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World of Warcraft Forum » General Discussion » 5.4 "virtual realms" (or server merges?)

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56 posts found
  VassagoMael

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/09/12
Posts: 524

6/18/13 2:59:12 AM#41
It is basically a server merge, but your server name becomes somewhat of a surname and guild surname so that there is no unique name conflict.

Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
Subscription = Actual content updates!

  rojoArcueid

Elite Member

Joined: 8/13/09
Posts: 5693

"It is double pleasure to deceive the deceiver". - Niccolo Machiavelli

6/18/13 3:03:44 AM#42
Originally posted by slickbizzle
Originally posted by observer

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/10158897/54_PTR_Coming_Soon-6_11_2013

New Feature: Virtual Realms
- Virtual Realms are sets of realms that are fused together, and will behave exactly as if they were one cohesive realm.

-Players on the same Virtual Realm will be able to join guilds, access a single Auction House, join arena teams and raids, as well run dungeons or group up to complete quests.

-Players belonging to the same Virtual Realm will have a (#) symbol next to their name.

 

Is this another way of merging servers, or merging the population?  Either way, it's a good idea.  Most server populations feel empty while leveling, which is to be expected with an 8 year old MMO.  I suppose cross-realm helped this, but now i wonder what will happen to server names? 

 

 

It's server mergers.   It's a good idea.  Kind of sucks they made the announcement after they milked $12.50 a pop from people with their sale.   

 

 

virtual realms are set of realms that will work as one big server but you will still log in through your own server, not actually every server in the game merging to one. So transfers sale for $12.50 was actually good and i hope they do it again.

I think the way VR will work is there will be 1 huge VR per each battlegroup. That would make sense

  sportsfan

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/20/12
Posts: 382

6/18/13 3:09:57 AM#43
Originally posted by expresso
A traditional server merge would be easy to do by comparision, blizzard have obvoiusly invested time, money and technology into this *unique* solution to a common problem for ageing MMO's.  But this is Blizzard and this is MMORPG.com so no credit is due, they either stole it, copied it or whatever.

So correct.

BTW. This solution is not only for "ageing" MMO's, because all newly launched mmorpg's have this decrease in pop problem after X months of launch... on EACH of their servers.

Of course not all new mmorpgs will have the needed technology to make it happen seamlessly:

- phasing is needed, CRZ is needed, background loading world is needed.

As you said: Blizzard only steals ...

(I guess the next new MMO will just add a loading screen for an instance to sell it as open world play with pre loading of players coming from different servers - the kids will not even notice it).

 

Trash talking Blizzard, Apple, Microsoft, Xbox, it is a national sport for some. And in the end we play games that hang 4 minutes after start up ... (bought Cycling Manager 2012 ... 20 Euro down the drain)....

 

 

 

  Nitth

Elite Member

Joined: 7/29/10
Posts: 3346

Magic Propels my Rolly Chair.

6/18/13 3:22:35 AM#44


Originally posted by sportsfan
They even achieved it on a 9 year old Legacy system.

Now, That factually cannot be true.

Its well documented that wow's rendering system has had several upgrades over the years to include such features such as directx 11.

However, I'm willing to bet the logical part of the engine had a steady stream of development right up until today.

In short: It's not as old as it looks.


TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development

  gervaise1

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/07
Posts: 1364

6/18/13 11:38:36 AM#45
Originally posted by sportsfan
Originally posted by expresso
A traditional server merge would be easy to do by comparision, blizzard have obvoiusly invested time, money and technology into this *unique* solution to a common problem for ageing MMO's.  But this is Blizzard and this is MMORPG.com so no credit is due, they either stole it, copied it or whatever.

So correct.

A traditional server merge would have to address issues arising from people having characters on two or more realms being "traditionally merged". This solution avoids pretty much everything except duplicate character names - a know issue - and cluster  load issues. Provides the flexibility to split clusters in the future as well.

At the end of the day it all comes down to maintaining population.

I do agree with the comment about this announcement should have come at the same time as the transfer realm sale. Yes the transfer service may still be the best option for some people - but others might have waited.

  ChromeBallz

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/31/04
Posts: 275

6/30/13 11:42:35 AM#46


Originally posted by sportsfan

Originally posted by Muke

Originally posted by rojo6934 Obviously the WoW engine hasnt reached its limit like some people say in order to bash it a bit more lol. Blizz keep surprising people with new stuff on the "same ol" engine.
You can only do so much to a game engine, don't expect wonders and yes, even with the latest technologies, it still looks very dated, but hey, as long as you love it, who cares?  
Dated technlogy ? LOL

Name me ONE other landscape based MMORPG that regroups players in REAL time and SEAMLESS in open world play (without loading screens) from different servers.

 

You can't name even ONE.


Tera and The Secret World (which has already been doing what WoW is not introducing btw) are two games that immediately come to mind.

Also funny you should mention loading screens. Because WoW doesn't have any. Except when you're loading different continents. And dungeons. And the game itself. And when you teleport/hearth from the same continent. But otherwise no loading screens, no.

LOL

Also, server/networking tech are not the same as graphics tech. If it was just server tech, EVE gives every single other game a run for their money. TBH, even BF3 servers are more impressive than WoW servers given the amount of data they have to process and synchronize.

Also, graphics tech doesn't influence networking whatsoever. If it does you have the hallmark of a terrible, horrible game engine.

Playing: EVE
Played (more than 1 month): WoW, Tera, GW2, L2, WAR, AoC, DnL, GW, LotRO, EQ2, TOR, CoH, STO, TSW
Tried (trial, up to 1 month): EQ, UO, AO, EnB, TCoS, Fury, Ryzom, EU, DDO, TR, RF, CO, Aion, VG

  strangiato2112

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 9/21/12
Posts: 1566

6/30/13 12:46:08 PM#47
Originally posted by VassagoMael
It is basically a server merge, but your server name becomes somewhat of a surname and guild surname so that there is no unique name conflict.

Yup, its server merges without the major drawbacks to server merges.

No lost names, no lost guild names, no issues with characters on both realms

 

5.4 really seems like a landmark patch.  VRs, Flex raids, proving grounds, a large multi-wing raid, and this is the most interesting thing to me:

 

  • Timeless Isle is another experiment, similar to Battlefield Barrens but with more content. There are dynamic events, some really difficult mobs, more rare spawns, world bosses, treasure chests, pet battle things, and lots of other things to do. There won't be a central hub where you go to do things, but activities will be spread out and hidden all over the isle.
  sportsfan

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/20/12
Posts: 382

6/30/13 6:47:46 PM#48
Originally posted by ChromeBallz

 


Originally posted by sportsfan

Originally posted by Muke

Originally posted by rojo6934 Obviously the WoW engine hasnt reached its limit like some people say in order to bash it a bit more lol. Blizz keep surprising people with new stuff on the "same ol" engine.
You can only do so much to a game engine, don't expect wonders and yes, even with the latest technologies, it still looks very dated, but hey, as long as you love it, who cares?  
Dated technlogy ? LOL

 

Name me ONE other landscape based MMORPG that regroups players in REAL time and SEAMLESS in open world play (without loading screens) from different servers.

 

You can't name even ONE.


 

Tera and The Secret World (which has already been doing what WoW is not introducing btw) are two games that immediately come to mind.

 

Bullshit. In WOW patch 5.4 the players from different realms are regrouped in REAL time in an open seamless background loading world without a loading screen in sight.

Seamless as was already seen by the phasing technique used in WOW since a few years.

 

Neither Tera or TSW have this REAL TIME clustered server technique. And even worse these are games loaded with a zillion loading screens. Just like GW2: you want to play on another server:?  you log into that server (and get a massive number of loading screens there too).

In WOW the player doesn't even know he is put into a seamless background loading open world with players from other servers ... until he views their names.

 

... it is a fabulous new technique and if I were Blizzard I would put a patent upon it, just like seamless phasing.

LOL (I can type that too btw). As to loading up dungeons: I am talking open world background loading between zones, like ... flying and riding between 4 different open world zones and standing on a cross road between these things.

 

---

As to Virtual Realms: these mechanics will now be used across a fixed group of realms, which means the potential number of players will be bigger than any single realm can hold. CRZ within this group of realms will be used to populate all world zones (grouping or splitting where necessary): all seamless and without loading screens for OPEN WORLD PLAY and allowing these clustered realms to trade and have guild play etc ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12401

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

6/30/13 7:57:53 PM#49
Originally posted by sportsfan

Merging servers: player numbers are limited to the maximum capacity of each newly formed merged server.

Virtual realms: player numbers is unlimited to the maximum capacity of a single server.

 

---

 

The technique Blizzard is using is NOT new: you already had Battlegroups for PVP play in Battlegrounds in 2006.

What IS new is that the regrouping of realms into virtual realms is combined/managed in the open world...

 

So instead of playing with 3k-4K players on just one (full) (merged) server, you play with 30K or more at the same time.

So how would they handle that MANY number of players?

The new CRZ kicks in: real time open world play with players coming from different (grouped) servers can now be used to regroup these players ... and what most forgot ... to UNGROUP these players in zones that become too populated into different sections.

 

With VR you assure ALL world zones of ALL 1-90 levels are populated and you have more than enough players (30K or more) to man all content all of the time.

CRZ was just a testing of this new technique where they put players from different realms into the same world in real time (no loading screens).

 

---

 

TLDR: Merging servers = old technique that didn't solve the pop problems for all offered content. Virtual servers = older technique mixed with NEW CRZ technique to populate ALL content ALL of the time within the GROUP of  clustered realms (servers).

An MMORPG with this technical angle offers eternal populated worlds. The tric was to make it seamless across servers in open world zones.

In the old merged server system you had to redo a merge every time again after X months or years, in virtual realms you just add servers to the already existent cluster (nobody needs to move anything).

Sounds like the system Earth and Beyond used for their starter zones back in 2002.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  ghostfaeries

Novice Member

Joined: 3/26/08
Posts: 86

6/30/13 11:23:15 PM#50
Originally posted by MajiinX
I can't express how happy I am about this. I am on an almost dead server and can't find anybody to do arena with and the auction house is very scarce hard to find buyers for things and most items up on the AH are retardedly expensive.

This is exactly how it is on one of my toons pve servers, and I'm sure this is how most if not all low pop servers are. The economy is ridiculous and I don't blame anyone for wanting to transfer. Low pop realms do have an advantage though. Like for hunting rares or daily quests. I get them done 10 times faster.

  Sukiyaki

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/09
Posts: 1310

7/02/13 12:16:12 PM#51
Originally posted by VassagoMael
It is basically a server merge, but your server name becomes somewhat of a surname and guild surname so that there is no unique name conflict.

This. It works on the same basic principles of CRZ.

Its clustering player based on realms together creating sort of realmcluster (character, not server) on reduced physical server infrastructure (reduced, since capacities are already mostly unused due to player decline). CRZ allocates you as a player to another realms server, if the zone population is low enough it can fit into another servers zone without hitting that ones zone limit. Now just expand this to scale of realm and assignment of an entire realms playerbase to another realm server, instead of just the player of a single single zone.

The limitations of both zones and game server will of course remain the same as currently, as the system has no relevance to the technical limits and they are not magically going to shoot up. In fact bluepost have been confirming queues will continue to exists, which are still caused due to the old limits, debunking the baseless "mega server" hype and myths popping up sporadically..

Think. Instead of running realm A with 200/4500 slots and realm B with 100/4500, A's player will simply be redistributed to B's server. Effectively the same as a generic merge with generic server prefixes to names, expect it is supposed to work on the fly. Though the extends of automatization and regrouping is unkown. Realm based playercluster sharing one and temporarily more server depending on population dynamics, could still be hard set groups like battlegroups.

  sportsfan

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/20/12
Posts: 382

7/03/13 2:12:03 AM#52

So wrong.

With the above 2 posts you see people have no clue about this revolutionary technique.

 

The fact Blizzard regroups say 5 servers, it simply means you  have 5X the population that can play together. NOT because they magically grow the capacity of a single server, but by the fact each world zone can be populated to the fullest.

----- > To understand this you have to abandon the concept of single realm play.

 

CRZ is used in two ways: populate throughout the new constructed virtual realm each world zone AND split zones when they would become too crowded. Q&A has been very clear about that.

So the sum of the players is not the limit of ONE server. The sum of the players is now how many servers are involved and how CRZ regroups them per zone.

 

Meaning regrouping 10 servers = 10 times the total player numbers spread over all world content in WOW...

CRZ was already dynamite in that you had a real time seamless (no loading screen) open world regrouping of players over different servers (realms), but now some of these servers are clustered into a new group, called the virtual realm, that allows full playing operations (AH, trading, Guild play, casual group play).

 

So the virtual realm is playing with X times the number of X servers involded, since the open world play, AH, Guild play, forming of groups is now independant of the single realm.

The sole function of the old realm is simply a log on utility. All the rest is done on the virtual realm through that magnificent technoloy called real time cross realm play.

 

Not seen in any mmorpg btw (because the VR is based on unique Blizzard-only designs: seamless phasing and seamless cross server play.

  Sukiyaki

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/09
Posts: 1310

7/03/13 5:30:24 PM#53

I wouldn't expect you to step back from your latest fad to proactively misinform the public to lessen the PR damage from merges, even when you are contradicting official information, with the usual pattern of incoherent "conclusions" pulled from the usual mishmash of unrelated information, misleading halftruths, repetitively referenced unsourced "sources", fabrications and baseless personal claims. What else to expect from the usual damage control department. A few lies more to the twist merging down server into a "revolutionary mega upgrade" seem to be just part of daily business.

I wont throw the accusation to be clueless about virtual realms or CRZ back. I am certain you know what you write is wrong. As you just repeated yourself with the same incoherent and baseless copy/pasta as before, lets instead look what Blizzards employees actually said about virtual realms. Of course we can't expect the company to refrain from sugar coating the merges either. They too try their best to sell it as a "feature", but at least they can't blatantly lie and have to fear consequences. They can't just switch to another account and get rid of their history. We have to read between the lines of the PR conform bits of information.

"CM Nethaera" regarding virtual realms:  "I can't answer about specific realms or how they will be connected (or not) currently, but I can say that we're very aware of the need to balance between a having a healthy population and ending up with queues. We will want to make sure that people can get in"  - this is a nicer way to say servers will suffer from queues if the sum of player from merged server goes beyond the servers limits (i.e. merging two server with +50% population capacity reached, this is not about zones but server, zones have no queues) and contradicts baseless claims limits would magically stack/multiply, Its just merging  the player into a single server or splitting the player back to different server again. If the limitations where to stack/multiply when merging, Blizzard wouldn't need to be worried about server queues popping up when merging the wrong or too many realms if the cap where to go up. But they openly admit they do.

5.4 Patchnotes: "Virtual Realms are sets of realms that are fused together and will behave exactly as if they were one cohesive realm" - no word about "server" or "servercluster" anywhere, only "realms acting and appearing like one realm." Never said the "fusion" could apply to realms exceeding capacity of a single server in sum or the "server" would actually be fused or working together. This description so far could apply to every other MMOs server after a player merge happened as well.

Blizzard News: Cross-Realm Zones Coming to Beta:  ...though if you’re not in the same home realm, you won’t be able to see each other if you’re  in separate zone instances.... .What about zones that are already overpopulated, like new race starting zones?.. Players on that realm will be split among those copies in order to alleviate problems due to overpopulation. Players won’t normally see or interact with those on a different instance of their zone,   - this older Q&A confirms how CRZ really works (or rather how it doesn't), CRZ does not affect the existing zones or server at all (aside from lag lol). It affects where player play.  Either on another existing server, instead of theirs or on another separate launched  instances of the zone. Player even change IP when switching to another servers zone. If as you claim either virtual realms is based on CRZ, the player are allocated to other sever if the server are underpopulated. But server are not clustered. If overpopulated another completely separate instance needs to be launched (like an overflow server or channel in GW2 or other games)  but it has no effect on the servers capacities it has been launched on.

 

Example for cross realm zone live play:

10/200 zone on server A + 90/200 zone on server B = 100/200 zone server B

Player are from A reconnected to server B. Next to IP of course all zone events, timers, spawns,rulesets etc change to that of server B.  The gameserver A and B are not merged, clustered, connected or anything similar by CRZ. The player are relocated from A to B. Zone limits stay the same. Server are unaffected just like their capacities.

Example for virtual realm live play using CRZ based on all currently available information.

100/4500 realm server A + 1500/4500 realm server B = 1600/4500 virtual realm on server B.

Player are from A reconnected to server B. No magic mega server multiplying infinite caps.

In principle either you you play on A alone, on A with all of B or B with all of A, but not on some AB merge.

Later is not the principle of CRZ. Nor a principle Blizzard implied how the virtual realms would work.

 

Server related limits per realm stay the same. Zone limits stay the same. (Well of course they can't just "magically change those and never claimed they would even try).  No "server cluster" mentioned(neither CRZ has ever clustered game server, nor is VR supposed to be). No "mega server" myth mentioned. Looks like my word stands. I do not see need to take my words back, until Blizzard actually starts to tell a different story them self, rather than fans in their name, whether it might be yours (technically practically impossible) or another.

 

 

  sportsfan

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/20/12
Posts: 382

7/03/13 6:07:35 PM#54

I am not even going to answer the above.

Only to say this very simple fact:

"Players that will play within one virtual realm (consisting of a group of several single realms) will be able to play together as if they belong to one realm."

Be that by trade, by guild play, by grouping, by open world play.

1000 + 3000 +4000 + 500 +200 = 8700 players total that can and will play/trade together instead of 200 or 4000 now.

 

--- There is no longer a single realm play nor is there a "super server" for that matter ---

As everything will be clustered. If you would know anything about clustered servers and load balancing, you would not type the above at all.

 

If you can't live with the fact that world zones in WOW will be much more populated than in the past, I suggest you take another hobby. I logged in on WOW recently and was overwhelmed by the number of players around Goldshire. Not seen in 6 years. I was taken for a ride on a dual dragon across several zones from someone from a different server.

It is quite clear this mechanic works perfectly these days and now they put a more structured play behind it to allow trading/gouping/guild play.

Of course the above is a revolution in MMORPG land and you are acting like a child anyway.

Who cares even if you don't play the game anyway? When was the last time you logged into this game because you would see the massive populated zones these days.

 

Does that hurt or what ?

 

  Sukiyaki

Elite Member

Joined: 8/14/09
Posts: 1310

7/04/13 4:50:41 PM#55

Yeah yeah, right after you took one of those usual "seamless open worlds" flights from Kalimdor to Stranglethorn on your magic, physical laws defying, lag less, bug less, any ways perfect and ever full and overflowing "mega bollocks server cluster".

Cool story like always. ;) Cant beat the "invisible nameless perfect wow server friend, where everything just happens to happen perfectly suiting any argument" stories. ...

But beware! Think twice before trying to misinform others for the sake of you deity! All your false promises and impossible to met expectations might do more damage to Blizzard, than the plain honest truth. Remember the CRZ disaster and the Cataclysmic "dynamic open world event" joke?  To think I'm actually defending Blizzard against false libel here!

Enjoy your merges!

  Kevyne-Shandris

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/10/08
Posts: 1980

You can't † BURY † ¤¤ Holy Paladins ¤¤ As we will always __.- ASCEND -.__

7/04/13 6:37:28 PM#56
Originally posted by ChromeBallz

 


Originally posted by jpnz
If your server can now accomodate 2x players than before (due to tech), it makes sense to merge two servers.

 

EVE is on one server so it'll be interesting if this is taken to that logical conclusion as well.

One giant mega-server for WoW... that'll be the day I actually re-sub, just to say 'I was there'.


 

EVE doesn't have instances though - There's only one 'copy' of any given place. With such a server merge you'd still have a massive amount of instances since the game world simply isn't designed to hold hundreds of thousands of people in the same spot.

EvE can't even hold more than 400 player wars (it's more like 200 at best, since multiboxing is tolerated in combat there) without rebooting the Tranquility cluster. -_- All this talk about one world servers, and a war between TEST and Goons causes reboots. Look at Jita (EvE's Stormwind) capped at 2100 players in the zone. The New Caldari event last month, again capped. The nerf to missiles because of the lag. Now they have Time dilation in an effort to not overload it's servers. This is with but 29k players online (rarely reaches about 50k) in a game that says it has 500k subscribers.

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