I think that in the case of a MMORPG perma-death is a bad idea. Even in a D&D setting.

In that P&P game with the DM perma-death is just fine BECAUSE of that DM. With a DM there to watch your every move and provide content for JUST YOU you can be garuenteed that nothing is unbalanced......If it turns out that mabey that monster the DM threw at you was a little harder than he expected, he can start fudgeing rolls or mabey the monster dosen't really have 75 hitpoints he only has 40....

None of this happens in a MMORPG. If you are walking through a field and suddenly someone trains a Wraithlord ontop of you you are dead. You lag out and you are dead. These are of course a rehash of the reasons that permadeath dosen'ty exist in ANY MMORPG right now, and probaly won't ever.

People keep suggesting permadeath because they have romantic notions about great gameplay they had in p&p games, but fail to realize that those p&p games were perfectly balanced to their party.....And there was always big-daddy-GM there to fudge if someone got unlucky. None of that exists in a MMORPG.

Imo, it depends upon how the game it setup.... if its a pure levleing fest (please god no!) then permadeath wouldn't work, as hours and hours of leveling could be lost in a second, or via a bug. Then consider that if PvP is to be included (again, please god) then how would Permadeath work with that eh?

I R BABOON

Xira...I agree with you wholeheartedly. But I still have a problem with everyone getting to 20th level (Max level upon shipping) just because they have the afforded time to delve into the game. Regardless of the countless blunders, and deaths accompanying their character as it grows and gains levels.

To me this totally underminds what D&D is about.

But of course I also understand that this game needs to make money, and therefore it must conform itself to what the general public is looking for. And because of this I am horrified at what the final product may become.

I have played D&D for 23 years (since I was 11). I have dreampt of this game going online since the incepption of Ultima back in 97. But I do not want it done if it is going to make my accomplishments water down to the point that anyone with unlimited hours available to them to play, will eventualy be 20th level.

If that is the approach then they might as well take the cookie cutter MMPORPG and slap a D&D title on it.

I know I am goin overboard, I know I am being quite the zealot on this topic. But anything short of managing the amount of 20th level characters is blasphemy in my eyes! Alllowing everyone the opportunity to get to 20th lvl or whatever the level restriction is, is horribly wrong.

Again..this is my opinion..be nice on the flames..as I have a fragile psyche

i agree it would fun...but i think it should be implemented like WC3 did...a Hardcore based Server..that way only those interested would try it..and therefore you don't lose those that would be frustrated from the game completely.

/agree Vampirian

LoL I just posted my thoughts about it on the suggestion thread and its about the same as yours

"Really, I'm quite sane. Just ask my psychiatrist, Dr. Sockpuppet."

I agree it would be interesting to do. It could be a dichotomy of death. Death in which the body is partially or wholly intact and can be resurrected, or death in which the body is completely destroyed such as a disintigrate spell.

The first type of death could only be helped with a body drag to a temple or a cleric being on hand.

The second type of death, resurrection is not possible without the intervention of VERY high spells, such as Wish, or divine intervention. This could lead to your groupmates going on a quest to retreive... you!

The point being that death would have very serious consequences. No experience debt or automatic resurrection. Making getting to higher levels a MAJOR accomplishment.

Maybe, as was mentioned, a specific server could be done in this manner just like specific PvP servers are done. Just my 2 cents. :)

You know I wouldn't expect to see this in D&DOnline...They will be a smallish game, they can't really afford to throw up a server with a very unpopular feture like this.

I don't expect to see it in EQ2. They are money-driven and won't put something in that will cost them mass CS bills.

The game you might propose this to is...WoW. Blizzard has been known for being willing to try new ideas, and catering to the hardcore players....(See Hardcore mode in Diablo2)

Mabey..Just mabey...They will be willing to try a Hardcore server in WoW.

---

Originally posted by Xira

You know I wouldn't expect to see this in D&DOnline...They will be a smallish game, they can't really afford to throw up a server with a very unpopular feture like this.

---

Smallish? Atari? Turbine? WoTC? I would not classify any of the aforementioned as "smallish". But that is not what we are debating.

I want the game to be true to the rules. Perma-death is being true to the game. Except for the Divine intervention or in this case DM (If they have full time ones for content purposes), Wish's or maybe even channeled Resurects for Disinegrate deaths or Death Magic spells.

There are multiple ways they can do it and remain true to the game. Hell..put a 5 death limit before perma-death. Again, my biggest problem is seeing everyone and their 6 yr old kids all 20th level because death means nothing.

Put a monkey in front of a keyboard and every once in a while they wil type a word. Same thing applies here. Put a player in front of a keyboard and regardless of time invested, eventually everyone will be 20th lvl.

Whats the point? Where's the sense of accomplishment when everyone