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63 posts found
  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11357

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

1/01/13 1:01:20 AM#21
Originally posted by XAPGames

In terms of MMORPGs, no.

It is somewhat similar in nature to free-roaming single player console games that the consolers call sandboxes, but a console sandbox and an MMORPG sandbox are quite different.

Well, looks like he hooked one.

 

XAP, it's his bi-annual troll post. SSDY


http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3227551#3227551
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/3930152#3930152
 

 

 

  Walic

Novice Member

Joined: 7/01/09
Posts: 41

1/01/13 1:04:07 AM#22
Wow this is sad but ok..........Lets see if this will help, take WoW for example what is the goal in WoW? To level right to run quest and to get to end game content.  In a sandbox game there are not any level just skills, there isn't any quest line more like random mission(I would call it).  A sandbox is open to whatever you want to do their is no direction on what you want and have to do.  Where WoW you have a direction you have to follow you can't get to do certain things without going through those levels.  I really can't explain it anymore then that.
  Thebozz

Novice Member

Joined: 1/10/10
Posts: 117

1/01/13 1:05:27 AM#23
It is a good point I mean games with basically nothing but a PvP arena and a skill system that is basically just classes in disguise, is called a sandbox.  What makes WoW less sandbox than that?
  WhiteLantern

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2776

1/01/13 1:07:43 AM#24
Originally posted by Thebozz
It is a good point I mean games with basically nothing but a PvP arena and a skill system that is basically just classes in disguise, is called a sandbox.  What makes WoW less sandbox than that?

If that had been your first post, I'd have thought the OP had taken my advice.

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  Roguewiz

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/01/02
Posts: 454

When a Kender says "oops!"; its already too late.

1/01/13 1:12:35 AM#25
If WoW is Sandbox, then Everquest is truely about Quests.

I be Raq, destroyer of game balance!
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: League of Legends, Dark Souls 2, Elder Scrolls Online
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next (And Landmark)
Trying to beat Dark Souls without using magic is like having a naked hot blond give you a root canal every day; painful and enjoyable at the same time.

  Rayshe

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/30/11
Posts: 1291

1/01/13 1:14:45 AM#26
More and More fish keep biting onto that hook.

Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  WhiteLantern

Novice Member

Joined: 1/27/10
Posts: 2776

1/01/13 1:16:02 AM#27
Originally posted by Roguewiz
If WoW is Sandbox, then Everquest is truely about Quests.

Touche (I can't do the funky ' over the e, but you get the point).

I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil

  User Deleted
1/01/13 1:22:01 AM#28
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by XAPGames

In terms of MMORPGs, no.

It is somewhat similar in nature to free-roaming single player console games that the consolers call sandboxes, but a console sandbox and an MMORPG sandbox are quite different.

Well, looks like he hooked one.

XAP, it's his bi-annual troll post. SSDY

 

Noobs, trolls, spotlight posters... they all look the same to me. :-)

 

  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11357

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

1/01/13 1:24:48 AM#29
Originally posted by XAPGames
Originally posted by Loktofeit
Originally posted by XAPGames

In terms of MMORPGs, no.

It is somewhat similar in nature to free-roaming single player console games that the consolers call sandboxes, but a console sandbox and an MMORPG sandbox are quite different.

Well, looks like he hooked one.

XAP, it's his bi-annual troll post. SSDY

 

Noobs, trolls, spotlight posters... they all look the same to me. :-)

 

LOL!   Cheers!

  Sora2810

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/08
Posts: 566

1/01/13 1:25:50 AM#30
Originally posted by Dauntis
Okay, well maybe the better question is what is a sandbox other than a themepark without questing?

Boiling it down; a sandbox gives the player tools to make their own experience. A themepark uses tools to create an experience for the player.

Any game can do that; but if it wasn't planned, it's not an optimal experience. There are many games that weren't made to roleplay--but people find ways.

Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2

  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4129

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

1/01/13 1:43:22 AM#31
Originally posted by Dauntis
Okay, well maybe the better question is what is a sandbox other than a themepark without questing?

eve has quests.

 

a sandbox isn't a themepark without questing.

 

going to take a cr...going to think about this for a second. champagne makes thinking difficult.

 

alright. i'm back.

 

wow: mage. lvel 10: trainer says 'train fireball". level 20. trainer says "train pyroblast".

 

eve: amarr: I want to be a miner. let's train mining barges. hey I need to kill pirates in belts. let's train destroyers first. these guys drop autocannons, mayb i should train projectile weapons instead of beam lasers. okay, back to mining barges. I'll never afford the mining barge, let's go up to cruisers first. Maybe if i had a MWD i'd have less downtime. These weapnos take too much powergrid, let's upgrade that. what is this? surgical strike? let's go. wait, if i'm a miner, i could also build stuff. maybe work on refining skills? not yet...let's get mining first. wait I might need a hauler, industry won't take long. Oh, fleet wants me in a drake, I trained gallente. let's go caldari frig-> c. wait i cant use the weapons, let's train that....but after i get the mining upgrades.

 

 

  Dantae87

Novice Member

Joined: 12/11/12
Posts: 172

1/01/13 1:50:05 AM#32

the line between sandbox and thempark is very hazy to me. PPL r saying age of wushu is a sandbox but to me its a theampark. What is a sandbox to me? I game like minecraft, salem, darkfall, games that have NO quests and just throw u in a world to do as u please and build things like as if your in a sandbox as a kid, not have layed out quests.

EVE and Age of Wusu are not sandboxes to me and never will be...sandboxes have no quests...

in sandboxes YOU creat what happens. quests that r layed out and tell u what to do are theamparks...am i wrong?

Salem is a sandbox, has no quests.

Minecraft is a sandbox, has no quests.

Darkfall is a sandbox, has next to no quests.

 

WoW has quests and is a themapark.

GW2 has quests n is a theampark.

TSW has quests and is a theampark.

 

so that being said woudnt it makes sense that games with quests r layed out liek a threampark is?

and games that let you do whatever you want without direction are like a kids sandbox?

End of rant.

  Ramanadjinn

Hard Core Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 1125

1/01/13 1:52:29 AM#33
Originally posted by Dantae87

the line between sandbox and thempark is very hazy to me. PPL r saying age of wushu is a sandbox but to me its a theampark. What is a sandbox to me? I game like minecraft, salem, darkfall, games that have NO quests and just throw u in a world to do as u please and build things like as if your in a sandbox as a kid, not have layed out quests.

EVE and Age of Wusu are not sandboxes to me and never will be...sandboxes have no quests...end of my rant :p

 

When I played Darkfall that one day, a fellow gave me a quest to go kill some goblins.

  Dauntis

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/21/09
Posts: 311

 
OP  1/01/13 1:52:29 AM#34
I really just like to spark up this conversation occasionally to see how the definitions have changed. This hardly makes me a troll. I actually want answers and opinions, not trying to grief people.

Disclaimer: I would like to comment on this, but please read my comments in a completely deadpan monotone as some of my past comments have been seen as inflamatory and trollish. Humor is not always welcomed around these parts. So know that the following comment is not meant to contain anything but my opinion with no emotional investment. PLEASE DON'T BAN ME FOR HAVING OPINIONS AND A SENSE OF HUMOR.

  sunshadow21

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/15/04
Posts: 332

1/01/13 1:54:41 AM#35
Originally posted by Dantae87

EVE and Age of Wusu are not sandboxes to me and never will be...sandboxes have no quests...end of my rant :p

The difference is in EVE at least you can completely ignore the missions/quests and still have plenty to do. The key with quests is not eliminating them, but making them one option out of many. EVE does this quite well and this to me is what makes is a true sandbox; there is no one dominant play style that everyone must do in order to "advance" their character. WOW, for all of it's options, still relys almost entirely on quests to advance your character, and thus isn't even remotely a sandbox; it may be a very well developed themepark, but it's still a themepark. Even FFXI, one of the better developed themeparks, is still a themepark; there is essentially one path that everyone follows to gain levels, regardless of the details of what that path has looked like at different times in it's history.

  Dauntis

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/21/09
Posts: 311

 
OP  1/01/13 1:56:57 AM#36
I don't see why people say a "Hybrid" is impossible. What if they made an mmo that had civillized areas that NPC's populate and give quests and such, but also had wide open "unexplored" wild areas that players could use to create their own content, like building player run cities etc.? 

Disclaimer: I would like to comment on this, but please read my comments in a completely deadpan monotone as some of my past comments have been seen as inflamatory and trollish. Humor is not always welcomed around these parts. So know that the following comment is not meant to contain anything but my opinion with no emotional investment. PLEASE DON'T BAN ME FOR HAVING OPINIONS AND A SENSE OF HUMOR.

  Robokapp

Elite Member

Joined: 11/15/09
Posts: 4129

The only luck I had today was to have you as my opponent.

1/01/13 1:57:28 AM#37

when I played Lineage 2, I was surprised to see quest like "go kill these guys, bring these items...I'll pay you per item, he more you bring in bulk the more I pay".

 

it's very similar to a 'go kill 5 boars' except it gives me the freedom to kill 5...10...15...or just 3. and not be meaningless killing.

 

I think that's the sandbox-themepark line. if the meaningful-meaningless is clear-cut by the game, it's a themepark. if it's a "do whatever, the NPCs will react accordingly" then its a sandbox.

 

the NPC didnt tell me how many to kill. He said 'go kill". leaving me decide how many is enough.

 

@Hybrid comment: because it can be balanced. do you make player-made items equal with raid items ? well killing a raid boss might require many weeks for some players, whereas gathering the materials to build it only a few days. Why'd they raid when they can craft.

 

balancing the risk-reward in a ... Themebox ... Sandpark ... would be insanely difficult. it's going to end up being not what players expect. for example one may argue eve has raids (escalations, incursions, static plex'es)...and another may argue they are dynamic events since some scale with number of ships that warp into the room. Then there's wormhole PvE which is quite extreme compared to anything else in New Eden.

 

fact remains this pve content is a small fraction of EVE. Thn wow has some nascent territorial control in TB/WG. where the winning team does influence the entire server in a small fashon.

 

final edit: 2009. eve trial. the tutorial. kept giving me quest after quest...kill this, go there, deliver this,...and about 5 quests into the tutorial I said "Enough of this. I want to mine. leave me alone". so I dropped everything in my jurnal and hit the belts. it's 2013. I'm still mining and building a dreadnaught by myself. its 50% built (the components). Can you do that in wow ? say "enough of this", stop questing, go do what YOU want to do and 4 years later still be there doing it and enjoying it ?

 

and this is mining. what some consider eve's most boring aspect. I don't know, i find it super relaxing. Until a neut enters the system, then it's "quick, to the POS. do I have time to pull the drones? how far is the gate? I'll allign and see. Crap, he's on grid. I got 2 drones in, good enough. warping now. Phew I made it "

  DarkOmega

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/07
Posts: 29

1/01/13 2:05:15 AM#38
First obvious troll thread I've read this year...congrats
  Loktofeit

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 11357

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ESO, and Combat Arms

1/01/13 2:16:07 AM#39
Originally posted by Dauntis
I don't see why people say a "Hybrid" is impossible.

Can you link to where someone said it was impossible?

  zomard100

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/16/11
Posts: 232

1/01/13 2:17:17 AM#40
Well in some points you are right. WOW is more sandbox then most of ''sandbox' games. Auction house=player driven economy, free to go where ever you want, attack people where ever you want, now we get  housing. Me as long time Eve Online player can't see much difference, only what you can't do in wow id looting of players, rest is almost the same
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