I think a major reason for the "greens are better than your old epics" is that new players, levelling up, will not stop and do multiple raids to get the purple gear to do the first zone in Outland, repeat to do the first zone in Northrend, etc. They will do a few dungeons here and there, maybe get some blues and purples, but will mostly just level past the vast bulk of previous "max level" content, and arrive at Cataclysm's level 80 zones with a mix of items, all "good enough" to let them fight the level 80 content on its own terms and start earning the properly-scaled items. If the "new" green items are inferior to last expansion's raid items, some players may feel "forced" to go back and raid for the "right" gear. This way, with each expansion, players who exhausted all the old top tier content and players who just levelled into the "new" content are on an equal footing, both when it comes to PUGs and PVP. If last-expansion purples were better than new expansion greens, you'd have a hard time finding a group if you hadn't done the prior content to its conclusion.

well I mean are we talking level 264 epics or 200 epics, I couls see greens being item level 220 or so, but an item level 285 green just does kinda suck, I think the epics should last you at least till after the first zone, being replaced with blues, then again, there are only five levels this expansion.

I'm not saying OMG I'm quitting cause of this, just saying, this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Vlt-lpVOY

I don't mind the idea of the greens being that good in comparison to the raiding gear. You eventually were going to have to replace it, why not sooner than later. What lizard wrote makes sense as well, what about the people who want to level from 1-85 without having to stop and raid old raids just to be able to do the newer areas. I did raid, and I have a decent gear score, and I really don't mind that my gear is getting replaced. Everyone looks the same now for each class, and the greens will just change that up a little until the 85 raiding.

The resetting of raid gear is the only good thing about raising the level cap.

When they started raising it, I knew the game was just going to go downhill.

And it did. 

Not a fan of treadmills.

That's really not a very glowing review.  "More of the same", "less exploration and more handholding", "obvious reset button".  The only good things you had to say were the gankings... and seeing Geddon around.  And I'm assuming that if any of the old MC bosses are killable, it's probably in solo quests.  Oh yeah... that'll satisfy the nostalgia.

I haven't looked back since quitting more than a year ago.  Cataclysm won't change that.

I dunno why you guys set yourselves up for dissappointment like this. With the recent track record of the way blizzard keeps their mules bringing in more cash. This should not be a surprise at all, obviousely they are gonna make your gear useless from the start or on par with the lowbie gear.  It's a double edge sword. On one side it helps people who didn't have the time to get that epic gear to catch up only to fall behind again when they reach max level while the players who spend their 8 hours a day have to continue the trend to get this gear so they can do it all over again....

WoW is a good game but ffs I don't understand why people play it. I played the game during vanilla and after BC launched I dropped the game like the bad habbit that it is. I'm currently playing casually other games and dealing with life, it's way more rewarding to have fun in my opinion then to sit their like others said on this "treadmill" that Blizzard is setting up over and over and over again.

I think MMORPGs is a genre that is doomed to repeat itself untill the consumers break the mold and show with their money what they want. Which is obviousely not happening because the consumers have the attention span of a squirrel and the attitude of a 7 year old denied of candy.

But I guess to each man his own. Just hope that 10 or 20 years down the road when you look back at when you were in your prime and looked at yourself spending god awfull amounts of time on this game, that you have no regrets. That you can tell your grand kids of this game and not feel like the biggest tool worse then the ones on MTV.

Originally posted by Morgaren

well I mean are we talking level 264 epics or 200 epics, I couls see greens being item level 220 or so, but an item level 285 green just does kinda suck, I think the epics should last you at least till after the first zone, being replaced with blues, then again, there are only five levels this expansion.

I'm not saying OMG I'm quitting cause of this, just saying, this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Vlt-lpVOY

The Dude!

/bows

Jeff Bridges rules.

On topic, though...

I wonder if the reviewer got to see anything about a cave entrance that looks strikingly similar to the one for Onyxia's Lair. I was checking out the Mt Hyjaal area in the WoW Map viewer, and noticed that Onyxia's Lair seemed to be located off that area. It's down at the end of a deep ravine.

Was curious if that cave is still there, if it had been turned into something else, or perhaps removed completely.

I had to check.. sure enough, I am on the MMORPG.com forums, the only place in the universe games like AOC and Warhammer get rated higher than WOW.

A couple points

1.  WOW has 11.5 million subscribers -  Do not expect them to EVER change their basic gameplay.  When a game is folding and closing servers (ie War and AOC), then you can expect them to change gameplay drastically.  Why would a game that is going strong suddenly do a major and drastic change.  Cata is going to sell 4 million copies the first 24 hours it is released, similar to WotLK.  You really expect Blizzard to mess with the formula that got them there?

2.  World pvp -  Are you kidding.. if you read these forums, you would think world pvp doesn't exist.  And now the reviewer is compaining about getting 'ganked' by someone who is 2 levels higher than him.  This is exactly what pvp players want. They want pvp to happen in zones that are appropriate for their level.  Imagine that, people who are doing quests in a zone are actually fighting with people from the opposite faction doing the same quests.  Praise the old Gods, world pvp is back!! And not the crap where lvl 60 characters are overrunning a lvl 20 zone (southshore).

3.  Gear reset -  This has always been debatable.  It comes down to two choices.  Do you want players to level for 3 weeks and every time they turn in a quest, they never even have to look at the quest rewards because nothing will be an upgrade? Or do you want players to upgrade their gear right away?  My understanding is that the best gear in the game right now will last you until level 83, or you get blues from running non-heroic instances.  I am not sure the ilevel of the reviewer (probably 200), but most players have ilvl 232 gear at least, which won't be replaced in the first zones. ( Also to point out, My Hyjal and Vash are both 'starter' zones in Cata - they are the same level similar to Borean and Howling in WotLK).

I think Blizzard did it right with the gear upgrades.  People with raid gear will have an advantage while leveling through the entry zones, but they will also have to actually check the quest rewards, because there is a chance there could be an upgrade.  By the second zone, there will be sporadic upgrades and a lot of 'maybes' because of the mastery stat.   As a raider with ilvl 250+ gear, I am so happy that I don't have to level all the way to 85 without getting an gear upgrades or without being able to be excited about quest rewards.

So they name it Cataclysm and say everything changes, but the more I read about it the more it looks like it's going to be a lot more of the same.

Every now and again I start to feel a little nostolgia for this game, then I start looking at the WoW forums and into addons and what they make you do for gear these days and it all comes flooding back in why I stopped in the first place and that stops me from going back.

I'm still on the fence whether or not I'll bother trying it this time around and if it's really going to be a lot more of the same odds are good I'll pass.

Originally posted by Morgaren

well I mean are we talking level 264 epics or 200 epics, I couls see greens being item level 220 or so, but an item level 285 green just does kinda suck, I think the epics should last you at least till after the first zone, being replaced with blues, then again, there are only five levels this expansion.

I'm not saying OMG I'm quitting cause of this, just saying, this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Vlt-lpVOY

If for a month every post on this site ended with a dude highlight vid there will still be plenty to left to watch. Bravo to you sir and +1.

I don't know what's everyone so worked up about. The epix u got will probably take you to at least half way to lvl 85. By that time you should be getting into dungeons and getting blues, which will take you to 85, when you will start doing raids again. Is it so hard to follow?

Would you prefer that you missed all the really cool dungeons and skipped right to the raids? Is that what people want?

Everything you said only makes me glad that I am no longer playing this game. It is heartbreaking to see this happen to the world.

Originally posted by Azrile

I had to check.. sure enough, I am on the MMORPG.com forums, the only place in the universe games like AOC and Warhammer get rated higher than WOW.

A couple points

1.  WOW has 11.5 million subscribers -  Do not expect them to EVER change their basic gameplay.  When a game is folding and closing servers (ie War and AOC), then you can expect them to change gameplay drastically.  Why would a game that is going strong suddenly do a major and drastic change.  Cata is going to sell 4 million copies the first 24 hours it is released, similar to WotLK.  You really expect Blizzard to mess with the formula that got them there?

2.  World pvp -  Are you kidding.. if you read these forums, you would think world pvp doesn't exist.  And now the reviewer is compaining about getting 'ganked' by someone who is 2 levels higher than him.  This is exactly what pvp players want. They want pvp to happen in zones that are appropriate for their level.  Imagine that, people who are doing quests in a zone are actually fighting with people from the opposite faction doing the same quests.  Praise the old Gods, world pvp is back!! And not the crap where lvl 60 characters are overrunning a lvl 20 zone (southshore).

3.  Gear reset -  This has always been debatable.  It comes down to two choices.  Do you want players to level for 3 weeks and every time they turn in a quest, they never even have to look at the quest rewards because nothing will be an upgrade? Or do you want players to upgrade their gear right away?  My understanding is that the best gear in the game right now will last you until level 83, or you get blues from running non-heroic instances.  I am not sure the ilevel of the reviewer (probably 200), but most players have ilvl 232 gear at least, which won't be replaced in the first zones. ( Also to point out, My Hyjal and Vash are both 'starter' zones in Cata - they are the same level similar to Borean and Howling in WotLK).

I think Blizzard did it right with the gear upgrades.  People with raid gear will have an advantage while leveling through the entry zones, but they will also have to actually check the quest rewards, because there is a chance there could be an upgrade.  By the second zone, there will be sporadic upgrades and a lot of 'maybes' because of the mastery stat.   As a raider with ilvl 250+ gear, I am so happy that I don't have to level all the way to 85 without getting an gear upgrades or without being able to be excited about quest rewards.

 

 WTH are you talking about?!?  Don't get your fanboi underoos in a bunch.

1.  The number of subscribers does not equal good gaming decisions.

2.  The reviewer was not complaining.  He says a couple time that he accepts his choice of server types and wouldn't change it.  Just that he forgot what it was like.  Additionally, I wouldn't say "world pvp is back".  It will be there only while leveling, and then it's back to group finder, insta-porting to dungeons, and just plain never leaving the safe cities.  World pvp remains dead.

3.  In WOTLK, my lvl 70 arena gear didn't need replacing till about level 74.  This seemed right to me.  If the raid gear is immediately trumped by lvl 80 greens, that is a waste.  Those with great current raid gear should see the benefit of it being stronger than the new greens.  Your conclusion paragraph I agree with. I would just like some level of confirmation that this is actually the case.

i fully  support " gear  reset" in all mmorpg when an xpac comes out.it encourages new blood and means you can roll alts and not worry about been too under geared.raiders anyhow will change their gear very soon .EQ2 does not really do this meaning the best quest items you get are not even close to old raid gear 10 levels lower.maybe this is why eq2 has much less players trying out the game.

Time gnomes... 11 expansions later and 100 more levels added... it just continues with "nothing" new >.<

little known fact. a hyjal map has always been in the files on your machine.

we used to enter it by climbing over mountains, but later could only view it with 3rd party software. emerald dream is there, too.

I'm sure there are still youtube videos of it.

Originally posted by Kaelano1

little known fact. a hyjal map has always been in the files on your machine.

we used to enter it by climbing over mountains, but later could only view it with 3rd party software. emerald dream is there, too.

I'm sure there are still youtube videos of it.

More like widely known >_>

Since there are only 5 levels in this expansion and several stats are being completely removed from gear, a hard-reset (your purps are teh sukk nao) was very much in order.

5 levels it approximately 2-3 days game time, cube pendant, there may be less even

Originally posted by Azrile

I had to check.. sure enough, I am on the MMORPG.com forums, the only place in the universe games like AOC and Warhammer get rated higher than WOW.

A couple points

1.  WOW has 11.5 million subscribers -  Do not expect them to EVER change their basic gameplay.  When a game is folding and closing servers (ie War and AOC), then you can expect them to change gameplay drastically.  Why would a game that is going strong suddenly do a major and drastic change.  Cata is going to sell 4 million copies the first 24 hours it is released, similar to WotLK.  You really expect Blizzard to mess with the formula that got them there?

2.  World pvp -  Are you kidding.. if you read these forums, you would think world pvp doesn't exist.  And now the reviewer is compaining about getting 'ganked' by someone who is 2 levels higher than him.  This is exactly what pvp players want. They want pvp to happen in zones that are appropriate for their level.  Imagine that, people who are doing quests in a zone are actually fighting with people from the opposite faction doing the same quests.  Praise the old Gods, world pvp is back!! And not the crap where lvl 60 characters are overrunning a lvl 20 zone (southshore).

 

1. Because people don't get bored on same old? Haha, ever heard fashion? People get bored stuff very fast. I think major point why so many casual is still playing is socials but that won't last. 

2. That's not world PvP, that's GANKING. There won't be any world pvp like vanilla since everyone will quickly lvl up max go with raiding and BGs. Fact that Blizzard made lvling even faster and people are moving zone to zone on increasing speed will make it even less possible. Also since WoW end game is endless gear hogging fest(nothing wrong with it atleast you have goal unlike in some games) that world PvP has never really supported aka what's a point wasting time killing horde/alliance here when you can do it in BG.

It's easy to say that Catalysm will sell millions but I hope it won't. It's time to move on, try something else and perhaps do some innovation. I will be wrong.

With this change they shoulda gone back to level 60 since there is less talents. 80 odd levels puts off new players but 60 seams more doable.

Yeah it was at the end of our guild 40 man Nax run, where were were 11/12, when a guild mate posted a pic of a BC green quest item. That sucked!

Now when I quit playing epics were damn candy and handed out. I think people will be fine..

Originally posted by Sasami

Originally posted by Azrile

I had to check.. sure enough, I am on the MMORPG.com forums, the only place in the universe games like AOC and Warhammer get rated higher than WOW.

A couple points

1.  WOW has 11.5 million subscribers -  Do not expect them to EVER change their basic gameplay.  When a game is folding and closing servers (ie War and AOC), then you can expect them to change gameplay drastically.  Why would a game that is going strong suddenly do a major and drastic change.  Cata is going to sell 4 million copies the first 24 hours it is released, similar to WotLK.  You really expect Blizzard to mess with the formula that got them there?

2.  World pvp -  Are you kidding.. if you read these forums, you would think world pvp doesn't exist.  And now the reviewer is compaining about getting 'ganked' by someone who is 2 levels higher than him.  This is exactly what pvp players want. They want pvp to happen in zones that are appropriate for their level.  Imagine that, people who are doing quests in a zone are actually fighting with people from the opposite faction doing the same quests.  Praise the old Gods, world pvp is back!! And not the crap where lvl 60 characters are overrunning a lvl 20 zone (southshore).

 

1. Because people don't get bored on same old? Haha, ever heard fashion? People get bored stuff very fast. I think major point why so many casual is still playing is socials but that won't last. 

2. That's not world PvP, that's GANKING. There won't be any world pvp like vanilla since everyone will quickly lvl up max go with raiding and BGs. Fact that Blizzard made lvling even faster and people are moving zone to zone on increasing speed will make it even less possible. Also since WoW end game is endless gear hogging fest(nothing wrong with it atleast you have goal unlike in some games) that world PvP has never really supported aka what's a point wasting time killing horde/alliance here when you can do it in BG.

 

It's easy to say that Catalysm will sell millions but I hope it won't. It's time to move on, try something else and perhaps do some innovation. I will be wrong.

 

On point 1, people obviously don't get bored of the same because they stil have a massive subscription base. What Azrile was saying is that 11mill+ subs reinforce the change nothing philosophy.  Because if it aint broken(in the business sense) then don't fix it.  When they stop making billions of dollars annualy from doing the same thing then they might change.  Until then expect to see more of the same.

Point 2 I totally agree.  Ganking =/= world pvp.  I hope for change hopefully some of the games on the horizon will offer that. Until then, cya in Azeroth.

I remember a poll two years ago where it was found that out of the 11 million subscribers less then 8% of the playerbase are on pvp servers, rest are spread out on the PVE and RP servers. This goes to show that those who prefer the gankfests are on the pvp servers. There are a lot of pvp/raid guilds who have moved to the pve servers due to not liking the elite gankers who prey on others to stroke there egos. The gankers are in the minority. Majority of WOW players play to have fun, gankers ruin the fun aspect of the game. For those folks who are not pvp gankers suggest you take the opportuntity to move to a pve server when and if blizzard offers you a chance. You get better pvp on the pve servers via the battlegrounds.

I don't play WoW and never will, so I'm not sure how past purple gear has compared to the green gear with the other expansions, but it sounds like Blizzard has taken a page from SOE on this one.  You see, I've heard the very same arguement from EQ/EQ2 players with almost every expansion they've put out for both games.  It kinda goes alnong with what was stated earlier, you  see new players and even old players that start new toons are not going to spend the time in the old zones to get the purple stuff so they remove the need to spend hours of grinding to get good gear for the new zones.  I will say though, that SOE usually makes the blue or yellow gear better and not the green anymore /shrug, all you acn do is complain and see what happens.

My,My, How WoW has changed since the good old beta days!  Will Cataclysm bring back old players or keep present players interested enough to continue playing? Anyone's guess!

I am not bothered by the fact that I will throw away my epics for level 80 greens. I play the game for fun and not for gear so I don't really care if it was purple,white or peach as long as it gets the work done, aka I can do what I want.

However, I don't want to play Cataclysm if it turns up the way wotlk is now - instant teleportation to dungeons, raids, battlegrounds etc. Unfortunately, I don't see that changing with the dungeon finder still in the game. I used to quest and explore the world a lot before and after the dungeon finder and I will explore the new cata world when it comes out. Just like exploring single-player RPGs. But it feels like such a lonely experience when you are the only one doing it :( I just don't want to run the same zones over and over again till the next expansion. I want to explore new dungeons and content and not repeat those two dungeons which are the latest tiers. However, I haven't found a MMORPG to offer anything better so I will just keep exploring on my own...

As a beta tester, I'd like to address a couple things in this article:

1. The Gear: quest greens in Hyjal are ilvl 272 and quest blues are ilvl 288. Despite their ilvl, almost all ilvl 264+ epics and most ilvl 251 epics are equal/better than these greens. The blues are probably better than the ilvl 251 gear and on par with the ilvl 264+ stuff. Having completed every quest in Hyjal, I can tell you there are no more than 4 quests that reward you with blue gear.

2. The quests: Yes, there is a certain linearity to the zone. You move around from hub to hub never taking on more than 4 quests at a time. I can understand why some players may not like this linearity, however, for players who are reading the quest texts they'll find that Hyjal has an interesting, campaign-esque story, Also, the initial two quests are indeed fairly run of the mill and indeed there are plenty others like them in the zone, but there are also plenty of more fun and interesting quests, including multiple quests that send you through portals in Hyjal that take you to the Firelands.

I hope this clarifies some of the things I feel that the article did not entirely explain due to its brevity. I do not mean to sound like I am attacking the article, I am merely sharing my own experience to add to what the article discusses.

Originally posted by Azrile

3.  Gear reset -  This has always been debatable.  It comes down to two choices.  Do you want players to level for 3 weeks and every time they turn in a quest, they never even have to look at the quest rewards because nothing will be an upgrade? Or do you want players to upgrade their gear right away?  My understanding is that the best gear in the game right now will last you until level 83, or you get blues from running non-heroic instances.  I am not sure the ilevel of the reviewer (probably 200), but most players have ilvl 232 gear at least, which won't be replaced in the first zones. ( Also to point out, My Hyjal and Vash are both 'starter' zones in Cata - they are the same level similar to Borean and Howling in WotLK).

 

Gear reset should only be applicable to those who didn't raid ICC25 here and I'm not looking forward to replacing the gear I busted my ass off IN THE FIRST GOD DAMN ZONE OF CATACLYSM. Fact, I shouldn't even have to replace gear until 83. 

And what's even funnier is Blizzard said when Wrath came out they weren't going to do "that" again. That the plan was anyone who had raid gear (end-game) wouldn't be immediately replacing it with the first zone's quests.

Oh well...I'll just do what I did in Wrath; anyone I see QQing about game difficulty...I'll hope of my opposite-faction character and corpse-camp them, proceeded by graveyard-camping.

I'm in the beta test of the game as well, though out of respect for the NDA which I believe is still in effect (haven't logged in much this past week due to a eye injury which is now clearing up) I can say at least this much;  Also, this isn't a indepth reply to the OP's article, again for reasons which for now, is my understanding of the NDA, I can only speak in generalities.

It is and it isn't WoW 2.0.  Yes, a lot of things are being done differently, yet for all the change, its still the same, you quest to level, you hump instances to gear up, and thats the only thing that develops your character is gear, gear, and more gear, that particular treadmill is in full force.  I know, how could I expect anything else?  But here's the thing, the formula for how WOW develops your character hasn't changed much since Vanilla WoW.   My worth as a player is still judged by the items I wear, never mind that said implied worth is merely the case of someone running the content and winning the roll.

I have plenty of raiding expierence, and there was a time I greatly enjoyed my weekly 10 man runs due to the friendship that developed.  But when that group broke up and it was the rest of my guild and other affiliated raiding guilds that were my cohorts, the game lost a lot of its appeal.  As I got absorbed into weekly 25s and  the pug 10 man formations within our guild, though they weren't a aggravation, they were no longer a joy.

 I'm sure seasoned WoW players know what I'm talking of there, the "fun chemistry" wasn't present anymore, a chemistry that was completely due to whom I was playing with, not what I was playing.  In my new runs, it was all about collecting badges and gear.  Five months later, a lot of the color of WoW drained from the game, and as I explore Cata, I see only more of the same done the same way.  I still have to focus on gear above all else for character development and that treadmill is now very loud and squeaky and no amount of oil will help.

Now to be fair, all of the MMOs I've played are locked into the same box, they do the same thing in a different way perhaps, but you see the same old structure over and over again.  The only game I see as different is Eve, and I wish I could get behind it more because it does most things right, but I just have a problem with considering a space ship my "character".  If a game developer were really daring to challenge the current fantasy and what not themed MMOs on the market today, they'd stop trying to be like WoW and try to be more like Eve.  

So basically, what I'd say is if you've only been playing WOW since BC, you can probably still get a kick out of Cata, but if you've quit due to being bored with the game's overall structure, you'll consider Cata a waste of time and money.  Not because Blizz didn't do a good job, but because what drove you away in the first place is still very much present and will not change in the forseeable future.

There is a 30% buff in ICC which means they practically hand your current epics to you on a platter (unless you are a competent player who managed to complete it at its intended level).   If Cata is a return to normal difficulty levels then I think greens replacing purples is fine.   Purples became the new whites in WoTLK.  FFS you can get a full set just running 5 mans.

There is a 30% buff in ICC which means they practically hand your current epics to you on a platter (unless you are a competent player who managed to complete it at its intended level).   If Cata is a return to normal difficulty levels then I think greens replacing purples is fine.   Purples became the new whites in WoTLK.  FFS you can get a full set just running 5 mans.

WoW is great. WTF are all of you haters QQing about? It's great that it's comical. It's great that it's colorful. It's great because it grew in size and story. It's great for every skill level. It's great that it's the most responsive game I've ever played. It's great because of the UI customization. So many "basic" stuff in WoW that all these supposedly "better" games are missing makes me wonder why people say they're better.

What's not great is the fact that you will be able to "beat" (whatever it is to beat in a persistent mmorpg) the game in a few months just like the BC and WotLK content--Vanilla was raider hell, nobody has beaten vanilla! I personally enjoy the grind to the next zone, the grind to the next new skill, and the grind to the next gear but I still don't know if I'm going to re-subscribe or even buy the Collector's Edition set to complete my Warcraft CE box sets.

I know what ruined WoW. Flying Mounts. Player to player world interractions plumetted because of semi-unrestricted flying mounts. Flying mounts ruined the excitement of random world encounters which was the best part of exploring in Vanilla.

50/50... to buy or not to buy.........

Originally posted by Dyner

Oh well...I'll just do what I did in Wrath; anyone I see QQing about game difficulty...I'll hope of my opposite-faction character and corpse-camp them, proceeded by graveyard-camping.

 

See here the avarage intelligence of the wow-community written down. Kids these days...

Originally posted by SkullDeep

Originally posted by Dyner

Originally posted by Azrile

Oh well...I'll just do what I did in Wrath; anyone I see QQing about game difficulty...I'll hope of my opposite-faction character and corpse-camp them, proceeded by graveyard-camping.

 

See here the avarage intelligence of the wow-community written down. Kids these days...

This seems to be the average intelligence level of most comunities in most MMOs ^_^

Originally posted by CreamyDoom

2. The quests: Yes, there is a certain linearity to the zone. You move around from hub to hub never taking on more than 4 quests at a time. I can understand why some players may not like this linearity, however, for players who are reading the quest texts they'll find that Hyjal has an interesting, campaign-esque story, Also, the initial two quests are indeed fairly run of the mill and indeed there are plenty others like them in the zone, but there are also plenty of more fun and interesting quests, including multiple quests that send you through portals in Hyjal that take you to the Firelands.

I hope this clarifies some of the things I feel that the article did not entirely explain due to its brevity. I do not mean to sound like I am attacking the article, I am merely sharing my own experience to add to what the article discusses.

How does these "hubs" different stuff that was WotLK. I mean basicly you had 2-3 places in map where you got all quests near that place and after that you moved on, how does Cata system change that at all? Also why on earth I'm playing VIDEO game and yet keep spending reading books on screen? I do so hope SWTOR questing will be future. I'm sick tired of quests where you basicly get book and small note, "Read the book for lore or just small note so you know what to do" could be voice acting for all quest givers in current MMOs, and 99% of people reads just the note.

I know it is disheartening after working so hard for those epics, all the asskissing to the guild leader, all the backstabbing done to people who are in your loot type, all the ninjalooting from PuGs, but that is how WoW is. Every 1-1.5 years, everyone starts over, in greens until the viscious raid cycle begins. You'd think after selling your soul for some tier X, you would get more replay value out of it... but no... all that shame endured is for naught.

Good luck in Cataclysm kiddos.

Originally posted by Seeker728

I'm in the beta test of the game as well, though out of respect for the NDA which I believe is still in effect (haven't logged in much this past week due to a eye injury which is now clearing up) I can say at least this much;  Also, this isn't a indepth reply to the OP's article, again for reasons which for now, is my understanding of the NDA, I can only speak in generalities.

It is and it isn't WoW 2.0.  Yes, a lot of things are being done differently, yet for all the change, its still the same, you quest to level, you hump instances to gear up, and thats the only thing that develops your character is gear, gear, and more gear, that particular treadmill is in full force.  I know, how could I expect anything else?  But here's the thing, the formula for how WOW develops your character hasn't changed much since Vanilla WoW.   My worth as a player is still judged by the items I wear, never mind that said implied worth is merely the case of someone running the content and winning the roll.

Now to be fair, all of the MMOs I've played are locked into the same box, they do the same thing in a different way perhaps, but you see the same old structure over and over again.  The only game I see as different is Eve, and I wish I could get behind it more because it does most things right, but I just have a problem with considering a space ship my "character".  If a game developer were really daring to challenge the current fantasy and what not themed MMOs on the market today, they'd stop trying to be like WoW and try to be more like Eve.  

So basically, what I'd say is if you've only been playing WOW since BC, you can probably still get a kick out of Cata, but if you've quit due to being bored with the game's overall structure, you'll consider Cata a waste of time and money.  Not because Blizz didn't do a good job, but because what drove you away in the first place is still very much present and will not change in the forseeable future.

This is a good post. Thanks for letting us know what's what and keeping to the NDA.

One picky thing though about EVE, you are not your ship actually. You are you, you'd know this if you've ever been podded and saw your poor little frozen corpse floating about. Your ship is like your suit of armor and weapon which can be destroyed and looted for parts and your pod is like your space underpants.

(Anyway, CCP is going to be releasing Incarna with avatars in supposedly at some point this upcoming year, so perhaps check the game out when it's deployed. Sorry for the aside.)

WoW feels so drab in comparison with its set item bonuses and only giving a tiny bit of customization with socketable gems. EVE's ships have amazing customization in comparison.

So let me get this straight: if you liked vanilla WoW then you won't like Cata? That's pretty... hmm.... sad. Have you been to the redone oldworld zones? Do they feel like they used to or is the actual 'architecture' of the redone zones completely different? That is an important question to me to have answered and will tell me if I want to get this expac or not.

Originally posted by MurlockDance

This is a good post. Thanks for letting us know what's what and keeping to the NDA.

Thank you for the compliment, as for the NDA, I was told by a friend at work who is also in the beta that its been lifted.  I haven't had the inclination to check so I can't say for certain, but if it is, you should be able to find out a lot more than this thread allows for.

One picky thing though about EVE, you are not your ship actually. You are you, you'd know this if you've ever been podded and saw your poor little frozen corpse floating about. Your ship is like your suit of armor and weapon which can be destroyed and looted for parts and your pod is like your space underpants.

To be honest, my experience with Eve is limited, I tried the trial version, and this was I believe around 2 years ago, and was more than a little confused and lost about the game.  It had been so long since I had played a sandbox game, that I was at a loss.  I spent time reading the boards and getting a better feel for the game after my trial elapsed due to curiosity but never dove back into it, though I have great admiration for how they set up their sandbox and maintain its integrity.

(Anyway, CCP is going to be releasing Incarna with avatars in supposedly at some point this upcoming year, so perhaps check the game out when it's deployed. Sorry for the aside.)

Actually, I quite appreciate that, it sparked my interest and when time allows for me to pursue MMOing again, I think I'll give Eve another look due to the above post :) 

WoW feels so drab in comparison with its set item bonuses and only giving a tiny bit of customization with socketable gems. EVE's ships have amazing customization in comparison.

So let me get this straight: if you liked vanilla WoW then you won't like Cata? That's pretty... hmm.... sad. Have you been to the redone oldworld zones? Do they feel like they used to or is the actual 'architecture' of the redone zones completely different? That is an important question to me to have answered and will tell me if I want to get this expac or not.

Indeed I have been back to the pre BC content.  The quests have changed, both in the sense that the mobs one deals with are a little more sophisticated in their behavior (i.e. they make use of skills more and thus occasionally surprise you), quest lines have been streamlined here and there to facilitate the faster leveling schedule they've implimented, and the dungeons are getting a bit of a overhaul.  In this sense, Blizz is definitely tending to business by cleaning up content to be in synch with the Cata, because basically, they have to.  They have to give new accounts a faster leveling pace and those who have been absent from the later stages of WotLK a fighting chance by raising the floor on gear.  

As for completely redone?  No, I'd say about roughly 30-40% of encounters, depending on which one specifically you're talking about, has been restructured.  There is for example several quests in Eastern/Western Plaguelands that are completely gone, along with the old faction grinds because the gear they granted access to is beyond obsolete.  You'll have a occasional moment of "gosh, that's different isn't it?" and then quickly forget it as you move on to the next task.

I don't want to come across as a Blizz basher (too late?), Cata has a lot of refinements that many will enjoy I'm sure, depending on how much of WoW they've accessed content wise in the past, and for how long they've been playing.  There's a return to more CC in dungeons, less AoE fests, but that gameplay element is going to be crushed by the first update to heroic level dungeons just like it was in WotLK.  

What saps my urge to play the game any further is that I do not look forward to leveling another 5 levels, or having all the gear grinds I've done on 6 toons made obsolete within 2 levels for quest greens.  Nor do I look forward to the same old dynamic of grinding another badge set to do 10 man raid content which requires more badge grinding to unlock a slightly more difficult variant of the same content I just spent 6-10 weeks doing multiple times per week all for slightly more powerful gear that looks exactly the same and allows me even less flexibility in how I play my character.  

Someone who has played WoW a lot more casually, or hasn't played it in a good bit of time will undoubtedly feel differently, but because its the same old core mechanic of advancement with zero customization, I don't feel like I'm indulging in recreation, I feel like I'm wasting my time with the monotony of the game play.

 

Thanks again for a really good post.

I fall more into the category of non-raider because I know that Blizzard keeps on putting new treadmills in and I can't be bothered with grinding endgame material when it is made obsolete with a new expac. They've done this every time they've released an expac. I'm glad for it because I benefit a lot from the updated gear, but I feel bad for those who gave the raids a good long shot in order to equip themselves. I don't think Blizz have much choice though.

I was mainly worried that the feel of vanilla would be gone. There are plenty of old zones I really love, like Strangethorn Vale, Dustwallow Marsh, etc. I hope they're not making these areas less 'RPG' and more 'arcade-like', like the WotLK areas that are just a bit too fast-paced for my tastes. I also prefer the older dungeons. I guess I'll just have to see what the changes are, from reading up about them before I go and take a new character through those zones in Cataclysm.

That combined with the redoing of talent trees to make them less customizable has me wondering what direction Blizz are taking this game.

The dungeon finder is indded a great tool, but i also miss the time when u explore palces and u find alliances and horders exploring ( and killing each other ) as well... nowadays ppl just sit in dalaran w8ing for the dungeon, and even the not lvl 80 ppl tend to do something like it... i miss the time when u could fight anywhere, tough some times it makes me angry, like before burning crusade, i was trying to go to EPL, but a bunch of orcs were raiding the alliance camp is WPL lol