I do not think this is a problem just related to WOW but anyway here it goes.  I was addicted myself to the game and I admit at having learnt the hard way exactly like you guys.  It is all a question of time, of pride and of respect.  Everyone wants to be the best in the shortest time and in actually doing so s/he looks down on the people trying to do the same thing.    This creates a terribly competitive environment and once you arrive to the end aka you are 70 with full tier sets you realise that there is nothing more, because it is just a game and you rushed it so much that you did not actually take time to enjoy it and probably are almost in everyones ignore list.  Then when your few friends start stopping to play you end up lonely and frustrated and view all your hard work as it really is - worthless.  So you just run off in search of another world, another game and probably redo the same mistakes over again.  Actually you will be terribly dissatisfied if you fail to actually find a new game with a better experience. Believe me it happened to me with DND and LOTRO (but thats another story :P)

The key to mmoRPg should be to socialise, make friends, chat and discuss, and LIVE the game together for only this would make you want to go back and have fun.  It is like using WOW for MIRC purposes.  It is the sharing of an experience.  Perhaps it is because a lot of very young people play or because a lot are unsocial or immature but most guilds are just level level level or play play play else you are kicked out of guild.  This just burns out both the player and his/her desire to continue with the game.  Jeez with all the peer pressure being applied on you in order to be accepted it is no surprise most people end up burned up or without a life or both.  I actually had people laugh at me cause I spent 2 hours fishing and chating rather than questing or pvping. 

Gaming is fun! People we should do it when we feel like it and not when others impose it on us. Also worlds like WOW are great to run away to for a while however the idea should be to have a break from real life and not to run away from it permanently.  Real life problems will never resolve by themselves, they will remain waiting for you and often the more you wait to tackle them the worse they get.  Not being happy and full of problems in real life will also affect your gaming experience, instilling hatred towards the game because you will not accept that even in a game you may fail or have problems and trouble.

I completely agree with the OP.

In part you comments are exactly why I don't like level based MMOs.  I feel level based MMOs only reinforce the "end-game" focus that turns an MMO into a rat-race to hit max level. 

IMHO SWG was on the right track with a skill based system and a heavy focus on the social aspect of the game and on building in game communities. 

I kinda agree.

But competing with other to get to level X, or to achieve Y is also part of socialising.  I have no regrets with any MMO.  They are massive amount of time well wasted.  I made tons of fun.

But I won't stop achieving.  Yet, I never end up on many ignore list.  I use mine a few times, but not that often.

Competition is a part of socialisation for me.  It will not take precedence over it, but the day I can't progress, or the day I realize the progression to the end is outside of my reach, I just switch games.  I play to progress, all the way to the end.  Actually reaching it or not is irrelevant.  I take a ride to find the Eldorado, finding it is a nice way to end the game, if I know I can't find it (raiding for example), then I just play another game.  Having a hardtime or easy time to get there is irrelevant, as long as it is fun.

You seems to think that competition is not part of socialisation...and for some peoples it isn't.  For me, it is.  I won't look down on anyone who isn't competing and I will group them with glee.  However, don't mislead yourself, I am always trying to compete with everyone I can in every conceivable way.  Some peoples are way too good for me in an aspect or two, that doesn't mean they are out of my league for everything.  Been well known and desired to do task X,Y,Z is also a strong feeling and quite fun.  When peoples recognize you and start ninja-inviting you when they do task X, Y or Z because they know you like that and are a good asset, this is great.

However, if someone see the competition before the socialisation, I agree with you.  The point to compete is not the medal, it is the social interactions.  When someone ask me a question, this is always great for me...and hopefully for him to by learning a thing or two about the game.  I don't want to win and beat other, I want to give it a good try; not the same.  If I win and we have a good time, good.  I won't be rude to other to win, I will even stop and lend them a hand so they can remain in the run, even if they beat me. 

Wise words Anofalye, however sometimes it is the good people who end up at the mercy of frustration especially when having to deal with overpowered immature persons or kids.  Of course competition is part of it, I agree 100%, if there is no reward for your efforts then it is not really fun.  Competition is a MUST to see real teamwork at play and I guess that is the maximum of socialising: struggling together to achieve a goal before or like others.  Lets face it you cannot realy have a good team unless you really know the others in your raid and they know you, the strengths and weaknesses and making up for the weaknesses.

Its when people play foul in order to compete that things turn nasty.  True enough its part of human nature which can be easily unleashed in a game.  Personally I never really ended up on a lot of ignore lists and to be honest on most of the some in which I did end up, I am extremely happy at having done so.    My biggest concern is that I have too many people on my ignore list and unfortunately it keeps getting longer.  Ok perhaps most think I'm a weird too serious RPer however I do not tolerate disrepect especially in guilds and towards low levels and newbies. 

Lol, just a couple of days ago I was invited to a party to a mid level dungeon.  All of a sudden one of my friends said "hey Trev one of the players (a female char but not necessarily female) is moaning that she is on your ignore list why is that?".  As usual my reply was, "Boq dunno,  I dont keep track of what people did to get in my ignore list, however if she is there she must be an idiot.  Thats the only way in."  After some laughs I unignored the player, we had a nice chat and moved on to the dungeon.  To sum it up I soon remembered why she was on ignore.  She never stopped complaining and believe me when I say that she has no idea on how to play and support a party.  We tried to be patient and help her but her arrogance was unbearable.  She even accused us of hacking rolls  and finally she ninja the last boss chest.  Now she is on all the other's ignore list too but hey she made our life miserable and ruined our evening with the ninja act.  Now most of you would say hey why didn't you kick her? Hell she was the only tank available at that moment.

I don't want to be pessimistic.  Sometimes it does happen that people actually asked me on their alts to unignore them and appologised for their attitude and hey what a change once they realised they are in a serious guild and accepted it.  My point is not against kidding or teasing or having fun or competition.  My point is "hey do the right thing in the right time!"

i also agree with your post but with a game that takes so long i would also rush to get to a high level and then re roll for the adventure

i think a problem with MMO players these days is they want things and they want things now.  they dont care to spend hours and hours getting the stuff or spreading out that time so they dont get bored too fast either.  WoW is fairly quick and appeals to the fast players EVE rewards time and effort.  in this modern age of instant things its hard not to fall into that trap in games.

i say MMO's should be more like Baldurs gate and Oblivion

Originally posted by Death1942

i think a problem with MMO players these days is they want things and they want things now.  they dont care to spend hours and hours getting the stuff or spreading out that time so they dont get bored too fast either.  WoW is fairly quick and appeals to the fast players EVE rewards time and effort.  in this modern age of instant things its hard not to fall into that trap in games.

 

i say MMO's should be more like Baldurs gate and Oblivion

Op, i agree to you with 100%. The athmosphere of everyone wanting the best gear to be more ubar than oneself is, and even smacktalking about others sub-par gear made me quit many mmos. Wow was extreme, GuildWars was a bit better because you could play many parts only with npcs and not bother about partymembers whining that they didnt kill enough mobs / second...But playing a mmo like a singleplayergame is pointless. Lineage..well, lets not speak about lineage here.

thanks for necroing that thread, brutus, gave me a nice read :)
(im not alone! yay!)

I couldn't agree more with you.

I personally am being pressured to get to 70 ASAP form my guild, we are new and we want to recruit for Kara runs and i am one of the higher level characters but i truly attempt to enjoy the game(i'm getting flamed alot for dicking around). I can spend hours on end just running around Orgrimmar talking in general and whoever else wishes to chat or running Ragefire Chasm for the heck of it(i got laughed at). But it seems no-one else in my guild just understands that. I attempted fishing but i'm just abit to impatient for that.

The thing is for the few, or many in this case, getting to the level cap quickly is enjoyable for them. Someone asked why people get addicted and i believe, and this is what i told them, that reaching the next level or getting that epic gives people that warm feeling inside, a gratuitous feeling of accomplishment. A few minutes later that person leveled and responded "You're right, now i know what you mean."

That's the reason i grind and quest so hard, when people won't talk to me , i love it when i hit the next level.

Being the best might not necessarily be peoples motive to reach the top in the quickest time possible with every epic. It could just be for that sense of achievment that they feel every time they get that level, get that epic, hit that level cap.

Nonetheless what you say is true, and as i said, i couldn't agree more. I'm just hoping one day soon that the problem will be fixed.