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63 posts found
  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

1/01/13 3:19:51 AM#41
Originally posted by Dauntis
I don't see why people say a "Hybrid" is impossible. What if they made an mmo that had civillized areas that NPC's populate and give quests and such, but also had wide open "unexplored" wild areas that players could use to create their own content, like building player run cities etc.? 

Its not impossible. its just some people ignore the ketchup they get on the side with dinner, And some people get PISSED if they are given ketchup on the side with dinner.

 

Eve in fact is a great example of a hybrid. if people never venture out into Null sec they will never see the sandbox portion.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  Corehaven

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/11
Posts: 1574

I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you.

1/01/13 3:20:59 AM#42
Originally posted by Dauntis
I really just like to spark up this conversation occasionally to see how the definitions have changed. This hardly makes me a troll. I actually want answers and opinions, not trying to grief people.

 

I actually appreciate your thread and the questions you are throwing out.  No shame in doing that.  No I don't think you are trolling. We're also beginning to get some input here on the perceived differences, which I would imagine are a little different for everybody. 

 

Sandbox games typically give players the tools to create in their own worlds.  Alliances, enemies, houses, towns.  Upredictable things can happen here.  It gives the players the ability to create their world in a sense. 

 

Themeparks are typically pre created worlds.  They function in the way the developers intended for them to, and creativity is limited to the developers, not typically the players. 

 

I always imagined sandboxes were akin to dumping a bunch of action figures in front of a 7 year old and seeing what he does with them, while themeparks are like a board game you want to play with him.  There are rules.  He must follow them. 

  Methios

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/11
Posts: 156

1/01/13 3:24:43 AM#43
Originally posted by Dauntis
I don't see why people say a "Hybrid" is impossible. What if they made an mmo that had civillized areas that NPC's populate and give quests and such, but also had wide open "unexplored" wild areas that players could use to create their own content, like building player run cities etc.? 

AA works that way correct?

  Rayshe

Novice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1295

1/01/13 3:29:33 AM#44
Originally posted by zomard100
Well in some points you are right. WOW is more sandbox then most of ''sandbox' games. Auction house=player driven economy, free to go where ever you want, attack people where ever you want, now we get  housing. Me as long time Eve Online player can't see much difference, only what you can't do in wow id looting of players, rest is almost the same

BZZZ incorrect.

 

The difference is that you can sell drops aswell from mobs. Also it depends on how hardcore into Sandbox you go. I was a Avid player of Face of Mankind. If it was on the market, Another player made it. So in order to get that item i need to pay that player, Now that player has Cost + Profit back. which he can either spend or make more items out of. FoM Also had a set amount of money floating in the game, So taxes were added to Cost which would go to whoever owned the land you were making the trade on. Also if you went and mined on their land (this being a function that was automated, Being a Sci Fi game no one uses a pick anymore) There would be extra costs dictated by that faction.

 

There would also be multiple different planets you can get those resources from. So that you needed to shop around to make sure you were getting the most bang for your buck.

 

Thus when you go deep into Sandbox you see how the math starts changing. instead of "i spent time mining tin Lodes to make Tin armor" your get

I currently have a mining operation on 3 seperate planets to bring the materials i need in order to earn the materials to make this assult Rifle. If they dont sell im still at a loss because i cant get my money back.

 

Then again, i havent seen a game nearly as complex as Face of Mankind in a long time.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  Robokapp

Hard Core Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4821

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

1/01/13 3:31:12 AM#45

Themepark: enter castle, kill dragon, rescue princess.

 

Sandbox: take over the castle, kill princess, rape dragon. OR enter castle, kill and rape princess, rscue dragon. Or burn the castle down with princess an dragon. Or enter castle, force dragon to rape princess. Or princess to rape dragon.

 

 

  WhiteLantern

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2782

1/01/13 3:34:11 AM#46
Originally posted by Robokapp

Themepark: enter castle, kill dragon, rescue princess.

 

Sandbox: take over the castle, kill princess, rape dragon. OR enter castle, kill and rape princess, rscue dragon. Or burn the castle down with princess an dragon. Or enter castle, force dragon to rape princess. Or princess to rape dragon.

 

 

Ya know, I'm not a sandbox guy, but after reading your description, I'm changing sides. All of those scenarios sound.....intriguing.

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  Corehaven

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/11
Posts: 1574

I swear by my pretty floral bonnet, I will end you.

1/01/13 3:34:31 AM#47
Originally posted by Robokapp

Themepark: enter castle, kill dragon, rescue princess.

 

Sandbox: take over the castle, kill princess, rape dragon. OR enter castle, kill and rape princess, rscue dragon. Or burn the castle down with princess an dragon. Or enter castle, force dragon to rape princess. Or princess to rape dragon.

 

 

 

I don't know what sandboxes you've been playing, and honestly, I'd rather just not know. 

  Methios

Novice Member

Joined: 4/11/11
Posts: 156

1/01/13 4:03:34 AM#48
Originally posted by Robokapp

Themepark: enter castle, kill dragon, rescue princess.

 

Sandbox: take over the castle, kill princess, rape dragon. OR enter castle, kill and rape princess, rscue dragon. Or burn the castle down with princess an dragon. Or enter castle, force dragon to rape princess. Or princess to rape dragon.

 

 

What game did I miss?

  pupurun

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/17/09
Posts: 546

1/01/13 4:30:04 AM#49

 

''WoW is a Sandbox''

 

...then Jessica Alba is my grandma

  Ramanadjinn

Novice Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 1316

1/01/13 6:10:27 AM#50
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by Dauntis
I don't see why people say a "Hybrid" is impossible.

Can you link to where someone said it was impossible?

 

While I doubt he is referring to me I have made that claim.

I don't feel a hybrid themepark/sandbox is possible just as I don't feel a hybrid amusement park/roller coaster is possible.

amusement parks may or may not have roller coasters.  putting a roller coaster in an amusement park does not make it a hybrid amusement park/roller coaster, it only makes it an amusement park with a roller coaster.  

 

I feel a sandbox MMO could theoretically contain all the content of say, World of Warcraft, while still offering its sandbox style of nonlinear gameplay and player created content.  Much like how SWG, EVE, and some others offered questing, dungeons, and sometimes raids and battleground style pvp.  Adding fun things to do in a sandbox style game doesn't make them any less of a sandbox or any sort of hybrid in my personal opinion.

 

  cylon8

Novice Member

Joined: 6/10/07
Posts: 314

1/01/13 6:21:31 AM#51

ok so let see in theroy free realm si shte in fact a sandbox...it has a huge explorable world and player housing

but it's a theme park because it has quests and a tab targeting instance and sometimes overworld combat system.

 

wow is a walled instanced world with tabbed targeted sometimes overworld sometimes instanced combat.

it has now player housing and the closest thing it has to a sandbox feature is a farmville style of farming?

 

no offense but this is such a bating post i question why it wasn't locked

so say we all

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/01/13 6:52:07 AM#52
First time I've seen this thread

Nearly fell off my chair
  zymurgeist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5212

1/01/13 7:40:05 AM#53

Yes WoW is somewhat a sandbox. Most if not all  MMOs are sandboxes to some extent. People just want to pretend there is a hard and fast line of what is and what is not a sandbox and move it wherever it suits them. A sandbox is a game with nonlinear gameplay.  Questing does not make a game a theme park. Sandboxes can have quests just not quests that must all be completed in a specific order without skipping any. Sandboxes can have zones and instances. Even zones and instances designed for particular levels. It just can't have all content locked off until you reach a certain level and zones that can't be skipped. See how that works? Nonlinear. It's a simple concept.

 

Is WoW a sandbox is a meaningless question. How much of a sandbox is WoW is a much better question. The answer is not that much. Here's something to boggle your mind. A perfectly nonlinear game can't have character progression, rules, or limitations of any sort. Every MMO is a compromise between linearity and nonlinearity.

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  darker70

Novice Member

Joined: 10/21/08
Posts: 822

A child of five would understand this. Send someone to fetch a child of five.
Groucho Marx

1/01/13 7:53:46 AM#54

Crikey this thread  is scrapeing the barrel for credibility take every update for say The Repopulation and put them side by side for comparison now compare Themepark WOW,to massive sandbox like features of Repop and especiallly the latest updates.

Me lords ladies and gents of the MMORPG jury I now present my case for the prosecution. 

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/01/13 7:56:22 AM#55
If wow isn't a themepark, what is?

Basicly if you are insane enough to consider wow a sandbox in anyway what so ever, what goes in the themepark category? Err.. swtor and I'm struggling for something else, maybe tsw?
  zymurgeist

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/24/04
Posts: 5212

1/01/13 8:19:40 AM#56
Originally posted by ShakyMo
If wow isn't a themepark, what is?

Basicly if you are insane enough to consider wow a sandbox in anyway what so ever, what goes in the themepark category? Err.. swtor and I'm struggling for something else, maybe tsw?

 All MMOs I can think of  are themeparks. Just because a virtual world is partly sandbox that doesn't mean it can't be partly themepark and vice versa. It's like saying and grapefruit is a fruit therefore an tangerine can't be a fruit. If that were true what is a tangelo?

"Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

1/01/13 8:27:08 AM#57
But there is nothing sandbox at all about wow.

If you were to use a themepark with sandbox elements as an example, you would use something like daoc or EQ as an example, not wow

Wow us just about as themepark as you can get, the only obvious game out themeparking it being swtor.
  remyburke

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/03/04
Posts: 3054

I liked MMOs better when gamers didn't play them, and just geeks did.

1/01/13 8:30:14 AM#58

It is the opposite of a sandbox actually. Here's an example of a sandbox:

 

http://www.wurmonline.com/

MMORPG.com member: 10th Year Anniversary. Where has the time gone...?


Played: AA, AC1, AC2, Aion, AO, AoC, CO, CoX, DAoC, DCUO, DN, EVE, EQ1, EQ2,
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Ryzom, SB, SWG, SWTOR, TERA, TSW, WAR, WoW, WURM...

  ObiClownobi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/02/12
Posts: 189

1/01/13 8:37:17 AM#59
The earth is flat, discuss.


"It's a sandbox, if you are not willing to create a castle then all you have is sand" - jtcgs

  Kyleran

Bitter Vet™

Joined: 9/13/06
Posts: 19509

Fools find no pleasure in understanding, but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV

1/01/13 9:13:11 AM#60

It gets too difficult to try and define a sandbox style MMORPG these days, people sometimes water down the term so much that we have some posters arguing that all MMO's are themeparks, and if you've ever played a more sandbox styled MMORPG you can certainly tell the difference in play style.  (Go try Xyson if you want to see a more extreme example of a sandbox by the way.)

Sure, the lines can be blurry, and you really can't define sandbox style MMO's by the features they may or may not contain, because features (such as quests) can cross the lines for both style of games.

One thing I'm sure of, when I'm in a sandbox style game such as EVE or Xyson, I'm know it and am quite aware of the difference in design approach compared to a more theme park style design such as Aion, a title I recently became reaquainted with over the holiday break.

 

Arrogant, Condescending, Dismissive, Elitist, "Meany", you speak as if these are bad things?
"People can do with their money what they want. But... that doesn't make it smart" - COORS
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

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