For some reason the developers are missing the point...

The reason the DDO failed was that the whole game was a bunch of instances..

None wants that..the majority of ppl and especially the D&D fans were expecting a full exploring world with random encounters were you wouldn't excpecting, and not only intanced places...

Yes dungeon crawling is great we want that its just there was nothing more than it...

It's just so dissapointing that in order to save money the devs deside to make all places instanced in order to avoid making betetr servers and give more money for that ...save alot of work also and they prefer the easy way ... That sucks :/

What can we do? Turn the back now on to those products until the devs realise that they have to bust their ashes down , give more money in order to their product dont lack quality and then they can be sure that they ll take their mone back from the sales...A good product  will comprahate them..

Another thing ... You need the pvp aspect of this game in order to succed nowdays...SO NEXT TIME ,IN DDO 2 or in future products devs keep that in mind...

Concerning ddo they could do the same thing that aoc did...Guild vs guild castle creations from each guild e.t.c. and dont say some that d&d traditionally was coop team based game without pvp...this is pc games mmo games,w/o pvp aspect  mmo games will die,and perhaps some of the d&d fans did bad to the game spamming in forums we dont want pvp in this game...

Pve aspect is needed...but  pvp is needed also

yes ...combat system is good ..graphic respectable ..but need contents ,more quest , siege , this game is too easy to completed

---

Originally posted by tazarconan
Concerning ddo they could do the same thing that aoc did...Guild vs guild castle creations from each guild e.t.c. and dont say some that d&d traditionally was coop team based game without pvp...this is pc games mmo games,w/o pvp aspect  mmo games will die,and perhaps some of the d&d fans did bad to the game spamming in forums we dont want pvp in this game...
Pve aspect is needed...but  pvp is needed also

---

Yes because this sounds so much more like AD&D.

I am with you more so on the random encounter but inserting the same regurgitated crap down such as PvP this and PvP that. Not every MMO HAS to have PvP. D&D was never about working against your party, but adventuring and moving forward with it.

D&D fans did only what they could do to ensure the game stays as close to D&D itself. Despite what has been said, Turbine and Wizards of the West Coast were the final decision makers of the game.

PvP would not have saved the game, PvP would have made it something other than D&D.

Yeah I agree... but imo the biggest factor was that the access to those instances is terribly badly configured.

I've bought it and played it and the thing that turned me off to no end is how fiddly it is to get into a dungeon. Being on a quest is a prerequisite for entering a dungeon - which makes it horribly impractical for players to all synchronise their quest logs. In addition quest sharing is pretty much broken because of all the quest chains.

Imo, I'd be playing D&D online if they implemented several changes to the way their quest/dungeon access system works. If they were making a game for casual dungeon-bashers I really have no idea why they had to make finding quest givers (and dungeon entrances) such incredible pain in the ass.

Just make it so that when you click on a dungeon entrance you automatically get the quest for it.

In addition, please introduce pointers to various quest stages - q givers and instances. Dungeoneering is fun. Roaming the city, trying to find that small gray sewer entrance or trying to remember where was that quest-giver was one of the most annoying experiences I ever had in a MMO.

And the quest chain requirements are horrible. Quest = dungeon in this game. If your pals are on different stages of quest chains you cant really play together until all of you synchronize. Total pain. Screw those damn "stories". If I wanted a story I'd buy a book.

Its a pity though because the combat system is really neat and everything else works fine.  If the game worked as Battlenet thing with a simple menu giving you available dungeons at your level/quest progression I'd be happy as a bird. No point in burdening a game that is basically a casual dungeon bash with those elaborate storylines and crap. When I play it I want to have adventure and not waste time stumbling around in a city or trying to figure out which quests my RL friend needs to do before we can go meaningfully adventuring together.

/edit

As for instances... they don't really bother me, although I'm a huge fan of open persistent worlds. I bought DDO precisely because I thought that since it is instanced dungeon-crawl that it's going to be a casual "log in have fun" game. I couldn't be more wrong. I have no idea why they made this whole painful procedure you have to endure before getting into action. Immersion? Meh. If they wanted immersion then they shouldn't have gone the instanced way.

If DDO has failed, it is because Turbine tried to bring a PnP game to our screen and advertised it as an MMO. Most D&D sessions I have played and heard of involved maybe three or four players and a DM. Sometimes bigger groups, but hardly ever more than 12. So if you want to create a game that resembles the play style and experience from the pen and paper game, it is logical that it's not massive. Combine this with the expectations of the average MMO gamer and there we are: a game (with flaws) that doesn't feel like an MMO and doesn't cater for 'normal' MMO players (be it casual or 'hard core').

If you know what to expect from this game, by e.g. reading the official game site, then you will be less disappointed and will enjoy your stay more.

Oh, and the game is hard to come by in Europe. Turbine (Codemasters) has to make the game available for download in Europe as well.... :)

I'm amused that the OP declared DDO dead four days before I started playing.

The game is alive and well with a 'dedicated core' of players.. we need Turbine/Atari/Wizards to start promoting the game and the revised new player experience again to keep going, but there's been lots of content added.. you need to expect an instanced, group-based game. Once you accept that it's best thing going for complex, fast combat and plot-driven quests...

Originally posted by markoraos

In addition, please introduce pointers to various quest stages - q givers and instances. Dungeoneering is fun. Roaming the city, trying to find that small gray sewer entrance or trying to remember where was that quest-giver was one of the most annoying experiences I ever had in a MMO.

And the quest chain requirements are horrible. Quest = dungeon in this game. If your pals are on different stages of quest chains you cant really play together until all of you synchronize. Total pain. Screw those damn "stories". If I wanted a story I'd buy a book.

 

Well, I'm here to let you know that they fixed that "search for quests for hours" problem awhile ago -- many quests, once received by an NPC, are highlighted on your city map! HUZZAH!  They knew that was a maddening problem for those that didn't enjoy searching, and they did correct it.  Your city map is much more useful these days.

Secondly, to asset the quest chain series problem -- with the exception of raids and pre-reqs, most quest chains can be jumped into by anyone.  Yes, your friend might not complete the series and get their end quest reward (an item), but generally they will get all the xp, loot in quests, and favor rewards if they jump in with their friends that are ahead of them.  The quest series is only a limiting factor when a player decides they will not go into any quest, only the quest they are on. 

It's pretty easy to ask a questing group to roll back a quest or two and reaccomplish them with you so you can advance your story and quest reward.  Some might actually prefer this as they could score more xp or favor if you can unlock a more difficult quest setting than what they previously had accomplished.

DDO's instances are imho it's strength. The first-time dungeon crawls when with a group who have not done them yet, are what make the game great. 

But what hurts it? First the Monty Haulness of the game. From the outset, DDO gave players too powerful weapons, armor, and gadgets. This caused an inflation of hit points for both PC’s and mobs right from the beginning that has continued to present. Add in that overpowered PC's led to incredible mob hps and abilities that then led to a game that requires ridicules amounts of time to farm the right combinations of stuff to custom make even more powerful weapons... and this goes on. What has happened is two fold, first casual players can't keep up... well let me sorta correct myself... if the game had enough content, then casual players wouldn't have a chance to keep up. Second, AC, which should be a huge part of the tank class, means nothing. DPS has become the king and classes are known to give up AC because the goal is to cut down mobs as quick as possible. There is no strategy, no foreplanning (of course everyone has done the same dungeon multiple times since there is such limited content) and quite frankly, you will feel like a hamster on a treadmill since this game has become such in order to get the "best" stuff.

Next problem in the game are the static dungeons that you keep running until you "perfect" them, as the original lead developer of DDO once said. What kind of concept is that? Sure running through a dungeon once or twice may be fun as you find all the nuances but once you know it, where's the challenge? Back before the alpha game even existed many (including me) asked for an instance design that randomized the dungeon each time you entered. But that wasn't the concept that was chosen and the static, three difficulty tiered dungeon (which they later tied favor to in order so people would actually run the dungeons at the highest difficulty) is the model used still today. Like I wrote above, if you like playing a hamster on a treadmill, well this is the game for you...

Another problem of the game is that it is that most of the public area is all inside one smallish city. I’ll admit that I first though this an interesting concept and originally during prealpha liked the idea. I had been playing EQ and recalled the long runs to dungeons and looked forward to having everything near. As the saying goes, be careful of what you wish, you just might get it. And in DDO we got it. A smallish "city" with not much atmosphere (and has not improved much since release) and no vast forests, valleys, mountains, or cavern complexes to roam with others. Now in all fairness the devs have created some fantastic instanced outdoor areas. Very pleasing to the eyes and quite fun to explore with parties. But if you're looking for that wooded area or vast caves under the mountain that you can hang out and shout to anyone just to have a conversation, you won't find it here.

Ok, I think I’ve said enough for now, except I’m looking forward to DDO2 which I personally hope Bioware gets to build…
 

Any time someone says everything happens inside one small city, I know they haven't really played DDO or quit before Mod 4 or, at least, before Mod 6.

The gear is a bit Monty Haul, but that's the nature of MMOs.. Wounding of Puncturing items are maybe one in a hundred thousand, but there are enough chests opening around Stormreach to keep a supply of this item flowing to the richest players.. what can you do about that?

Bioware isn't making a DDO 2. Nobody is. If you want D&D On-line, you're stuck with Turbine, and frankly, you're stuck with a game engine that has done a very good job of bringing D&D into the MMO space (And If your beef is with Eberron, take it to Wizards).

DDO has not failed untill it ends up in the MMO graveyard with Auto Assault, Asheron Call 2, Earth and Beyond, and soon to be Tabula Rasa to name a few. And so far it lasted longer then those games.

 Just beacause it did not cater to want you want in for MMO does not mean its a failer.

Originally posted by moorewr

Any time someone says everything happens inside one small city, I know they haven't really played DDO or quit before Mod 4 or, at least, before Mod 6.

The gear is a bit Monty Haul, but that's the nature of MMOs.. Wounding of Puncturing items are maybe one in a hundred thousand, but there are enough chests opening around Stormreach to keep a supply of this item flowing to the richest players.. what can you do about that?

Bioware isn't making a DDO 2. Nobody is. If you want D&D On-line, you're stuck with Turbine, and frankly, you're stuck with a game engine that has done a very good job of bringing D&D into the MMO space (And If your beef is with Eberron, take it to Wizards).

 

Hey moor.  I realize you're a fanboi of DDO and that you and a few others are trying to bring some interest back to DDO.  Hey, I admit they did some things right.  The combat, character generation, instanced dungeons.  But don't go guessing when I played and how long.  But since you're trying to discount what I wrote by claiming I haven't played since mod 4 or 6, I'll tell you that I've played since closed beta and still have an active sub of one of my three original accounts, which I can't even get myself to log onto anymore... last time I logged on one of my level 16's was a month or so ago... so I think I have ample knowledge from whence I speak.

Look, the game had a great concept.  And I wish the current dev team was the original dev team.  I think the game would have turned out much better.  But such are wishes.  Instead we now have an end game which is a hamster wheel that quite frankly I can't understand why anyone would want to play unless you can deal with lots of repetition. 

Is it worth a play if you never have tried it?  Sure it is.  I would recommend it to anyone who hasn't tried it just for a taste of what true character customization and development is.  Also for the combat system.  Those two things beat every MMO out there hands down.  But unless the devs do something radical, the only peeps that will stay with this game once they reach level cap are the true fanbois like moor (which btw, to reach level cap for a typical MMOer takes about two to three months, depending on your play time.)

Too bad the game has some serious initial design flaws that the current dev team is stuck with.  But I said it back after Mod 6 and I still say it today, I'm waiting for DDO2 or the whatever the next version of DnD Online will be.  And as of now, I hope Bioware will be the developer.

Originally posted by Greyflame11

Originally posted by moorewr

Any time someone says everything happens inside one small city, I know they haven't really played DDO or quit before Mod 4 or, at least, before Mod 6.

The gear is a bit Monty Haul, but that's the nature of MMOs.. Wounding of Puncturing items are maybe one in a hundred thousand, but there are enough chests opening around Stormreach to keep a supply of this item flowing to the richest players.. what can you do about that?

Bioware isn't making a DDO 2. Nobody is. If you want D&D On-line, you're stuck with Turbine, and frankly, you're stuck with a game engine that has done a very good job of bringing D&D into the MMO space (And If your beef is with Eberron, take it to Wizards).

 

 

Hey moor.  I realize you're a fanboi of DDO and that you and a few others are trying to bring some interest back to DDO.  Hey, I admit they did some things right.  The combat, character generation, instanced dungeons.  But don't go guessing when I played and how long.  But since you're trying to discount what I wrote by claiming I haven't played since mod 4 or 6, I'll tell you that I've played since closed beta and still have an active sub of one of my three original accounts, which I can't even get myself to log onto anymore... last time I logged on one of my level 16's was a month or so ago... so I think I have ample knowledge from whence I speak.

 

Look, the game had a great concept.  And I wish the current dev team was the original dev team.  I think the game would have turned out much better.  But such are wishes.  Instead we now have an end game which is a hamster wheel that quite frankly I can't understand why anyone would want to play unless you can deal with lots of repetition. 

 

Is it worth a play if you never have tried it?  Sure it is.  I would recommend it to anyone who hasn't tried it just for a taste of what true character customization and development is.  Also for the combat system.  Those two things beat every MMO out there hands down.  But unless the devs do something radical, the only peeps that will stay with this game once they reach level cap are the true fanbois like moor (which btw, to reach level cap for a typical MMOer takes about two to three months, depending on your play time.)

 

Too bad the game has some serious initial design flaws that the current dev team is stuck with.  But I said it back after Mod 6 and I still say it today, I'm waiting for DDO2 or the whatever the next version of DnD Online will be.  And as of now, I hope Bioware will be the developer.

So to make a long story short, you spent roughly $500 on this game, played it to maximum level and then decreed it a failure.  After that you go on to recommend it to anyone who hasn't tried it.

You don't seem to know what the word 'failure' means.

Originally posted by grimfall

Originally posted by Greyflame11

Originally posted by moorewr

Any time someone says everything happens inside one small city, I know they haven't really played DDO or quit before Mod 4 or, at least, before Mod 6.

The gear is a bit Monty Haul, but that's the nature of MMOs.. Wounding of Puncturing items are maybe one in a hundred thousand, but there are enough chests opening around Stormreach to keep a supply of this item flowing to the richest players.. what can you do about that?

Bioware isn't making a DDO 2. Nobody is. If you want D&D On-line, you're stuck with Turbine, and frankly, you're stuck with a game engine that has done a very good job of bringing D&D into the MMO space (And If your beef is with Eberron, take it to Wizards).

 

 

Hey moor.  I realize you're a fanboi of DDO and that you and a few others are trying to bring some interest back to DDO.  Hey, I admit they did some things right.  The combat, character generation, instanced dungeons.  But don't go guessing when I played and how long.  But since you're trying to discount what I wrote by claiming I haven't played since mod 4 or 6, I'll tell you that I've played since closed beta and still have an active sub of one of my three original accounts, which I can't even get myself to log onto anymore... last time I logged on one of my level 16's was a month or so ago... so I think I have ample knowledge from whence I speak.

 

Look, the game had a great concept.  And I wish the current dev team was the original dev team.  I think the game would have turned out much better.  But such are wishes.  Instead we now have an end game which is a hamster wheel that quite frankly I can't understand why anyone would want to play unless you can deal with lots of repetition. 

 

Is it worth a play if you never have tried it?  Sure it is.  I would recommend it to anyone who hasn't tried it just for a taste of what true character customization and development is.  Also for the combat system.  Those two things beat every MMO out there hands down.  But unless the devs do something radical, the only peeps that will stay with this game once they reach level cap are the true fanbois like moor (which btw, to reach level cap for a typical MMOer takes about two to three months, depending on your play time.)

 

Too bad the game has some serious initial design flaws that the current dev team is stuck with.  But I said it back after Mod 6 and I still say it today, I'm waiting for DDO2 or the whatever the next version of DnD Online will be.  And as of now, I hope Bioware will be the developer.

 

So to make a long story short, you spent roughly $500 on this game, played it to maximum level and then decreed it a failure.  After that you go on to recommend it to anyone who hasn't tried it.

You don't seem to know what the word 'failure' means.

Oh boy, another fanboi trying to dismiss what I wrote... 

First, please don't put words in for me.  I'm not the OP nor have I declaired DDO a failure.  However, like many other MMO's I've played and have invested monthly fees and time, I am choosing to quit this game too.  As far as I'm concerned it has given me what I wanted... cheap entertainment over the course of the years I've played.  And you didn't hear me complain once about the money or time I've invested.

So, I would say I got my enjoyment out of the game.  I also would recommend anyone who hasn't tried the game to try it, but be advised (and it's obviouse the fanbois won't tell you this) at some point... like around current level 14ish... the game becomes a treadmill.  If you like treadmills (which you seem like you do) then continue playing it. 

I'm beyond the emotion of the game.  You seem your not.  Pick at what I say all you want.  Try to dismiss what I write, but the fact is DDO had great promise but didn't achieve it.  It  has become a niche game... something that only hard core DDO fans will continue to play. 

And yes, I think it needs to have the plug pulled so the next version can be created (which unfortunatly probably won't happen until DDO is gone).  Not because I think the game is a failure, but because that is what it will take to start a new game with a clean slate.
 

And what game does not become a treadmill at some point?

Originally posted by Greyflame11

Hey moor.  I realize you're a fanboi of DDO and...

 Thanks for the laugh.

Originally posted by Greyflame11

Originally posted by grimfall

Originally posted by Greyflame11

Originally posted by moorewr

Any time someone says everything happens inside one small city, I know they haven't really played DDO or quit before Mod 4 or, at least, before Mod 6.

The gear is a bit Monty Haul, but that's the nature of MMOs.. Wounding of Puncturing items are maybe one in a hundred thousand, but there are enough chests opening around Stormreach to keep a supply of this item flowing to the richest players.. what can you do about that?

Bioware isn't making a DDO 2. Nobody is. If you want D&D On-line, you're stuck with Turbine, and frankly, you're stuck with a game engine that has done a very good job of bringing D&D into the MMO space (And If your beef is with Eberron, take it to Wizards).

 

 

Hey moor.  I realize you're a fanboi of DDO and that you and a few others are trying to bring some interest back to DDO.  Hey, I admit they did some things right.  The combat, character generation, instanced dungeons.  But don't go guessing when I played and how long.  But since you're trying to discount what I wrote by claiming I haven't played since mod 4 or 6, I'll tell you that I've played since closed beta and still have an active sub of one of my three original accounts, which I can't even get myself to log onto anymore... last time I logged on one of my level 16's was a month or so ago... so I think I have ample knowledge from whence I speak.

 

Look, the game had a great concept.  And I wish the current dev team was the original dev team.  I think the game would have turned out much better.  But such are wishes.  Instead we now have an end game which is a hamster wheel that quite frankly I can't understand why anyone would want to play unless you can deal with lots of repetition. 

 

Is it worth a play if you never have tried it?  Sure it is.  I would recommend it to anyone who hasn't tried it just for a taste of what true character customization and development is.  Also for the combat system.  Those two things beat every MMO out there hands down.  But unless the devs do something radical, the only peeps that will stay with this game once they reach level cap are the true fanbois like moor (which btw, to reach level cap for a typical MMOer takes about two to three months, depending on your play time.)

 

Too bad the game has some serious initial design flaws that the current dev team is stuck with.  But I said it back after Mod 6 and I still say it today, I'm waiting for DDO2 or the whatever the next version of DnD Online will be.  And as of now, I hope Bioware will be the developer.

 

So to make a long story short, you spent roughly $500 on this game, played it to maximum level and then decreed it a failure.  After that you go on to recommend it to anyone who hasn't tried it.

You don't seem to know what the word 'failure' means.

Oh boy, another fanboi trying to dismiss what I wrote... 

First, please don't put words in for me.  I'm not the OP nor have I declaired DDO a failure.  However, like many other MMO's I've played and have invested monthly fees and time, I am choosing to quit this game too.  As far as I'm concerned it has given me what I wanted... cheap entertainment over the course of the years I've played.  And you didn't hear me complain once about the money or time I've invested.

So, I would say I got my enjoyment out of the game.  I also would recommend anyone who hasn't tried the game to try it, but be advised (and it's obviouse the fanbois won't tell you this) at some point... like around current level 14ish... the game becomes a treadmill.  If you like treadmills (which you seem like you do) then continue playing it. 

I'm beyond the emotion of the game.  You seem your not.  Pick at what I say all you want.  Try to dismiss what I write, but the fact is DDO had great promise but didn't achieve it.  It  has become a niche game... something that only hard core DDO fans will continue to play. 

And yes, I think it needs to have the plug pulled so the next version can be created (which unfortunatly probably won't happen until DDO is gone).  Not because I think the game is a failure, but because that is what it will take to start a new game with a clean slate.
 

When I quit playing this game, the level cap was 10.

OK, you didn't say it was 'a failure'.  You just agreed with the OP and then say 'the plug should be pulled' - right after you tell people to try it.

Make up your mind.  Should  people try it or should the game be cancelled?  Because the more people who try it make it less likely it will be cancelled.

Forced grouping, all instances, no crafting, charging as much as a real MMO, Ebberon. Man, I'd say they did few things right. Character development, and, hmmm, I don't know what else is positive about the game.

Its too bad, really, that Turbine screwed up what should have been the best MMO ever.

Originally posted by brostyn

Forced grouping, all instances, no crafting, charging as much as a real MMO, Ebberon. Man, I'd say they did few things right. Character development, and, hmmm, I don't know what else is positive about the game.

 

Its too bad, really, that Turbine screwed up what should have been the best MMO ever.

Who forces you to group?

My greensteel lightning II longsword and dragontouched sovereign vestments beg to differ re:crafting... at least endgame/raid crafting...

..Eberron is a matter of taste, and you should know that Wizards is to blame or credit for the setting, not Turbine.

Funny you should mention character development.. something I find lacking, and not the combat system.. combat is what makes DDO unique to me...

As difficult as a concept as this may seem... I think people should try it right up to the point the plug is pulled... IMHO, any serious MMOer would be remiss to not at least try the game and develop at least one multiclassed character... which is one of the greatest strengths of the game. 

That said, I also advocate DDO's plug being pulled because I realize that's the only way a new DnD Online game will be made... a game I would hope will take the best of DDO, get rid of the ridiculousness, and improve the next generation of DnD Online.  And the sooner the plug is pulled, the sooner someone will begin making that next game.

Wow.

Is Turbine being invited to the funeral?

If a game is still being updated, then it is not dead.

If the game is still being played, then it is not dead.

Whether or not you like it, stop speaking like it is in the coffin already.  It isn't!!!  It's still being played, people are still trying it out, and people are having fun.