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World of Warcraft General Article: Confessions of a Ganker
MMORPG.com World of Warcraft Correspondent Sean Cooper writes this article discussing the difference between ganking and griefing and tells us why even he ganks every now and then.
By Sean Cooper on October 08, 2009
It's happened to everyone in WoW; you're deep in the jungles of Stranglethorn Vale and you've just murdered another animal for Hemet Nessingwary Jr. As you approach the hunter's camp, pelts in hand, a powerful rogue comes out of the shadows and puts a 10k Ambush knife critical hit into your backside. You slam your hands on the keyboard in fury... he's been killing you for hours. You pray that he won't corpse camp you. After all, all you want to do is play the game.
As aspects of the player versus player experience, ganking and griefing are two of the most hotly contested topics in online gaming. Is there a difference between ganking and griefing? More importantly, why does it matter? Are the people responsible for these heinous crimes really demented citizens who were bullied as children and currently reside in their parents' basement, as some forum threads might have us believe?
Fortunately, I can say that I was not bullied as a child, nor do I live in my parents' basement, and yet, on occasion I take pleasure in ruining a low level character's day when I ride through a zone to help a friend. Of course, there's a subtle difference between a stray death coil to send a noob to the spirit healer, and corpse camping an unlucky player until boredom or higher level friends arrive. The difference between these two things is the difference between "ganking" and "griefing."
As a game in the Warcraft universe, the developers have worked very carefully to push the tension of war into the player experience. While this option can be removed by playing on a Player vs Environment server, the real experience of leveling while looking over your shoulder is very much a positive element of the game.
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By flagging yourself for PvP or by playing on a Player vs Player server, you accept the consequences of moving from safer gameplay into the warzone. More importantly, what makes getting killed and camped by a player any different than an NPC mob? Both occurrences are frustrating, but they create a challenge.
Ganking is life inside of the world of WoW-- getting killed by something stronger than you is part of the game. How many times did a Son of Arugal or a Fel Reaver sneak up on you? Enough to make you be aware of them in order to scatter like cockroaches when ever they came around. Killing these monsters for many players is one of the more satisfying elements of the game. Being able to exercise your ability to look at something and make it die is just as satisfying--especially if it has killed you on other occasions.
Why do people gank? The answers are many and varied. Yes, some of them may be covering up deep psychological weakness, or covering up their inability to kill players their own level. Psychologists have noted that play allows children to deal with difficult situations and complex emotions in a safe way. In this way death and killing in an MMORPG can be therapeutic or the result of neurosis. More than likely, this is not the case.
Others, like me, do it because we can. We enjoy killing other players as part of the game. A flagged player is a flagged player; I fight anyone flagged and push to kill them before they kill me-- whether or not they actually can. I also do it because it happened to me when I was leveling, and any revenge is enough to put my conscience at ease. When you're bored at max level, sometimes it's funny to see how persistent the lowbie will be-- to see if he'll keep trying to quest here before you get bored and take off. How many players gank critters at any chance? I know I do.
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Other players attempt to gank low level characters in order to draw in max level characters so that some very satisfying world PvP can occur. World PvP can be more satisfying than any battleground or arena can ever be, and no fight will ever be the same. Sometimes knowing there's another person there on the other end who will respond in kind, in anger, frustration, or laughter makes the killing all the better. It makes the game more real. Who wants to kill helpless AI anyway? At least a helpless player has an opportunity to learn and plan to avoid you or to run. And on top of everything else, it's a lot more merciful than other forms of griefing, such as sapping or crowd controlling targets and preventing them from doing anything.
On the other hand, getting hunted, killed, and camped by a player of the opposite faction is far from fun, and most players certainly do not pay to have this happen to them. This is when ganking crosses the line and becomes griefing. Whether or not you intend to destroy the other player's experience, at a certain point, your fun is coming at someone else's expense. It's also a jerk move. Killing lower level players is a form of cyber bullying, and those of us who do it will legitimately own up to it, griefing or not. Ultimately ganking is a lot like high schooler picking on a kindergartener. Whether or not you choose to engage in or otherwise condone the practice as an acceptable part of the game, it's hard to justify it as anything else.
The difference between ganking and griefing is subtle enough that most players have difficulty separating the two, and such a task might as well be impossible. It's safe to say, however, that WoW is not a lawless game and opening yourself to these results is ultimately your responsibility. Except in rare occasions, most players choose to engage allowing themselves the opportunity to be ganked.
Below are a few tips I've collected over my time in WoW that can be used to minimize downtime from ganking:
- Prevent Ganking Outright- As I have mentioned, playing on a PvE server and not flagging yourself is the first step to keeping yourself protected. What if you want to fight people your level? Go to a battle ground, or suck it up and deal with the fact that that lowbie might be just a few yards from his max level friend.
- Take skinning to hide - While it's not always an option, hiding the trail of your killing can hide you from players who will hunt you. The same obviously goes for stealth and shadowmeld.
- Travel with powerful friends - Having higher level allies from your faction may not keep you alive, but it will deter people from attempting to attack. At minimum, travel in groups.
- Come back later - Get some fresh air, either in another zone or in real life. It's just a game.
- Don't get frustrated - Of course, this is difficult, but if you're really dealing with a low-life troll, your frustration showing in the game is one sure-fire way to invite corpse camping. And for the love of all that is holy, don't message them on your cross faction alt. You'll only be rewarding them by showing the misery they caused.
- Keep a Kill on Sight (KoS) list - Either on paper or with an add-on. At least this way you can assure your revenge is appropriately dealt.
Average article I suppose. Was a fine read but doesn't say anything new. It just says in a few more words:
- ganking is good, griefing is bad, and getting ganked is bad as well
- some gankers are mentals and some are not
Also the list of advice in the end seemed a bit shallow. Playing on a PvE server to avoid getting ganked? Oh really? And skinning to hide your trail? Sounds like an RPG thing in my opinion. People who kill mobs and know how to skil will also skin those mobs anyway. Same as people who can stealth will use it if they think someone tries to kill them.
I mean the author put effort into the article and I don't want to devalue that work. But the topic is discussed since years in each forum. So I expected to read something new, learn of a new viewpoint, get new insights or anything like that.
My personal opinion about the topic of griefing and ganking:
Ganking is the only reason why PvP servers exist in WoW. There are never perfectly even fights in world PvP. If people would only attack someone if it would be fair, then noone would ever kill anyone in the open world and you'd have a PvE server. So if you dislike ganking or getting ganked, don't play on a PvP server. Griefing: it's annoying but part of PvP. People do what entertains them and what the game allows them to do, as well as what you allow them to do. Try to get away from the guy, get some friends or do something else until he's gone.
The article's missing the one thing I learned from my time on PvP servers.
The very best way to avoid a serial-ganking is alts, alts, alts, and more alts.
Kill me once, shame on you.
Kill me twice, I'm logging an alt, and continuing with my enjoyable evening.
The difference between Ganking and Geifing is pretty simple...
Ganking = Your trying to have fun...your idea of fun is hunting other players.... choosing targets that give you a high probability of success is logical. Important distinction here... you are NOT setting out to ruin anyones day. If the other player gets upset, it's simply because they were unlucky enough to put thier characters into the cross-hairs.
Ganking is ok for games/environments that are setup with the EXPECTATION that it will happen. Corpse camping I'd say starts to get pretty close to crossing the line into griefing.
Griefing = Your trying to have fun.... your idea of fun IS ruining another players day. It really doesn't matter to you what activity you need to engage in in order to do that...your goal is not the activity, it's making the other play upset. Griefing is NEVER ok. It should result in a PERMA-BAN for anyone that engages in it. It's practitioners ARE socialy maladjusted kids (mentaly if not chronologicaly).
Personaly I don't do much PvP in MMO's at all. MMO's don't tend to do PvP very well in general. The experience is generaly pretty brain-dead in them and winning often comes down to nothing more then who is higher level, has better gear, has less lag, can mash buttons quicker or can put more bodies onto a server. The experience tends to be pretty shallow and involves very little skill, tactics or grey matter.
About the only MMO that I've seen that offers a good quality PvP experience is WWII-Online but that's because it's basicaly an FPS with a semi-persistant world and a huge number of players going at it.
For quality PvP experiences.... I goto games that are actualy designed for them...which are generaly not MMO's things like the Battlefield series (IMO) offer much better PvP experiences then MMO's do. Mostly I prefer those or strategy games, like Combat Mission or Advanced Tactics WWII or Norm Kroegers TOAW series. Those are the type of games where you really match wits with an opponent.
MMO's for me are more about PVE, role-play, socialization and escapeism.
"More importantly, what makes getting killed and camped by a player any different than an NPC mob?"
You can CHOOSE to walk away from the mob and do other stuff.
how about letting a goldfarmer writing an article next? or an account hacker.
seriously, the "justification" for ganking in that article is hilarious. but i guess it reflects the personality of the ppl who do it well.
People tend not to pay for to long for either getting ganked or grifed.
Jihad works both ways
It's called PvP and I'm so tired of hearing about ganking...... It's easy don't play on a PvP server and realize that I'm your enemy not your friend that's why it's called Alliance vs Horde. The only people that complain about being ganked are the people that get ganked before they can do it someone else. PERIOD!
I cut my teeth on a PvP server. I rarely ganked anyone. I found it more enjoyable to shadow lowbies just to freak them out. If I ran across an ally within a few levels of mine, I would always attack. I thought that was the real point of a PvP server.
I have a question?
Are PvP servers enjoyable for people that don't like to gank (don't kill anyone clearly inferior?)
I quit playing on PvP servers when I realized that at level 50 I had been killed by someone within a few levels of me maybe 5 or 6 times. But I had been killed by people 20+ levels above me well over a hundred times. And as I got higher level more and more often I was getting killed by groups.
I finally realized that while I had a lot of fun in 1v1 PvP or when grouped attacking like sized groups. Almost NOONE else on PvP servers had fun doing that, for them it was all about killing someone who has no chance of defending themselves.
I.E. 90%+ of the people I fought on PvP servers were just people frustrated at the world and wanting to take it out on someone.
No thanks. I'll stick to the battlegrounds where it is generally speaking a fair fight.
You cant truly gank in WoW lol, article writer sounds like a carebear. No pun intended
Probably the most fun I've ever had in an MMORPG was when a buddy and I leveled up druids together on a PvP server. Between stealth, travel form, and track humanoids, we initiated every fight we were in, and when the stuff hit the fan, he was tank spec and I was healing spec, so we could take on just about any other group of up to three or four people.
Even when we did occasionally lose (someone grabbed their 70 mains to seek revenge), it was still fun trying to get away from them. We even started a few full-scale wars whenever we'd kill someone in a big guild and their mates would show up to help, then more of our people would show up, then strangers from each faction would join in... we had a 50 v 50 battle going on around Grom Gol once. :)
Best time in WoW ever. If you're going to play on a PvP server, I suggest you play one of the stealth or ranged classes. Try a rogue, druid, hunter, or warlock and you'll be at a significant advantage.
My brother prefers pvp servers, and never initiates pvp...ever. He likes them so that when he gets killed, he can get revenge, or when he sees some alliance trying to gank others, or corpse camp others, he can defend them. It's not my viewpoint, but it works for him.
For me, I have no idea if the alliance is just getting revenge for the same thing, so I have a hard time justifying defending my fellow horde members when I have no idea who started it, and don't really consider it a big deal to die. I have fun by hunting through low level areas, and sapping, maybe /licking individuals that I see out questing. I will only kill individuals if I see them killing horde friendly NPCs, for the RP value, but I do play on RPPVP servers.
With groups, I just love coming in, killing one, waving at the others, mounting, and running off...just to mess with their heads. I want them wondering what that one did to me, rather than simply thinking poorly of me.
To me, it just isn't fun to go around and kill every grey player to me, so I make games with it, and make my own fun.
-- Maarberg, Undead Rogue
This is what I think too...and what I used to do on Magtheridon (EU)...although the allies was few and faaar between there.
Besides...if you can't take getting killed by the opposite faction...high lvl or same lvl both...what are you doing on a PVP server in the first place, or even worse, flag yourself with PVP???
Ganking and griefing are the same, they show a persons true colors. I guess that is why the community on PvP servers are generally a lot more rotten than communities on PvE centric games... it caters to rotten spirited people.
I guess if you enjoy ruining another persons playing experience you will defend it. I leveled 3 characters to 80 on a PvP server and not once did I ever encounter someone within 10 levels of me engage me in world PvP. So I asked myself, what is the point? I don't like ruining someone elses experience and engaging in jack-assery. Well when my irl friend quit the game I rerolled to a PvE server, better community, better leveling experience, I wasn't bothered while I went about my business leveling and it was the best experience I ever received from WoW.
There is no difference between "ganking" and "griefing". I utterly depise people who do it. IMO they are very very sick individuals in RL. They are merely doing in the game what they want to do in RL or ARE doing in RL. They should seek mental care help immediately. And no, I am not joking. Sick people. If you think its funny, you're one of them. And no ganking and griefing have nothing to do with pvp. Nothing wrong with pvp. PvP like the old UT was great. Attacking a far lesser player is and always has been the action of a coward. It takes NO talent or skill to kill a player half your level. What a loser. Let the asshat gankers begin the flames, I don't give a rats ass. Thats my 2 cents, your mileage may vary.
Wait, what?
Ganking and griefing in WOW?! I thought it was like Hello Kitty and that you couldnt loose anything? That everything magically reappears on your char when you have died?
To gank or not to gank, that is the question. I spend most of my time flying around looking for people to gank. Sadly the world is empty as of late and I have cancelled, perhaps a new game will provide more ganking opportunities.
If you are getting corpse camped, I believe the best solution is to go afk and make a sandwich. That way you waste the gankers time.
Time is money friend.
You would run out of sandwich material pretty fast :)
it's pretty apparent there's two types of people on this disscusion chain, those who like to "gank/greif" and those who don't. Question for those who do gank, more specifically gank "grey's", why? where's the challange, the sport. Is slapping around someone who can't fight back good times?
Me personally i could never play on a PVE server, i like fighting other players, so much more challanging than hunting down computer AI hell boars. (not dissing PVE players, just different strokes for different folks) But i never attack lowbies, hell i'm more likely to help out a grey on a different faction than attack him. However if your with-in a few levels of me (lower or higher) and i'm not actively questing, i'm going to attack. That's at least a challange and you get honor or temporary rights to whatever mob your trying to kill (or revenge, or if your a gnome i hate gnomes).
So please gankers/griefers of the lowly grey's help me out, why? what's in it for you?
pvp tears make me want to resubscribe
This all depends on your definition of "gank". IMO ganking is attacking someone who has no possibility of defeating you. Griefing is the same, but doing it over and over.
One thing that amuses me is the mind set of "If you don't want to be ganked, then don't play on a PvP server." Again, IMO, if everyone followed this... Almost every PvP server would be a ghost town. Just take a look at the server list after you log in. A lot of the servers listed as low population are PvP servers.
While i was still playing WoW i did so a lot on RP-PvP and PvP servers but i never enjoyed killing lowbies for no reason.
Ofcourse i killed a lot of people through the years but they usually did something to desreve it or it was part of a larger attack and they were just at the wrong place at the wrong time.
Besides level 58-80 players hardly ever have a reason to be in a place where enemy lowbies are questing (since you're mostly in Outland / Northerend or a capital city at that point), so you really have to get out of your way if you get off on frustrating other people.
IMO, if you cannot accept that ganking and griefing happen then I really would recommend avoiding the PVP realms. While I find it personally cruel and unsatisfying to sucker punch or one shot someone that has no chance against me, and thus do not do it, I accept that it is a hazard of running in a PVP realm. Notable exceptions include if I see a person lower than me gank another or spawn camp a quest-giver, I will kill them. Other than that, the lowbies just are not worth the button press and likely have enough problems without me chiming in.
Hell, if see an "enemy" struggling against an NPC mob and near death I will wade in and help them kill it. Using the justification: "Well, I was ganked/griefed when I was leveling so I am gonna do it now." is such a lame cop-out, stop paying-forward the hate and step up to reverse the trend.
Peace, good leveling and may all your loot rolls be high when it counts.
I never understood the "fun" in killing grey characters. It's about as challenging and rewarding as killing a level 1 mob at level 80.
In the early days of WoW, I ran across a couple of campers who outleveled me by at least 20 levels. They were having a blast killing my character over and over, but didn't realize guildies were on the way. When two evenly-leveled guild characters showed up, they ran away and logged out. :D
Evenly leveled battles were fun, but there never seemed to be much interest in fighting if there was even a chance of losing.
Most griefers are bullies, people with deep psychological problems that they act out in games. They are the type that enjoys pulling wings from butterflies and moths or using magnifying glass to fry ants. They just want to see and cause suffering as that is what makes their jollies. They should be spanked by their mommies. They don't necessarily live in their parent's basement but most of them do not have the maturity or responsible enough to survive alone.
Gankers are those looking for challenge or roleplay or whatever their reason. They have a lot of self bestowed reasons for their crusade to inflict death and carnage to their victims. Gankers are functional people but they really believed that they can do it just because the game allows them to. They would cheat and use exploits at a drop of a hat if they can get away with it. Their reason and justification ? Just because they can and the game rules allows them to.
This is a terribly biased opinion.
You (the poster) have to understand that alot of people play these games for the PvP interaction, the faction vs faction, and the real oponent combat. Not all PvPers are jerks, and not all PvE'ers are nice happy friendly people.
You are of course going to find the more ambitious and out spoken types on the PvP servers, that's just a given, but don't persecute them and talk about some sort of "mentality" they all have as if it's some type of defect in their social development.
It's just a different group's perception of what they want to experience in an MMO.
Ganking is complete BS, if you gank for fun, then there is definitely something wrong with the way you think the game should be played. I would never roll on a PvP server, they are just BS. But on PvE servers, I think they should take it one step further and stop people from being able to kill quest givers/ Flight masters/ Auctioneers/Bankers, etc. I signed up for a PvE server because I want to enjoy a completely unhindered PvE experience.
Best I can say about the article is that sugar coats all that is poorly made in WoW PvP.
Play on PvE server? So what happens when half dozen or so top geared chars decide to lock down a starter zone by killing NPC guards and quest givers? There are also bottlenecks that can be easily blocked by a few people preventing other players to enjoy the game under the guise of PvP. Teldrassil for example.
Skin the kills? Wonderful idea however what if there are no kills to be made? Oh, like few capped chars aoeing down everything in sight, questgivers included in low and mid level zones. If the kill isn't looted, it cannot be skinned, best of all unlooted kill despawns slowly. Oodles of fun in Strangethorn Vale on a PvE server.
And those cute little exploits. You know, where a character ends up on top of a building (smitty in Goldshire anyone) and proceeds to kill NPCs in a available radius while being untouchable. Just pull a bit back everybody below will lose line of sight, patch up and merrily continue.
WoW PvP in general is comical. Better gear trumps lower gear - no exceptions, higher level trumps lower level - no exceptions, bigger numbers trump smaller numbers - no exceptions. Skill? Strategy? Even battles? Nope, nope, and nope. Ganking and griefing is pretty much how WoW functions, and not just on PvP server.
I'm no ganker (and certainly no griefer), and I would never play on anything but a pvp server. Sure, there's always some nub (spin it any way you want, you're a nub if you're a ganker) griefer/ganker out there, but the real fights with people around your level make up for nearly any amount of griefing you have to deal with. Well, at least that's my take on it.
I'm with Zaxxon on this one. I feel that gankers are just people who enjoy kicking ant hills. You can justify it being about war, and teaching people, but fundamentally, you're just screwing with someone.
However, I love PvP of +/- 10. I find that I get better world PvP on PvE servers tho. I can run around Stranglethorn with my flag on, and I'll see people spot me, consider it, then run off and flag. I know that they're coming back, and eventually they do. And it's hella fun.
No level 80's are hanging around just in case I happen to flag, but equal levelish toons will very often rumble with me. Which is awesome.
What a load of crap. There is no "real oponent combat" in one-shotting someone 50 levels lower than you.
Well - It got summed up with "I also do it because it happened to me when I was leveling, and any revenge is enough to put my conscience at ease" - So your justification is that because it happened to you, you have the right to inflict it on others?
Sweet... Time for me to break out my kitchenware and go mug someone!!! (I'm allowed to do it, after all, given this justification!)
This is the explicit reason why I will never actively seek out a PvP server or game; due to idiots like this who think that irritating lower level characters is fun, and that they have the right to do it. (Then again; it fears me that, more-and-more, this is the mentality of people - It was done to me, so I can do it unto others...)
I loved bringing my level 80 Orc warrior over near Darkshire and strut around the graveyard. I would scare the crap out of the lowbies in the area. I would never kill them. I would wave to them and move around.
Couldn't stay long, for I was sure they were reporting me being in the area but it was fun making them sweat it. LOL
I dont like to gank anyone and wouldnt play on a non-PvP server. I just think it is more challenging. The risk of death is much higher and the sweet feeling you get when you come across someone your own level or maybe higher and kill them.
You might as well play a single player RPG if you dont play on a PvP server.
The problem is that Warcraft players don't have a shared understanding of what PvP in the game should be like. It's interesting to compare this to a game such as EVE in which all sorts of misschief and deviant behavior are simply taken for granted as being part of the game, because they can be dealt with within the game's parameters (somebody stole your ship? hire a merc). It's what players enjoy and what motivates people to develop their characters and outsmart their opponents. WoW just doesn't have that option, which is why there will always be conflicting playing styles in that game.
I have to admit, I have had some fun times ganking players in World of Warcraft... in fact, I'd have to say, some of my favorite times ever playing the game.
Why do I like it so much? Like Sean wrote, it brings a lot of unpredictability to the game. My friend and I would gank lower level players JUST so they would bring their higher level friends to counter us, and we'd have crazy skirmishes in the middle of the world, and we never knew just who would come around the corner next to try to take us on. We'd have huge standoffs, and sometimes would have hilarious battles with the two of us versus 20+ lower level characters.
I also like the unpredictability of not knowing when someone might try to gank you. Remember the thrill when you'd hear a rogue unstealthing behind you as your grinding mobs?
To me, this unpredictability of what other players might do and the constant danger is the main reason why I want to play MMOs.
Hurray skipping most of the posts to voice my opinion that next to no one will read!
To me, the difference between ganking and griefing is: If a person has a chance, however small, to have a real shot of surviving the attack and turn it around into a victory for themselves, than it is a gank. Whether they were outnumbered or not is irrelevant, if they can even kill all of them (if only getting away with one) then it is a gank.
A grief happens when someone or anyone comes up and you have absolutely no chance of defending yourself. You have no chance to live, you will die, there's nothing you can do about it.
This is the critical distinction between the two. One, no matter how insurmountable the odds (5v1, lawl) you can at least kill one, esp if you decided to gank back after biding your own time or forming a group of similar level people.
The other, the person so severely outlevels you that you have no chance of fighting back, kills its chance of ever being a gank. If you cannot physically fight back, then it's not a gank, it's griefing, intentionally causing harm to another player just because you can, and gaining satisfaction out of someone elses pain. Schadenfreude.
I have a love-hate relationship with PVP servers. I agree, that if it's just ganking, it can get very fun, because you can start your own skirmishes based off of ganking, whether you or the "enemy" started it, and it can be very fun to start something knowing full well in advance that someone else can fight back and attempt to kill you, just as much as you, them.
Once it becomes griefing, which in WoW as this post is encompassing would be anywhere around +5 to +10 levels on the person or group, is when it's going way too far, and can outright ruin the fun of a player, especially if it changes from ganking to corpse camping, or worse, griefing to corpse camping.
Honestly, I don't much care for PVP servers, and usually avoid them because of griefing, and not ganking, which is where the author of the main subject falls to me, as a griefer. However, I honestly would care a lot less if the griefer had to make a conscious decision to grief me, knowing there were very real consequences in the game world for doing something dishonorable such as attacking someone well bellow their station. The Dishonorable Kill system would probably make PVP servers more tolerable, but this is neither here nor there.
Also:
PvP is not always a option, see Ultima Online
"you want Player vs Player? Ok what's your address?" *cocks shotgun*
“If you don’t want to get ganked (and/or griefed) don’t play on PvP, go to PvE.”
I have heard this advice so much my ears are bleeding. And it is empty advice, it has no value. Here is why:
I was playing on a PvE server. I had finally reached level 24 and was starting to get some decent abilities. My quest was to go kill a bunch of mobs so I went to the proper area. There was a player from the other side there who was level ?? (I later found out he was 64). I figured he was there for farming or whatever. After killing my first mob he flags himself and starts hoping around in front of me as much as he could. I accidently clicked on him, when attempting to click one of the mobs, got flagged and quickly killed. I figured better dying to him than a mob, at least I did not loose durability.
When I got back to my body there he was. Not so much camping as just running around in the area. I waited the needed five minutes to get un-flagged then rezed. Not much after that here he comes again doing exactly the same thing. After two more rounds of that I did finally log and go to an alt. It was too bad I was in the mood to play my 24 Shaman and not my 19 Fighter (or my 39 Cleric).
Notice none of my alts were anywhere near high enough to get revenge. And the guild mates of the right level had just started an instance half way across the world so there was no help there. There was also no response in chat when I asked about getting help.
So, this whole line about “just go play PvE” is garbage. You can still get ganked and griefed even there. It is the players like that one that are ruining the game for those that don’t want to PvP, for whatever reason. And yes, I did cancel my subscription shortly after this happened. There had been several other incidents but this was the last straw. Especially after being told that “PvP is part of the game experience. There is nothing we can do.” It should not be forced on you, it should be a choice.
Um...learn to use the 'tab' key to target..?
*edit*
I don't mean to be a douchebag, or downplay what happened, but there are some real pricks in MMOs. As a matter of fact, I ran into a real winner just a few nights ago...and they were the same faction as I was.
I'd just rolled a brand-spankin' new dwarf toon, got up to level 6, and I was doing some dinky little quest killing Yetis. I'm in the middle of a bunch of mobs, and out of nowhere this little pink haired female gnome warrior, level 10, comes running up and hits me with a duel request. I decline and tell them to go away. They call me a 'pussy' and request again. I ignore them. For the next 25 minutes, this person chased me around, spamming duel requests at me, which got auto-declined due to the being ignored, until I finally logged off because it was just too annoying. Sometimes, you'll just run across a real piece of shit person, and have to deal with it. Yes, it annoyed the crap out of me, but really, what can a person do?
Um...learn to use the 'tab' key to target..?
*edit*
I don't mean to be a douchebag, or downplay what happened, but there are some real pricks in MMOs. As a matter of fact, I ran into a real winner just a few nights ago...and they were the same faction as I was.
I'd just rolled a brand-spankin' new dwarf toon, got up to level 6, and I was doing some dinky little quest killing Yetis. I'm in the middle of a bunch of mobs, and out of nowhere this little pink haired female gnome warrior, level 10, comes running up and hits me with a duel request. I decline and tell them to go away. They call me a 'pussy' and request again. I ignore them. For the next 25 minutes, this person chased me around, spamming duel requests at me, which got auto-declined due to the being ignored, until I finally logged off because it was just too annoying. Sometimes, you'll just run across a real piece of shit person, and have to deal with it. Yes, it annoyed the crap out of me, but really, what can a person do?
The only thing I would have done different was to report them for harassment in both cases. And in your case taken a screen shot. Sometimes even the threat of being reported scares them away.
Go play on a PvE server? I never knew there was such a thing in WoW! [That is after all the game we were talking about from the heading.] I have been playing in MMOs since the late 1990s when I first discovered the Ruins of Kunark. Besides WoW, where playing PvP is an additional cost to the subscription that I must pay to play a well designed game, I have played PvE and PvP in Everquest and Everquest 2 and Dark Age of Camelot, where PvP is also mandatory.
I am going to share with you the best laugh I ever had on a PvP server. In EQ, I most enjoyed playing Enchanters, a difficult class but satisfyingly challenging. On EQ PvP servers you are theoretically 'safe' until level ten but some pet owners had worked out, although they could not directly attack other players, their pets could start things off with a pet vs pet attack that dropped the protection and exposed other characters. In EQ an enchanter's pet is a waste of manna but on reaching to level 8 you get mezzing! I had one chanter I never tried to raise beyond level 8; she just mezzed the griefers' pets. You learn a lot of new vocabulary from the griefers that way; none of it I could ever use though!
My basic life philosophy is, "Treat others they way you would hope they would treat you." I pay money to play games to enjoy myself. I should not enjoy my 'fun' at your expense. MMos allow me to play in a social environment. If you are my level +/- 3, then we are fair game for each other. If you are grey and you want to have a go, hopefully it will be your funeral [ some just grey rogues can sometimes get the better of my petless characters and all credit to them ]. If there is a group of you greys and I am solo, that is part of the game. I just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time If I am grey to you, killing me once to to prove you are superior is bearable although we both knew you could do that before you started. After that, you have the notch on your bedhead, please move on. You will not do it a third time; I have plenty of alts here and in other games. If you are a level 80 at Crossorads or Goldshire, just repeatedly killing all the quest mobs, get a life! If you are around my level and flagged, you are fair game. I know that killing some mobs, even in self defense flags one but only you know what flagged you. If you are grey and flagged, I will 'kill steal' you a couple of times [I know WoW has a lock-out, thanks] to suggest you move on. If you will not take a hint, then you are dead once before I move on. Should you be grey and unflagged, I might help you with removing any adds in a fight or two or clear your route if you are doing an escort quest. You might just remeber that, when you face a similar predicament. I have never kept any revenge lists and get on with trying to bring pleasure into my life. MMOs are simply more fun because they afford the social grouping element that stand-alones have not.
As far as gaming goes, there are only two things on my wish list;-
1) Blizzard [ and NCSoft ] would create PVE servers so folk could just enjoy their games in company.
2) Skull killers [ level unknown ] start losing more and more experience each time after initiating the second and repeated killings of the same grey, the experience going to the grey in compensation for the grief. The killed flag could drop after twenty-four hours and would drop automatically if the grey tried being macho and attached on reviving.
Be safe or die laughing.
so you like pvp,
Y E T Y O U P L A Y W o W.
funny.
To sumarise, no, I don't like really PvP but that is an additional cost I have to bear to play a well designed / constructed game. Many PvPers are rational individuals and play a reasonable game [ chalk up the hit and move on ]. The down side is the number of Gankers and Griefers that PvP attracts. Look on the bright side - if they're giving one grief in an MMORPG they're not out griefing some pensioner or invalid up a dark alley.
I play WoW on a PvP server because of the danger, the challenge. Gankers and griefers are part of the excitement. Their existence fosters teaming-up and camaraderie between guildmates.