PVP:Yes | Distribution:Download,Retail | Retail Price:$19.99 | Pay Type:Subscription
Desktop Client | System Req:
| ESRB:T
World of Warcraft Correspondent - A Look at Wintergrasp
MMORPG.com World of Warcraft Correspondent Robert Duckworth pens this article discussing Wintergrasp, a PvP zone that will be released with the launch of the game's upcoming Wrath of the Lich King expansion.
Lake Wintergrasp is a new PvP zone in the continent of Northrend that will be released with the upcoming expansion pack Wrath of the Lich King (WotLK). Unlike previous attempts by Blizzard to create smaller world PvP objectives, such as the city of Halaa in Nagrand or the Auchindoun Towers, Lake Wintergrasp is going to fill up an entire zone. While the past world PvP objectives created by Blizzard mostly ended in failure, it looks like they learned a good deal from them and will finally get it right with Lake Wintergrasp.
World PvP As We Know It
Many players have had problems with previously implemented world PvP objectives. In the original version of WoW, there was the infamous Sithilus PvP. Players were asked to run around the zone picking up piles of sand and then carrying them to a sand collecting machine which would then give their faction one point, out of two hundred. That's a lot of sand to be carried. The event remained as exciting as it sounds, with players coining a not so original term for it, "lolsand". Not only was the premise behind lolsand boring, but the reward was a mediocre zone wide buff.
Another example of a world PvP objective, this one from The Burning Crusade(TBC), was the neutral city of Halaa located in Nagrand. With TBC Blizzard implemented rewards that were more concrete then just a zone wide buff. Killing the opposing faction would give players Halaa Battle Tokens that they could then exchange for gear or even an epic mount. Unfortunately a couple of problems cropped up. For one thing, players had no need to ever control the city of Halaa except on rare occasions. Players would also not bother to attempt world PvP around Halaa unless they were specifically farming the rewards from doing so. With the large amount of guards protecting the controlling faction as well as the general lack of players in Halaa there wasn't much PvP happening.
Also in TBC were the Auchindoun Towers. Every six hours players were expected to fight over six towers that would give their faction control of the zone. The reward this time were Spirit Shards, a type of token that would drop off of any instance bosses in the zone. The rewards were quickly outdated though and any incentive to actually care about the towers disappeared.
While world PvP continued to exist in the original WoW, even after the world PvP objectives were added, once TBC came world PvP basically died out. Players have come up with a variety of reasons for this, and there are three major ones:
First, there are no longer instance hubs like the infamous Black Rock Mountain. All of the instances in TBC are easily accessible, and all of the quest hubs are very well protected by powerful guards. Flying mounts have also been looked down upon as they marginalize any sense of world PvP. Instead of riding through the lands with the possibility of getting attacked, players soar high above the landscape, immune to everything until they reach their desired destination.
Second, Blizzard never gave world PvP'ers any quality incentive. All of the worthwhile rewards for PvP came from the battle grounds and the new arena system.
What Lake Wintergrasp Brings
Onto Lake Wintergrasp itself. Blizzard released a large number of details on the zone at their World Wide Invitational, but has been pretty silent on the matter since. What is known is that the entire zone plays out like a large battle ground with a specific objective in mind. One faction controls the keep, known as Wintergrasp Keep, and it is their job to prevent the enemy faction from destroying it. In order to assist the defenders, Wintergrasp Keep is surrounded by walls, albeit destructible ones, and four towers. Each tower acts as a stationary siege cannon, letting players bombard any attackers that get to close. Of course it wouldn't be fair if players had to go up against cannons and walls with no help. This brings about another new major feature, the introduction of Siege Vehicles. From Goblin Shredder units to Flying Machines that act as bombers, there's a large variety for players to choose from. Siege Vehicles will most likely be the only way to destroy castle Wintergrasp.
Strategically placed around the map are points of interest for players to fight over. As well as the defensive towers mentioned before there will also be capturable graveyards and even destructible bridges. According to Blizzard, the bridges are meant to be choke points as they make up the only three passable routes across the river running through the middle of the zone, dividing the keep from the attacking forces. Of course with flying mounts players will have no problems getting across the river, but the bridges are vastly important because they are the only way Siege Vehicles can make it to castle Wintergrasp to destroy it. If the defending faction manages to destroy all three bridges the attackers will be unable to maneuver the necessary destructive force of the Siege Vehicles to take down the keep.
Only one faction defends or attacks Lake Wintergrasp at a time. Much like the Auchindoun Towers, there is a timer set so that players have the ability to enjoy their hard earned rewards after taking control of the zone. From the looks of it, the reward system that Blizzard is planning to put into place is the most complete one to date. The reward system actually recycles the past reward styles of both Halaa and the Auchindoun Towers but on a much larger scale. No longer will the rewards be a zone wide buff of some sort, but will actually encompass the entire continent of Northrend. Whichever faction controls Lake Wintergrasp recieves a token from any bosses they kill in Northrend, basically Wintergrasp Spirit Shards. These tokens, just like the Auchindoun Spirit Shards, will be exchangable for PvP items and most likely other kinds of items as well. There will also be another form of token called a Wintergrasp Mark of Honor. This token is essentially the same thing as a Halaa Battle Token gained through killing enemy players within the zone. Of note is that Blizzard plans to incorporate these Wintergrasp Marks of Honor into the traditional honor system of rewards from battle grounds, potentially creating a necessary drive to gather a large number of them. At the moment there is no word on the duration of the reward timer, but due to the nature of the system it will most likely be six hours.
If those rewards weren't incentive enough, Blizzard has claimed that the zone will have a large number of PvE objectives associated with it, that Lake Wintergrasp will be the "Elemental Plateau of Northrend". Whether this means quest objectives, or more likely special resource nodes that can only be found within the zone, players should always be able to find someone to PvP with.
How's It Lookin'?
Lake Wintergrasp is shaping up to be what looks like an incredibly fun zone for PvP'ers. Not only the hopefully constant PvP due to fights over PvE objectives, but also all of the incentives players are given for participating. The reward system looks as it if will benefit everyone on the server from participating, but it could have it's problems as well. Like the Auchindoun Towers Spirit Shards, the tokens from Wintergrasp might eventually be worthless. Especially if the items bought with the tokens are not updated at the same rates as the Arena and Raid tiers. If the rewards are no longer worth the effort then there will be a repeat of past attempts by Blizzard at world PvP. Many players will simply stop going to the zone to PvP and decide to spend their time in places where they can achieve real rewards.
Flying mounts could also continue to be a barrier to world PvP. There is no word if they will be outlawed in the zone. There's a reason why flying mounts are not allowed in the battle grounds, and it seems like that same reason should be used for this world PvP zone as well. Blizzard does say they have a system that will fix realm faction imbalances though. What this system is exactly is not known yet, but there are rumors that the longer you hold control of Wintergrasp the harder it will be to keep it. At this point in time Lake Wintergrasp has not even been tested yet on the beta servers, so how its all going to come together is up in the air. If Blizzard can address all the major issues currently holding back world PvP though, then this new zone will be amazing.
link on the news article isnt working
If Blizzard know they failed misserably with the current World PVP zones, why don't they give them a revamp and make them viable again?
Or has WoW subscribers secretly plummeted and no new players coming to the game anymore and veteran players not bothering rolling alts either.
It's a shame really. As all the old zones were a masterpiece. And the current World PVP zones a complete waste.
Cheers
And the city raids? ... LOL ... if you put more than 40 man in StormWind or IronForge the servers crash!!! How become possible to create a new world PvP area if you put more than 100 player in the same "server map" and it goes down?
Blizzard could test this new area in the beta test server, but in real working server, will they "hold the rocket"?
I don't think so, as in Eve online, where u cant battle while the rate is 60Vs60 or above ... just warp, lag, and get other spaceship.
First they have to fix the infra-structure issue, then TRY to implement this feature( reads BUG, might ).
Just finishing ... this new concept of world pvp will, only, benefit those who have TIME to grind, not an adult oriented MMO.
I think Blizzard still hasn't found a working dynamic for world PvP, so they don't really know how to revamp it. Yes the previous attempts failed miserably but you have to applaud them for their persistence in trying to make it work. It reads like they plan to implement more micro-processes into world pvp as opposed to cut and dry A yields B yields C tactics. At least they are trying to find a format that works for world PvP as opposed to abandoning it all together.
I do agree about the old zones being masterpieces as those are the only zones I really know of. (I quit just before TBC) The world PvP around Black Rock Mountain escalated to a point that alliance/horde treaties had to be forged on the forums so either side could make progress towards defeating nefarion (sp?). I also remember what it was like riding across the badlands dreading the idea of running into X,Y,Z member of the horde. It really made for one helluva gaming experience.
Anyway, I believe Blizzard wouldn't hesitate to revamp world PvP zones if they could find a formula that maintained player interests. I mean if the community can complain about classes and Blizz take the time to review/revamp each class surely they can do the same for a couple of pvp zones. Actually thinking back, cries came up about alterac valley (sp?) battlegrounds and sweeping changes were made to it.
The introduction of BG and the obscene amount of honor points they awarded for them killed world pvp in WOW and there is no hope of bringing it back at this point.
PVP in one zone of the world still doesnt qualify as world pvp.
The only thing I would disagree with is why do PVPer's need to have incentives, they are always bitching there is no world PVP, well if incentives are why there is no world PVP then thats the PVPers fault and not the games. All pvpers bitch they just want to pvp, well then do it, plain and simple.
Here we go again. Blizzard is going to tell us how new and different and amazing this world PVP option will be (it's not world PVP just because it isn't instanced, btw but I digress) and the gaming press and blogs will repeat the line over and over again on how awesome this new and exciting PVP is, then it will be released and exactly no one will care.
Sure riding around on your own Fantasy Motorbike™ across the frozen lake will be fun the first two times you do it, but it will get mighty boring real quick. It's so sad to see Blizzard running scared of Warhammer Online. First the achievement system that was tacked on and now the "amazing world PVP". They might as well just start calling it RVR and make their Orcs say "WAAAAAGH" because WAR is going to eat WotLK alive.
God, don't get me started on the ridiculous motorcycle mount. The stuff they are adding to this game is bordering on the absurd.
nice article and sounds interesting. I like that only one side can be attacking, that means one will have to defend and that could be quite fun. One promising aspect of the new expansion at least, though I hope the only new addition for pvp isn't just that.
WoW has been made to revolve around incentive for so long, I don't think the players know how to have fun anymore. Everything is always about the reward, like it's some kind of contest.
While I can agree with your point the fact still remains anyone can pvp anywhere at anytime even on pve servers by simply flagging yourself so if a pvper has a problem then maybe they should complain to the other pvpers instead of always blaming Blizzard.
WoW was originally a pve game and added pvp on top of that to give something to those who like to pvp but yet they are still never satisfied. If pvp is so important to those that complain then they need to complain to other pvpers then maybe there would be more world pvp.
We don't need incentive.
We WANT meaningful PvP.
We don't want PvP subject to simply killing another player because he's there.
That's like saying that a raider should raid for raiding and they don't need drops to do it.
Why shouldn't I be rewarded for beating a player of equivelent level? It's harder then killing a an NPC that does the exact same thing every time and takes little to no thought or skill. Take away the incentive to raid and I guarantee no one will raid.
Some people need to accept the truth of it. 10+ million subs, who do you think is currently in control of the PvP market? The PvP servers are as full and active as the PvE ones. BG's on Eldre Thalas (pve) is just as active on Smolderthorn (pvp). Beleive it or not, there are possibly more people pvping in wow then not.
If by arial combat Blizzard means that two people on flying mounts will be able to fight each other then the flying mount problem will be fixed for at least the expansion. If they mean that you will just be able to drop bombs in the PvP zone then that's just retarded.
The xpac really needs to come out. I'm bored and want to try the new zone.
Edit: WoW was not built as a solely pve game. It was concieved as an RvR game on the PvP servers and PvP by conscent on the PvE servers. The honor system (you know the pvp tracking system that's been revamped something like 2 or 3 times now) was one of those things that Blizzard failed to get in at launch.
We don't need incentive.
We WANT meaningful PvP.
We don't want PvP subject to simply killing another player because he's there.
That's like saying that a raider should raid for raiding and they don't need drops to do it.
Why shouldn't I be rewarded for beating a player of equivelent level? It's harder then killing a an NPC that does the exact same thing every time and takes little to no thought or skill. Take away the incentive to raid and I guarantee no one will raid.
Some people need to accept the truth of it. 10+ million subs, who do you think is currently in control of the PvP market? The PvP servers are as full and active as the PvE ones. BG's on Eldre Thalas (pve) is just as active on Smolderthorn (pvp). Beleive it or not, there are possibly more people pvping in wow then not.
If by arial combat Blizzard means that two people on flying mounts will be able to fight each other then the flying mount problem will be fixed for at least the expansion. If they mean that you will just be able to drop bombs in the PvP zone then that's just retarded.
The xpac really needs to come out. I'm bored and want to try the new zone.
Edit: WoW was not built as a solely pve game. It was concieved as an RvR game on the PvP servers and PvP by conscent on the PvE servers. The honor system (you know the pvp tracking system that's been revamped something like 2 or 3 times now) was one of those things that Blizzard failed to get in at launch.
apparently you didnt read the original post, the OP constantly said pvp was non existant in areas because of incentive, that is why I commented the way I did.
As far as so many pvping well that is because Blizzards so called incentive program encourages even casual gamers to pvp just to get better gear so bashing Blizzard over pvp is just dumb considering they probably produced more non pvpers into pvpers.
Great article that hit on some key points.
I'd like to add that the Honor per Hour gained in Battlegrounds will always be the better incentive for PvP players. Until they address that issue, World PvP will always take a back seat.
You're missing a few key points in your attempt to dis WoW and play the WAR fanfare.
First, you imply that WoW is trying to implement RvR in order to keep from losing customers to WAR. But you forget that WoW has had RvR from the very start in the form of Horde vs. Alliance. They've had world PvP objectives since well before WAR was being talked about. Just because it wasn't done great with their past efforts doesn't mean that Blizzard is running scared from WAR.
Second, you state that WoW's introduction of achievements is a direct response to WAR's book of lore. What you forget is that LotRO has had achievements since launch. City of Heroes/Villains introduced badges well before that. And everyone loves the Xbox Live ahievements system. So who's copying who? It would be far more accurate to say that Blizzard and Mythic are both copying Turbine, Cryptic and Microsoft than that Blizzard is copying Mythic.
You're missing a few key points in your attempt to dis WoW and play the WAR fanfare.
First, you imply that WoW is trying to implement RvR in order to keep from losing customers to WAR. But you forget that WoW has had RvR from the very start in the form of Horde vs. Alliance. They've had world PvP objectives since well before WAR was being talked about. Just because it wasn't done great with their past efforts doesn't mean that Blizzard is running scared from WAR.
Second, you state that WoW's introduction of achievements is a direct response to WAR's book of lore. What you forget is that LotRO has had achievements since launch. City of Heroes/Villains introduced badges well before that. And everyone loves the Xbox Live ahievements system. So who's copying who? It would be far more accurate to say that Blizzard and Mythic are both copying Turbine, Cryptic and Microsoft than that Blizzard is copying Mythic.
You BOTH don't know what RvR is, so instead of throwing it around as a replacement term for PvP please think first. RvR is equal to WW2. Think of it this way. You had soldiers on the front lines (PvPers) and you had people at home in the factories (PvE). If America didn't have either one of these factors they could never have won. WoW has NEVER had RvR and it will never have it.
You know that WAR is taking the achievement system to the next level, and now WoW feels like it must copy it because the rewards are almost exactly the same. Titles, tabards, non-combat pets. Compared to WAR's rewards of titles, items, trinkets, experience, guild advancement, and realm advancement. Watered down version = WoW.
I have to agree that World PvP soon died down after the introduction of battlegrounds. Especially after they formed battle groups to create more battleground instances running at once.
I've wondered too why they have not reworked current world PvP objectives. Besides fighting over the spirit towers in the Bone Wastes a few times a day and an occassional fight over Halaa there is no World PvP in WoW. No matter what server type you play on.
I think Lake Wintersgrasp is a step in the right direction I don't think it is enough. They need to introduce another World PvP zone in mainland Azeroth.
My major problem with this is the same issue we have with Halaa and the Auchindoun Towers. On our server the Alliance out number the horde by 3 to 1, sure we can attack and take a target, like halaa, but the minute we get it, the call goes out and before we know, we're out numbered 3 to 1, and i'm sure this is going to be the same thing, but on a zone wide scale....
All I have to say is
War is coming Mother Fuckers, and Blizzard trembles at its approach.
I think wintergrasp will be a big epic fail because..
- when everyone gets to 80 will they ever use it? No because they will be doing the big dungeons like Arthas.
- you probally see only like 15 or 16 alli or horde fighting in that area because there bored as shit and got nuthin else to do.
- everyone going be grinding to get to 80 so no time for wintergrasp.
-and people will always be in dalaran and will do pvp BG for there season gear .. because wintergrasp you never earn season gear from it...
More Rep,More Faction,more dungeons,more dailies,another gearfest. I am not buying this expansion because I fear its just more of the same,and I am tired of more of the same. EQ2 is 10 times the game that warcraft is now,Hell SWG is better than wow right now.
the people who think Blizzard is not taking a Notic about WaR and are not scared to loose subs are kidding themselves......
all MMO companies look at all other MMOs as a base to make their game......ALL Companies
So LOTRO and CoX had title systems didn't see WoW put them in when lotro launched and didn't think they were important when they looked at CoX...
but now WAR has them..its not based on the "who is copying who" is based on NOW Blizzard finds titles important enough to add to their game..
WoW will not die with War.........it's north american sub base will take a hit and it will loose tons of subs in Europe......
it will keep its 5 million asian players....
War is comming and Blizzard will feel it........
I dont see what Blizzard are adding to WOW with this update, they need to add it to the fundamentals of the game not an area.
I think this can be answered quite easily, a game where PvP is based on character level rather than player skill / character skill is always going to fail. It does not matter what Blizzard add, WOW is a tried and copied gameplay from the last generation of MMOs. Thankfully these will die soon.
Can anyone really say that combat is good in WoW and EQand all the other clones like vanguard? No. The future is in FPSMMOs and I will be so glad when a proper one comes out (DarkFall). PlanetSide was the first and has been the real only one for so so long. Roma Victor is a nother good attempt but you need patients to get into it.
There have been two hybrids - Age of Conan and Tabla Rasa. Both now FPS but a hybrid that work OK but not really enough player involved. WAR is just a joke and I can not believe people will accept another EQ clone. Seems they do though ...
PvP is the main reason for an MMO when you think of it. Why PvE when there a other players? OK PvE together, that is something different. It adds such a human dimention to things, ie a real person not just thier level or skill.
There is no major game out there apart from Roma Victor (not money unless you read the shite, I have never done so) and in beta DarkFall and perhaps EarthFall that offer this.
This new offering from Blizzard is shite, as the basic game is shite in my opinion. Stop levels, make it player based not time and loot based.
...Warhammer?!... is that you?
oh yeah and another thing...
If they put PvE objectives in a PvP zone i promise there will be mucho whining
warhammer will kill wow in NA and Europe subs but when you look at Asia.. it's never.. wow is huge over there..
warhammer will have all the Europe and NA, but if they release the game in the middle east , it will be big..
because games workshop is a big company.. everyone knows what it is... there powerful like blizzard.. when warhammer online release they know that.. it's warhammer!! time for the WAAAAAGH!!!
because warhammer is basically sold everywere then how wow is sold in the big country's.
you see warhammer in the middle east, russia, Asia, South America, NA, Europe, and bit's of Africa
wow just .. Russia, Asia, NA, Europe
but all those gold farmers, kids, pve, Asians can stick to there wow
but it's time for change warhammer will bring that change to the table!!
warhammer online is like the obama.. and wow is the mcaine ... ones old, ones new.... ones white, ones black..
who wants to see a black president than the same old white president...
but , we have to wait and see at release to judge warhammer online..
if warhammer is a fail.. wow will survive another year...
To be honest I really don't think Warhammer is going to deal as big as blow to WoW, especially here in the States, as some of us is hoping it will.
@ Dreawing : I hope you never post on this website ever again.
I'm a huge WAR fan and have been in beta for well over a year and love every minute of it....
In a way I would love to see WAR take the lead, but if that happened.. which it wont...be prepared for WAR to be the next anti-christ.. WoW gets all kinds of flack from people for the simple fact its popular, people refuse to play it becuase its popular... but it is fun reading the idiotic comments TBH.
Well the mos prominent reason for not revamping the zones, is that they are in soon to be obsolete areas. Around 75% of player activity will most probably take place in Northrend, so why spend time and money revamping zones only a small minority of players actively play in.
Bottom line the new lake wintergrasp is untested.. it does not go live in beta for a another week or two, now as Blizzard unlike every other compnay has no NDA in the Beta (Bless you blizzard) we'll soon get all the info we need.
Well the mos prominent reason for not revamping the zones, is that they are in soon to be obsolete areas. Around 75% of player activity will most probably take place in Northrend, so why spend time and money revamping zones only a small minority of players actively play in.
AV has a revamp in beta, the allaince and horde Bosses dont stay in their base, they leave the base and head towards each other and meet in the middle. Like the old druid\shaman summon. Thats all I know so far.
Mucho whining? - YOU BETTER BELIEVE IT - no one likes being forced into a PVP zone to complete PVE objectives purely to be lured into an area to provide gank fodder for other players - BLIZZARD RETHINK THIS!
if there is one thing that is constant in Blizzard skills,they always fail with PvP/world PvP.Four years ago it sucked,four years after it still sucks and after WOTLK it will still suck.
In 4 or 5 months after WAR has been released,lots and lots will migrate
because at that time WAR players would have unlocked lots of goodies for their realm and cities.The lowest level will benefit from what the highest level are doing and this will make the world alive.
/Holy Sons of Sigmar,for the Empire
Really? That is awesome news. If other summons and epic events were put back in the old days I would be sold for sure.
Ok here is my two cents. As far as meaningful pvp goes i will go play a game like WAR where it is RvsR. Pvp then has a point to it and reason why everyone is killing everyone. In wow it is hard because of the way it is designed to make pvp anything more than a side interest. I must say I play wow and I also enjoy pvp that is why when WAR some out I am playing WAR but I will also play wow. As far as this new area its more like a bigger battle ground to every once and a while go pvp.
From the years I have played wow. pvp goes in cycles. One moment everyone is clogging up the battle fields next moment they are dead. The major incentive in wow is gear or some nice perk. This new area just seems to be just a new addition to wow's style of pvp. I play on PVP server but mostly pve. I go pvp occassionaly when the mood strikes.
For WoW to change anything drastically while they are still have large subscription would not be in their interest. Further more how much more besides adding a new class or two can you change a game that been out there as long as WoW without upsetting the masses or unbalancing the game. WoW is not perfect nor will it ever be. I play it and have fun. If wow put in the new area as an RvsR then everyone would still be saying they are copping WAR and many players who just PVE would be upset. So think this is a good attempt to try to mesh the some world pvp into what is basically a pve game. It all remains to be seen if it will be successful or not. In the mean time I am taking my PVP aggression out on some green skins in WAR.
It's a double edged sword really. If the new pvp zone is popular, most people will play/grind in it & it will simply be a big non-instanced BG. If it isn't popular, most people will play/grind in instanced BG's, the 4 we have now and the new D-Day one, along with the arena, and the "world" pvp zone will be rarely used. Also, as has been stated in a number of posts, if the zone loot rewards are not kept up to date with BG/Arena loot, then this zone will die the day the new, better, BG/Arena loot is released.
Saying it's "world" pvp is alittle over the top when it's only one zone, but having the buff's effect all of Northrend and not just the pvp zone, is a step in the right direction at least.
I'm looking forward to the zone. It should keep people entertained for some time and the siege vehicles sound like fun.
Bleh, sounds like a typically lame Blizzard attempt at PVP, again...here's waiting for WAR (the PvP IS better, so says the BETA!).
It's strange, but the more I read about the "great new features and regions of WotLK", the less interested I am in coming back to WoW.
This article contains nothing that would cause me to want to renew my subscription and/or purchase the expansion when WotLK is released. Nothing.
I think it's funny how many people are praying for the downfall of WoW. It's a computer game FFS calm down people. It's not like Blizzard is doing anything wrong by appealing to the masses. If people want to play it, and it's making MMO's more popular, I'm all for it.
Warhammer won't kill WoW, no way in hell. The game is a cultural phenomenon that is enjoyed by MILLIONS of people, not just gamers. WAR will appeal to gamers who read gaming forums and buy gaming magazines, but it won't even reach many WoW and won't make a significant dent in the subscriber base.
This is so true. Just like when AoC hit, World of Warcraft went belly....oh wait.
Nevermind.
People that dislike WoW expect a game they like to draw off millions of players from WoW. Does that make sense to anyone? There is obviously something there that draws them to the game. YOUR ideal game would not be theirs. If you are pumped about WAR, you can bet that those people that differ from you are equally un-pumped.
The only players that WoW will lose to WAR are players that play WoW for lack of other socail outlet. When WAR hits, they'll leave to check it out. I'm betting that just like AOC, the majority will come crawling back before their first paid month is up. It happened with VSoH and AoC. Hell, a lot thought Hellgate: London would put a dent in WoW subs. LOL.
Some children never learn.
I do not care what game is going to kill what game. WOW was a great game for me while I played it and Blizzard did alot of things right.
They did PVP wrong from the start. Some posters here are being chastised for dissing WOW or claiming a new game will kill WOW and to be honest it will not. I no longer play WOW and I am looking into Warhammer and Aion.
PVP in WOW was flawed from the start when high level players were basically camping low level spots and killing low level players and low level quest mobs. The players that justified this action as war, it was nothing more then ganking in my book. PVP is not killing players without any penalty 20 levels lower then you.
Thus came the honor system and the so called hardcore PVP folks cried foul. The forums were on fire as the ganking bunch said it kill world PVP. But, something had to be done so everyone could enjoy the game even on the pvp servers. Take a look at Conan right now they are revamping the pvp ruleset as the same thing is going on and they are loosing customers in droves. You cannot have players running rampant killing the new players!
IMHO there needs to be a penalty for killing lower level players unless you are defending yourself. But alot of so called PVP players would not even think of pvping if they dropped an item or got penalized for murder. So Blizzard's solution is instances and it is one of the reason's I left the game.
I hope Warhammer or Aion has some real pvp where you are penalized for not pvping with players close to your level. I hope we can actually affect the terrain and control some real estate and have to defend it all the time from the enemy and not just schedules on time to fight. I hope you can make some real items that will help with seigecraft and it costs a faction some real hard cash to do it. I hope we get some real benefits and not some more stupid purple pixels to add to our character.
How many poster's here would really participate in PVP if they lost an item, got looted for cash, or got tagged a murderer for killing low level players? Not to many most likely. But that is real PVP.
looks decent too bad its only one pvp zone.
There problem is that players, whether on a PvP or PvE server do not all have the same mindset, and this is in most part due to the fact that players have a wide choice of what they want to do. Everyone in the game participates in ways that will benefits themselves. Truly, Blizzard is trying to create a better PvP situation for the multitudes of people of out there that want it, but I do not believe that their attempts will reach a satisfying goal for the hardcore PvP crowd. Their PvE content on the other hand has been nothing short of the best in any MMO that has been created; Blizzard definitely has created a good system for those gamers.
I myself am what I would call a hardcore PvP oriented person and from hearing comments from other players in WoW like, “If you do not like the game then do not play it,” it frustrates me because some players are playing a game that satisfies what they enjoy in playing an MMO. I on the other hand, in WoW, do not get the full rewarding feel that these players get. And about the comment that I get from some players, no other game currently on the market compares to WoW in its character balance and playability. After playing many betas and other games, there just is not a game that feels and plays like WoW’s system. Their look and feel is unquestionably what players want in a MMO but they just lack the content and ideas for PvP that would gratify players like myself.
Back to my original thought. Blizzard is good at what they do, and I think if they want to score a game that will give the PvP crowd what they want, they will have to try something else; and I have two thoughts. Either Blizzard needs to create a game that puts the PvP crowd together, meaning a game that encompasses what the PvPer’s want, which is basically an environment that, if not completely then mostly, centers itself on PvP, or they need keep trying idea in WoW, then an idea might ultimately lead them to a good design. The second idea, I think, will push them into a situation where if they truthfully want to make a game to satisfy these players they are going to need to switch to the first idea. Props to Blizzard for continually trying, but the final idea is that they will not be able to fully please their entire crowd with WoW. There is simply too much that diversified gamers want, and trying to incorporate all of these aspects into one game, I think, is basically implausible.
world pvp has always been a bit lacking in warcraft . when it did happen on a large scale in places like southshore it used to be player led rather than company led . also this resulted in massive amounts of lag at times . even though i intend to return at sometime to level up my two characters to 80 because i still enjoy the game weather i stay or not really depends on what warhammers like . i dont have time to play two games per month and as a pvp player i think warhammer might offer more options .
The arenas screwed WoW. Blizzard started to realize it on a small scale when trying to introduce world objectives. Now it's just too late. I stopped playing actively about a year ago now. Having played from day one and seeing what actually was fun PvP (inluding the battlegrounds even, they were actually good. They didn't screw things up.) obliterated due to arenas.
If you take all professions in consideration, all classes were actually on a good way of getting balanced in world PvP. Then what happened. Arenas came and in them you coulnd't use SQUAT. All things certain classes had used before to keep them competitive were now forbidden. Naturally Blizzard then started to try balancing things based on the arenas.
I could even agree to a certain extent on the arenas if they dind't mess with what people could use in there. This equal for all is just bullsh*t. You want to be competivite? Well then go grind 30minutes for those herbs for those potions, or go mine for those grenades.. or whatever. THAT is proper PvP.
Furthermore, on the note of battlegrounds; What made them actually fun was that they were quite close to world pvp. You could use any things you wanted. It was a good complement.
Don't get me started on this resilience crap either.
No, WoW got its chance and for the PvP part it's now dead. WoW is not an e-sport. Leave that to Quake, CS, Warcraft III and what not.
PvP in WoW was once fun and you could use all tricks up your sleeve. Now it's what, a bunch of rating numbers (which people cheat anyway), retarded resilience (hey, even if you kill all the mobs in the game you shouldn't stand a chance against someone who usually spent less time getting gear with resilience) and arenas stripped of everything that made PvP fun.
I am not propagating any other game. I probably won't even try WAR. WotLK contains a lot of promises, but at the end of that ladder to 80 you know it will be just more of the same.
I will not be going back to WoW anytime in the future after my return on the first expansion welfare epic's with it cheapstake team-pvp BG's.
Once upon a time WoW used to be steamless two world with instances, but now you cannot fly mounts in original contents.
What next?, not looking forward to blizzard game.
I would'nt say PvP is better since there is no PvP but RvR as players consent in linear mode.
PVE will be something new for the bored and fed up WoW fans and I cannot say about WAR much since NDA.
Still far better than Lotr and AoC put together.
I agree,
Look at Blizzard finally paying attention to PvP! And it only took how many years?
I wonder how many of the old PvE-raiders working there had to be drugged and thrown into closets before Blizzard could finally focus their attention on this sorely neglected part of WoW. A part that held such promise back before the release.
I think why pvp was so lovly in BRM or most of that zone to be exact, is that you knew you just annoyed a person, she/he wanted to get into the instance and you just stopped them, the gy is on the other side of the map. Now, didnt that gave you a smile on your face or what :p tokens, honor, rewards... its nothing compared to the feeling of knowing you just stopped another person from doing what they want to do, yes, its evil, but hell, ITS FUN!
I say, make hubs like the ones in BRM for all of the major instances in WotlK and then voila :p you will have a massacre.
One zone I do like about pvp is the Underbog, you dont really know what you will face when diving down, either you will face 5+ angry allys or 5+ angry horde, depending on your faction, its going to be a very hectic time to get into that instance.