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World of Warcraft Forum » General Discussion » The dumbing down being counter productive

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36 posts found
  Clerigo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/01/10
Posts: 404

Healing Over Time since 2004

10/14/13 6:00:42 AM#21

This is an already overly debated subject and WoW will never have the hardcore base fan it had since the days of TBC.

In a time where players sought social online gaming communities that could provide enough challengeable content to make it worth  spending your time in it, and they were given few choices from MMOs that existed at time, like EQ, Lineage, Vanguard, GW, etc, they have now a gamer base of new people that in their majority are just interested in bright lights, geting shinnies as fast as they can and a Q system for everything they have in the game and to make it worse all of that to be divided by all the MMOs available at this time...wich as you all know are more than you can count, wich makes players follow the flavour of the month and not stick to a given game. Not all of course...but many of them.

I can give you a good example if we look at WoW: many of the players that are now complaining that WoW has lost the great core gamers it once had are the same players that said "oh we can have a LGF tool and an auto Q system, that would be great and would save me alot of time". Now people just sit around in central hubs Qing for everything. And what you get: one of the greatest exploration maps in MMO genre completely empty, with empty cities, in a complete dumbed down game.

This from a game that i still call my greatest gaming experience ever, where everyone had to run the world map from top to bottom, where raids where formed just to reach a given dungeon or raid....

...yes its true, you actually had to ride your mount to do stuff...pfff..how sick is that??...

...and what you get now is just a playground for a player base that Blizzard knew at some point they needed to have, because you know, thats where the money is, and thats why you will never get it back again...it isnt profitable.

  spookydom

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/08
Posts: 1807

I'm a lvl 50 Batman!

10/14/13 6:21:59 AM#22
I would like to see some kind of time locked progression server thing like Everquest did,  with the community voting on what xpac or game feature to release next but starting with vanilla. May seem like going backwards to go forwards but would definitely bring players like me back into the fold I think.

  BruceYee

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/04/08
Posts: 245

10/15/13 1:39:48 AM#23
Originally posted by cheyane

I installed WoW day before yesterday thinking to kill some time before FFXIV ARR and I logged on my level 32 druid and I joined a dungeon finder group and they ran like chickens with their heads cut off and I could not even look at where we were going as I was healing all the time. I did one more dungeon and I stopped playing. Have not touched it since. I am sad ,I really am .I was hoping for I do not even know what perhaps to recapture some of the fun vanilla days.

 

There is no one talking in the group even . I might as well go play SWTOR till FFXIV comes out even if I solo my companion will talk to me.

I had a similar experience myself. I resubbed and logged in but the zones and cities were empty compared to even 6 months ago. I queued for a BG but the mechanics have changed so much that pvp fights were not really fights but was instead whoever could target and click their 1 shot kill move before the other person. It's really sad seeing this game in the state it is now.

@ OP, my guess is they figure they've made their money from it and I doubt that they are gonna invest any funds/effort into it if they haven't done so already.

"If you can control a man's thinking, you do not have to worry about his actions. When you determine what a man shall think you do not have to concern yourself about what he will do."-Winston Churchill

  DrSmaSh

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/10/04
Posts: 463

Be yourself

10/17/13 9:21:19 AM#24

For me personally, downfall of WoW began with the patch in BC, when they made tanking super easy. I was warrior tank back in those days and I loved the challenge. You NEEDED some classes, you needed CC, you needed to mark targets, you needed to pull etc. After that patch all it came down to was AOE damage, rushing in all guns blazing. It was a fun change for a short while, but very quickly I grew tired of it. WoW was always easy, but I feel like that patch kinda marked the end of it all. Making casual super casual. Without risk, reward has no meaning.

Here's hoping for WoW 2, since I do have so many good memories from WoW. Remember the beta, I was blown away, I never had that much fun in a video game before. I met so many good people in WoW, I miss it all. But WoW as it is, it's long dead. Sadly.

EDIT:

@Clerigo holy crap, you put it so nicely. Couldn't agree more. It's just sad.

Every time I read your post, I die a little inside...

  Briansho

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/06
Posts: 4789

Functionless Art is Simply Tolerated Vandalism...We Are The Vandals.

10/17/13 12:58:11 PM#25
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by Briansho
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by moguy2
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard
Originally posted by cheyane

I installed WoW day before yesterday thinking to kill some time before FFXIV ARR and I logged on my level 32 druid and I joined a dungeon finder group and they ran like chickens with their heads cut off and I could not even look at where we were going as I was healing all the time. I did one more dungeon and I stopped playing. Have not touched it since. I am sad ,I really am .I was hoping for I do not even know what perhaps to recapture some of the fun vanilla days.

 

There is no one talking in the group even . I might as well go play SWTOR till FFXIV comes out even if I solo my companion will talk to me.

Next time you have WoW nostalgia, do what I did: get yourself a "free" account.

You're capped at level 20, but you can do almost everything, PvP, PvE, dungeons (low level ones obviously), and it doesn't cost a cent. I have both a hunter and a druid, fully equipped with the best gear at level 20. Maybe I'll get some heirlooms through PvP someday.

You are so right here. When you cant use the auction house, trade with people, or even use public channels your whole life changes. It truly becomes a rubix cube of events to figure out how to get an enchant on a piece of armor.  Or get a piece of armor in general. And you dont pay a dime $ $

That was quite fun too - I of course had to level enchanting for my own gear.

You can even make a Panda if you want (mine are human and worgen) to experience their starter area for free, you just can't make a monk (yet).

A few good links:

http://greentintedgoggles.wordpress.com/2011/07/26/a-guide-to-trial-account-twinking/

For druids:

http://lunsh-f2p.blogspot.fr/

Great sites! Is there a way to set a current inactive account to a trial account?

Just add a trial WoW account to your battle.net account.

When you log into your battle net account, right under your link to the WoW page it says add starter account, click that.

Thanks!

Don't be terrorized! You're more likely to die of a car accident, drowning, fire, or murder! More people die every year from prescription drugs than terrorism LOL!

  Icewhite

Made History

Joined: 7/11/11
Posts: 6495

Pink, it's like red but not quite.

10/17/13 1:33:19 PM#26
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Now this makes me wondering how blizzard will handle this dillema.

By chortling and calling for another truck to transport the dollars to the bank?

Same way they've handled all other "dillema"s.

 

Sorry, I never stop being amazed at how many people feel qualified to tell Blizzard how "ur doing it wrong"...your 30k salary vs. their GNP-level income...

Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  alterfenix

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 335

10/20/13 5:34:55 PM#27
Originally posted by Clerigo

This is an already overly debated subject and WoW will never have the hardcore base fan it had since the days of TBC.

In a time where players sought social online gaming communities that could provide enough challengeable content to make it worth  spending your time in it, and they were given few choices from MMOs that existed at time, like EQ, Lineage, Vanguard, GW, etc, they have now a gamer base of new people that in their majority are just interested in bright lights, geting shinnies as fast as they can and a Q system for everything they have in the game and to make it worse all of that to be divided by all the MMOs available at this time...wich as you all know are more than you can count, wich makes players follow the flavour of the month and not stick to a given game. Not all of course...but many of them.

I can give you a good example if we look at WoW: many of the players that are now complaining that WoW has lost the great core gamers it once had are the same players that said "oh we can have a LGF tool and an auto Q system, that would be great and would save me alot of time". Now people just sit around in central hubs Qing for everything. And what you get: one of the greatest exploration maps in MMO genre completely empty, with empty cities, in a complete dumbed down game.

This from a game that i still call my greatest gaming experience ever, where everyone had to run the world map from top to bottom, where raids where formed just to reach a given dungeon or raid....

...yes its true, you actually had to ride your mount to do stuff...pfff..how sick is that??...

...and what you get now is just a playground for a player base that Blizzard knew at some point they needed to have, because you know, thats where the money is, and thats why you will never get it back again...it isnt profitable.

Well as much as I agree with statement about current LFG - all they really had to do was to modify old one to work cross server and / or remove some of its limitations. That would easily speed up things too while still forcing ppl into some social interactions (no auto invite).

But the truth is that LFG right now is the least problem. There are bigger problems that WoW has such as only instanced endgame, dumbed old content, heirlooms and in general everything granted for just logging in really. Just look at mounts - originally min lvl 40 and quite expensive so even basic mounts required some work. Now everyone has flying dragons for nothing. Same about equipment and as the matter of fact any kind of what was supposed to be a reward for some actions (field / grand marshal set in their original shapes - anyone remembers that?)

  Zorgo

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/05/05
Posts: 2212

Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising?

10/20/13 11:24:55 PM#28

I actually believe that WoW will be around in some form or another for a very long time. Like comic book long time. I think, the rule set will ebb and flow and adjust. 

I think the dumbing down phase is just that; a phase. 

I think eventually they will find a nice solid balance which will solidify its rule set in the same way that chess, or monopoly did. 

Right now its a rough-ish patch (pun intended) - but I think adjustments will be made.

I think we will see dramatic changes to the talent system, potentially the addition of player housing and maybe a graphics/avatar overhaul before too many more subs are lost. 

I think with multiple times the number of subs of any f2p or p2p on the market - they have a lot of time before utter failure could happen. 

They'd have to make bad mistakes for a very long time for the game to go belly up - and I think it isn't likely that will happen.

It may get worse before it gets better, but I think they have time.

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

10/21/13 7:22:01 AM#29
Originally posted by Icewhite
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus

Now this makes me wondering how blizzard will handle this dillema.

By chortling and calling for another truck to transport the dollars to the bank?

Same way they've handled all other "dillema"s.

 

Sorry, I never stop being amazed at how many people feel qualified to tell Blizzard how "ur doing it wrong"...your 30k salary vs. their GNP-level income...

My computer is better than yours.

  sportsfan

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/20/12
Posts: 365

10/23/13 3:30:07 AM#30
Originally posted by Zorgo

I actually believe that WoW will be around in some form or another for a very long time. Like comic book long time. I think, the rule set will ebb and flow and adjust. 

I think the dumbing down phase is just that; a phase. 

I think eventually they will find a nice solid balance which will solidify its rule set in the same way that chess, or monopoly did. 

Right now its a rough-ish patch (pun intended) - but I think adjustments will be made.

I think we will see dramatic changes to the talent system, potentially the addition of player housing and maybe a graphics/avatar overhaul before too many more subs are lost. 

I think with multiple times the number of subs of any f2p or p2p on the market - they have a lot of time before utter failure could happen. 

They'd have to make bad mistakes for a very long time for the game to go belly up - and I think it isn't likely that will happen.

It may get worse before it gets better, but I think they have time.

You know that Blizzard has a problem when a WoW based card game has MUCH more solo challenge these days than a 15 dollar subscription game...

The problem is not so much dumbing down mechanics, the problem is that MMORPG's absolutely have NO solo challenges. They are just grinding mechanics without ANY solo challenge. 

My eyes were opened when I played Diablo3 in hardcore. FAST combat, extremely perma death challenges, hard mobs that could kill you ... ALL absent in WoW these days in solo mode.

 

Like I said: WoW 's Hearthstone is 100 times more challenging and fun ... with 10 minutes OR hour long game play per day...

 

Houston we have a problem ...

 

  Wicoa

Novice Member

Joined: 1/08/07
Posts: 1613

10/23/13 7:27:00 AM#31
Im interested to see what is announced at blizzcon. More of the same? Or will they crank it a notch?
  eccoton

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/30/05
Posts: 1341

10/23/13 11:51:43 AM#32
Originally posted by vmoped

I have to admit I enjoyed WoW up until the change in classes.  I completely disagree with the developer's removal of class customization.  All in all, WoW offers a lot, but the constant dumbing down left me no reason to be class #2346123 with only a handful of powers separating me from the thousands of others.

Cheers!

This is an example of someone like many who do not understand why the change to class customization was a good thing. Giving less but more significant choices did not dumb down the game or the classes. The old class trees with a lot of choices was just an illusion. As it turned out everyone in a specific class was the same. Everyone just went online and found the best build and did that. If you did not have the right picks or you missed one certain skill your toon was no good, so everyone was the same. 

The new tree while many less choice makes your decisions more important and makes say a hunter beastmaster totally different then a hunter marksmen. So within a specific class there are totally different play styles now. I feel this has made the game more interesting. Yes less choices to mull over but your decision is more significant not easier. It is not perfect but it is a step in the right direction. Blizzard took a big chance in doing this for exactly how this poster reacted. They left the game because they felt it was dumbed down when in fact it fostered more diversity.

Sure WOW has changed a lot, I know, I have played since release. No, I do not agree with all the changes but it is better and more fun then ever. The easy way out is to say Blizzard dumbed down WOW. I disagree It has never been a hard game to grasp and play. However it has and still is a hard game to master. That is what makes it so good, easy to play hard to master. The fact is many hardcore players really left WOW because they simply got bored after many years of play. They then have to blame their leaving on someone other then them self, after all they put years into something that is no longer important in their lives. So it is easy to say WOW has been dumbed down instead of "I simply got bored". By doing this they then ease the true feeling, I have spent so much time on something that has no real meaning.

I on the other hand find mmos have meaning to me and are not a waste of time even when I leave a game after years. What they are to me is one of the most enjoyable types of entertainment available for the money. Sometime a game changes and you leave but games like WOW, that players play for years, see and exodus more from boredom then any really significant changes made to game play. SWG-nge being an exception, SOE fundamentally changed the game experience, Blizzard never did that to WOW even with the class changes. So is the dumbing down of WOW counter productive? No WOW was never really dumbed down.

  Ringside

Novice Member

Joined: 9/25/10
Posts: 193

10/24/13 7:48:56 AM#33
Originally posted by spookydom
I would like to see some kind of time locked progression server thing like Everquest did,  with the community voting on what xpac or game feature to release next but starting with vanilla. May seem like going backwards to go forwards but would definitely bring players like me back into the fold I think.

This

  Neo_Viper

Novice Member

Joined: 5/10/13
Posts: 624

If I agreed with you we'd both be wrong.

10/24/13 10:49:26 AM#34
Originally posted by eccoton
Originally posted by vmoped

I have to admit I enjoyed WoW up until the change in classes.  I completely disagree with the developer's removal of class customization.  All in all, WoW offers a lot, but the constant dumbing down left me no reason to be class #2346123 with only a handful of powers separating me from the thousands of others.

Cheers!

This is an example of someone like many who do not understand why the change to class customization was a good thing.

There was a time when hybrids where possible and viable. I remember those times fondly.

Class customization has definitely been seriously dumbed down, and personally dislike it.

My computer is better than yours.

  izzer

Novice Member

Joined: 4/18/06
Posts: 10

10/24/13 12:52:48 PM#35
Hey guys go look up jerzy jay on YouTube . Panda monk :)
  CrazKanuk

Elite Member

Joined: 10/06/09
Posts: 1055

10/24/13 1:21:17 PM#36
Originally posted by Neo_Viper
Originally posted by eccoton
Originally posted by vmoped

I have to admit I enjoyed WoW up until the change in classes.  I completely disagree with the developer's removal of class customization.  All in all, WoW offers a lot, but the constant dumbing down left me no reason to be class #2346123 with only a handful of powers separating me from the thousands of others.

Cheers!

This is an example of someone like many who do not understand why the change to class customization was a good thing.

There was a time when hybrids where possible and viable. I remember those times fondly.

Class customization has definitely been seriously dumbed down, and personally dislike it.

Yeah, while it may be accurate to say that people would research the best builds and use them, I found that I much preferred having the ability to change stuff myself. I would use hybrids frequently to customize a character to my style of play over what the cookie cutter was. I may be in the minority on that, but just because they see a lot of similar builds doesn't mean that removing class customization is a GOOD idea, maybe it means that they need to create MORE choices or make it less clear for the user which is the best. 

 

As far as dungeons/raids go, I still haven't found a game with the same level of polish provided by WoW. I mean in SWTOR I get to kill a f#*&ing Rancor! Which was awesome! However, I have found the majority of other games' dungeon experiences...... lacklustre at best. 

 

As for speed, yeah, you get that everywhere though. Dungeons become repetitive, just like anything else. 

 

I'll be interested to see what Wildstar and TESO bring to the table. I'm eagerly awaiting both of those to see what the difficulty ramp is like. However, I don't think you will see THAT much difference, really. I mean there might be an initial difficulty curve, but they have that with WoW too. Ask anyone who ever ran a heroic raid. I like WoW because I think it does a fairly good job of creating an experience for people seeking a challenge, but also those who want to, idk, play on their laptop in bed or something. 

Crazkanuk

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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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