Originally posted by Azrile

2.7M is lower than I was expecting (3-3.1), but I think it was more because of Cata than MoP itself.  They made a couple of huge mistakes in Cata.   Like many people have said, no game will ever kill WOW, it will kill itself.  They spent way too many resources revamping the 1-60 zones in Cata and did not have nearly enough endgame content for non-raiders.  They fixed that in MoP, but it will be hard to tell that to people who quit.

But I think the GW2 debate is over.  WOW is a subscription game, you have to pay $15 per month to play it, and it still has twice as many box sales as GW2 and is double on Xfire now also.   I think the sales of MoP and xfire have shown that GW2 really did not affect MoP as much as just the loss of subs from Cata did.

We will see, I hope the devs learned their lessons in Cata.  They need to add constant updates and 5mans  for non-raiders.

Nice blunt denial here.

Even worldwide WoW didnt sell "twice" yet as GW2 did just in the US and EU. (and dont pretend China is the rest of the world). They didnt even sell 50% more. 2.7 M is not "twice" as much as 2.0 M as several WoW fanbois in denial want to squueze it recently. GW2 sold 2 Million. Thats where it is now. Dont try to use fuzzy "math" and assumptions that WoW is going to do this and that in the next week. It didnt.

After all the glorfying "4 no ... 5 Million sales in the first 24 hours!!!!! double of GW2 on the first day!!!" where busted by reality now you should look at youself and admit you just where and still are unrealistically optimistic, instead of being stubborn of continouing to spout the same nonsense, even when reality just slapped hard into you face..

On xfire WoW has not even 30% more user than xfire. 9,390 user  is not "twice" as much as 7,452 even still close to its peak.

Meanwhile back in reality not even MOP and massive ads could bring WoW back to where it was (+10k) before the release of GW2 just a month ago. In fact WoW even with MOP is 10% down from before GW2 released.

 

If anything you should admit complete failure of any of your previous predictions and claims in face of reality. Its one thing to be a rabid fanboy and optimistic. Its another to spout blunt lies and missinformation.

Originally posted by Azrile

2.7M is lower than I was expecting (3-3.1), but I think it was more because of Cata than MoP itself.  They made a couple of huge mistakes in Cata.   Like many people have said, no game will ever kill WOW, it will kill itself.  They spent way too many resources revamping the 1-60 zones in Cata and did not have nearly enough endgame content for non-raiders.  They fixed that in MoP, but it will be hard to tell that to people who quit.

But I think the GW2 debate is over.  WOW is a subscription game, you have to pay $15 per month to play it, and it still has twice as many box sales as GW2 and is double on Xfire now also.   I think the sales of MoP and xfire have shown that GW2 really did not affect MoP as much as just the loss of subs from Cata did.

We will see, I hope the devs learned their lessons in Cata.  They need to add constant updates and 5mans  for non-raiders.

 

? I think you're wrong on various accounts, it sounds more like a wishful thinking thing from your side, but correct me if I'm wrong. The sales of GW2 is 2 mln, MoP sales is 2.7 mln - btw, this is the 1st expansion where they don't mention 1st day sales, and still MoP 1st week sales hardly equals even tBC 1st day sales (2.4 mln) and WotLK 1st day sales (2.8 mln). But this hardly seems the double sales difference you're mentioning, 2 mln vs 2.7 mln.

Also, the double Xfire numbers is wrong. Sure, ofc when an MMO or expansion just launches the number of hours played per day will be stellar, but when you look at the actual amount of players, then it's 9,400 for WoW vs 7,500 for GW2. So, no double here too. And this is supposed to be representing 10 mln WoW subs, ofc GW2 won't have that many sales. Even if the Xfire figures only represent the non-Chinese players, supposedly 4-5 mln, then the diff with GW2 in Xfire is still fairly small.

Btw, this number of WoW players in Xfire right after MoP launch, 9.4k, is lower than WoW had mid August before GW2's launch, 11.3k. I think that's telling.

Sure, WoW will be doing fine for a long, long time still to come. But let's keep it real here. It has entered the next stage of its product lifecycle. There's nothing wrong or shameful to it, it's natural and happens all the time. Doesn't mean one bit that WoW can't be enjoyed for years to come still for those who like it, after all, EQ is still around too.

Originally posted by smh_alot? I think you're wrong on various accounts, it sounds more like a wishful thinking thing from your side, but correct me if I'm wrong. The sales of GW2 is 2 mln, MoP sales is 2.7 mln - btw, this is the 1st expansion where they don't mention 1st day sales, and still MoP 1st week sales hardly equals even tBC 1st day sales (2.4 mln) and WotLK 1st day sales (2.8 mln). But this hardly seems the double sales difference you're mentioning, 2 mln vs 2.7 mln.
Also, the double Xfire numbers is wrong. Sure, ofc when an MMO or expansion just launches the number of hours played per day will be stellar, but when you look at the actual amount of players, then it's 9,400 for WoW vs 7,500 for GW2. So, no double here too. And this is supposed to be representing 10 mln WoW subs, ofc GW2 won't have that many sales. Even if the Xfire figures only represent the non-Chinese players, supposedly 4-5 mln, then the diff with GW2 in Xfire is still fairly small.
Btw, this number of WoW players in Xfire right after MoP launch, 9.4k, is lower than WoW had mid August before GW2's launch, 11.3k. I think that's telling.

Sure, WoW will be doing fine for a long, long time still to come. But let's keep it real here. It has entered the next stage of its product lifecycle. There's nothing wrong or shameful to it, it's natural and happens all the time. Doesn't mean one bit that WoW can't be enjoyed for years to come still for those who like it, after all, EQ is still around too.

It is not exactly true, GW2 announced their numbers when they hit 2 million copies after just over 2 weeks, MOPs are from 1 week. Then again, GW2s digital sales were closed down a while there.

But frankly is GW2 just out while Wow is well established, so GW2s first expansion against whatever Wow releases next is really a lot more interesting.

Right now MOP did sell better but not as much better as many here say. I do think however that Wow finally got a competitor and that is actually very good both for fans of Wow and GW2. Competition means that both companies will have to work harder for our subs. Wow have been on a high pidestal far too long for its own good and even the most hardcore Wow fan should realize that Blizzard will perform better when they are up against someone than by themselves.

 Most innovation happens in Wartime after all. Trust me, this is good for the players, maybe not for Activision who have to put more effort and money into Wow but for the players.

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Originally posted by Keylogger
They do not have 10m subs.

They're lying.

China having 6m paying 5ct an hour does not count.

Given the mass influx of competition (Tera, TSW, GW2, Torchlight, PoE and a few other "major" titles) there's no way in hell MoP will sell even as well as Cataclysm did, especially given how burnout all ex-WOW players are and the sour taste Cataclysm & D3 itself left it most of our collective mouths.

I'm guessing 1.5 tops, peaking within two weeks of release, maybe 3m by the end of 13's first quarter. Subs will drop to 25% below current levels by the second quarter of 2013.

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Well hell I got pretty close.

Considering that WoW already has a massive player base that absolutely must buy the expansion in order to continue progressing in end game, much like any other mmo, it is pretty silly to compare the sales to the number of people who purchased GW2. Honestly, the fact that GW2 has even come close to MoP sales is pretty humiliating for Blizzard. Blizzard will be singing a different toon next year when they start losing people again. They already are probably, considering they did not state any new numbers in the quarterly call afaik and simply restated what they said about subs back in September. They have probably dropped since that announcement. The quarter ended around the last time they said "we are back up to over a 10 million subs", so the fact is that they did not count the last couple of months. Not to mention that they lost alot of annual passes in October. 

I don't even think these games are comparable accept for by popularity in mmorpg. This subject is as non congruent as these two games.