Originally posted by Elnator 

 

Bottom line:

It is Dungeons and Dragons.  Not an FPS.  The PLAYERS skill has zip, zero, nada, to do with the character's ability to accomplish tasks.  The skills that the character has determines that.  Its the way AD&D has always worked.  It's simply amazing how many people argue about a game mechanic that's innate to the title:  Dungeons & Dragons.  It is what it is.  Don't sit here and argue that it doesn't work right, because it does.  Just because you'd prefer it be done differently doesn't mean it's working 'wrong'.

Fair enough - but it makes for a video game with serious issues is what I am saying.  And as many people know they have cheated the D&D rules quite a bit to toughen it up as it was getting waxed early on by players.  So you get a bad video game with a stacked version of the D&D rules as well.  It is little ownder the gaming public has largely rejected the game and populations remain very small.

Like a couple of other people have said Smith; I don't relly know how to respond. Your fever about arguing points that seem very alien to me is a bit disarming. DDO has things I like and things I don't and I only play it one out of every 3-4months (due mostly to lack of content) but the things you seem to have a problem with almost seem delusional to me. I haven't experinced the mobs playing by different rules (unless they where meant to), and the aspects of player skill is not unlike 99% of most other mmos, and while I agree that DDO dosen't have as strong of a following as it should due to design choices made, it's hardly a failure in the since that the game isn't making money or enjoyed by 10s of thosands of players. And, I play on 2 different servers and it is seldom on either server that I ever have trouble finding a team and both of the servers are pretty busy.

I cartainly not a fanboi and if you came out here with a greif that I understood i'd back you up, but I just don't see it. You certainly have your right to your opinion, but like everyone else I have to agree your off the mark. I would have to say your negative experience seems to be due to something out of DDO's control. Out of all  the responses we aren't all apologists just because we don't agree with you. I certainly have no qualms about listing a list of problems I have about DDO (and have before), but there is nothing in the game that makes it almost unplayable or about to fall apart as you seem to be trying to indicate.

I never said the 'different rules' where not by design - I even suggested they are intentional.  Clearly the game was beat bad when it went live and Turbine has spent the time since rigging the MOBs in a number of ways to make it seem more challenging.  My contention is that by 'cheating' on what MOBs can do they are not making the game tougher they are only making encounters more gear/attribute driven and taking player skill/action out of the equation.  As for populations and considering it as an indication of the game as a failure or success - I think DDO is easily a poster boy for failed MMOs, perhaps just behind Vanguard.  Does Turbine make money off it - out of my realm of comment - but is it a good game received well by the general MMO public or even the IP fans - hardly.

After 4 pages of back and forth on this opinion (sorry, don't have the time to read every page), my intuition about the game seems still to hold.  I know there are folks who like it, that's good, I'm glad there is enough subscribers who enjoy DDO to keep its investment running.  But from everything I've read about the game both here and from other informative sites, I know I'd find too much fault with it for my satisfaction.  I'd much prefer playing NWN or NWN2 to get my AD&D fix online.  

Its kind of a shame really, I had held out higher hopes for the game during its development, though its good to see that Turbine is still taking care of their current subscribers with added content.  But...I can't stand Eberron, that along with other select, inherit features of the game, keep me away from it.

Originally posted by Seeker728

After 4 pages of back and forth on this opinion (sorry, don't have the time to read every page), my intuition about the game seems still to hold.  I know there are folks who like it, that's good, I'm glad there is enough subscribers who enjoy DDO to keep its investment running.  But from everything I've read about the game both here and from other informative sites, I know I'd find too much fault with it for my satisfaction.  I'd much prefer playing NWN or NWN2 to get my AD&D fix online.  

Its kind of a shame really, I had held out higher hopes for the game during its development, though its good to see that Turbine is still taking care of their current subscribers with added content.  But...I can't stand Eberron, that along with other select, inherit features of the game, keep me away from it.

Sounds like you don't really have an opinion of your own, but are happy picking from other peoples.

That's not fair Rock. Not everyone plays every game to hit the market. People make choices and beliefs on secodary information on 99% of all subjects (hell that's what education is all about). Just because he doesn't come to a decision you do or like dosn't make it unvalid.  Some people will enjoy DDO a lot won't I don't see any reason to think he can't make an informed opinion for himself based on filtering the information out there.

As for Smith, I still think your reaching .All MMO mobs do that to some extent. MObs and Players never play by the same rules. It's even part of game design philosophy.

Originally posted by bverji

That's not fair Rock. Not everyone plays every game to hit the market. People make choices and beliefs on secodary information on 99% of all subjects (hell that's what education is all about). Just because he doesn't come to a decision you do or like dosn't make it unvalid.  Some people will enjoy DDO a lot won't I don't see any reason to think he can't make an informed opinion for himself based on filtering the information out there.

As for Smith, I still think your reaching .All MMO mobs do that to some extent. MObs and Players never play by the same rules. It's even part of game design philosophy.

I wasn't trying to be fair or unfair, was purely an observation, but I will elaborate.

The best opinion is one you form with direct experience, but it isn't practical for everyone to try every MMO that comes out. So we have to filter them in some way, normally based on some design feature they have or don't have. We may also take other peoples opinions in to account, although personally I think you have to approach any strong opinions (either way) with a healthy dose of realism.

Now most people do that, but there is a distinct difference when you go to the effort of posting to say you won't play something based on others opinions. It clearly shows the MMO is not off your radar, if it was you wouldn't bother with the effort of doing so. Then posting in a rather mad negative thread, and stating you haven't read it properly, but it confirms your intuitions, all seems a little mixed up for me.

Now funny enough I am in the same boat with AoC, I know there are elements in the design that will annoy me, poor group AI, homing projectiles, PvP focus, basic quests, and a questionable community. But I have a level of interest, intuitions yes, but nothing to base a real opinion on, I could go through the boards find enough evidence to prop up my intuitions and leave it there, or I could just try it when a trial comes out and have a real opinion.

In contrast WAR, I have no interest in and no opinion on. I don't need to state I won't be playing it, or find posts to back up a reason not to. I can just decide not to put it on my radar. If I did need to go on to the WAR boards to state I will not be playing it and justify why not, then I would have to question myself on why exactly I was going to that much effort.

Well Rock I am in the same place on both AOC and WAR. I came to the conclusion that AOC isn't what I want based upon what I have read about it, and I also have no real opinion about WAR other then it doesn't interest me. However, I have posted a couple of times in threads about the level of interest in the game that I have no interest in it.

IMO here is the bottom line with this game.

It's a unique group based PvE game. If you like group PvE, try it out, it's free! This game has zero grind/ x of x quest. It's quest are the most interactive. I guarantee the most mature player base, voice chat in groups works great. You can join a guild or jump into a pug's and have good success most of the time. This game is much different then a typical grind mmo, which most are.

Be prepared for a learning curve on build your character and getting total control of the interface. But stick with it both work well in the long-run. Also throw auto-attack away, this is the most real-time fantasy mmo, take advantage of it.

Originally posted by bverji

 

As for Smith, I still think your reaching .All MMO mobs do that to some extent. MObs and Players never play by the same rules. It's even part of game design philosophy.

Perhaps, but the problem in DDO is the extent to which it does this and the extent to which the game's challenges rely on doing it which is far, far to often.

Originally posted by BesCirga

That was a big wall of text with very little substance...much whine though. To be honest, I dont even know how to respond to a thread like this, are we supposed to?

Reading a 40 year old person bragging about a computer game being incredibly easy, gave me a chuckle though. The five minutes were not intirely wasted

 

Originally posted by sabutai22

 

Originally posted by BesCirga

That was a big wall of text with very little substance...much whine though. To be honest, I dont even know how to respond to a thread like this, are we supposed to?

Reading a 40 year old person bragging about a computer game being incredibly easy, gave me a chuckle though. The five minutes were not intirely wasted

 

This post is classic natural selection.

 

 

Yes it was. But if you bothered to read more than one post before you decided to respond, you would see that I apologized for it...no need to dig it up gain.