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Seed News - Game Closing
Posted by Dana Massey on Sep 28, 2006 | 57 comments in our forums
Sad news today from Danish developers Runestone. Seed, their non-combat MMORPG, is soon closing its doors after a few months of service. The company has simply run out of money. Below is a letter from CEO Lars Kroll Kristensen.
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We’ve reached the end of the road [September 28, 2006] Open letter to the community For the past two months, I and a few others have attempted to sell a partnership deal to a long list of publishers and MMO companies, trying to raise the capital we needed to finish the game properly, and re-launch it in a form it, and especially you the community, deserve. While we have received a great deal of interest, we have not been able to close a deal. The harsh reality is that we have now officially run out of money, and out of options, and therefore, we cannot pay salaries, rent or hosting fees. What this means to you, is unfortunately that you will only be able to play Seed for a very limited time. We will have a little “goodbye” ceremony this Sunday at 20 CEST. I will be there, in the garden, as Magellan. He was the first character online, and he will be the last. I hope some of you guys will be there too, even if the occasion is sad. After that day, the servers may be less stable and reliable, and AD GMs will only be online on their own free time, if at all. Same goes for Runestone Staff. For us, it means that the dream of Seed and Runestone is over. It has been a wild, weird ride, full of frustration, triumph, joy, stress and fun, but never boredom. We have all learned incredibly much about game development, the gaming business and MMOs. We’ve made some major mistakes, and some smart moves along the way, but in the end, we simply tried to do too much, with too few funds, which I guess is a typical “Rookie”, and even veteran error. I, for one, would do it all over again, although I would do a great many things differently next time around. For the MMO community and business as such, the rise and fall of Runestone probably doesn’t mean that much, but I hope MMO execs out there reading this letter will draw the *right* conclusions from Runestone and Seed, and *not* the wrong ones. One thing I would hate to see happen as a result of our failure would be a consensus forming that the idea about a non-combat, role play-centric MMO is a bad idea. It isn’t. I am still fully convinced that a role play-centric game is not only a good idea: It’s a great idea. It just needs to be better executed. Seed has many of the right qualities for such a game, and I still firmly believe that, given sufficient funding, we could have created a great game. Unfortunately, we will never know. We’ve reached the end of the road, and to all those of you who have followed us along this wild, weird ride I say a big, big thank you. It’s been a pleasure serving you our game, and your constant faith in us has been a major morale booster when times seemed tough. I hope Seed gave you some enjoyment, some great times and some fun along the way, maybe even some new friends. I hope you will demand more from your future games in terms of role playing with other players, and in terms of player influence in the world. ‘Cause that’s what role playing games and role playing communities are all about. The people playing them. Lars Kroll Kristensen |
You can find out more on the Seed website.
thats really sad news
i followed the progress of this game since a very early stage - i even got into beta - unfortunately i had bad timing and the beta was over exactly that day i wanted to play it for the first time
also it was kinda hard to get info what this game was about
besides that the graphics are definately a matter of taste
if there had been some kind of trial i had tried it and who knows maybe i would have liked it
but yah its sad to see the hard work of some ppl go down like this
all the best to you guys
Things went bad when investors pushed them to releace it early. This is a fact that the devlopers themselves said when they did releace "We are releacing to early".
The graphics were great, strong art directions, and the gameplay unique.
I was really hoping they would survive.
It's really sad when an MMO dies. Like when MM3.0 died I felt like part of my life was going to waste. It felt like I was losing a friend or something. I guess it's sad that I got that attached to a game. That's the general idea though, isn't it? If people didn't get attached then they wouldn't be successful. I'd love if some company read this letter then gave seed an option to thrive. I've never played it but I'd try it.
Michael.
This is sad but I had a feeling this would happen, especially since they were being forced to push out the game. The concept though is great and here's hoping they or someone bring the concept back out.
This is good for the MMOG market. More of these games that have pitiful small playerbases should close down.
It means these players will migrate to a healthier game and help keep it alive. There are way too many crappy and niche games out there and it just divides the player base too much. If the game isn't making a decent profit, shut it down.
Yes, there are alot of other games out there that are bigger.. but, "Small Fries" should have their turn also with the player-base!!
Good luck with what ever you now do in the future!
Sorry the game was a wash good luck on your next mmo
It is sad, and I feel a bit responsible because I would not longer support the game after it was released too early and incomplete, but that never meant that I wasn't still a fan of the game. I wanted it to succeed, mainly because I am a believer that roleplay-centric, non-combat mmorpgs can be successful and fun.
As Lars mentioned, it was not properly executed, but I figured with time ( and more funds ), Runestone would correct the things that were done wrong, and at that time I was surely going to return to play their game.
He's is also right when he said these games are all about the community, something you still obviously haven't pick up on yet, Jorev.
Hmm, doesnt look like the end is near just yet!, this posted just this afternoon on the seed forums:
How can a game closing be a good thing for the MMO market?
Not everyone wants to play SOE and Blizzard games... what a boring market THAT would be. Just because some MMO's have large playerbases, doesn't mean they're any GOOD. LOL
Here's wishing smaller MMO companies and niche games thrive! Nothing like having a CHOICE.
Best of luck to the developers and staff of SEED. May they find a nice small company that develops a game that shows these big companies that it takes more than money to be successful in this market. Maybe then we'd have better customer service, more interesting games with people who actually CARE about the games they create and not just the bottom line.
I've been with SEED ever since I found it, long before Beta.
SEED spell-bound me with its no-combat concept, its graphics and its community.
I find this a very sad day and I will miss this game, the Ring and the people I played with.
I wish the staff the very best. They were a very likeable group, and did actually listen to the community. If we are lucky Seed will be revived.
You know, I started the game not too long ago. I won't lie, it was rough going in an "alpha" way. There was a lot of hangs, and a lot of crashes. I have to tell you though that if it were any other game, I'd leave and not look back.
Yet there is something about Seed that made me really, really want to fight through it all, and progress through the story. It wasn't the best situation, but it was something worth playing. Perhaps because, unlike every other game out there, I never had to worry about having some 1337d00d saying, "u join our guild and twink out." Nobody ever said to me, "we don't need ur roleplay foofoo crap, cuz we need more mobs and more DPS." Nobody ever said to me, "if you ain't on ventrillo, you can't play."
There were plenty of solo things to do at all hours, and plenty of things you could do as a group. I guess what made some not understand Seed if they played an MMOFPS is that a lot of people came to Seed for the character-driven nature of it, and not the "button mashing." It was a great platform for deep storytelling, and shared fiction.
The style and setting really made you feel like you were part of the story, and out of all the games I ever played, it had the most helpful playerbase and GM staff. Perhaps because they knew that they had to fight to keep the game growing, against all odds. Given the state it was in, I was impressed at how hard Runestone worked to fix things on the fly.
I think all of us there wanted to see the game survive, but I also think that everyone knew deep down it was just a matter of time before the game shut down. Make no mistake about it though, it was never the concept and the gameplay that brought Seed down. To tell you the truth, the concept and gameplay were the only things that made the game survive for as long as it did. My only regret is that I didn't get more involved sooner, so I'd experience a whole lot more of the gameplay. I never saw any other region besides Recspace before yesterday.
A truly thought provoking, deep, loveable MMO, and one that I'll never forget, that was destroyed by the politics and economics of the gaming business before it ever had a chance to prove itself.
Seed had the BEST on-line community of any MMO, the simple fact is that the people who played Seed are not just going to jump into WoW or EQ2.
What the hell does a small playerbase have to do with anything? If that small playerbase had wanted to play WoW then they would have already. Am I missing the joke or something?
What the hell is wrong wtih niche games?! I honestly never thought I'd see the day that somoene would moan that not all gamers are playing the same games, you do know what the rest of the gaming world thinks of MMO players don't you? Before Blizzard gave us the Fisherprice MMORPG, MMO's were niche games next to the might of the FPS etc...
In fact it's not THAT long ago that owning a PC and playing games on it made you a "niche" gamer in most parts of the world.
This is what happens when you release a game early. I was very interested in the game but when I read about the early release I quickly decided that I would play the game until it was at least a few months old because I knew what state it would be in and I wasn't interested to pay for another beta test.
Hope this will serve and a reminder to both developer and more importantly investors. Pushing for an early release will not give you your money back sooner, it will only make sure you never get them back.
Sometimes I think developers focus too much on trying new things, and not enough on making things fun. I fell that is the case with Seed.
That is pretty much how I feel about them. The "no combat" thing seemed more like a gimmick to get people's attention than a real gameplay decision. Having decided not to have any type of combat in their game, they didn't find anything to replace it with. The fact is they made a game with very very little to do, and asked their subscribers to pretend they was something to do... and call that role-playing. Role-playing should go on top of game mechanics, not in place of them.
I don't think their problem was doing too much, like they stated in that press release.. It was the exact opposite in my opinion. If they thought there was a small segment of the gaming community that wanted an empty stage to roleplay on, they should have found a way to include that option in a game with enough of a potential playerbase to keep the lights on.
"One thing I would hate to see happen as a result of our failure would be a consensus forming that the idea about a non-combat, role play-centric MMO is a bad idea."
I personally hope that is exactly the consensus that that comes out of this deal.
Hopefully the company can find some way of keeping the game going, I mean if Shadowbane can continue to go strong, hey, you never know right?
I know. Who needs originality and innovation when you have quality rehash?
Oh yeah. That's right. Millions of us. Silly of me to forget.
Seed tried something new. Did it work? That's debatable. Was it trying to further the genre in a different direction than it's going? Without a doubt. If you're waiting for the big companies to step up and bring us something truly fresh and new, you might as well have a seat and take a number.
I know. Who needs originality and innovation when you have quality rehash?
Oh yeah. That's right. Millions of us. Silly of me to forget.
Seed tried something new. Did it work? That's debatable. Was it trying to further the genre in a different direction than it's going? Without a doubt. If you're waiting for the big companies to step up and bring us something truly fresh and new, you might as well have a seat and take a number.
I don't think it was the new that killed Seed. I think it was the grinding. I think we could all learn a little from that.
I don't think this game failed because it was non-combat. The Sims Online is non-combat and it has sold a bagillion copies. Second Life and Project Entropia are non-combat. Toontown is sort of non-combat. There are probably other examples.
From what I have read the problem was you have non-combat + unusual graphics + a sandbox style of play with limited content + a science fiction setting (in which people are accustomed to combat) + it was marketed to an audience accustomed to something else + too little funds to get it where they wanted it.
Add all that up and you have a very, very small audience.
This seems like a nice group of people and I'm sorry their game is closing, but they did take some huge risks with this title, you have to admit.
It wasn't released, it escaped.
The non-combat hook has never been in question. The game was horribly broken. There was no marketing for the game. There were not enough people to make a community. The non-combat stuff was all grinding.
I applaud the developers for trying. I'm sure every last one of us on this board and in all games wiches they could be a part of any game development that would actually see the light of day. I hope all other game developers learn from their mistakes and willingness to break out of the norm.
Nowhere did I imply that former Seed fans should migrate to a SOE game or to WoW. Anyone who has paid attention to my views knows I dislike SOE and WoW is only worth playing short term, it's a simple game for the masses, at best an introduction to MMOGs for novices.
Some people have honestly stated that Seed's lack of success was based on it's early release in an unfinished state and just not being fun. We see both small and large developers releasing crap these days and when they do, they deserve a quick death.
There are quality niche games by small developers though that need and deserve a larger playerbase to become healthy, and those are the ones that suffer when the majority of gamers are playing WoW or divided amongst too many crappy little games. Take a look at the list of released games on the main game list on this site and honestly tell me how many of these games you think are good. Most of them suck.
Now we all have our opinions about which games are good and what we like, but the market doesn't play favorites and it will impartially determine which games deserve to live or die, wether they are produced by small or large developers. Right now there are too many unworthy MMOGs in the marketplace which sap resources from quality games that deserve to thrive.
Somewhere, someplace, in sometime, there is a place where discontinued MMORPG's are still being played. Earth and Beyond, AC2, Ultima Online IX (or was it XI?), and now... SEED.
No game goes unplayed forever, do do not lament.
The reason this game failed wasn't because there weren't players who didn't enjoy the concept. The reason this game failed was because the game crashed, hanged, had immense lag, had an interface that was internal testing grade, and bugs up the wazoo. They did a lot to solve the content problem in subsequent publishes. Technical problems and the early release drove more players away than anything else.
I still miss Wish.
I'm trying hard here but what you say here isn't as such was you said in your first post. Seed leaving us is NOT a good thing. I can agree with your points here but not in your first post.
Seed was one of the most inovative MMORPG concepts out there. It is true that less/no combat will give more room for role playing. But it wasn't nearly finished. It would've at least taken another year of development.
Am I glad the niche game i'm playing is in the hands of a steady producer.
It is sad indeed. I didn't understand a part, maybe the staff or someone can explain...
For about 90% of this thread and the messages, I think everyone means that everything is closing. However, in the original message, he was saying something about "been lucky if you will encounter a GM in the future", or something among those lines...
I do understand that the devs and everything behind close...is there still going to be an open server even staff-less/unpaid free-workers? Is this a last stand these devs are TRYING to do but it has to be confirmed?
I know it is never going to heal the fanbase, but just to know that what was done can be saw and played further...I mean, I just misunderstood this part prolly, but well, asking anyway, curious me.
Farewell Seed.
If only things would have worked out better.
Hopefully someone will pick this up and finish it properly.
Hats off and a pat on the back for the developers of SEED for a most noble attempt at providing the gaming community with fun and enjoyment. I'm saddened to hear that things didnt work out and those guys have my upmost appreciation as an online gamer. What doesnt kill you only makes you stronger guys. Never give up! God bless!
Gametap ;)
I'm sad that Seed is closing. It had some innovative ideas that I think a lot of people never discovered. An example is npc's that respond to emotes and to the manner in which you are speaking to them (agressive, friendly ect.)
I've subscribed to this game since beta and still is, even though I never played it much. I do this because I hope the Runestone staff will pick it up at some point and sort out the bugs.
Keep up the good work, Runestone. Hope you've gained some useful experience for the next time you make a game. I will be watching
I played my self Seed for about month or two. I can say it was one of unique MMORPG. I was planing to come look it about year later, give it time to mature, but it got closed week later than I canceled my account.
Game was technically little broken and half way done, but graphics, community, story, design, GM's, Development people and atmosphere was great. I'm gonna miss this kind, a more creative MMORPGs than those current "EQ" clones with notting else than leveling.
Bye all Seedlings, good luck for You travels.
No, no open server. The server will remain open for around a week but it will not be monitored (ie only auto reboot if something goes wrong) and GMs will only be there in their spare time(if at all). There was a "goodbye" speach yesterday ingame (and yes, IC as well) and I doubt people will be logging in anymore to roleplay...If people are in-game its most likely only to grab a few last screenshots etc.
Oh and to comment a bit on what people have said: Yes the game needed more work. But it still surprises me that there wasnt more people who could see that without our support the game would close down. What surprises me even more is that there was no publisher willing to make a relaunch of the game... Most investors just cant see a good idea when you throw it in their face I guess...
Secondly, while SEED's comic-book graphics engine looked great - and that engine/platform is still available for developing other games - the rest of this game was ridiculously below the bar for a modern release. Nightmare UI, pointless grinds, endless lists of unimplemented basics, etc.
The endless "RP debates" and "nonviolent debates" were red herrings IMHO. There is nothing wrong with RP but it has to flow naturally from the contours of a well written game. You can't launch NothingWorksQuest 1.0 and then badger people to roleplay the miserable stub of working gameworld provided. I mean, you *can*... and then you can read a news item like this one.
Similarly, the whole nonviolence thing was overblown. There are people playing nonviolent roles in a ton of MMO's out there. That's proof that noncombat gameplay is popular; you don't need a half-baked martyr game to demonstrate the principle. What you do need is a well designed, smartly implemented game that makes nonviolent gameplay INTERESTING in its own right, rather than just expecting people to groove on the supposed uniqueness.
My best hope is that someone who knows what they're doing in the MMO business is inspired by SEED's best points and makes a kickass game embodying some of the ideas. Without hatch repairs please :)
I lol'd
"For the MMO community and business as such, the rise and fall of Runestone probably doesn’t mean that much, but I hope MMO execs out there reading this letter will draw the *right* conclusions from Runestone and Seed, and *not* the wrong ones.
One thing I would hate to see happen as a result of our failure would be a consensus forming that the idea about a non-combat, role play-centric MMO is a bad idea.
It isn’t."
O RLY?
I didn't play Seed, but I sympathize greatly with the community. It is horrible for a game with such a devoted community to be closed down.
But from what I read in the SEED forums, at least some of the community have plans to migrate to SOR. I hope that works out.
Godspeed guys
Yes it IS sad indeed, despite what some morons may say on these boards...
I didnt play the game, it really wasnt my cup of tea, but it is always sad when some people put their lives and energy in creating something different and it doesnt work out because they are swallowed by the majority...
I'm tired of this one and only way of thinking, if i knew about the game's difficulties, maybe i'd have played it a bit just to help them out, not that it would have made any difference, but...
I beta tested it, gave it a try. It did have a huge amount of lag during the test but I found they cleaned that up a bit later, even going so far as to delay a month to get that sorted out. I don't fault them on the graphics, its a style, not one I really liked all that much but it worked ok. The main issue I felt was just the numerous bugs I had encountered but by all accounts didn't seem to get fixed well into the release. That coupled with teh fact of a non-combat mmorpg didn't have much of a draw from the normal space/mmorpg crowd. I didn't see this ever becoming a huge wow success but it was defintely one with out of the box thinking for mmorpg's of today (non-combat).
So long Seed, and Thanks for all the fish!
yeah i'd definetly agree... in the beta, they really struggled with lag and keeping the servers up, but when they were the gameplay seemed great. so what if it didnt have combat? it was a great idea imo, and the graphics were great.
Surely the MMORPG.com writers have already begun working on an article that gets to the bottom of this mess. Right? Who's responsible for this? I want names dammit!
Need to start black-ballin' these idiot investors!