Nah, I have to disagree with most of your points, OP.

WoW "decline," if it is in decline, is just a result of the game getting easier, either by Blizzard's design or by players getting increasingly better at the game. The only challenges in the game are in raids and PvP (though raids are not as challenging as they used to be), and that becomes very repetitious. I like to raid sometimes, but it would be nice if there were other fun things (read: challenging and rewarding things) to do, too. There's nothing heroic about "Heroic" instances anymore. I remember some of the BC heroics were at least a little bit challenging, like Shattered Halls and Shadow Labyrinth. Granted, Heroic Oculus can be challenging, but that's mainly because some people don't understand the mechanics of fighting on the dragons, so you often end up with a bad group if you pug it. Heroic ToC was a good addition, but it takes more than one instance to keep people occupied. All of the rest of the "heroics" I could run in my sleep with 4 equally dozing companions.

Originally posted by CayneJobb

Nah, I have to disagree with most of your points, OP.

WoW "decline," if it is in decline, is just a result of the game getting easier, either by Blizzard's design or by players getting increasingly better at the game. The only challenges in the game are in raids and PvP (though raids are not as challenging as they used to be), and that becomes very repetitious. I like to raid sometimes, but it would be nice if there were other fun things (read: challenging and rewarding things) to do, too. There's nothing heroic about "Heroic" instances anymore. I remember some of the BC heroics were at least a little bit challenging, like Shattered Halls and Shadow Labyrinth. Granted, Heroic Oculus can be challenging, but that's mainly because some people don't understand the mechanics of fighting on the dragons, so you often end up with a bad group if you pug it. Heroic ToC was a good addition, but it takes more than one instance to keep people occupied. All of the rest of the "heroics" I could run in my sleep with 4 equally dozing companions.

Agree mostly.

Some raids are hard because when first introduced, none of us have the gear to manage it.  I recall naxx.  When we got enough gear most of naxx is just zerging it.

Some raids are hard b/c we need coordination and gameplay.  If you stand in the first in kolo of VoA, no gear will save you.  If you do not kill the portals in Lord Jar of ToGC, 2 sisters will wipe your raid, whatever gear you have.

Some raids or dungeons require some luck in addition.  2/3 snobolds on your 2/3 healers in Northern beasts ToGC and you have your hands full.

Is that a decline?  Well, we know that Blizz is staging its dungeons so the easiest ones comes out first.  Naxx is pushover now. IC will be very hard when it comes out in 2 months.

Blizz can make it as hard as it wants, just double the damage table of boss and we are all wiping every moment we try.  But does it make sense, across the board?  Well ulduar maybe very easy now for us, but for some of the hard modes, it is still very hard.  Can anyone do the achievement hardmode for the 3 bosses in VoA, its not easy whatever the gear level.  That is what Blizz is doing.  Raids are not overly impossible for reasonable well prepared raid groups, but there are always optioins to try the challenging options.  How many guilds or groups has cleared all achievements of ulduar 10 or 25?  How many have done 14/14 of ulduar?  No many.  Fact is, for some ill organised PUGs, Onyxia and ToC are still wipefests.

The entry ticket to the dungeons are made cheaper, but to get to the top stage, it is still steep climbing.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by googajoob7

If you like world pvp WoW has certainly declined in quality . I know theres wintersgrasp but its been unplayable since the release of wrath of the liche king . The community has declined and is awful now . A friend of mine said recently he thinks its because decent gear is so easy to obtain that you have a bunch of cocky kids playing now thinking they are awsome without really learning how to play . I would suggest maybe servers that offer harder gameplay would be the solution to all those that have left because of it although i would like to see adult servers implimented  because i dont think its right for children and adults to be occupying the same vitrual space for obvious reasons ( of course this should apply to all mmos and not just wow ) .

 

Let me ask you a question.  When was the last time you actually played?

How exactly is wintergrasp unplayable, because I play it everyday and it works just fine.

Also how has the quality gone down?  I sure enjoy the vehicles and destructable walls.

 

 

 

Today about 10 minuits ago . although i m only playing out a 3 month sub untill going over to Aion for a bit ( thats if they sort out the ques in game ) . Wintersgrasp is still appallingly laggy and my pc is nt a bad spec .
 

Originally posted by googajoob7 

Today about 10 minuits ago . although i m only playing out a 3 month sub untill going over to Aion for a bit ( thats if they sort out the ques in game ) . Wintersgrasp is still appallingly laggy and my pc is nt a bad spec .
 

Funny, I play on a laptop over a year old and I have zero troubles in wintergrasp.  Even with full shadows on.  Sounds like it is a problem with your computer and not the game.

Also, Aion has its ques worked out now. 

Originally posted by greed0104

Originally posted by catlana

 

My experience and people that I know would differ. You can get better gear from the arena system easily enough. Yet, there are alot of folks that simply never step foot in arena. Some of them are actually pretty good pvpers. The best hunter I know never steps foot in arena, yet you will find him in Wintergrasp all of the time.

I enjoy taking my mage (my main) into Wintergrasp and LOL at small groups of melee chase that me around. I definitely need no gear from there on my mage.   

I know what you mean about arena, I know some damn good players, they refuse to do arena. Not because they can't, but because they don't enjoy it. Back in the "day" I remember pvping for fun, the thrill. Now it's for purples and points. I stopped doing arena when WOTLK released, so all I had was BGs and WG, it's the only form of pvp fun you can really get. Fun pvp died a long time ago. To me anyways.

I am not a huge fan of arenas myself. I do enjoy pvping thou either on my main or on a alt thou. I do think damage is balanced high in WoTLK. As far as BGs go, I like Isle alot (nice mix) but Strand feels too vechicle dependant. AB remains my favorite thou.

Gaming is about having fun. I took a break yesterday just to relax and destroy peeps in Tekken 6. When Dragon Age comes out, I will be taking quite a bit of time off to play it. I have big Halloween party coming up. If  WoW has stopped being fun for you, take a break and play / do something else.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by googajoob7 

Today about 10 minuits ago . although i m only playing out a 3 month sub untill going over to Aion for a bit ( thats if they sort out the ques in game ) . Wintersgrasp is still appallingly laggy and my pc is nt a bad spec .
 

 

Funny, I play on a laptop over a year old and I have zero troubles in wintergrasp.  Even with full shadows on.  Sounds like it is a problem with your computer and not the game.

 

Also, Aion has its ques worked out now.

lol i guess thats why every wintersgrasp i play there people complaing about the lag in chat . i guess thier pcs all have something wrong with them too . also i play lord of the rings online ... no problem in the etten moors at all . .warhammer no lag in keep sieges. oh what about age of conan that can have some pretty large battles in it and thats takes a lot more computer power than wowr . all run well and even the bgs in wow it self ... all apart from wintersgrasp .

so dont be an idiot and suggest its my pc when you dont have a clue what your talking about .

i dont know what the ques in aion are like now i gave up trying and i m away a lot between now and christmas so its a waste of money for me to renew my sub till the new year .

WOW may not be declining in terms of "net" subs (i.e., new people coming in to more than replace players leaving), but I would bet many vets are dropping out of the game or logging on less often.  The game is easy, is old, and after 5 years, there isn't much to do but wash/rinse/repeat.

WOW had a great initial run, but for many of its early subscribers, it is time for a new MMO to come out.  If Time can bring down mountains, it surely crushes MMO's like paper cups.

Originally posted by googajoob7 

lol i guess thats why every wintersgrasp i play there people complaing about the lag in chat . i guess thier pcs all have something wrong with them too . also i play lord of the rings online ... no problem in the etten moors at all . .warhammer no lag in keep sieges. oh what about age of conan that can have some pretty large battles in it and thats takes a lot more computer power than wowr . all run well and even the bgs in wow it self ... all apart from wintersgrasp .

so dont be an idiot and suggest its my pc when you dont have a clue what your talking about .

i dont know what the ques in aion are like now i gave up trying and i m away a lot between now and christmas so its a waste of money for me to renew my sub till the new year .

I know exactly whats going on googa, do we really need to spell it out? 

No matter what the situation is, you will always mysteriously have the worst possible situation in wow.  The game is always at fault, no matter how many other people show you are incorrect.  It all ends with you name calling. 

Now you say warhammer doesn't lag your computer? A game that is widely recognized for having a horrible game crippling keep lag, but big bad wow brings your massive rig to its knees.  Right, totally believable.  This type of claim really reinforces your credibility.  You don't distort facts or situations to feed you need to complain.  

And you keep an active subscription to a game you constantly cry about.  Great I guess. 

Originally posted by pencilrick

WOW may not be declining in terms of "net" subs (i.e., new people coming in to more than replace players leaving), but I would bet many vets are dropping out of the game or logging on less often.  The game is easy, is old, and after 5 years, there isn't much to do but wash/rinse/repeat.

WOW had a great initial run, but for many of its early subscribers, it is time for a new MMO to come out.  If Time can bring down mountains, it surely crushes MMO's like paper cups.

Well said.  I once read the average lifespan of a player for an mmo is 18 months.  Mind you that is an average.

Wow keeps such a strangle hold on the market, because the games people keep waiting for to come out have been less than interesting and that is being very kind. 

I think wow goes beyond the 18 month average for that reason and additionally it is a very well managed product.  It has avoided most of the pitfalls that other popular games have shot themselves in the foot with a bad expansion or terrible patch. 

DAOC , trials of atlantis, UO: trammel, SWG: to many changes to list, EQ2 combat revamp and most every expansion, Planetside: core combat, etc.  Even EQ had a massive shift when soe took over from the 989 team. 

Many games almost make their experience worse with expansions that drastically change the game or shift focus away from what players enjoy.  Wow hasn't really had that killer mistake yet and no other game has really evolved mmos to the next step that really attracts people to its gameplay.

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by googajoob7 

lol i guess thats why every wintersgrasp i play there people complaing about the lag in chat . i guess thier pcs all have something wrong with them too . also i play lord of the rings online ... no problem in the etten moors at all . .warhammer no lag in keep sieges. oh what about age of conan that can have some pretty large battles in it and thats takes a lot more computer power than wowr . all run well and even the bgs in wow it self ... all apart from wintersgrasp .

so dont be an idiot and suggest its my pc when you dont have a clue what your talking about .

i dont know what the ques in aion are like now i gave up trying and i m away a lot between now and christmas so its a waste of money for me to renew my sub till the new year .

 

I know exactly whats going on googa, do we really need to spell it out? 

 

No matter what the situation is, you will always mysteriously have the worst possible situation in wow.  The game is always at fault, no matter how many other people show you are incorrect.  It all ends with you name calling. 

 

Now you say warhammer doesn't lag your computer? A game that is widely recognized for having a horrible game crippling keep lag, but big bad wow brings your massive rig to its knees.  Right, totally believable.  This type of claim really reinforces your credibility.  You don't distort facts or situations to feed you need to complain.  

And you keep an active subscription to a game you constantly cry about.  Great I guess. 

nah i dont keep an active sub i m letting a three month one run out . i dont think its a terrible game and i ve said many times in the past i ll never say never about returning to it . Wintersgrasp does lag its simply a lie to suggest if does nt . lag is nt anything to do with pc power its to do with the the game . my pc hamdles all modern games on medium to high settings . Its arrogant and stupid to suggest its a pc . So many people like yourself talk ball about them when they ar nt mysterious and hard to use . What are you suggesting i ve a program clash or spyware or a virus on it . Is my memory at fault . Maybe its my internet speed when i use a varitey of speedtests to make sure its not . Hell maybe you dont think i use an anti virus or a have a decent firewall or even anti spyware program . Maybe you think its my hard drive ??? when i put a new one in last month . Could it possibly be overheating ... no i clean it regulary . what about the graphics card being set up wrongly ???  well why does it play every other game and most of wow without any problem at all .
 

you see people like you say its your pc as a default arguement and you have absolutly no idea what your talking about and if you do work in it then your really not upto the job because you know a little and think you know a lot .

Let me make it clear for you . When everyone in chat is complaining about lag and you can hardly move or cast a spell . then ITS LAG . If your saying you dont experiance it in Wintersgrasp ever

Your a LIAR plain and simple .

Get over it and come to reality. Every game loses subs when it gets old and if people want to pretend they don't then by all means do so.

Originally posted by googajoob7

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by googajoob7 

lol i guess thats why every wintersgrasp i play there people complaing about the lag in chat . i guess thier pcs all have something wrong with them too . also i play lord of the rings online ... no problem in the etten moors at all . .warhammer no lag in keep sieges. oh what about age of conan that can have some pretty large battles in it and thats takes a lot more computer power than wowr . all run well and even the bgs in wow it self ... all apart from wintersgrasp .

so dont be an idiot and suggest its my pc when you dont have a clue what your talking about .

i dont know what the ques in aion are like now i gave up trying and i m away a lot between now and christmas so its a waste of money for me to renew my sub till the new year .

 

I know exactly whats going on googa, do we really need to spell it out? 

 

No matter what the situation is, you will always mysteriously have the worst possible situation in wow.  The game is always at fault, no matter how many other people show you are incorrect.  It all ends with you name calling. 

 

Now you say warhammer doesn't lag your computer? A game that is widely recognized for having a horrible game crippling keep lag, but big bad wow brings your massive rig to its knees.  Right, totally believable.  This type of claim really reinforces your credibility.  You don't distort facts or situations to feed you need to complain.  

And you keep an active subscription to a game you constantly cry about.  Great I guess. 

nah i dont keep an active sub i m letting a three month one run out . i dont think its a terrible game and i ve said many times in the past i ll never say never about returning to it . Wintersgrasp does lag its simply a lie to suggest if does nt . lag is nt anything to do with pc power its to do with the the games servers . my pc hamdles all modern games on medium to high settings . Its arrogant and stupid to suggest its a pc . So many people like yourself talk ball about them when they ar nt mysterious and hard to use .

What are you suggesting i ve a program clash or spyware or a virus on it . Is my memory at fault . Maybe its my internet speed when i use a varitey of speedtests to make sure its not . Hell maybe you dont think i use an anti virus or a have a decent firewall or even anti spyware program . Maybe you think its my hard drive ??? when i put a new one in last month . Could it possibly be overheating ... no i clean it regulary . what about the graphics card being set up wrongly ???  well why does it play every other game and most of wow without any problem at all .
 

you see people like you say its your pc as a default arguement and you have absolutly no idea what your talking about and if you do work in i.t. then your really not upto the job because you know a little and think you know a lot .i ve met a lot like you in the past .

Let me make it clear for you . When everyone in chat is complaining about lag and you can hardly move or cast a spell . then  ITS LAG . If your saying you dont experiance it in Wintersgrasp ever

Your a LIAR plain and simple .

Originally posted by googajoob7

nah i dont keep an active sub i m letting a three month one run out . i dont think its a terrible game and i ve said many times in the past i ll never say never about returning to it . Wintersgrasp does lag its simply a lie to suggest if does nt . lag is nt anything to do with pc power its to do with the the games servers . my pc hamdles all modern games on medium to high settings . Its arrogant and stupid to suggest its a pc . So many people like yourself talk ball about them when they ar nt mysterious and hard to use .

What are you suggesting i ve a program clash or spyware or a virus on it . Is my memory at fault . Maybe its my internet speed when i use a varitey of speedtests to make sure its not . Hell maybe you dont think i use an anti virus or a have a decent firewall or even anti spyware program . Maybe you think its my hard drive ??? when i put a new one in last month . Could it possibly be overheating ... no i clean it regulary . what about the graphics card being set up wrongly ???  well why does it play every other game and most of wow without any problem at all .
 

you see people like you say its your pc as a default arguement and you have absolutly no idea what your talking about and if you do work in i.t. then your really not upto the job because you know a little and think you know a lot .i ve met a lot like you in the past .

Let me make it clear for you . When everyone in chat is complaining about lag and you can hardly move or cast a spell . then  ITS LAG . If your saying you dont experiance it in Wintersgrasp ever

Your a LIAR plain and simple .

 

Search my post history and I doubt you will find me every blaming a games problems on peoples computers.  Don't act so smug like you have figured me out, because you have not. Though it is nice of you to have an entire conversation with me and doing both sides of the speaking yourself.  What better way to make yourself look correct huh? 

The bolded statement is just an example of why you cannot be taken seriously.  The way you speak for EVERYONE as if your experience is the only one possible.  Sorry friend, wintergrasp plays just fine for me and I don't see EVERYONE stuck frozen in lag hell that you say it is.  In fact I don't see anyone complaining about lag or people frozen in place as I run around blowing people up and getting blown up myself.   If EVERYONE was lagging to hell except me, I would be a pvp god as I run around lag free destroying my enemies as they are frozen in place unable to cast spells.   Trust me when I say that I would be one of the last people to be called anything close to a great pvp player.  

So yes, I THINK the problem is on your end since it doesn't seem to be affecting EVERYONE as claim, but that is nothing new with you.  Notice I never pretended to know what your lag issue was, but if the problem you describe isn't happening to everyone I think the conclusion is pretty easy to see.  Well for most people that is

Actually I am healer. 

Originally posted by Zorndorf

Originally posted by googajoob7

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by googajoob7 

lol i guess thats why every wintersgrasp i play there people complaing about the lag in chat . i guess thier pcs all have something wrong with them too . also i play lord of the rings online ... no problem in the etten moors at all . .warhammer no lag in keep sieges. oh what about age of conan that can have some pretty large battles in it and thats takes a lot more computer power than wowr . all run well and even the bgs in wow it self ... all apart from wintersgrasp .

so dont be an idiot and suggest its my pc when you dont have a clue what your talking about .

i dont know what the ques in aion are like now i gave up trying and i m away a lot between now and christmas so its a waste of money for me to renew my sub till the new year .

 

I know exactly whats going on googa, do we really need to spell it out? 

 

No matter what the situation is, you will always mysteriously have the worst possible situation in wow.  The game is always at fault, no matter how many other people show you are incorrect.  It all ends with you name calling. 

 

Now you say warhammer doesn't lag your computer? A game that is widely recognized for having a horrible game crippling keep lag, but big bad wow brings your massive rig to its knees.  Right, totally believable.  This type of claim really reinforces your credibility.  You don't distort facts or situations to feed you need to complain.  

And you keep an active subscription to a game you constantly cry about.  Great I guess. 

nah i dont keep an active sub i m letting a three month one run out . i dont think its a terrible game and i ve said many times in the past i ll never say never about returning to it . Wintersgrasp does lag its simply a lie to suggest if does nt . lag is nt anything to do with pc power its to do with the the game . my pc hamdles all modern games on medium to high settings . Its arrogant and stupid to suggest its a pc . So many people like yourself talk ball about them when they ar nt mysterious and hard to use . What are you suggesting i ve a program clash or spyware or a virus on it . Is my memory at fault . Maybe its my internet speed when i use a varitey of speedtests to make sure its not . Hell maybe you dont think i use an anti virus or a have a decent firewall or even anti spyware program . Maybe you think its my hard drive ??? when i put a new one in last month . Could it possibly be overheating ... no i clean it regulary . what about the graphics card being set up wrongly ???  well why does it play every other game and most of wow without any problem at all .
 

you see people like you say its your pc as a default arguement and you have absolutly no idea what your talking about and if you do work in it then your really not upto the job because you know a little and think you know a lot .

Let me make it clear for you . When everyone in chat is complaining about lag and you can hardly move or cast a spell . then ITS LAG . If your saying you dont experiance it in Wintersgrasp ever

Your a LIAR plain and simple .

 

Useless answer as ... like always ... the situation changed.

Wintergrasp is now limited to 120/120. You can join the Raid group in the city and the moment you are called for, you are IN the Raid automatically (3 Raids max on each side).

It shows people posting about a game they no longer play are always on the losing end when discussing things.

And IF you would still encounter lag it would be the client side (or its ISP), not the server side. There are no further hic ups to the servers since they changed this mechanic in Lake Wintergrasp.

This has been long discussed on the official forums. As always these days, the changes are faster than the haters can type.

 

Funny my girlfriend was playing wintersgrasp earlier today it was still lagging terribly . Shes not on the same isp as me either or the same computer . Hers is better than mine as well and mines not bad . Maybe its different for the American servers is all i can say in Europe we still get the lag .
 

That issue aside . most of this week there have only been 12 high population servers in europe ( and thats a school half term week which are normally peaks for numbers of players ) it has shot up to 18 today . but when wow was at its peak last winter there were regulary 30+ high population servers . there are also a lot more low population ones now .

The battlegrounds last winter were brimming over with people playing them where as now very often theres 5-10 mins wait . It could be people have lost interest in them and are doing pvp instances and arenas i guess .

But the general feeling in Europe at least is the game is nt as busy as it was last year . Again i cant comment other areas and without Blizzard releasing subscription numbers no one is really going to know how many subs they have lost in 2009 .

One things for certain they havnt increased because Blizzard would have made a big thing of it and its highly unlikly they have remained the same . So logically they have gone down in  numbers .

Originally posted by googajoob7 

Funny my girlfriend was playing wintersgrasp earlier today it was still lagging terribly . Shes not on the same isp as me either or the same computer . Hers is better than mine as well and mines not bad . Maybe its different for the American servers is all i can say in Europe we still get the lag .
 

That issue aside . most of this week there have only been 12 high population servers in europe ( and thats a school half term week which are normally peaks for numbers of players ) it has shot up to 18 today . but when wow was at its peak last winter there were regulary 30+ high population servers . there are also a lot more low population ones now .

The battlegrounds last winter were brimming over with people playing them where as now very often theres 5-10 mins wait . It could be people have lost interest in them and are doing pvp instances and arenas i guess .

But the general feeling in Europe at least is the game is nt as busy as it was last year . Again i cant comment other areas and without Blizzard releasing subscription numbers no one is really going to know how many subs they have lost in 2009 .

One things for certain they havnt increased because Blizzard would have made a big thing of it and its highly unlikly they have remained the same . So logically they have gone down in  numbers .

Great your girlfriend has lag.  I am not saying people don't have lag in wow, but you are saying EVERYONE does in wintergrasp which just isn't true.  The fact that wintergrasp plays fine for people rules out the hyperbole that you constantly spew to back up your opinions.  If wintergrasp plays just fine for the people next to you, but you are lagged to hell, then it is next to impossible for it to be the fault of the wow servers.  Unless you want people to believe the server somehow randomly decides to lag certain people like yourself. I'm sure that will not stop you from trying to somehow blame the game for your problems.  

One more time, just because blizzard has not released a statement that wow broke the 12 million milestone does not mean the game is in decline.  You are misusing the data.  The situation in china has a HUGE impact on blizzards ability to break 12 million also.  It is not a natural situation to have something like that happen. 

As for servers being less populated, I won't argue that even though it is not what I am experiencing. It is typical for mmos to slow down in the fall when school starts up again.  Not to mention when an expansion has been out over a year, the last major dungeon was over 6 months ago, etc.  These are things you either overlook or don't understand.  It doesn't matter which really, because you can see it in every game during the same time/situations.  

It is a natural trend. 

Originally posted by WKnight

I've been paying attention to WoW.

Now that they're transitioning into an item mall shop and offering up cross server instancing it's clear 11 million is to me loled at

What? Sprechen sie Englisch?

Originally posted by WKnight

Originally posted by drajaic

Originally posted by WKnight

I've been paying attention to WoW.

Now that they're transitioning into an item mall shop and offering up cross server instancing it's clear 11 million is to me loled at

 

What? Sprechen sie Englisch?

 

Feel free to post us the subscription numbers if you have them, but you don't....

Once again...What? I'm still trying to figure out what the hell this even means.

"Now that they're transitioning into an item mall shop and offering up cross server instancing it's clear 11 million is to me loled at"

I agree with your points completely. This is the problem with level based games, regardless of the content. It all becomes about the endgame and progression at max level. When progression is about what happens at max level, gear is the most obvious choice for the carrot-on-a-stick problem games have. The simplification of the game is a different problem, and it is upsetting because, if anything, a game should grow more complicated to keep people interested. I like complicated things, but then I enjoy "theorycrafting," as it were.

Attunement, also, was a fantastic idea and it created a real sense of progression, whereas now, when one c an buy gear with badges, you do not need to play the previous dungeons, and, as such, do not need to understand the game, the way encounters work, or even the lore of the world. It is disheartening all on its own.

The money thing is just Blizzard being Blizzard. They are as bad as SOE now, and I would try not to read too much into it. They are a greedy corporation and anything that might make them a little bit of money is something they will try.

Also, you used a semicolon correctly, and I think that is just freaking fantastic.