Originally posted by TUX426

Originally posted by Zenjinx

I never stated that Bioware is going "just" for Star Wars fans.

Uh...yeah, you did.

Originally posted by Zenjinx

Bioware are going for "Star Wars" fans. If that includes WoW players, all the better. They weren't looking for "mature" ( very loose term for all you panda dislikers) disgruntled emotionally (panda) damaged individuals..

In fact, that statement by you was in the quote of yours I had replied to that you just replied to.

And I don't need "sources" to tell you pandas are goofy as shit - they are - that's a fact. Sure, "someone" (besides yourself) is probably giddy over them, and that's great dude - I hope you love it  - but, as I have stated over and over, it draws nobody back, keeps no player playing and attracts ZERO new players...they're f'n pandas.

 

You proved yourself wrong by quoting me. Look at my quote. Do you see the word "just" in that sentence? You can interpret english differently than dictionary definitions if you like, but do not put words into my mouth. I guess I could have qualified it with "in general", but usually,  a statement like that is implied, and does not need to be spelled out. Understand?

You can state all the laughable "facts" you wish. I am not stopping you from exposing your ignorance. To sum up everything you said, it is pure OPINION. Never ever a fact, no matter how hard you try to convince anyone.

As for sources. If you can prove without a doubt, that pandas have no place in fantasy, I would greatly appreciate the knowledge. Please indulge my curiosity, because I would love to see how you can validate your opinion as "fact".

Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

horse deerman +elephant horse man=centaurs
oxman+ cowman-minotaurs
wolfman-bearman and ratman = all found in various shapes of were-people(ratmen quite rare but they do exist in folk-lore)
space goat = similarities to the god pan from celtic myth
bird thing - harpies
fishman -mere people ( very similar to the original concept )
walrus man - a bit out of place too but also not being proposed as a playable race.the closest thing I can think of is the character in the Alice books . So some very loose references to something similar in western literature at least .

Panda man = kung fu Panda .(especially givent he mix of Panda and Monk martial arts)

So essentially pretty much everything else on your playable list could be quite acceptable as a playable race .I think you shot yourself in the foot with this one a bit .

nb were people are always carnivores/preditors in western folklore so even though pandas are a bear they would not fit into this catagory given they are herbivores .

Its a good try but its very difficult to effectivly defend the undefendable .

 

Actually, I find it demonstrates the point quite effectively. It challenges the notion that pandas are sillier than anything else in the game. They are not of course. This is easily demonstrated by the low age requirement on the box, as well as the current content in the game.

Of course a number of people can't seem to find any other reference to pandas in the history of the world, so it seems out of place. Perhaps they are too "real", and not fantasy enough. Either way, opinions don't matter. It is up to the artist to decide whether or not any given creature is included in their verion of fantasy.

Fantasy is not as rigid as the anti panda crowd contend.

Originally posted by Hoplites

Blizzard made a massive miscalculation by not understanding social circumstances.

As an adult male, it doesn't make me immature to play a Panda in a fantasy game for fun.  I am still an adult and I have already defined who I am in my life so I am not insecure.  But for 10-12 year olds, who are growing up they do NOT want to be associated with a kiddy Panda because they are trying to carve out who they are to themselves and circle of friends.  

Being part of trends with acitivites, clothing, etc defines who these 10-12 year olds are,  not individiual selves until they learn the truth.  Thus, if Panda's are not perceived cool, they will reject it outright due to peer pressure. 

Wait a second... are you suggesting that by releasing an expansion centered around Pandas they will "accidently" alienate the most obnoxious, narcissitic, self-serving, epeen keep up with jones type, exclusionary based Lord of the flies hiearchy loving elements of thier community? 

 

That is eff'ing Brilliant! If thats true they just pulled the mother of all Legendary marketing moves in the history of MMOs. 

 

So Blizzard releases an expansion about Pandas and suddenly Trade chat becomes tolerable. Now thats thinking out of the box.

 

 

Originally posted by Zenjinx

Originally posted by OkhamsRazor

horse deerman +elephant horse man=centaurs
oxman+ cowman-minotaurs
wolfman-bearman and ratman = all found in various shapes of were-people(ratmen quite rare but they do exist in folk-lore)
space goat = similarities to the god pan from celtic myth
bird thing - harpies
fishman -mere people ( very similar to the original concept )
walrus man - a bit out of place too but also not being proposed as a playable race.the closest thing I can think of is the character in the Alice books . So some very loose references to something similar in western literature at least .

Panda man = kung fu Panda .(especially givent he mix of Panda and Monk martial arts)

So essentially pretty much everything else on your playable list could be quite acceptable as a playable race .I think you shot yourself in the foot with this one a bit .

nb were people are always carnivores/preditors in western folklore so even though pandas are a bear they would not fit into this catagory given they are herbivores .

Its a good try but its very difficult to effectivly defend the undefendable .

 

Actually, I find it demonstrates the point quite effectively. It challenges the notion that pandas are sillier than anything else in the game. They are not of course. This is easily demonstrated by the low age requirement on the box, as well as the current content in the game.

Of course a number of people can't seem to find any other reference to pandas in the history of the world, so it seems out of place. Perhaps they are too "real", and not fantasy enough. Either way, opinions don't matter. It is up to the artist to decide whether or not any given creature is included in their verion of fantasy.

Fantasy is not as rigid as the anti panda crowd contend.

I would agree there to some extent . Look at some of the things we had in the Chronicles of Narnia but remember C.S.Lewis wrote that with children in mind . Although I'm sure plenty of adults find it a great read too .

But does this mean you could throw anything into WoW and it would be broadly acceptable to most people ? I think the answer there is a no for many people and  Kung Fu Pandas and Pokemon inspired content is "scrapping the bottom of the barrel" as one of my friends recently said .

If StarWars TOR produces an expansion based around playable Ewoks I would feel the same as I do about MOP . Not because it would show me the directions the developers intended to take the game .

I hated Ewoks in Return of the Jedi . They are to StarWars what Pandas are to WoW .

Originally posted by vesuvias

Originally posted by Hoplites

Blizzard made a massive miscalculation by not understanding social circumstances.

As an adult male, it doesn't make me immature to play a Panda in a fantasy game for fun.  I am still an adult and I have already defined who I am in my life so I am not insecure.  But for 10-12 year olds, who are growing up they do NOT want to be associated with a kiddy Panda because they are trying to carve out who they are to themselves and circle of friends.  

Being part of trends with acitivites, clothing, etc defines who these 10-12 year olds are,  not individiual selves until they learn the truth.  Thus, if Panda's are not perceived cool, they will reject it outright due to peer pressure. 

Wait a second... are you suggesting that by releasing an expansion centered around Pandas they will "accidently" alienate the most obnoxious, narcissitic, self-serving, epeen keep up with jones type, exclusionary based Lord of the flies hiearchy loving elements of thier community? 

 

That is eff'ing Brilliant! If thats true they just pulled the mother of all Legendary marketing moves in the history of MMOs. 

 

So Blizzard releases an expansion about Pandas and suddenly Trade chat becomes tolerable. Now thats thinking out of the box.

 

 

I would agree with him but more broadly based than 10-12 age range he suggests . But I would also agree with you too WoW would be a lot better community without them . But the problem is Blizzard have tailored the game more and more for children so when they go what will they do then ? Maybe change the direction fo the game so older players have the kind of challenges they like in a game . Its all going to be a bit of a mess for a while but WoW may be a fitter , leaner but less popular game at then end of the day when the dust settles .

 

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Anyone still playing wow needs their head checked. how can you play the same game for so long without thinking to yourself "i've done this before".

Like how I felt when I got into SW:ToR beta.

Same here.  Still debating on canceling my pre-order because of it.   not that i'm the biggest Star Wars fan anyways, was just hoping for something lil different, blah.

Originally posted by Scalebane

Originally posted by Teala

Originally posted by nerovipus32

Anyone still playing wow needs their head checked. how can you play the same game for so long without thinking to yourself "i've done this before".

Like how I felt when I got into SW:ToR beta.

Same here.  Still debating on canceling my pre-order because of it.   not that i'm the biggest Star Wars fan anyways, was just hoping for something lil different, blah.

To be fair you do get something a little different .WoW doesn't have the personal storys ,virtual sports battles and space travel that StarWars has . What I think you mean is you want something a lot different . Well if your at that point then it really just be time to either try something totaly different like EVE because fantasy mmos are going to all have the standard questing,battle arenas , instanced bosses etc for many many years to come . Its just part of the genre . Something may come along eventually and be totally revolutionary but that could take another decade or more . I'm guessing if your that fed up you wont want to play WoW either though . The main reason I wont be playing WoW anymore is because its far to easy now and MOP confirmed everything I feared about the direction the game was going  . Had Blizzard come up with a decent expansion I probably would have tried both it and TOR but I am so underwealmed by whats on offer for the first time in 7 years I can truly say I have no interest at all what so ever in  a Blizzard product .

 

I'm taking a step back and looking at it this way:

 

Blizzard announce mist of Panderia

People scream 'Holy panda! kids game, bah. kung fu panda. I ragequit waaah I'm addicted I can't quit.'

Blizzard announce 12 month pass with incentives. Free mount and... free game: Diablo 3..

Diablo 3 is a 15 certificate with lots of demons and baddies rivalling the horror of the Lich King, if not more.

If people play WoW despite the kung fu pandas they can get their adult game fix from diablo 3 and...

Blizzard make a crap load of money from WoW annual pass and Diablo 3 RMT AH transactions. 

Kaching.

Originally posted by nyxium

I'm taking a step back and looking at it this way:

 

Blizzard announce mist of Panderia

People scream 'Holy panda! kids game, bah. kung fu panda. I ragequit waaah I'm addicted I can't quit.'

Blizzard announce 12 month pass with incentives. Free mount and... free game: Diablo 3..

Diablo 3 is a 15 certificate with lots of demons and baddies rivalling the horror of the Lich King, if not more.

If people play WoW despite the kung fu pandas they can get their adult game fix from diablo 3 and...

Blizzard make a crap load of money from WoW annual pass and Diablo 3 RMT AH transactions. 

Kaching.

I was actually thinking the same, that one of Blizzard's best moves would be to introduce some Battlenet package, that offers benefits and services for several of their games including WoW.

 

Question however is if Blizzard will do such thing, and also if it'll have that much of an effect in the end.

I've seen some questionable decisions that Blizzard made the past year or two that made me wonder how much feeling they still have with the gaming market. It didn't resemble the Blizzard that I knew of years ago. But we'll see.

 

Meh, Blizzard will be fine. They'll have their die hard fan base no matter what, and as much as I like Star Wars, I feel like the Old Republic is overhyped and overrated.

Originally posted by ThaneUlfgar

Meh, Blizzard will be fine. They'll have their die hard fan base no matter what, and as much as I like Star Wars, I feel like the Old Republic is overhyped and overrated.

Do you know I remember similar posts to this in 2004 just before Warcraft was released . Warcraft will of course continue to survive I have no doubt of that at all but Star Wars TOR couldn't have been released at a better time and all it need to do is be fun and playable for it to a great success . In no way do I think Star Wars will beat Blizzards 12 millions subscribers overnight (or if ever ) because you have to remember WoW built that base over years and within its for 6-9 months of release it had between 3-4 million subscribers . I think TOR has every chance to break that recored . The thing was Blizzard had to come up with a strong expansion and outside of the fanboy crowd which is always going to be very vocal in these forums huge numbers of people are shocked at how weak the concept behind MOP is . I guess at the end of the day when it comes to both TOR and MOP it will be down to the actual content . Everything at present points to TOR being a huge success .(it has broken pre-order records for any other mmo including Warcraft) where as MOP is controversial to say the least . But anything could happen TOR may be released and be a disaster which does appear very unlikly . More than anything MOP will make up the minds of many ex and current WoW players as to the direction Blizzard intends to take the game .

Its not the rage quitters they have to worry about . Its the people that have kept playing in the hope things would improve only to have those hopes dashed just at a time when some major compeition to Warcraft is released .

 

Originally posted by Axxar

Loads of players have wanted Pandarens to be playable since vanilla. I suspect this will be a positive thing for the game overall.

yeah, as usual it is mostly people who don´t play wow that ´hate´ the panda race.  Adding the monk class and the pve scenerios will be cool.

A drop of 800,000 more subs in this quarter on top of the loses earlier this year . This is before The Old Republic is released . Pretty easy to see which way things are going for WoW . TOR  of course will need to deliver the goods but if it does WoW is in for a serious decline now I think .

I have been playing on and off (mostly on) since 6 months after vanilla wow released.

 

I don't wanna play a panda. I think the movie series "Kung Fu Panda" w/ jack black taints even the idea of the "Mists of Panderia"

At least with Cataclysm I felt an enemy to fight, a cause persay. I don't feel that here.

I am dissappointed to say the least and prolly, even though I own the collector editions to every expansion including vanilla, will not buy this one.

Originally posted by Dwarfman420

I have been playing on and off (mostly on) since 6 months after vanilla wow released.

 

I don't wanna play a panda. I think the movie series "Kung Fu Panda" w/ jack black taints even the idea of the "Mists of Panderia"

At least with Cataclysm I felt an enemy to fight, a cause persay. I don't feel that here.

I am dissappointed to say the least and prolly, even though I own the collector editions to every expansion including vanilla, will not buy this one.

 You not alone . I know a lot of people that have played and still play WoW I don't know anyone thats excited about this expansion . Some have or are quitting over it and if they are planning on staying mostly they are indifferent to it . I've heard variations on "it may not be as bad as it sounds" . Not a ringing endorsement for MOP really .

Peeps already starting to leave my guild - simply over the announcement of pandas. Bliz/Act stock dropping. 14.2% drop in subscriptions (12M to 10.3M). SWTOR around the corner. Desperate give-away of D3 to stop subscriber bleeding. Rumors of layoffs. Greg Street still leading WoW design.

Yup, everything is perfect and beautiful with WoW and Blizzard. Nothing to see here, move along.

I've been playing off and on for awhile in Cata, i play on 4 different servers, 2 pve, 1 rp and 1 pvp. The guilds i'm associated with have been showing more player returns than leavers.. 4.3 is exciting some people. I've not seen much hate against 5.0 and MoP amongst my guilds and friends.

IMO i think NA is still going quite strong, the majority of the servers are maintaining their medium/high pops while the full servers haven't changed.

Originally posted by Aori

I've been playing off and on for awhile in Cata, i play on 4 different servers, 2 pve, 1 rp and 1 pvp. The guilds i'm associated with have been showing more player returns than leavers.. 4.3 is exciting some people. I've not seen much hate against 5.0 and MoP amongst my guilds and friends.

IMO i think NA is still going quite strong, the majority of the servers are maintaining their medium/high pops while the full servers haven't changed.

The drops in numbers probably wont be that visable for a while to come to the person playing . Much of the game is instanced now and city centric . WoW has only last around 8-9 percent of its playerbase in the last six months . I don't know how many more have gone over MOP though . You may simply be lucky and be in a guild that have known each other a long time and probably will decide as a guild when its time to quit and try another mmo . Its not the story I'm hearing from my old guild that are still active in WoW .  A few left for Rift earlier this year and most are planning on trying StarWars . I'll admit I could be wrong and maybe Blizzard will pull this off but I very much doubt it the MOP expansion is too close to Kung Fu Panda which many people percieve as a kid film . Its when the rot sets in amongst school age children you'll see a huge drop . Are Pandas awsome to the average 12-18 year old ? I asked my nephew what he thought of it all . His answer was it seams a bit gay . Typical responce to something a 15 year old doesn't like I guess and not something I would condone but if there a millions of players of a similar age group that suddenly decide WoW isn't cool anymore then thats when your going to have problems .

well, i think bliz design the kung fu panda expansion so that they could win sharing in Chinese mmo market, i m just wondering what's China's reaction to Pandaria which is something of a national symbol to that country, (just something i heard, and hearsay is horrible)

Originally posted by yjanyany

well, i think bliz design the kung fu panda expansion so that they could win sharing in Chinese mmo market, i m just wondering what's China's reaction to Pandaria which is something of a national symbol to that country, (just something i heard, and hearsay is horrible)

Yeah I think your right the Panda is the something like that in China . In the UK its a Lion but I don't many of us would want to play one in a game .