Pandas in WoW obviously means huge grind and cash shop.

Obviously.

The setting doesn't appeal to me at all, probably because of having tried one too many Oriental-themed F2P MMOs. I prefer Western mysticism and design although I do recognize the beauty of the Asian culture represented. I even enjoyed the kung-fu panda movie, although I don't know if I would be writing that outside of the annonymity of the Internet....

Originally posted by xKingdomx

Can you imagine people whining about Ogres and High Elves as well?

 

I can.

Those Ogres are ugly as f***, it doesn't even fit the story

Those high elves looks like a bunch of p****, we don't want some female looking males

 

It isn't about unique or not, moral of the story is that whiners will whine no matter what is done.......or what isn't done. You can't win against them, they will just go find new things to b!tch about.

Chronic Complainers

[quote]

• Optimists see: A glass half full.
• Pessimists see: A glass half empty.
• Chronic complainers see: A glass that is slightly chipped holding water that isn't cold enough, probably because its tap water when I asked for bottled water and wait, there's a smudge on the rim too, which means the glass wasn't cleaned properly and now I'll probably end up with some kind of virus-why do these things always happen to me?!

 

Despite how difficult their constant complaints are for those around them, chronic complainers do not usually see themselves as negative people. Rather they perceive themselves as forever being on the losing end of things, as drawing the short straw on a daily basis. Therefore they see the world as being negative and themselves as merely responding appropriately to the annoying, aggravating or unfortunate circumstances of their lives.

[/quote]

 

Its pandas. get over it.

If you are worry about your masculinity by playing with pandas, you got something more worrying to worry about.

And the wrong assumption here is that people think it's always the same who complain.

Have you evidence most of the complainers are chronic complainers? can you prove they always complained?

A company can never avoid complaints, that's for sure, but not because there such a phenomenon as a massive amount of chronic complainers but simply because people want different things and when pleasing one you might disapoint an other.

And i don't think anyone has ever stated they worried about their masculinity by playing with panda's. If anything i think your statement shows a certain amount of insecurity which you try to counter  by pretending it's the other side which is the insecure one.

If you cannot accept the fact that opinions can diverge and that some think panda's are simply TOO ridiculous/silly than too bad.

Originally posted by Zenjinx

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Hm. You make it sound like a mature human being can't appreciate cuteness. Cutesy. Cute'essence. Pick one.

Not sure where you got that. I didn't say it, nor imply it.

You know what: I just read it again, and you're right. Not sure what I was thinking last night, lol.

Originally posted by generals3

Originally posted by xKingdomx 

It isn't about unique or not, moral of the story is that whiners will whine no matter what is done.......or what isn't done. You can't win against them, they will just go find new things to b!tch about.

Chronic Complainers 

Its pandas. get over it.

If you are worry about your masculinity by playing with pandas, you got something more worrying to worry about.

And the wrong assumption here is that people think it's always the same who complain.

Have you evidence most of the complainers are chronic complainers? can you prove they always complained?

A company can never avoid complaints, that's for sure, but not because there such a phenomenon as a massive amount of chronic complainers but simply because people want different things and when pleasing one you might disapoint an other.

And i don't think anyone has ever stated they worried about their masculinity by playing with panda's. If anything i think your statement shows a certain amount of insecurity which you try to counter  by pretending it's the other side which is the insecure one.

If you cannot accept the fact that opinions can diverge and that some think panda's are simply TOO ridiculous/silly than too bad.

Well currently there are 3 threads on this forum complaining about pandas, I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find one duplicate poster complaining on these threads. I personally don't like going through people's post history to find proof of my own argument, its like invasion of privacy.

Plus I never said most people here are chronic complainers, I'm simply stating some complains here are complaining for the sake of complaining. even if the proposed race wasn't pandas, they will simply be complaining that it is something else, like the example I've provided in my previous post.

[quote]

Can you imagine people whining about Ogres and High Elves as well?

I can.

Those Ogres are ugly as f***, it doesn't even fit the story

Those high elves looks like a bunch of p****, we don't want some female looking males

[/quote]

Some, not most. I'm not going to provide proof that anyone specific here is chronic complainer, so you can either say I'm wrong or just go with it. But to believe that there are no chronic complainers among us is the same as believing there are no trolls on this forum, highly improbable.

And I dunno why people likes to try turning arguments against the poster who said it. Yea some people are complaining in this thread about panda being too childish, too cute, too asian, thus implying they are demeaning their own status to play with a childish or cute concept or race, therefore meaing they are insecure that they wil be viewed as a child or a girl to play with such feminine ideal 

If I'm unsecure about playing with pandas, I wouldn't have stated the whole insecure issue in the first place. I didn't use that argument to counter anything, I was stating it. You might as well say I'm actually here to complain about pandas as well because 'you think my statement shows a certain amount of distaste which you try to counter by pretending it's the other side which is the distastful one'

EDIT: I read my post again, and it seems like I worded as if I was directing the masculinity argument to you, which I wasn't, I was talking about the ones who constantly complain about races being too cute and too childish for their manly taste.

As I said, I was stating that argument, and funny you are actually the one countering it. So by your logic, are you the insecure one? I doubt it, you seem to have enough logic behind the arguments to be insecure about something as stupid as pandas. Some people could truly be upset about pandas being a race and wanting maybe something else instead, but I'm here talking about people who wouldn't be satisify even if the race was panda in discussion.

Again, I'm not here to point fingers at anyone, I just stating some people should just stop complaining about things so much, these people make games for a living, unless you are a developer yourself, stop thinking you are smart than those guys. Those guys do research into markets and and design games on a daily basis, sure they need feedback into what they do, but not 2 million people trying to tell them how to do their job.

Originally posted by xKingdomx

Well currently there are 3 threads on this forum complaining about pandas, I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find one duplicate poster complaining on these threads. I personally don't like going through people's post history to find proof of my own argument, its like invasion of privacy.

Plus I never said most people here are chronic complainers, I'm simply stating some complains here are complaining for the sake of complaining. even if the proposed race wasn't pandas, they will simply be complaining that it is something else, like the example I've provided in my previous post.

[quote]

 

Can you imagine people whining about Ogres and High Elves as well?

I can.

Those Ogres are ugly as f***, it doesn't even fit the story

Those high elves looks like a bunch of p****, we don't want some female looking males

[/quote]

Some, not most. I'm not going to provide proof that anyone specific here is chronic complainer, so you can either say I'm wrong or just go with it. But to believe that there are no chronic complainers among us is the same as believing there are no trolls on this forum, highly improbable.

Fair enough. But you see on the internet whenever you complain about something you get branded as a whiner. Doesn't matter if you ever complained before or not , because many don't check other's posting history anyway yet go around branding people as whiners. Now i'm not saying that you do that but that's how it works on the net. And combined  with "It isn't about unique or not, moral of the story is that whiners will whine no matter what is done.......or what isn't done. You can't win against them, they will just go find new things to b!tch about." gave me a wrong idea of what you actually meant.

So yeah i was kind of uncertain who this was aimed at so i assumed you were refering to those who complain about panda's.

And I dunno why people likes to try turning arguments against the poster who said it. Yea some people are complaining in this thread about panda being too childish, too cute, too asian, thus implying they are demeaning their own status to play with a childish or cute concept or race, therefore meaing they are insecure that they wil be viewed as a child or a girl to play with such feminine ideal 

If I'm unsecure about playing with pandas, I wouldn't have stated the whole insecure issue in the first place. I didn't use that argument to counter anything, I was stating it. You might as well say I'm actually here to complain about pandas as well because 'you think my statement shows a certain amount of distaste which you try to counter by pretending it's the other side which is the distastful one'

EDIT: I read my post again, and it seems like I worded as if I was directing the maclinity argument to you, which I wasn't, I was talking about the ones who constantly complain about races being too cute and too childish for their manly taste.

Well i actually didn't interpret it as being aimed at me. But don't you think it's a huge stretch to go from "thinking something is too childish/cute/blabla" to "being insecure about your manliness or whatever" ?

I mean i don't watch my little pony because i think it's made for little girls and obviously not my taste. Does that mean i'm insecure? It's not because someone thinks something is too cute or whatever he's somehow insecure about something. It's a matter of taste, period. If they don't like it they don't like it. Could some be insecure? perhaps , but let's not pretend either you or me can know that.

An other reason i turned that argument against you is because i'm sick of people pulling the "insecure" card in all sorts of issues. Whether it be about a game or in rl.

As I said, I was stating that argument, and funny you are actually the one countering it. So by your logic, are you the insecure one? I doubt it, you seem to have enough logic behind the arguments to be insecure about something as stupid as pandas. Some people could truly be upset about pandas being a race and wanting maybe something else instead, but I'm here talking about people who wouldn't be satisify even if the race was panda in discussion.

Again, I'm not here to point fingers at anyone, I just stating some people should just stop complaining about things so much, these people make games for a living, unless you are a developer yourself, stop thinking you are smart than those guys. Those guys do research into markets and and design games on a daily basis, sure they need feedback into what they do, but not 2 million people trying to tell them how to do their job.

 

well, that's no need to blah blah blah on the coming expansion, anyway, it's just a game, if you dont like it, just quit, but you dont have to ruin it for everyone

Originally posted by generals3

Originally posted by xKingdomx

 

Some, not most. I'm not going to provide proof that anyone specific here is chronic complainer, so you can either say I'm wrong or just go with it. But to believe that there are no chronic complainers among us is the same as believing there are no trolls on this forum, highly improbable.

Fair enough. But you see on the internet whenever you complain about something you get branded as a whiner. Doesn't matter if you ever complained before or not , because many don't check other's posting history anyway yet go around branding people as whiners. Now i'm not saying that you do that but that's how it works on the net. And combined  with "It isn't about unique or not, moral of the story is that whiners will whine no matter what is done.......or what isn't done. You can't win against them, they will just go find new things to b!tch about." gave me a wrong idea of what you actually meant.

So yeah i was kind of uncertain who this was aimed at so i assumed you were refering to those who complain about panda's.

I find it silly that people can complain about pandas for 90 post, and 3 threads. And this is only on this forum.

EDIT: I read my post again, and it seems like I worded as if I was directing the maclinity argument to you, which I wasn't, I was talking about the ones who constantly complain about races being too cute and too childish for their manly taste.

Well i actually didn't interpret it as being aimed at me. But don't you think it's a huge stretch to go from "thinking something is too childish/cute/blabla" to "being insecure about your manliness or whatever" ?

I mean i don't watch my little pony because i think it's made for little girls and obviously not my taste. Does that mean i'm insecure? It's not because someone thinks something is too cute or whatever he's somehow insecure about something. It's a matter of taste, period. If they don't like it they don't like it. Could some be insecure? perhaps , but let's not pretend either you or me can know that.

An other reason i turned that argument against you is because i'm sick of people pulling the "insecure" card in all sorts of issues. Whether it be about a game or in rl.

Well I'm not talking about if you have to like it or not, you can hate pandas all you want, but you don't need to tell me, hin, her or them. I find it annoying when people need to constantly restate how they are not going to play with something that are childish or cute, and complains about it to no end. If anyone reads this thread, no one gains anything, just a bunch of people grouped together to complain about pandas, no solution was reached, no alternatives was suggested.

Pandas or not, criticism is moot if you can't provide a probable solution. No one made suggestion to a race that is better fitted than pandas. Panda is a race, it doesn't mean you have to play them. Just like in real life, there are pandas, but that doesn't mean you have to own them.

Don't you think there are just too much commotion over something as silly as pandas.

 

Originally posted by yjanyany

well, that's no need to blah blah blah on the coming expansion, anyway, it's just a game, if you dont like it, just quit, but you dont have to ruin it for everyone

Lol, you don't think players for 7 years don't have the right to be upset and dicuss changes in their favorite game?

Sure, it do comes down to quit or play anyways in the long run, but people still have the right to vent a little (without trolling though).

And we do discuss MMOs in the forum, a certain games direction is part of that and rather interesting. Some people think Blizz is making a mistake here, others love it and the point of a forum is discussing stuff like that.

Rift is boring me, Aion died out a long time ago in my eyes despite my numerous attempts to come back and so WoW has always been the come back to MMO for me. And it always happens around the next xpac. For good or bad its something different. It'll kill time for a while until something else comes out or something else improves.

MMO Champion had a poll in 2009 about if people wanted Pandaren as a playable race.

55% said yes. 45% no.

The MoP trailer on blizzard's youtube channel has 50% dislikes. 50% likes. By the way that's about 45% more dislikes than any other expansion trailer has.

Pretty close to the same percentage who like/dislike the idea in 2009 and now.

It's a little early to tell by looking at the graphs on warcraftrealms.com regarding alliance vs horde playtime since the announcement of MoP, it kinda looks like alliance dislikes the idea more than the horde does. If that hold true, it kinda makes sense since some horde have choosen to play non huminoid races and the alliance hasn't.

And finally...if 50%, or 45% of Blizzards customers don't like something, maybe the problem isn't the customers.

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Originally posted by Zenjinx

Originally posted by BizkitNL

Hm. You make it sound like a mature human being can't appreciate cuteness. Cutesy. Cute'essence. Pick one.

Not sure where you got that. I didn't say it, nor imply it.

You know what: I just read it again, and you're right. Not sure what I was thinking last night, lol.

Thank you sir. No harm no foul. Tis' all good =)

Originally posted by GameOvr

MMO Champion had a poll in 2009 about if people wanted Pandaren as a playable race.

55% said yes. 45% no.

 

The MoP trailer on blizzard's youtube channel has 50% dislikes. 50% likes. By the way that's about 45% more dislikes than any other expansion trailer has.

Pretty close to the same percentage who like/dislike the idea in 2009 and now.

It's a little early to tell by looking at the graphs on warcraftrealms.com regarding alliance vs horde playtime since the announcement of MoP, it kinda looks like alliance dislikes the idea more than the horde does. If that hold true, it kinda makes sense since some horde have choosen to play non huminoid races and the alliance hasn't.

 

And finally...if 50%, or 45% of Blizzards customers don't like something, maybe the problem isn't the customers.

 

 

Most of the hate i am seeing isn't from the people who would be offended most, the RPers and the Lorewhores. It is more the kids who are still attached to mama's teet.

There is also the ENORMOUS and rather sickening group of players who are relating pandaren to china and IMMEDIATELY hate it. Seriously never knew that the community was so prejudice against china. Read some of those youtube comments, they're ridiculous and alot of the anger/dislike is stimming from racism.

Not saying people don't have legitimate phobia's to the panda or chinese but this game has had a panda since vanilla and some chinese in it since beta.. little late to get your panties in a ruffle now don't ya think?

Originally posted by xKingdomx

Originally posted by generals3

Originally posted by xKingdomx

 

Some, not most. I'm not going to provide proof that anyone specific here is chronic complainer, so you can either say I'm wrong or just go with it. But to believe that there are no chronic complainers among us is the same as believing there are no trolls on this forum, highly improbable.

Fair enough. But you see on the internet whenever you complain about something you get branded as a whiner. Doesn't matter if you ever complained before or not , because many don't check other's posting history anyway yet go around branding people as whiners. Now i'm not saying that you do that but that's how it works on the net. And combined  with "It isn't about unique or not, moral of the story is that whiners will whine no matter what is done.......or what isn't done. You can't win against them, they will just go find new things to b!tch about." gave me a wrong idea of what you actually meant.

So yeah i was kind of uncertain who this was aimed at so i assumed you were refering to those who complain about panda's.

I find it silly that people can complain about pandas for 90 post, and 3 threads. And this is only on this forum.

I can come to an agreement with that. I stated my dislike of the expansion in the beginning and now merely skim this section to see if there is actually something new about it that could redeem MoP (halas...)

EDIT: I read my post again, and it seems like I worded as if I was directing the maclinity argument to you, which I wasn't, I was talking about the ones who constantly complain about races being too cute and too childish for their manly taste.

Well i actually didn't interpret it as being aimed at me. But don't you think it's a huge stretch to go from "thinking something is too childish/cute/blabla" to "being insecure about your manliness or whatever" ?

I mean i don't watch my little pony because i think it's made for little girls and obviously not my taste. Does that mean i'm insecure? It's not because someone thinks something is too cute or whatever he's somehow insecure about something. It's a matter of taste, period. If they don't like it they don't like it. Could some be insecure? perhaps , but let's not pretend either you or me can know that.

An other reason i turned that argument against you is because i'm sick of people pulling the "insecure" card in all sorts of issues. Whether it be about a game or in rl.

Well I'm not talking about if you have to like it or not, you can hate pandas all you want, but you don't need to tell me, hin, her or them. I find it annoying when people need to constantly restate how they are not going to play with something that are childish or cute, and complains about it to no end. If anyone reads this thread, no one gains anything, just a bunch of people grouped together to complain about pandas, no solution was reached, no alternatives was suggested.

Pandas or not, criticism is moot if you can't provide a probable solution. No one made suggestion to a race that is better fitted than pandas. Panda is a race, it doesn't mean you have to play them. Just like in real life, there are pandas, but that doesn't mean you have to own them.

Don't you think there are just too much commotion over something as silly as pandas.

Well it depends. The problem is that the panda's will be a playable race and on both factions at that, this means people will see em all the time, everywhere. So while it may appear silly it can ruin someone's immersion or feeling about the game due to the mere extend with which the panda's will appear in the game.

And when it comes to alternatives, mine is simple, nothing. Don't add any new race, it ain't needed. Improve the crafting system, add more epic quests , etc. So many things you could do with the wasted dev time on the panda's. (off course it's a bit too late for that now).

 

 

Originally posted by Aori

...

Most of the hate i am seeing isn't from the people who would be offended most, the RPers and the Lorewhores. It is more the kids who are still attached to mama's teet.

There is also the ENORMOUS and rather sickening group of players who are relating pandaren to china and IMMEDIATELY hate it. Seriously never knew that the community was so prejudice against china. Read some of those youtube comments, they're ridiculous and alot of the anger/dislike is stimming from racism.

Not saying people don't have legitimate phobia's to the panda or chinese but this game has had a panda since vanilla and some chinese in it since beta.. little late to get your panties in a ruffle now don't ya think?

 

You don't need the Pandas to relate the expansion to China, you can do that with everything else graphical or audio related in the expansion.

It's really just one theme, and it's not pandas.

Now you have a crystal ball I guess and can tell that people dislike because it's about china vs it's about nothing else but china?

Originally posted by Aori

Most of the hate i am seeing isn't from the people who would be offended most, the RPers and the Lorewhores. It is more the kids who are still attached to mama's teet.

There is also the ENORMOUS and rather sickening group of players who are relating pandaren to china and IMMEDIATELY hate it. Seriously never knew that the community was so prejudice against china. Read some of those youtube comments, they're ridiculous and alot of the anger/dislike is stimming from racism.

Not saying people don't have legitimate phobia's to the panda or chinese but this game has had a panda since vanilla and some chinese in it since beta.. little late to get your panties in a ruffle now don't ya think?

 

While i must agree the whole "omg it's a chinese themed expansion" argument doesn't really speak to me (i couldn't care less). I would like to add that for me it's about immersion and yes i played on a RP server (after moving away from a PVP server with severe population imbalance) . 

They are pandering to the Chinese market [sorry I simply had to]. Someone pointed out though that killing pandas may not go well and player killing would mean one panda killing another or another race killing them.

Originally posted by generals3

Originally posted by Aori

Most of the hate i am seeing isn't from the people who would be offended most, the RPers and the Lorewhores. It is more the kids who are still attached to mama's teet.

There is also the ENORMOUS and rather sickening group of players who are relating pandaren to china and IMMEDIATELY hate it. Seriously never knew that the community was so prejudice against china. Read some of those youtube comments, they're ridiculous and alot of the anger/dislike is stimming from racism.

Not saying people don't have legitimate phobia's to the panda or chinese but this game has had a panda since vanilla and some chinese in it since beta.. little late to get your panties in a ruffle now don't ya think?

 

While i must agree the whole "omg it's a chinese themed expansion" argument doesn't really speak to me (i couldn't care less). I would like to add that for me it's about immersion and yes i played on a RP server (after moving away from a PVP server with severe population imbalance) . 

Not sure how immersion is lost for ya.. i mean WoW is full of cheap parodies and already unrealistic races. However i can understand that stance even if i don't get it.

I think a lot of the hatred for things Chinese stem from the fact that manufacturing is going to China. The ordinary guy in America is seeing them as a threat and this WoW shift is making them come out of the woodwork with their prejudices. I think America really has to do something about this imbalance in trade where you buy so much from China before your population really rebels.

Originally posted by Aori

Originally posted by generals3

Originally posted by Aori

Most of the hate i am seeing isn't from the people who would be offended most, the RPers and the Lorewhores. It is more the kids who are still attached to mama's teet.

There is also the ENORMOUS and rather sickening group of players who are relating pandaren to china and IMMEDIATELY hate it. Seriously never knew that the community was so prejudice against china. Read some of those youtube comments, they're ridiculous and alot of the anger/dislike is stimming from racism.

Not saying people don't have legitimate phobia's to the panda or chinese but this game has had a panda since vanilla and some chinese in it since beta.. little late to get your panties in a ruffle now don't ya think?

 

While i must agree the whole "omg it's a chinese themed expansion" argument doesn't really speak to me (i couldn't care less). I would like to add that for me it's about immersion and yes i played on a RP server (after moving away from a PVP server with severe population imbalance) . 

Not sure how immersion is lost for ya.. i mean WoW is full of cheap parodies and already unrealistic races. However i can understand that stance even if i don't get it.

Well it's hard to explain i guess. But yeah there were lots of comical relief moments and such but usually these were moments (even the most avid RP'ers don't rp 24/7 :p) . But the thing is i don't know but in my opinion the pandaren just don't fit at all and them being a playable race is just the final nail in the coffin.

What can i say immersion is one of those extremely subjective/biased things that are very fragile.

Originally posted by GameOvr

Originally posted by Aori

...

Most of the hate i am seeing isn't from the people who would be offended most, the RPers and the Lorewhores. It is more the kids who are still attached to mama's teet.

There is also the ENORMOUS and rather sickening group of players who are relating pandaren to china and IMMEDIATELY hate it. Seriously never knew that the community was so prejudice against china. Read some of those youtube comments, they're ridiculous and alot of the anger/dislike is stimming from racism.

Not saying people don't have legitimate phobia's to the panda or chinese but this game has had a panda since vanilla and some chinese in it since beta.. little late to get your panties in a ruffle now don't ya think?

 

You don't need the Pandas to relate the expansion to China, you can do that with everything else graphical or audio related in the expansion.

 

It's really just one theme, and it's not pandas.

 

Now you have a crystal ball I guess and can tell that people dislike because it's about china vs it's about nothing else but china?

WoW has a massive amount of cultural influence in it already, it has a dismal amount of asian influence. I don't see the issue, people had better complaints when BC released with the draenei. Though if WoW survived the whole 'space goat' thing then i think it'll be ok here.

I don't accept expansion = chinese and i hate chinese as a legitimate complaint. I didn't see anywhere in the announcement that it said Mists of China.