Exactly, I mean love or hate the game few people I talk to about these things either don't dislike them or not even know about them.  For instance, take the rogue character.  Rogues disable traps and such but there entire ability to do so has NOTHING to do with any action on their part - it is all a dice roll.  Clicky the toolbar to search and the server decides if you find the disabling mechanism, click the use button to disable and the server decides if you disable it or not.  The entire scenario, often a rather important part of a party getting through a dungeon or getting through without lots of trouble, is determined solely without player skill, entirely by things the rogue had or didn't have prior to the encounter ever starting.  This kind of thing is pervasive throughout the whole game in a number of different ways.  

Beholders are just one example but really no more so than other high end MOBs, I just recalled the one in Threnal cast PK from a ridiculous distance down a very, very long tunnel that winds and winds making LOS impossible even if the game let you see that far which it doesn't.  It can be the mummy i mentioned in the quest over in the desert or any number of other MOBs.  The fact of the matter is that in DDO much of the outcome is determined either completely randomly, and the randomness of rolls is seriously questionable, or simply a matter of what your character is or has and not what you do with him.  If you like this then fine, this is the game for you - but I think that despite the game's many enhancements since launch this remaining circumstance is the reason it fails to attract much of an audience.  People want to PLAY games not watch the server animate the results based on background rolls and such, they want actions to determine outcomes not templates and gear and other such static things.

Of course you are right, D&D didn't have any die rolls, you really are a chump!

D&D pen and paper is not a computer game - there is no way a player in P&P can apply the kinds of skills and control that one can in a computer game.  Nevertheless, I am not saying dice rolls are in and of themselves bad - to an extent all MMOs use some kind of dice roll to settle certain things.  I am criticizing the extent and commonality of circumstances where the dice role is the sole determinate of an outcome.  In DDO the dice roll (and to an extent gear) is far, far too often the sole (or even vastly dominant) determinant with player action either not mattering or simply being of minor influence to the outcome.

Originally posted by AgtSmith

D&D pen and paper is not a computer game - there is no way a player in P&P can apply the kinds of skills and control that one can in a computer game.  Nevertheless, I am not saying dice rolls are in and of themselves bad - to an extent all MMOs use some kind of dice roll to settle certain things.  I am criticizing the extent and commonality of circumstances where the dice role is the sole determinate of an outcome.  In DDO the dice roll (and to an extent gear) is far, far too often the sole (or even vastly dominant) determinant with player action either not mattering or simply being of minor influence to the outcome.

Maybe you didn't play at high levels?

When your attack bonus is +40, your trap skills are +55, your saves are +25 and up, the d20 roll is hardly the determining factor in whether or not you succeed.  In the specific case of traps you're definately wrong - there are common benchmarks trap disablers can achieve so that they never (or very rarely) fail.

Originally posted by Gabrion2

 

 

Maybe you didn't play at high levels?

When your attack bonus is +40, your trap skills are +55, your saves are +25 and up, the d20 roll is hardly the determining factor in whether or not you succeed.  In the specific case of traps you're definately wrong - there are common benchmarks trap disablers can achieve so that they never (or very rarely) fail.

It is simply amazing how many people willa rgue adn deny such basic immutable facts about the game.  If you love the game as it is then why must you argue it is not as it is to defend it?

First, I dont love this game.  Look at most of the comments I make in this forum about it - if anything people probably think I'm a troll for bashing it so much.

Second, you make no sense.  I don't even understand what you are looking for...building a character with certain skills and enhancements and selecting the proper gear IS doing something as a player when it comes to disabling traps.  What do you want, a little minigame like morrowind lock picking or something? 

God I really don't like this game and yet morons like you actually have me defending it because you can't use your brain.  That's sad.

Originally posted by Gabrion2

First, I dont love this game.  Look at most of the comments I make in this forum about it - if anything people probably think I'm a troll for bashing it so much.

Second, you make no sense.  I don't even understand what you are looking for...building a character with certain skills and enhancements and selecting the proper gear IS doing something as a player when it comes to disabling traps.  What do you want, a little minigame like morrowind lock picking or something? 

God I really don't like this game and yet morons like you actually have me defending it because you can't use your brain.  That's sad.

You are the one struggling to use their brain - any rational person understands completely the differance between character attributes (feats and such) and dice rolss being the ONLY determinate in outcomes and being part of an outcome.  Much of the gaming public wants actions, or lack thereof, during an encounter to be the predominant determinate of an encounter but that is often not the case with DDO.  If gear and character attributes and dice roles are the sole determinate, or close to being so, then you are not playing the game but merely watching it unfold.

Originally posted by AgtSmith

 

Originally posted by Gabrion2

First, I dont love this game.  Look at most of the comments I make in this forum about it - if anything people probably think I'm a troll for bashing it so much.

Second, you make no sense.  I don't even understand what you are looking for...building a character with certain skills and enhancements and selecting the proper gear IS doing something as a player when it comes to disabling traps.  What do you want, a little minigame like morrowind lock picking or something? 

God I really don't like this game and yet morons like you actually have me defending it because you can't use your brain.  That's sad.

 

You are the one struggling to use their brain - any rational person understands completely the differance between character attributes (feats and such) and dice rolss being the ONLY determinate in outcomes and being part of an outcome.  Much of the gaming public wants actions, or lack thereof, during an encounter to be the predominant determinate of an encounter but that is often not the case with DDO.  If gear and character attributes and dice roles are the sole determinate, or close to being so, then you are not playing the game but merely watching it unfold.

Player ability comes in how you build your character, your stats, chosen skills, race and equipment all factor into your abilities...thats where the skill comes in, but just like in real life, everything requires a certain amount of luck as well.

Its an age-old game mechanic, I'm just not sure what you're asking for instead

At some point in time the programming has to take over and determine the outcome of an action you take.  This is how video games work.

um programs "decide" things with simulated die rolls....you can't be that retarded

Originally posted by Gabrion2

At some point in time the programming has to take over and determine the outcome of an action you take.  This is how video games work.

Understandable - but in DDO the 'action' is too often irrelvant.  The program simply decides based on what you where/are before the encounter started or what you brought with you and not on what you do or don't do in way, way, way too many cases.

Originally posted by AgtSmith

 

Originally posted by Gabrion2

At some point in time the programming has to take over and determine the outcome of an action you take.  This is how video games work.

 

Understandable - but in DDO the 'action' is too often irrelvant.  The program simply decides based on what you where or what you brought with you - not on what you do or don't do in way, way, way too many cases.

Maybe you can give me an example of an MMO that does what you are talking about so that I can better understand. 

Originally posted by AgtSmith

 

Originally posted by