Originally posted by Horny

 

Basically you can do this better with a offline game. Its a waste try to do this in a MMORPG.

Just check WoW... Everybody start with a long levelling jorney where there is many content who nobody have time to go. Who will waste time with outdated content if all good stuff is in end game?

Everybody uses the same stuff and you should not customize your character wears (everybody should use tier to become competitive).

Everybody should start a endless gear grinding after the long leveling jorney (normally without enjoy the lore).

Everybody craft and sell/buy the same stuff and should not waste time outdated material (it doesnt pay as its supose to). WoW economy is a black hole (even in highest levels) and it was designed to be it.

Everybody is supose to be "the hero" but nobody becomes a hero in the end. I dont know about you but glowing armors or weapons doent make me feel a "hero" and WoW storyline is far from "epic" to me.

 

There are now MORE than 30.000 items for use in Wow.

A look at the auction House with tens of thousands different articles in it, show you Sir don't even play Wow in a serious matter.

Just an INDEPENDANT reference:

"The battle for Azeroth" a compilation book of articles made by some of the best writers/authorities .

Quote" ... Azaroth has an economy Alan Greenspan would be proud of, from supply and demand to buying and selling ... "

I am making 400 Gold each week by merely selling the highest crafted scope in the game.

And it is a known fact engineering is NOT there to make money :)))

Crafted items are just one or two levels behind the highest possible drops in the raids and as only 2 or 3 percent can make it to this content, the crafting economy works perfectly.

But of course you need to play Wow NOW and not talk of yesterday.

Originally posted by Pepsipwnzgod

i think WoW will have around 2 years after WoTLK of high gameplay numbers but it will decline after that, the story is over - there's no more to add unless the make up bullsh*t just to keep it going like they did with arena's and honor gear

Emerald dream...the Maelstrom...and some other places not in game yet...

There is plenty of more story to be covered.

It doesn't suck. We're just bored of it and many of us who are bored of it have nothing else to play (and no lives to speak of), so we just complain about the game and hope it will change to our liking. Fat chance, that.

Originally posted by Shumakiso

Originally posted by Pappy13

Originally posted by Shumakiso

Doesnt the fact that there needs to be a list of reasons why WoW doesnt suck mean that it sucks? Who is this trying to convince i wonder?

 

No it doesn't.  It means it's a response to the thread "Short list of reasons why WoW sucks".  That' is the reason for this thread.  This thread doesn't exist because it needs to, it exists because that other thread exists.  Nothing more.

It's not trying to convince anyone of anything.  I just got tired of seeing people come into the WoW forums and bash the game in that thread and thought maybe there should be a thread for those of us that like that game where we could post our opinions.  Apparently you are in the wrong thread :)

 

So its needed to convince people the other way from the "WoW sucks thread". Apparently I am in the right thread :)

No you are DEFINATELY in the wrong thread.  Trust me on this.

Originally posted by Bronks

Originally posted by fuzzylojik

My 9 year old nephew can play it, so it's child friendly.  Cartoony graphics and bright colors also appeal to children.  My friend's whole family is in the same guild.

And you get to rob children of their innocence when you have sick idiots running around asking everyone to cyber. My wife gets asked at least once a night while in the AH if she's willing to cyber. WoW is a haven for online predators because the game is so simple to play. I'd rather my children play almost anything besides WoW.

What exactly does your wife do to elicit such questions?  Does she play a male or female toon?  Dress provacatively or something?  I have both male and female toons.  Been playing the game since beta practically everyday.  Have a buddy that plays even more than me.  Neither of us have EVER been asked to cyber either at the AH or away from it.  What's her secret?

Originally posted by Laiina

Originally posted by Daffid011

Laiina you can't really pick and choose a separate game to compare to each bullet point about one game.  Anyhow, comparisons like that will just produce skewed views.  Sure there are plenty of games that do one thing much better than WoW does [or most any game for that matter], but overall when looking at everything a game has to offer is where WoW shines.

I don't agree that WOW shines any more than several other games in any but 1 or 2 of the points (and I have played about 8, starting with Meridian 59). I could post that list in half a dozen other forums and it would be correct - with the possible exception of the single most important factor - it's popularity means that there are more people playing it at any one time.

Care to be more specific?  Which forums would you post this in where all 10 points would still be valid?  Certainly not Conan which would fail on #2.  Not Vanguard which would fail at #1.  Not LOTRO which would fail at #5.  Not EQ2 which would fail at #4 like most others would, but I guess your correct that's mostly just because of WoW popularity.  But then again, why is WoW so popular?  Some claim it's marketing.  Some claim it's because it's easy.  Other's claim it's because it's full of kids that don't know any better.  There any evidence to back any of that up?  Nope.  Is there any evidence that it's something else?  Like maybe it's just one very nice game, yep tons of it.  Just go read the reviews.  Nearly every review gives it top marks across the board.  It's #1 with places like Gamerankings.com and Metacritic.  But you're probably right, they are ALL wrong.  You know better.

Comparing all the points between two games is more accurate.  You point out EQ2 as having more content, but even John Smedley has stated that quality of that content has suffered at the speed with which they put it out.  In this case Quantity isn't better than quality if you will.  Instead of going down the list to compare EQ2s free content vs WoW you skip to LOTRO, because EQ2 is very weak in free content or free anything for that matter. 

You are about 3 years behind the curve on that one. EQ2 has added far more content, and far more free content that WOW. EQ2 has put out free game updates now almost every single month - the next one next week will be GU47. How many major free updates has WOW had?

16 and counting.  But that's just MAJOR updates.  Total updates is 46 not counting the expansion.  But then pure numbers don't really tell the full story does it, because you can release an update everyday and change one thing and that doesn't really mean much does it now?

The statement that Smedley made was over 3 years ago. LOTRO has also added a lot more free (and much more frequent) content. In fact I would say that WOW would be pressed to make #5 on the list of new content.

Actually the amount of content added in the first year or so of WoW is pretty similar to what was produced by LOTRO.  I had already shown this in an earlier post somewhere...I'll have to see if I can find it.  It was a while back and I post alot :)

AH!  Here ya go...

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/1930057#1930057

You say that the only thing WoW has going for it is lots of people play it and that tends to feed on itself.  EQ2 had lots of people playing it at launch, but it lost about half of its subscribers soon after, because there is more to a game than how many people play it.  It isn't as if people only play WoW because millions of others do, there is some substance to the gameplay underneath all the quick dismissal of the game itself. 

The history of WOW almost automatically gave it a huge player base to start with, since it had some 30 million Diablo fans to draw from.

And Everquest 2 had how many Everquest fans to draw from?  Didn't seem to help it much.

The one point that I will concede that WOW did better than any other game is marketing and publicity. They recognized that most people do not really want a "hard" game, like EQ1 or VG - and they made the graphic standards low enough so you could run it on any machine less than 6 years old.

Wait that's already 3 points.  Marketing, Ease of play and low minimum requirements.  How many things you going to lump into one point?  I guess if you lump all 10 points I made into 1, then yeah they only did 1 thing better....everything.

And just for the record, almost every new game out there - including WOW - lost/loses a large portion of it's initial subscribers. Some are much worse, supposedly AoC lost about 2/3 in the first month.

The difference is that the good ones continue to replace the ones they lost with new customers.  That's how subscriber numbers GROW.  WoW didn't start out with 10 million subscribers, it GREW to 10 million plus.  And how does THAT happen?  By word of mouth, not marketing.

And I did not "dismiss" the game. I stated that WOW - like almost any other halfway viable MMO now out there shares about 90% of any points you can make about it.

Maybe it's that last 10% that is important?

Personally I find WOW a bit simplistic, but I also no longer have the time to stay up until 2am on 6 hour EQ1 raids. WOW is a great game for the more casual player - which is probably 90% of the player base. I can play WOW and have fun - but I don't kid myself that it is any kind of an intellectual challenge either.

So which MMO is?

And to be honest, I am rather burned out on the whole fantasy game genre having played them for almost 10 years off and on. I tend to look much more critically at any game than I would have a few years ago.

Ah so you admit that you're being more critical on WoW than games in the past.  Some of us aren't that jaded yet.

But until something really different comes out, we are all pretty much stuck with the likes of WOW, EQ, LOTRO, and similar Tolkien based games unless we want to play EVE Online.

Agreed.  I guess we'll just have to wait for Blizzard's next MMO :)

 

Originally posted by Vicksburg

There are now MORE than 30.000 items for use in Wow.

What is the matter to have 30.000 items if everybody should use the same stuff?

A look at the auction House with tens of thousands different articles in it, show you Sir don't even play Wow in a serious matter.

You dont even know about what i was talking about.

Just an INDEPENDANT reference:

"The battle for Azeroth" a compilation book of articles made by some of the best writers/authorities .

Here is a link to your "independent" reference:

http://www.amazon.com/Battle-Azeroth-Adventure-Alliance-Addiction/dp/1932100849

Quote" ... Azaroth has an economy Alan Greenspan would be proud of, from supply and demand to buying and selling ... "

I am making 400 Gold each week by merely selling the highest crafted scope in the game.

I use to do this in 4-5 days and I still amazed with people who belive this is good.

And it is a known fact engineering is NOT there to make money :)))

We heard this from blacksmiths, alchemists, leatherworkers... Dont worry. Everybody has this problem there.

Crafted items are just one or two levels behind the highest possible drops in the raids and as only 2 or 3 percent can make it to this content, the crafting economy works perfectly.

Its a one-hand Axe's list from armory search. Please pay attention to the "Item lvl" and "Source" from each item:

www.wowarmory.com/search.xml

But of course you need to play Wow NOW and not talk of yesterday.

Learn 2 play

 www.youtube.com/watch

 

Originally posted by Bronks

Originally posted by Daffid011

Originally posted by Ascension08

It's the Wal-Mart of MMOs. It's big, it attracts tons of customers, and, more often than not, smaller games don't get a chance to really flourish because of it. Though I believe you meant "Bind on Pickup", because you can trade Bind on Equip items.

 

Smaller games have their chance and nothing is stopping them.  It isn't like Warcraft is undercutting the small MMOs by lowering prices to unheard of levels because of their huge buying power.  Anyone can make a game that is successful if they put the time into it.  The only thing stopping the smaller [or any other] company is themselves.  Other games aren't "flourishing", because people are getting sick and tired of half finished games getting released with flawed/rushed game designs.  Why pay to beta test a game when you can play a well designed and finshed MMO?

 

Your analogy doesn't compare similar products which is why it fails, like most analogies do.

 

The analogy was good... Walmart shoppers = WoW Gamers.

Walmart shoppers do not drive down the street to try a new store = WoW gamers playing WoW even when they have 8 toons in tier 5 gear waiting 1.5 years between expansions but still play WoW.

 

This is why small games don't get a chance: If you can get everything you need from  Walmart or WoW, why should you have to go anywhere else? Be a lemming like the rest of your town

How does that make WoW bad if you are getting the best from the older mmo's and losing what didn't work? That is what has made WoW so great....

PS

How is doing dailies much different from grinding random mobs with a certain drop (like you would do on many mmo's) for money?

What mmo has MULTIPLE sets of gear with TOP stats?

People complain everyone looks the same... but what mmo wouldn't people look the same with the top gear... and gear being easy to get is good since this game is so gear needy...

People go from QQ'n about gear imbalance to QQ about gear being easy to get (which fixed the imbalance)... make up your mind.

Originally posted by Bronks

Originally posted by fuzzylojik

My 9 year old nephew can play it, so it's child friendly.  Cartoony graphics and bright colors also appeal to children.  My friend's whole family is in the same guild.

And you get to rob children of their innocence when you have sick idiots running around asking everyone to cyber. My wife gets asked at least once a night while in the AH if she's willing to cyber. WoW is a haven for online predators because the game is so simple to play. I'd rather my children play almost anything besides WoW.

Perceptive.  Child friendly games do attract a kiddy community, a part of which WoW is made of.  Many other games elicit the attention of raging hormonal teens btw, not only wow.

Tons of repeatable daily quests available to extend the threadmill and get more gold.  You can make upwards of 50$/day selling gold which beats a real job.

Gold farming for real money is never a good thing. You obviously don't have a family if $50 a day makes you content.

Hey some people can buy a lot of rice with that money! Besides there is a one child poilicy in certain farming countries...... you don't need land to farm just the internet. You're not thinking outside the US im taking it.

Item based progression means that you continually have to update items.  Expansions wipes the slate clean so that everyone can get better epics in 2 weeks no matter how good your past gear was.  This evens and resets the playing field every expansion.

I've witnessed this as upsetting more people than it benefits.

Yep. Well deduced.

Originally posted by Bronks 

 

The analogy was good... Walmart shoppers = WoW Gamers.

Walmart shoppers do not drive down the street to try a new store = WoW gamers playing WoW even when they have 8 toons in tier 5 gear waiting 1.5 years between expansions but still play WoW.

 

This is why small games don't get a chance: If you can get everything you need from  Walmart or WoW, why should you have to go anywhere else? Be a lemming like the rest of your town

So now WoW is walmart, its the subscribers that are the analogy.  Your first analogy was bad, but this one is even worse.
 

Small games are not given the right to succeed, they must earn it.  Walmart and WoW do not share similar characterisitcs except that they are both popular in their respective fields, that is it.  Walmart is a discount commodity business where anyone can sell the same exact item, but they just sell it cheaper.  MMOs are free to sell any kind of game they wish.  It isn't like Blizzard can sell copies of EQ2 cheaper than SOE which is driving them out of business.  In fact most MMOs cost the same exact subscription rate which makes for a very level playing field. 

Do Warcraft "shoppers" go down the street to try other "stores" as you so incorrectly put it?  Sure they do.  Conan has 700k, but looks to be dropping off as reviews of the game expose serious flaws and missing content.  Warhammer has how many hundreds of thousands of beta applications? It has more beta applica